EGGS! AND BREEDING!

[Sneaze]

Adding additional complexity to a system in order to solve an issue that's rather simple is not exactly the best way to go about it, it's what ends up with us having to rebalance items and change numbers a year down the line.

Instead, we really should just say "Genderless can breed within the same egg group. Period."

"But what if two Genderless 'mon try to breed?" I hear ringing in my ears. You see, we already have an incense that works. Old Spice. Whichever holds it is the one that you get the child of, same goes for if a Genderless is breeding with a Female within the species. Done and done.

[lilboocorsola]

...I had forgotten a lot of genderless 'mons (aside from Legendaries) still have classified Egg groups. D'oh.

(*checks Rotom and Drifloon* Whaddya know, they do share the same group, huh...)

[Missingno. Master]

Yeah, that does seem like a simpler solution. Works for me, sure.

[Slash]

I'm down with that. Should we make Lunatone and Solrock breeding counterparts the same way we made Taurus and Miltank be?

[Lil'twick]

I'd be fine with what's been said for both genderless mons and Lunatone and Solrock.

Anyone else has anything they want to bring up or are we all good with what's been discussed. As a recap (with additional thoughts oops) we have:

6 Breeding Slots. Type Eggs will only cost one slot, and eggs won't have the quarterly time restraint. Slot Exc[/URL]hanged Eggs will have a weekly cool down, to put them along the lines of breedings. These Breed Slots will go into effect probably at the start of July, and those who used slots on type eggs should get those slots back. Though that should be discussed.

Splitting of Flying, Grass, and Bug into Two Eggs, with a look at all types and splits at gen 10. As for splitting water and normal, here is some math I did for potential Water/Normal 1, 2, and 3s :

Normal 1
33

Normal 2
17

Normal 3
9+

Water 1
36

Water 2
16

Water 3
11+

This would be for Gens (1-3), (4-6), and (7 until 9). Water/Normal 3 is under the threshold of what we're wanting in an egg pool (roughly 15 minimum), as well as not fixing the issue. Blame Gamefreak for adding so many Waters and Normals in Gens 1-3. This may become a thing in Gen 9 depending on how many hatchable mons of each of those respective types are added.

Any kind of egg from a trainer's birthday will be instantly hatchable. We will just have someone link it from their birthday post, and it'll be good to go to hatch. I think Starter/Fossil/Baby Eggs could be an idea for birthday, but Memakyu based eggs (which I just call Birthday Egg) have a smaller pool than anything in those pools (24/11/19 [once Toxel is added in] compared to a minimum base of 8 ). I rather these be Staff Reward Exclusives for now and instead have Zone Eggs be a thing for the Birthday Claim. They will be added into the Hatchery as well so it makes sense for them to be in the Calendar.

Actually, while they were introduced in the Staff Rewards THread (which really needs to be wrapped uppppppp) I want to move Zone Eggs here since this feels to be a better thread. They were designed to be an alternative to type eggs and tie into Fizzy lore via zones as well. We'd be able to implement them with these changes, and just add them in wherever type eggs are available as an alternative. As a reminder, here is the list. Hopefully, we can get this cropped and on the forum soon.

Anyone against any of this or have any further comments? We have a Fizzytopian's Birthday coming up Tuesday, so I would love to at least get the instant hatch approved immediately.

[Missingno. Master]

No objections to what's in your post, but I did want to reiterate a few questions I posted last night that, unless I missed something, seem to have been kinda overlooked. Second one's relatively minor IMO, but I feel like the first one's probably something we wanna all be clear on before these go into effect;

1: About locking in the gender with breeding, we're all thinking reduce the cost to just one extra slot, right? Part of me is wondering if we could take that a bit further, maybe make it so you could pay something else in lieu of the extra slot, Pokédollars or something?

2: The Baby Egg- it brings to mind the Odd Egg from Crystal. Between this and what Enigma attempted with his Tyrogue's birthday presents, got me thinking, perhaps the Baby Egg could ensure the hatchling knows Dizzy Punch?

