Discussion on Abilities

[Prof.Enigma]

Hi, Me again.

This time I am bringing this out for all of you to get your opinions on and hopefully have implemented soon.
There has been talk about Ability Capsules and or Patches going off/on etc, and nothing really has been done about it or really been kept up in the air for long.

I thought up of this a bit while scrolling through my profile and seeing my Gengar's ability which is stuck as Cursed Body because that's what it was declared at from the trade I obtained it from. Personally, Levitate is cooler and is an ability that fits more with my gengar's personality and all that.
As of right now, there is no other way to reset this ability outside of throwing it into the reset documentation thread.

So, to change this, How does the community feel about Ability Patches or Capsules ( they are probably going to be the same thing when implemented since the only difference is that in the official games the capsules rotate between non-hidden abilities if they have them and in fan-made games, they cycle through all the abilities they have when used ).

Implementing could go two ways here, we could either ( with appointed shop owners' approval's of course beforehand ) have them be purchasable in shops or make it a Boutique related service.

As for limiting, if no one's opposed to it I see no real reason to limit these as like, those who would be changing their Pokemons ability ( like me ) wouldn't be doing this every single time before a raid or zone adventure to better suit the situation, as I feel most everyone who'd want to are probably going to change it to their preferred ability and not really look back on it, and if all of a sudden they suddenly feel like later on down the line that may be having then there's probably a pretty good reason as to why they'd want to change it other than " I want to have X ability to better fit this pokemon in X raid"

[Missingno. Master]

I, as I have made clear on multiple occasions in the past, am very much in favor of being able to change a Pokémon's Ability without having to involve the reset thread.

As for Ability Capsules vs. Ability Patches... I have something of an idea.

Ability Capsule: Buyable in the Department Store, available in zones- any way you slice it, easy enough to get your hands on. You use it the same as you'd use a TM or something, to change your Pokémon's Ability from what it currently has to any other one it can possibly have.

Ability Patch: Not buyable. Rare zone reward. Allows you to do one of the following;

1. Change your Pokémon's Ability to one that can be had, not by itself, but by something else in its evolution family, like giving Misty Surge to a Normal Form Weezing, Flash Fire to a Leafeon, or Rock Head to a Salamence.
2. Remove the Pokémon's Ability entirely- looking at you, Archeops.
3. Propose an idea for a new Ability for the Pokémon you use it on, and it'd have to probably be approved by the mods or something, but once approved, any Pokémon of that species can have that Ability in FB.

I feel this could be another step towards making our Pokémon all the more customizable. Obviously, altering Abilities beyond what's normally possible would be kind of a big step, which is why I feel like it should be more of a reward for RPing.

Now, obviously, my Ability Patch idea, probably not a huge priority at the moment, and that's OK- if we decide we're gonna roll with my idea, we can at least implement Ability Capsules now and cross the Ability Patch bridge when it's more convenient.

[SpinyShell]

If we do implement a way to change Abilities--which I wholeheartedly support--I think that it should allow players to switch between both standard and hidden abilities. For example, if we decide to make Ability Capsules available, then I think that they should allow the player to select any possible Ability the Pokémon can have rather than just restricting it to its two standard Abilities.

In terms of obtainability and restrictions, I think it would be okay if Abilities Capsules were relatively accessible: purchasable in the Department Store with no restrictions on use, i.e. you can change Abilities as many times as you like. However, if there does appear to be widespread abuse then maybe we can implement a cool down, e.g. you have to wait seven days after feeding a Pokémon an Ability Capsule. I don't really like the idea of making Ability Capsules a one-time only thing due to how restrictive it is.

[Prof.Enigma]

Originally Posted by Missingno. Master

I, as I have made clear on multiple occasions in the past, am very much in favor of being able to change a Pokémon's Ability without having to involve the reset thread.

As for Ability Capsules vs. Ability Patches... I have something of an idea.

Ability Capsule: Buyable in the Department Store, available in zones- any way you slice it, easy enough to get your hands on. You use it the same as you'd use a TM or something, to change your Pokémon's Ability from what it currently has to any other one it can possibly have.

