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Old 11-09-2021, 04:16 AM   #326
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idk about "shockingly bad". The soundtrack's unfinished on the cartridge stuff, but otherwise it's exactly what it says on the tin: DP but modern.
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Old 11-09-2021, 11:44 AM   #327
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"but modern" is just a graphical update, and to be perfectly honest, BDSP's graphics are not as good as Far Cry 6.

Well I guess there's also more hand-holding but let's face it, nobody players single player for the challenge anymore. Showdown's where it's at!
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:25 PM   #328
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It's basically graphics and a couple QoLs, but it's a remake. What did people expect? And lbr I don't think Nintendo's ever churned out a game with the intent of making it graphically amazing. The closest they got was BotW which aged like fish and was only considered great bc it was on a handheld. They marketed it as DP but on Switch and that's basically what they've delivered. It's likely to be as average as all the other remakes, except slightly better bc unlike FRLG, HGSS and ORAS, BDSP's got a slightly less terrible base game to work with.
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:51 PM   #329
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It's basically graphics and a couple QoLs, but it's a remake. What did people expect?
Reskin, not remake. A remake implies they actually added or significantly altered content. The QOL stuff is so insignificant I can't even call it content, and I'm so over complaining about "difficulty".

For me personally meta changes are the bare minimum expectation. Even LGPE did this with the mechanical change to Teleport and debut of Melmetal. BDSP is just a reskin of the Gen IV games, and a mediocre reskin at that.

I think the average fan was expecting ORAS. New designs, an updated storyline, new postgame content and gimmicks for the legends. Basically, the stuff they're getting in Masters and Arceus. There's none of that in BDSP, and the game is being released unfinished. WTF.

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And lbr I don't think Nintendo's ever churned out a game with the intent of making it graphically amazing. The closest they got was BotW which aged like fish and was only considered great bc it was on a handheld. They marketed it as DP but on Switch and that's basically what they've delivered. It's likely to be as average as all the other remakes, except slightly better bc unlike FRLG, HGSS and ORAS, BDSP's got a slightly less terrible base game to work with.
The T-Rex in Galaxy looks great!

I will admit that "anime" games have a ceiling on how good they can look anyway, but I look at the overworld with the chibi sprites and immediately see it as a downgrade from the full size sprites that USUM that had. One can tell from XY that GameFreak always wanted full-size overworld sprites and had to fall back to sprites as a time constrainit.

But where's the time constraint with BDSP. This game has been expected since ORAS and there's almost no changes. How can it be released unfinished?
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Old 11-09-2021, 01:56 PM   #330
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Well for one, it's not Gamefreak. It's in the hands of a different company, one who's likely being held to TPC's tyrannical deadlines, and this is their first real game they've done alone. Plus, the company that made it also was in charge of developing Home, which was likely its own ordeal in the lead up. Between that and the world situation for the last couple of years, it's understandable that they couldn't quite keep to the shipping deadlines TPC set.

As for expecting another ORAS... ORAS went down like a turd in the punch bowl, so idk on that one. The "updated storyline" was basically "we forced Megas in" and setting up for the rather dreary world tour of cutscenes that was the Delta Episode. The modern equivalent would be having them force in Dynamax somewhere, and given that Dynamax's reception was... tepid at best, I can see why they opted to not force in further gimmicks. The lack of a Platinum episode postgame is annoying but given the Delta Episode being as dull as it was, not to mention the writing for it being terrible even for a Pokemon game... I think we might be better off without.