[Lil'twick]

For 1) I think jsut reducing it down to one additional slot would be fine

2) I mean we need to discuss event moves in general. I rather not suddenly have a bunch of Pokemon learn new moves over this, and Odd Egg Dizzy Punch really should just be considered an Egg Move, especially since it is accessible through Virtual Console iirc.

[Sneaze]

I am, for the record, rather against having to spend breeding slots in any capacity for a gender. It's the type of thing that heavily limits the expansion of squads for those who are looking for the one 'mon they need to help expand their RP potential.

That said, I do feel that there does need to be some cost there. While the cost of money did come up, and I'm more than fine with the idea, I feel $500 is a bit low in that regard and that $1,000 is perhaps a bit more fair there.

[Ironthunder]

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

I'd be fine with what's been said for both genderless mons and Lunatone and Solrock.

Anyone else has anything they want to bring up or are we all good with what's been discussed. As a recap (with additional thoughts oops) we have:

6 Breeding Slots. Type Eggs will only cost one slot, and eggs won't have the quarterly time restraint. Slot Exchanged Eggs will have a weekly cool down, to put them along the lines of breedings. These Breed Slots will go into effect probably at the start of July, and those who used slots on type eggs should get those slots back. Though that should be discussed.

Any kind of egg from a trainer's birthday will be instantly hatchable. We will just have someone link it from their birthday post, and it'll be good to go to hatch. I think Starter/Fossil/Baby Eggs could be an idea for birthday, but Memakyu based eggs (which I just call Birthday Egg) have a smaller pool than anything in those pools (24/11/19 [once Toxel is added in] compared to a minimum base of 8 ). I rather these be Staff Reward Exclusives for now and instead have Zone Eggs be a thing for the Birthday Claim. They will be added into the Hatchery as well so it makes sense for them to be in the Calendar.

All fine, get that shit live.

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

Splitting of Flying, Grass, and Bug into Two Eggs, with a look at all types and splits at gen 10. As for splitting water and normal, here is some math I did for potential Water/Normal 1, 2, and 3s :

Normal 1
33

Normal 2
17

Normal 3
9+

Water 1
36

Water 2
16

Water 3
11+

This would be for Gens (1-3), (4-6), and (7 until 9). Water/Normal 3 is under the threshold of what we're wanting in an egg pool (roughly 15 minimum), as well as not fixing the issue. Blame Gamefreak for adding so many Waters and Normals in Gens 1-3. This may become a thing in Gen 9 depending on how many hatchable mons of each of those respective types are added.

Have you considered trying the splits to be 1-2, 3-5 and 6-9? Other than that, sure let's go ahead and split Flying, Grass and Bug.

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

Actually, while they were introduced in the Staff Rewards Thread (which really needs to be wrapped uppppppp) I want to move Zone Eggs here since this feels to be a better thread. They were designed to be an alternative to type eggs and tie into Fizzy lore via zones as well. We'd be able to implement them with these changes, and just add them in wherever type eggs are available as an alternative. As a reminder, here is the list. Hopefully, we can get this cropped and on the forum soon.

Don't see an issue here.

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

Anyone against any of this or have any further comments? We have a Fizzytopian's Birthday coming up Tuesday, so I would love to at least get the instant hatch approved immediately.

tbh most of this stuff could go live instantly with few complaints, other than Normal/Water 3 and zone eggs.

>Gender on eggs
Sure, $1000 should be fine.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Sneaze

I am, for the record, rather against having to spend breeding slots in any capacity for a gender. It's the type of thing that heavily limits the expansion of squads for those who are looking for the one 'mon they need to help expand their RP potential.

That said, I do feel that there does need to be some cost there. While the cost of money did come up, and I'm more than fine with the idea, I feel $500 is a bit low in that regard and that $1,000 is perhaps a bit more fair there.

Can this include for any kind of picked up Egg as well?

[Lil'twick]

I'm def cool with it costing $1000 instead of a slot. As for eggs, that is a hard no from me. Eggs are supposed to have an air of chance to them, so trying to guarantee a gender there just feels a little too close to breeding. With how egg rolls are coded into the bot, it automatically will roll the gender simultaniously, so we'd need to have an override coded in. I don't know, I just feel like it's a little too much with normal eggs?