Ability Patch: Not buyable. Rare zone reward. Allows you to do one of the following;

1. Change your Pokémon's Ability to one that can be had, not by itself, but by something else in its evolution family, like giving Misty Surge to a Normal Form Weezing, Flash Fire to a Leafeon, or Rock Head to a Salamence.
2. Remove the Pokémon's Ability entirely- looking at you, Archeops.
3. Propose an idea for a new Ability for the Pokémon you use it on, and it'd have to probably be approved by the mods or something, but once approved, any Pokémon of that species can have that Ability in FB.

I feel this could be another step towards making our Pokémon all the more customizable. Obviously, altering Abilities beyond what's normally possible would be kind of a big step, which is why I feel like it should be more of a reward for RPing.

Now, obviously, my Ability Patch idea, probably not a huge priority at the moment, and that's OK- if we decide we're gonna roll with my idea, we can at least implement Ability Capsules now and cross the Ability Patch bridge when it's more convenient.

I haven't thought of this, and... I wouldn't be opposed to changing a Pokémons ability to that of one that's in the family line ( IE Stance Change on honedge allowing it to switch between sheathed and blade form while protecting etc ) ( I do wanna say that should we allow this there will probably have to be some scrutiny on the Eevee line as Volt Absorb would completely negate Vaporeon's Electric weakness and like you demonstrated, Leafeon's Fire weakness. That's something we'd have to think about and discuss a lot, but I like the concept and Idea )


I am perfectly fine with Ability Capsules being purchasable and being about anywhere and Ability patches being a harder to earn thing SHOULD we allow for the possibility of allowing a pokemon to have a different ability ( such as an ability one of its line members gets but not it, and implementing a new possible ability that's custom to the trainer/pokemon) but again we would have to discuss that further.


Edit: I also agree with Spiny that should people start to abuse the capability there should be cooldowns and the like.

[biggggg5]

I also think that having the ability capsule be purchasable and able to get carried around could potentially lead to abuse, but the option should be there outside of the reset thread. I would propose a Shop with a cooldown like the adoption center, a Pokémon can only have their ability changed once a month or so. It would also allow to differentiate hanging between Ability and Hidden ability with regular being say $1000 and hidden ability being $1500.

However I may be a bit of a buzzkill and think that MM’s Ability patch proposal seems a bit strong and a bit too homebrewey. I do enjoy making every Pokémon unique and viable for sure, but this feels almost too far for lack of a better term. This feels on par with what someone might propose for a Staff Updater 300 custom item reward and I don’t know if that’s something that should be widely distributed, even as a zone reward. However I might suggest taking each of those three effects and look at them each as individual items and that might be less overpowered feeling.

[myahoo]

Honestly, I assumed whatever Ability-changing item we decided upon would allow you to pick any of a Pokemon's possible Abilities as a default, since we let people declare any of the possible Abilities in the first place.

Moving on to availability, I would also support Ability Capsules being purchasable at the Department Store with no limits on use, maybe at $1000 per? And if it turns out that it's being abused, then we can revisit availability?

[Lil'twick]

100% on board with the Ability Capsule. 1k a pop sounds perfectly fine.

As for the patch, I like the idea. To me Fizzy is super free form and customizable, and like thr ability someone can truly make a Pokemon their own. Honestly, I don't see it as too homebrewy and already fits into line with what we have. 300 FC rewards are cool and were originally meant to be publically available when Emi designed the system, so I don't see the issue with the patch.

[lilboocorsola]

Popping in to say I'm all for Ability Capsules. $1000 seems reasonable, with some kind of cooldown in between. (Like myahoo said I don't think there needs to be a price increase for Hidden Abilities since they became allowable upon initial declaration.)

MM's idea is interesting, though one that will likely require further scrutiny. I think it is the sort of thing that should be reserved as a high tier Staff Reward, and if given out in Zones then only in very limited quantities. I do kinda agree with big that having all three options in one seems a bit OP; or rather, creating a custom Ability by itself should be separated out into its own category through some other means that's even rarer to come by. Perhaps as some kind of contest prize, considering the resemblance to Fizzy forms.

