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Old 10-25-2012, 01:40 PM   #76
Marion Ette
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Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Blaze do you read anything when you sign up? Probably not, but still legally applicable.

This may be getting slightly off-topic, but is this really all we have in terms of rules? Not even a 13+ rule? Considering that we don't have limits on age, and the subject matter of the forum can be argued as "directed at children", I'm wondering if this forum would qualify as being in violation of COPPA regulations. The forum does collect data such as date of birth, "digital identity" and IP address from what I understand, so I think (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong) we fall into the category of a website that falls under this rule. Might I motion for the suggestion of making this forum 13+ to avoid getting in trouble for this? In my research, I know Xanga got fined 1 Million USD for allowing children less than 13 to sign up without parental consent.

Back on topic... That clause in the rules may prevent legal action based on UM's posts alone, but if UM's actions were ever to go even one step beyond simply posting about it in the forums, I could see this forum getting into major trouble, particularly if the minor harassed/targeted was below the age of 13 and the parent had no idea they were posting here previous to the incident. If we're not going to prevent the 12 and under set from signing up, then we owe it to them to protect them from any potential harm, particularly when they themselves may not understand the full ramifications of revealing private information online.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:53 PM   #77
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The course taken by others is not necessarily the right course of action; however, I would still be interested to know how Bulbapedia and Serebii would deal with this. They've got far more children and Google recognition than we do meaning they would be much more obvious targets for child predators. I'd be curious to know if Serebii or Bulbapedia would ban somebody for expressing the view that the age of adulthood should be 12 years old. Is that an opinion you ban somebody over to protect both the children and yourself? Or is that an opinion which falls under the domain of "disagreeable but not ban-worthy"?

Regardless of their policies though, we're us. We have to decide our own policies based on what we feel is right.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:26 PM   #78
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I feel like I have some obligation to post in this thread because it is controversial and because a lot of people seem to be getting confused.

Remember that this is an isolated incident for the most part. Unownmew was not (contrary to the opinions of some) banned for daring to speak against the majority opinion. If this was the case, nobody would be banned due to the simple fact that UPN is evenly balanced between atheism and belief. If the act of speaking out against the majority was a bannable offense, Kairne would be already gone, as would Markus. As long as you fail to be a perceived threat to the community e.g. a pedophile (which if my sneaking little suspicions are correct, is the reason that one particular member was "not a very nice person, in more ways than one."), I would assume you should have an easy time retaining your place in UPN.

A second source of confusion seems to be the new rules on the Debate forum. "What constitutes hate speech?" seems to be a primary question. Let's go through examples of "hate speech"! Tell me which one sounds like hate speech and which one sounds like a more academic opinion.

Gay guys will burn in the bowels of hell for eternity for drilling other dudes. We can't let them marry or they'll try to drill all dudes in the world because they are so sex crazed.
I am adamantly opposed to the idea of gay marriage due to my religious beliefs. *proceeds to cite examples of religious beliefs*

Iff you are stating the first position, that is hate speech. It does not contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way and is openly offensive towards the opponent(s) of the speaker. The second statement is much more mild. It is an arguable statement and provides the possibility that the person's opinion could be changed if the reasons why they oppose gay marriage are overturned. Similarly, the current majority opinion (I say so because I'm fairly sure all atheists on UPN are supporters of gay marriage and some Christians/believers are also supporters) could be phrased in a way that constitutes hate speech.

All people who hate gays are gay haters who deserve to be penniless hobos. They can't see that gay people are human beings. They are no better than animals. (special atheist/catholic addition: and they haven't evolved from monkeys yet) (special atheist addition: and they believe that an invisible man in the sky also hates gays)
I think that those who are opposed to gay marriage do not fully understand what gay people are like. Their religious beliefs are too constricting; maybe if they saw it a different way, they would understand it's not all bad.

As you can see, the shades of gray involved in hate speech don't get too blurry. Contribution is not the same thing as offense, as much as it may disagree with the opinions of others. AmrasMG is perfectly within his rights to say "I am opposed to child marriage" in much the same way that unownmew took it too far by saying "I would be happy to accept her, cherish her above everything, and I'd never seek to offend or harm her in any way."
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:46 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
I really don't feel like I need to restate what's been stated multiple times by multiple people in this thread, but this was his second offense and he was warned in the past. No, nothing he posted was suggestive but he had a pretty clear sympathy for pedophiles and pretty clearly stated his beliefs of pedophilia to be a "sexual orientation" and one that he identified with.
I'm still reading through this massive cliff of text, but I can't say for certain we can conclude UM is a pedophile.

Yes, he is a lolicon. There are mountains of evidence suggesting this, from the topics he brings up, to the images he associates himself with, to his discussions of likes/dislikes and fantasy all reek of a runaway lolicon.

But I use lolicon to refer to anime/manga characters, not necessarily real-life children or pre-teens. UM's demonstrated an abstract, out of touch relationship with reality, so it's difficult to discern whether or not he's legitimately a threat or just nuts. Given his cocktail of other disagreeable opinions, my gut feeling is banning him was more a matter of looking for a borderline reason to kick him out of the forum, when he wasn't outright breaking any rules. Granted, I still have a lot to read.

I was nearly banned from BMG in 2001 for a dissimilar but no less self-incriminating position to UM, so I'm naturally alarmed by this happening. Updates to come.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:25 AM   #80
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Sorry to be cliched and disagree with Jeri about something but I think this is a poorly handled and poorly made decision. But I've not modded a forum in a few years so I may be missing information which is a contributing factor. And I really can't confess to have tea through the pedophile thread so maybe I'm missing something.
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