Long story short, people set themselves up for BDSP to reinvent everything and they're disappointed when it's exactly what it says on the tin: Basically an anniversary reprint of DP. Hell, iirc the JP advertising for it basically calls it that.
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Old 11-09-2021, 02:03 PM   #331
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It is what it says on the tin, the problem is that the tin's promise fucking sucks.
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Old 11-09-2021, 02:10 PM   #332
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At the very least, the game was built in Unity which means in six months someone will create a ROMhack of it that is massively better than the original
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Old 11-09-2021, 04:07 PM   #333
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Well for one, it's not Gamefreak. It's in the hands of a different company, one who's likely being held to TPC's tyrannical deadlines, and this is their first real game they've done alone. Plus, the company that made it also was in charge of developing Home, which was likely its own ordeal in the lead up. Between that and the world situation for the last couple of years, it's understandable that they couldn't quite keep to the shipping deadlines TPC set.
This is the first time I've heard of this. What's the company's name? TBH, that actually erases a lot of my complaints, since that's an actual excuse. One would have to question why GF isn't handing off Gen IV to its best team given its veneration in the eyes of fans, but...eh.

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As for expecting another ORAS... ORAS went down like a turd in the punch bowl, so idk on that one. The "updated storyline" was basically "we forced Megas in" and setting up for the rather dreary world tour of cutscenes that was the Delta Episode. The modern equivalent would be having them force in Dynamax somewhere, and given that Dynamax's reception was... tepid at best, I can see why they opted to not force in further gimmicks. The lack of a Platinum episode postgame is annoying but given the Delta Episode being as dull as it was, not to mention the writing for it being terrible even for a Pokemon game... I think we might be better off without.
ORAS used to be the lowest point for remakes and I understand that sentiment, cause I hated it. Heck, as despised as dynamax is I would still like to see Gmax forms for the Gen IV legends as it won't have any impact on the franchise beyond these games. Also, the Gen IV legends need some serious buffs since they're pretty bland and bad now.

Delta Episode is pretty hit or miss with people. I think the lore, crazy yandere and 'epic' finale is what many remember most fondly out of ORAS. Delta Episode was the Gen III/VI rep in the Generations shorts.

I don't know how GF gauges feedback but it seems they do listen to it and respond in the worst way possible.

Hate cross-evos? You'll never see them again, unless they're regional forms!
Hate Z-Moves and Megas? They're gone!
Love Ultra Necrozma and Pokemon XYZ's ending? We'll combine them in Sword/Shield, but more epic with higher base stats than ever!

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Long story short, people set themselves up for BDSP to reinvent everything and they're disappointed when it's exactly what it says on the tin: Basically an anniversary reprint of DP. Hell, iirc the JP advertising for it basically calls it that.
I think that's pretty unfair. Even re-releases of old movies on DVD have bonus content to get people to buy the same copy again. I don't know why anyone would get BDSP when they could just run DP and especially Platinum on an emulator.
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Old 11-09-2021, 05:31 PM   #334
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I think that people will always find a way to complain about every new Pokemon game that comes out. That said I can’t say I’m thrilled with what I’ve seen so far from BDSP. Definitely not buying it. But I think at the end of the day it’s still a Pokemon game so it’s going to be fine and will still sell pretty well. So like eh. Whatever.
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Old 11-09-2021, 05:48 PM   #335
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This is the first time I've heard of this. What's the company's name? TBH, that actually erases a lot of my complaints, since that's an actual excuse. One would have to question why GF isn't handing off Gen IV to its best team given its veneration in the eyes of fans, but...eh.
The company is ILCA, the same ones who did Pokemon HOME. This is their first full solo game afaik, so far it's just been HOME and bits and pieces for other games. Combine a new company doing their first full game with TPC's famously draconic deadlines, and that's a recipe for an unfinished-at-shipping game.

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ORAS used to be the lowest point for remakes and I understand that sentiment, cause I hated it. Heck, as despised as dynamax is I would still like to see Gmax forms for the Gen IV legends as it won't have any impact on the franchise beyond these games. Also, the Gen IV legends need some serious buffs since they're pretty bland and bad now.

Delta Episode is pretty hit or miss with people. I think the lore, crazy yandere and 'epic' finale is what many remember most fondly out of ORAS. Delta Episode was the Gen III/VI rep in the Generations shorts.