[Sneaze]

MM's idea is... interesting. While I do feel point one is workable in some capacity, it does have some major issues and I would want it limited to only abilities on the same evolution branch. So no Vaporeon with Flareon abilities but Koffing with Alolan Weezing is fine (so long as it either becomes an A Weezing or changes back when becoming a K Weezing). Anything beyond that, as well as his points 2 and 3, falls a bit too squarely into Create A Pokemon in my mind, at least in and of this moment.

[Prof.Enigma]

So far we haven't had anything against having Ability Capsules purchasable and I believe that 1k is reasonable for it along with it being one-time use.
Ability Patches here are going to indeed be worked upon a bit more but definitely work as a Custom Item for hitting an FC tier.

MM's points here, 1 and 2 could probably be feasible as the ability patch's function. After some thought upon it point 3 does cross over into creating a Pokémon territory so this can be something brought up once again in a FF event.

TLDR; Seems like everyone's fine with Ability Capsules being sold and the like but Patches will probably be needing to be worked on. SO. Are people fine with Ability Capsules being implemented soon ( Being sold at about 1k At either the Department Store or Boutique (or both) )?

I would love to get this discussion wrapped up and moved on by this coming Wednesday ( May 12 )

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Prof.Enigma

So far we haven't had anything against having Ability Capsules purchasable and I believe that 1k is reasonable for it along with it being one-time use.

I don't think there was anyone in favor of it being a one-time use? I thought the consensus was there should just be a cooldown between changing Abilities? (Or are you saying the item itself can only be used once and if you want to change again you have to purchase another?)

[myahoo]

Originally Posted by lilboocorsola

I don't think there was anyone in favor of it being a one-time use? I thought the consensus was there should just be a cooldown between changing Abilities? (Or are you saying the item itself can only be used once and if you want to change again you have to purchase another?)

I was working under the assumption that Ability Capsules were a one-time use consumable myself...

Er, as in, you could only use them each one, but you could buy multiples.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by myahoo

I was working under the assumption that Ability Capsules were a one-time use consumable myself...

Er, as in, you could only use them each one, but you could buy multiples.

Right, I just want to confirm that's the meaning being applied here. Figure that's the case, but my initial reading got me a bit confused. ^^;

[Slash]

I just want to weigh in that I fully support the idea o an Ability Capsule being sold in the Dept Store for something like $500-1000. I don't really think cooldowns or limits are needed. I doubt we'd see much if any abuse of them, and if there is, it can be addressed then.

As far as Ability Patches to access abilities of other Pokemon in the line, I'm not sure on that. On the one side, making Pokemon like Slaking not have to deal with Truant would be nice since the ability is such a massive nerf to it, but branching evolutions can make things difficult, mostly looking at the Eevee line. Giving the Hitons all the ability to get Reckless, Intimidate, or Inner Focus is fine to me, but something like Volt Absorb on Vaporeon seems a bit much.

While that subject is relevant, though, I'd like to present another idea for Ability Patches, not necessarily as an alternative, but as something to also consider. And that is Mega abilities. I just think it would be cool if you didn't have to Mega to have a Mega Launcher Blastoise, a Pixilate Altaria, or a Solar Power Houndoom. Just a thought, though, really, since we're discussing abilities in general.

[Prof.Enigma]

Originally Posted by lilboocorsola

I don't think there was anyone in favor of it being a one-time use? I thought the consensus was there should just be a cooldown between changing Abilities? (Or are you saying the item itself can only be used once and if you want to change again you have to purchase another?)

I'd say the item itself could be used once and if you want to change it again you'd need to purchase another. My reasoning being that Capsules themselves are literally small pills that cause the change between the abilities after being swallowed and it's rather weird to... use it again.

However, we could make it a multi use item ( I.E its a supply of pills that you can use when you please to change an ability ) Again I don't see much abuse happening with capsules and don't think we need to really restrict them too much unless abuse happens and then if so we can review this subject once more.