Honestly for Water and Normal I really rather get into relly wonky gen splits and rather wait a generation or two to tackle it.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

I'm def cool with it costing $1000 instead of a slot. As for eggs, that is a hard no from me. Eggs are supposed to have an air of chance to them, so trying to guarantee a gender there just feels a little too close to breeding. With how egg rolls are coded into the bot, it automatically will roll the gender simultaniously, so we'd need to have an override coded in. I don't know, I just feel like it's a little too much with normal eggs?

Gary did confirm that using an extra breed slot to guarantee gender from regular Eggs was an option as well, just didn't make use of it since the cost-effectiveness wasn't that much of a benefit. If we are changing the cost amount/type for breeding I feel we should reflect it on regular Eggs as well to some degree in the interest of fairness when it was the same before.

[Lil'twick]

Originally Posted by lilboocorsola

Gary did confirm that using an extra breed slot to guarantee gender from regular Eggs was an option as well, just didn't make use of it since the cost-effectiveness wasn't that much of a benefit. If we are changing the cost amount/type for breeding I feel we should reflect it on regular Eggs as well to some degree in the interest of fairness when it was the same before.

I've not heard of this ruling and would need to see proof of it. As well, in the Hatchery OP this is what is stated for gender influence:

Hatchling Gender-Influencing Service
For those who are seeking a particular gender from the outcome of their incubated hatchling, the Hatchery staff offers a service to influence the egg during its thermosensitive period. The following rules apply:
1. 2 Breeding Slots may be exchanged in order to request a specific gender from the outcome of your egg. These come in addition to one already being used for the current breed, to a total of 3.
2. To exchange, simply post in the hatchery either when dropping off the parents to breed or while the egg is being incubated. You may not request this service after the egg has already been hatched.

It is pretty much implicit that this is just for breeding, and the wording basically says it can occur any time during the breeding process before hatching the egg. Considering how everything is implemented with how we do eggs, it would take an overhaul to implement something that wasn't even officialized into the Hatchery OP when stated to be as such.

Edit:

Yuki has provided me with a link. Ruling was done via Discord, so this specific thing will be discussed by the mods and then a decision will be made. As for everything else, hopefully that can be pushed through today if no one has any objections?

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

Yuki has provided me with a link. Ruling was done via Discord, so this specific thing will be discussed by the mods and then a decision will be made. As for everything else, hopefully that can be pushed through today if no one has any objections?

Again it was only explicitly stated on Discord so I sent the message link there, but for transparency he said:

Originally Posted by Gary

I actually intentionally left the language of the rules open enough that you could influence a non-bred egg's gender as long as you spend 2 egg slots before the egg hatches

Granted this wasn't hardcoded into the forum rules anywhere but he specifically went on to clarify that this wasn't a "loophole", but rather just another intended option. (Ofc probably part of the reason it wasn't clearly put in the OP is bc no one would ever bother with it given the high risk regardless lol. Also I might've been mistaken in thinking gender influences generally only cost one extra breed slot already either way, but point still stands.)

At any rate, there's still plenty element of chance with non-bred Eggs* so I don't think guaranteeing gender takes away from that. As for the bot couldn't we just declare the hatched 'mon is the desired gender regardless of what it rolls so long as people pay the cost beforehand?

*For the record I'm fine with this only being the case for slot-exchanged Eggs, not Eggs picked up elsewhere.

And no objections for the rest of agreed upon changes.

[Lil'twick]

I'd be cool with it if it was just for slot exchanged eggs, just not for all Eggs in general (kind of read the initial thing as that Yuki). I mean, Birthday Egg kind of already has the guaranteed gender (unless it is not denoted) anyways. It's more or less talking about how we're going to be handling discord-specific rulings since things need to be put on the forums somewhere regardless of where the initial ruling was made. If it wasn't, then, it creates gray area situations. Do need to wait on the mods on this, since it wasn't forum codified, but as long as it is just for slot exchanged eggs I'd be fine with it.