I don't know how GF gauges feedback but it seems they do listen to it and respond in the worst way possible.

Hate cross-evos? You'll never see them again, unless they're regional forms!
Hate Z-Moves and Megas? They're gone!
Love Ultra Necrozma and Pokemon XYZ's ending? We'll combine them in Sword/Shield, but more epic with higher base stats than ever!
tbh I agree the legends needed buffs, but I'm kinda glad Dynamax isn't back.

Delta Episode is divisive as hell barring the ending, which pretty much everyone agrees is the high point of the game. And yeah, their feedback stuff is skewed, but I don't think it takes much to realise that Dynamax was not popular, and I feel like they'd have gotten even more backlash if they'd forced Dynamax into BDSP. Remember when people screamed that ORAS was making it too easy for handing you a mega [email protected]?

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I think that's pretty unfair. Even re-releases of old movies on DVD have bonus content to get people to buy the same copy again. I don't know why anyone would get BDSP when they could just run DP and especially Platinum on an emulator.
Emulation isn't always an option, and it's especially an awkward option for portability. I'm not entirely sure if they've got DS emulation onto mobiles yet without it utterly mullering the battery life. ...Though second-hand is probably even more of a bitch given the cost of second-hand pokemon games these days. As for bonus content... There is some? Kinda? There's not much but there's some.
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:06 AM   #336
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But I think at the end of the day it’s still a Pokemon game so it’s going to be fine and will still sell pretty well. So like eh. Whatever.
This is my main takeaway here, and I mostly agree with Dopple. I was really expecting like... some new stuff like ORAS. I don't really mind the graphics but apparently the music is pretty poor and in one leaked video it took a full 60 seconds for ONE battle round to complete.

Since Pokemon just prints money, people stopped giving a shit about quality generations ago.
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:14 AM   #337
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The crap music was placeholder MIDIs bc the soundtrack wasn't finished in time, it's been fixed in the prerelease patch, along with adding in online functions, the postgame, and the opening and ending cutscenes, plus a few other issues. Quality's been declining (and in more than just Pokemon, it's kind of an industry-wide epidemic), but this time there's an actual understandable reason for it: TPC outsourced to a company on their first full game. No wonder they struggled to get it finished for the shipping date, especially with TPC's habit of setting immovable deadlines. It's what butchered SwSh, and it's had its knock-on here.
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:04 AM   #338
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The crap music was placeholder MIDIs bc the soundtrack wasn't finished in time, it's been fixed in the prerelease patch, along with adding in online functions, the postgame, and the opening and ending cutscenes, plus a few other issues. Quality's been declining (and in more than just Pokemon, it's kind of an industry-wide epidemic), but this time there's an actual understandable reason for it: TPC outsourced to a company on their first full game. No wonder they struggled to get it finished for the shipping date, especially with TPC's habit of setting immovable deadlines. It's what butchered SwSh, and it's had its knock-on here.
If that's been fixed that's pretty nice then, I haven't looked at any of the news since the original leaks were pretty depressing. And I have to agree, Nintendo is moving more towards a "hard deadline" company instead of the old fashioned "its done when its done" mindset. Just look at stuff like Animal Crossing, etc. AC did come out at the perfect time, which helped a lot, but it was far from a complete game at launch.
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:22 AM   #339
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I think the main thing is less Nintendo and more just the industry as a whole, but TPC is a bitch for it, because the games are basically a small part of their merchandise machine and the games are made to fit into that, rather than holding the merchandise stuff for when the game is ready. I think TPC would absolutely straight up release a non-functional game before they delayed a game. SwSh was half-done but it was at least functional.
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Old 11-11-2021, 11:42 AM   #340
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And I have to agree, Nintendo is moving more towards a "hard deadline" company instead of the old fashioned "its done when its done" mindset. Just look at stuff like Animal Crossing, etc. AC did come out at the perfect time, which helped a lot, but it was far from a complete game at launch.
It's just so strange to me that they seem to be the Nintendo of old with "it's done when it's done" when it comes to something like Metroid Prime 4, or even something like BotW since that had super long delays before coming out, but on stuff like Pokemon you're right that this seems like a hard deadline kind of thing. Who knows
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Old 11-11-2021, 11:58 AM   #341
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It's probably because Pokemon is exclusively aimed at children and children aren't buying the games, parents are. So even if children find the games infantile, there's no way for them to levy those complaints against Nintendo or Game Freak. And being Japanese-made, there's no way for any international audience to hold Game Freak/Nintendo accountable outside of bashing them on social media (which is how it's happening atm).