Originally Posted by Slash

While that subject is relevant, though, I'd like to present another idea for Ability Patches, not necessarily as an alternative, but as something to also consider. And that is Mega abilities. I just think it would be cool if you didn't have to Mega to have a Mega Launcher Blastoise, a Pixilate Altaria, or a Solar Power Houndoom. Just a thought, though, really, since we're discussing abilities in general.

Interesting proposal, I for one wouldn't be against such a patch. I feel that this might lean to a custom item ordeal buuuuutttt, it could work as its own thing since we've made it you can pick and choose your ability and the Capsule would allow for you to Rechoose an ability

[Ironthunder]

I say we stick the Capsules to live, there's few issues with that. As for Patches... Entire evo line is fine but we might want to consider a clause for Eevee line specifically given how much of an oddity it is. wrt Slash's suggestion, I wouldn't be against including the Mega's ability as "part of the evo line".

[Lil'twick]

I think patches need more discussion but Capsules can be implemented right now.

1x Ability Capsule- $1000
(Changes one Pokemon's Ability to an Ability of your choice)

Unless anyone has any objections? I rather monitor them and see if they need balanced instead of nerfing them first.

[Ironthunder]

Seems fine.

[lilboocorsola]

I'm good with it.

[Zorchic]

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

I think patches need more discussion but Capsules can be implemented right now.

1x Ability Capsule- $1000
(Changes one Pokemon's Ability to an Ability of your choice)

Unless anyone has any objections? I rather monitor them and see if they need balanced instead of nerfing them first.

I'm okay with this, I don't see any problems.

EDIT: I agree that Ability Patches will probably need more discussion. I don't really want them to provide an element that is too "custom", if that makes sense.

[Princess Ana]

I think Ability Capsules are fine, although I'm not really for Ability Patches as a concept. I think it's more problematic than unnatural moves, especially for lines with a lot of different abilities such as the Eevee line.

[SpinyShell]

Regarding Ability Patches, I think it should have one purpose instead of multiple.

Originally Posted by Ironthunder

As for Patches... Entire evo line is fine but we might want to consider a clause for Eevee line specifically given how much of an oddity it is. wrt Slash's suggestion, I wouldn't be against including the Mega's ability as "part of the evo line".

I like the idea of having a specific clause for the Eevee line. Having a Vaporeon with Volt Absorb, for example, seems a bit too much in my opinion, and I would prefer that not to be the case if Patches are implemented in this way. My two suggestions for a clause would be...

(1)
Eeveelutions can only have Eevee's abilities, and not the abilities of their fellow Eeveelutions. In other words, a Vaporeaon could have Anticipation but not Volt Absorb, for example. Eevee, however, would be exempt from this to reflect its lore.

(2)
"Elemental" abilities couldn't be given to other Eeveelutions, with the exception of Eevee for the same reason as listed above. Abilities that would count as "Elemental" would be any ability that is given predominantly or exclusively to one typing. In other words Water Absorb, Hydration, Volt Absorb, Flash Fire, Leaf Guard, Chlorophyll, Ice Body, Snow Cloak, and Pixilate would be off the table for any 'mon in the line except Eevee.

But that's just my personal opinion.

[Missingno. Master]

I'm fine with that price for Ability Capsules.

And a few thoughts on Ability Patches.