[lilboocorsola]

Yeah sorry was in a rush this morning so didn't write/think things through carefully, but I mainly meant slot-exchanged Eggs first and foremost. (Though I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to the gender guarantee exchange rate being applicable to any Egg.)

[Prof.Enigma]

Popping in to say I agree pretty much along the lines of what has been proposed so far and that we are working on finding Discord rulings to look over and make officially stated across FB

[Sneaze]

Originally Posted by lilboocorsola

Can this include for any kind of picked up Egg as well?

Yeah I'm fine with this for anything that uses a breed slot, but not say, an egg from Bi-Monthlies, for example.

[Lil'twick]

Hatchery and Egg changes:

With us wanting to wrap up the breeding and egg thread, the mods have discussed, and here are the changes we want to be implemented.
-Breeding Slots will be expanded to 6 slots total. These will go into effect immediately on approval.
Implementation of Zone Eggs into the Game. These will be available everywhere Type Eggs are available for the same price/tier.
-Re-implementation of Starter, Fossil, and Baby Eggs. All starters and fossils will be added, and Toxel will be added into the Baby Egg pool. These will be exclusive to Staff Rewards and the Trainer Birthday reward.
-The splitting of the Flying, Grass, and Bug-typed Eggs into two eggs. These will be split into groups of Gen 1-Gen 4 and Gen 5-Gen 8. This is the same as the current Water and Normal Eggs.
-Enigma, Type, and Zone Eggs will be available for exchange in the hatchery. These will cost 1 Breeding Slot for exchange and have a one-week cooldown after hatch. Previous additional slots used for type egg exchanges will be refunded to those who used them.
-Gender-Influence Breeding will now cost $1000 instead of additional slots. This will also apply to Eggs gotten through Breeding Slot Exchange, and only through Breeding Exchange. Eggs gotten from all other sources are exempt.
-Implementation of instantly hatching Trainer Birthday Reward Eggs. This will include the following: Enigma Egg, Type Egg, Zone Egg, Fossil Egg, Starter Egg, Baby Egg, or Birthday Egg. The Birthday Egg requires at least 8 hatchable Pokemon in a trainer's Memakyu, in order to hatch a Pokemon from there. If there are less than 8, this will function as an Enigma Egg.
-Genderless Pokemon will now be able to breed with Pokemon of their respective Egg Groups. Breeding with a Female Pokemon will make it act as the "Paternal", while with a Male Pokemon as the "Maternal". Breeding two Genderless Pokemon together (sans Ditto), will require an Old Spice Incense, and the holder will have their offspring produced.
-Solrock and Lunatone will function the same as the Nidorans, Illumise/Volbeat, and Tauros/Miltank; giving the chance of one of those mon hatching depending on the gender roll. Solrock will be considered part of the Volbeat/Tauros side, while Lunatone will be considered part of the Illumise/Miltank side.
-Breeding two Ditto together will require an Old Spice as well.

We will be holding a reaction poll on discord, as well as people to get thoughts out here. Since it is a member's birthday on Wednesday, we would like to get these changes implemented ASAP, and if we see a quick supermajority it will most likely go live.

[Missingno. Master]

Quick question, the answer of which will not impact my approval of this; how far back are we able to go to be reimbursed extra breeding slots spent on type Eggs? Beginning of the year, or as far back as the old system itself went?

[Lil'twick]

Originally Posted by Missingno. Master

Quick question, the answer of which will not impact my approval of this; how far back are we able to go to be reimbursed extra breeding slots spent on type Eggs? Beginning of the year, or as far back as the old system itself went?

Beginning of the year. We have the records of all of 2021 so it's easy to keep track of.

[Saiza]

I haven't been here long enough to give input but I do like the sound of these changes! Only thing I'm struggling to figure out are what Zone Eggs are/what Pokemon are in them

[Lil'twick]

Zone Eggs are Eggs created by the ZAs (and ran by previous ZAs/Zone Creators thatbwere available) to be thematic to the zones. Each Zone has two eggs with 25 mons in each list. The list id linked in this thread on post #30, and will be editted into the Hatchery OP once changes hit live.