It's an evil genius plot of TPCi to avoid any way of the developers or publisher being held accountable for cost cutting. They make out like bandits every winter and laugh all the way to the bank. You see that to a lesser extent with Japanese publishers like Kadokawa and Shueisha, who get a huge chunk of revenue from overseas interest but only care about domestic sales when it comes to content decisions. And you see none of that with American-based developers. Activision-Blizzard could be held accountable because it's within US shores.
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Old 11-11-2021, 12:10 PM   #342
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Yeah I think the vast majority of the issues so far with BDSP all stem from TPC. The only actually questionable decisions for the game are the exp all while retaining the DP levels, and the non-reusable TMs, but honestly I don't hugely mind the latter, and the former is going to need actually testing. Given how SwSh went (People doomsaying, the leakers being at lv70+ when they got to the champion) versus how it actually was in game (struggling to hit level 60s for the champion)... I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Old 11-11-2021, 12:20 PM   #343
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It sounds like amie is always-on (or at least, auto enabled if Pokemon follow) and so is the EXP share. I've hated both of these features for a while, because it removes gameplay and replaces it with interactive cutscenes. If you can't actually lose, or you have to go out of your way to lose, it isn't really a game. In the same way that first-person Marvel movies aren't movies, they're theme park rides.

That isn't a technical or TPCi issue though, it's a problem with the game direction. And I think safety rails are the biggest tell that these games aren't pay no mind to adolescents, let alone adults.
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Old 11-11-2021, 01:40 PM   #344
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I am actually of the pretty firm belief that it's not Nintendo who is really at fault here, but rather the onus is probably on Gamefreak. TPC is not a wholly independent entity from Gamefreak and isn't just a mouth piece for Nintendo either. Gamefreak probably could manage a delay if they wanted to, but they know they never have to. The games sell like hot cakes and they make their money, and the games are just a relatively small part of the Pokemon brand engine that makes money.

Nintendo basically doesn't treat any other of its properties like this, which is why I'm fairly convinced its not Nintendo at all who is part of this decision making, and more importantly, I think Nintendo is too fussy about its brand image like it always has been to make these shots, especially as Pokemon has come under more and more criticism for the harsh deadlines and the sub-par quality.

(Sort of related but New Horizons was a completed game that just didn't have the amount of content that was typical, but the game was completed, functional, and a lot of people enjoyed it. That game also literally got a delay, even if I think that was just a PR stunt.)
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Old 11-12-2021, 05:57 AM   #345
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It sounds like amie is always-on (or at least, auto enabled if Pokemon follow) and so is the EXP share. I've hated both of these features for a while, because it removes gameplay and replaces it with interactive cutscenes. If you can't actually lose, or you have to go out of your way to lose, it isn't really a game. In the same way that first-person Marvel movies aren't movies, they're theme park rides.

That isn't a technical or TPCi issue though, it's a problem with the game direction. And I think safety rails are the biggest tell that these games aren't pay no mind to adolescents, let alone adults.
The EXP All isn't that bad, because they're using a decent exp system that stops rampant overlevelling somewhat, and it cuts out what is undeniably the absolute worst part of any RPG: grinding. SwSh has it and unless you go ham with fights and catches, you struggle to be overlevelled. The affection thing, I can see why they've kept it but I agree it's dumb.
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