1. Considering one of my examples of its effects was Leafeon with Flash Fire, I am somewhat hesitant to voice support for a specific Eevee clause, though at the same time, I can very clearly see I'm in the minority on this, so I'm not gonna press the matter. Would I have used one to give Water Absorb to my Flareon, given the opportunity? Absolutely. Is it the end of the world not getting to do that? No. And I feel like beyond Eevee, there wouldn't be too much trouble with split evo Abilities. At the very least, nothing on the same level as Eevee comes to mind, so if it has to be something, then IMO, better a specific Eevee clause than messing with other possibilities. I mean, I can't really imagine problems arising with stuff like... Glalie with Cursed Body, or...Appletun with Hustle.
2. Another idea that comes to mind- Abilities belonging to a regional form. Like, I'm talking where the whole line starts out regional, not like with Pichu or Koffing where only the final form or so is a regional form, like Slush Rush on Normal Form Sandslash. This would also raise the issue of regional evolutions- I feel like stuff like Persian/Perrserker and Cofagrigus/Runerigus would be pretty straightforward, but I'm thinking more along the lines of Obstagoon, Sirfetch'd, and Cursola.
3. I am in complete agreement with throwing Mega Abilities into the mix, and can't believe that didn't occur to me when I first suggested this.
4. I'm still in favor of the notion of removing one's Ability altogether. It's basically only really actively beneficial to Archeops and Slaking, and since my idea for this entails having to earn it in a zone as opposed to getting to buy it, I think that'd be a cool thing, getting to earn the opportunity to relieve your Archeops or Slaking of its built-in drawback. As for other Pokémon, I feel like even if it wouldn't give any sort of practical benefit, it could open the door for more RP possibilities. It's honestly something I might consider for my Weavile, since he's been recolored to have Sneasel's G/S coloration- go with the whole "retro" notion.
5. I'm willing to concede that using them to make your own Ability may have been a bit much, though I still do like my other ideas for the Ability Patch. I'm hoping we can work them into something we can at least mostly agree upon, I feel like I could be onto something with this. I look forward to further discussion on all this.

[Median Dia]

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

I think patches need more discussion but Capsules can be implemented right now.

1x Ability Capsule- $1000
(Changes one Pokemon's Ability to an Ability of your choice)

Unless anyone has any objections? I rather monitor them and see if they need balanced instead of nerfing them first.

It might be a good idea to clarify that the Ability has to be one the species can already have normally (the suggested wording technically allows nonsense like Water Bubble Rhyperior), but I'm otherwise fine with the Capsules.

[Slash]

Yeah Capsules seem more than live-ready.

I like MMs idea of allowing essentially null ability as well, either by patch or some other means. Sometimes I like to play around with a Pokemon, get a feel for who they are, before declaring an ability, for example, and for some I end up feeling like their personalitg doesn't quite jive with their available abilities at all, or the availablr abilities make me feel like the Pokemon has to go a certain way. And honestly the way static stats don't really exist in FB makes some Pokemon like Slaking and Archeops far worse off than if they didn't have an ability (or require cheese like Role Play or Skill Swap to just make them baseline functional). I'd honestly say those abilities might need FB rebalancing in general but that's probably another whole discussion.

Re:the Eevee thing, I'd personally say I'd support the Eevee clause of no Eeveeloutions being able to obtain an ability to make them immune to a weakness. So only Flash Fire Leafeon/Glaceon, Water Absorb Flareon, and Volt Absorb Vaporeon. Things like Chlorophyll, Ice Body, Leaf Guard, Hydration, I have no issue with being on whatever in that line and I think can really work well for flavour and lineage. Especially given how diverse the line's Egg Group is. Most other branched evo lines bother me basically none, I mostly said branched evos in my previous post because I was looking mainly at Eevee and I couldn't be arsed to look up every branched line to be 100% certain on them all. Off the top of my head, with Eevee excluded, the only things that give me any pause are Drizzle Polis (which may just be Gen V PTSD), Sheer Force Salamence (although logically it should be fine, since Druddigon exists), and Levitate Trapinch (just weird to me is all). Of course presuming Wonder Guard is explicitly an exception to this, as it always should be.

As for regional forms, I'm not sure. Things like the Sandshrew trading Hail and Sandstorm abilities doesn't bother me, Alolan Ninetales getting Drought is really weird and kinda turns me a bit like the idea of more Drizzle Pokemon, but I acknowledge that's probably more a knee jerk. H-Zigzagoon line with Obstagoon abilities I can jive with, and Wandering Spirit is a lot like a spicy Mummy already. But re:Eevee discussion for things like Flash Fire on Alolan Vulpix line.

And as a final note on regional formes and their abilities, we have to also consider Fizzytopian forms. If we include the regional formes, like Meowth, Zigzagoon, etc, we MUST by necessity include Fizzy forms to be consistent, which will effect the Fizzy Form process directly. We would have to keep that in mind.