EGGS! AND BREEDING!

[Prof.Enigma]

Heyo, Prof.Enigma here. We might as well get this thread up and rolling so we can get working on this too, and hopefully get it done in a timely manner!

So from the title of the topic of the Dev thread should be pretty obvious, but here's a rundown of things so far that need to be discussed from my understanding.

FIRST UP:
We have a proposal of Starter Eggs and Fossil Eggs being brought back, For the most part, We the mods feel this should be an Okay thing to bring back again, SO how are You the community feeling on this prospect?

Second Up:
We will be needing to Discuss how to go about splitting some of the typed Eggs such as Flying and Bug eggs like how we have Water 1 and Water 2 Eggs

Third Notion to Talk about:
Egg slot trade in Options.

If there are any other proposals to be discussed right now relating to Breeding, or Eggs in general that I have missed feel free to throw them here in the thread.

[Slash]

1 )
Behind Starter Eggs and Fossil Eggs returning 100%

2 )
I don't have a list in front of me, but I'd say split based on generation, have what gen transition it is for each egg (changing with a new gen release if needed) posted. Split should be where each side has the closest to equal numbers. Would need a list to say where the best division would be. That seems to be the common sense solution.

3 )
Okay so this is a big one. For one, sex influence should not cost 2 additional slots. Personally, I am of the opinion that the Pokemon's sex should be something the player gets to choose, like ability. That is my proposal on that.

I do know there's some people who want the sex ratios to mean something for The Hatchery. While I disagree, my secondary proposal would be cutting the egg slot increase down to 1, OR, to ensure some kind of investment is needed, something like a $500 payment for sex influence. That way people don't have to almost entirely exhaust the very limited breeding slot resource to get a single Pokemon of their preferred sex.

For Fossil and Starter Eggs, I'd say place them at the tier of costing the same number of breeding slots as a type egg. If we include Pichu and Eevee (which I seem to remember historically we have), that leaves a significantly higher pool of Pokemon than some type eggs already. Fossil has fewer, but it's still not so much of a difference I would advocate for an additional premium on them.

Speaking of type eggs, I think they can be moved to 1 slot for exchange. If I recall correctly, Ditto can be hatched only from Enigma and Birthday Eggs, and I would also advocate for the mix-and-match Fossils being hatchable from them and only them, as well. I'd also say that Phione being classified as a legendary is kinda dumb and I would not mind it being added to those two specific pools as well. I think this kind of exclusivity for Enigma eggs would make them about on par.

I did have one other random idea, really just kinda throwing it out there to maybe generate discussion, and that would be the ability to echange, I dunno, maybe 2 slots, to raise a Pokemon to 20 so it can now breed.

Extra )
It's been talked about before, but I want to bring up the idea of the Rent-A-Ditto service. Something like a $500 fee one can pay to use a Ditto as their breeding Pokemon, to breed with either one of their own Pokemon or a willing other person's Pokemon. Maybe limit this to something like twice per year per person, the same as the breeding slot per Pokemon limit.

I also would not be opposed to going from 4 to 5 general slots per year but I'm not expecting that to happen.

[Sneaze]

Okay not responding to all of that at this exact moment aside from just this.

Rent-A-Ditto is not happening. It devalues multiple other existing items and services drastically including Incenses, the need to level a Pokemon that can be used as a breeding partner, and multiple other running issues.

I do recognize, however, that this is primarily wanted to help breed Genderless Pokemon, and that is something I would be fine with us discussing as to how we can allow them to breed without requiring a Ditto.

[Lil'twick]

Alright so let me get my thoughts out here.

SO I am cool with Starter and Fossil Eggs returning, though they will most likely be Staff Reward exclusive since we still need some incentives for people to update omg. Please. Please update.

Anyways, as it currently stands there are over 40 options to pull from both flying and grass eggs, so they are the two that need to split before new generation games out. Bug is getting dangerously close to that number, so it'll probably need to be done once an eventual Gen 9 does. I already did the numbers for having the eggs split off the same exact way as Water and Normal Eggs (1-4, 5-.

Flying 1
25

Flying 2
18+

Grass 1
21

Grass 2
21+

As you can see, Flying doesn't exactly split well while Grass splits perfectly. Blame Gen 1s through 3 on being extremely Normal/Flying heavy. I rather stick to what is currently established with how eggs are split, so this is pretty much what will go into effect. I also did the numbers for Bug, and here are what I got

Bug 1
21

Bug 2
16+

As you can see, Bug Eggs already have 37 options in it. If we assume that there are 3 new hatachable bug types in Gen 9, then the list will need to be split. It's all about trying to keep the eggs as balanced as possible but also keeping things to the same amount within a set distinction. Right now, the first 4 generations have 493 total Pokemon, while the last 4 have 405. So Gen 9 will be added to the "2" Egg Pool, and then if a Gen 10 comes out (jfc) then type eggs will be looked at again to be rebalanced.

And now it's time to go to another kind of math: Breed Slots.

Hi, as the one who made the gender chance a thing, I do think it needs to be an additional slot, not an additional two. Having the entirety of my breed slots locked to a single mon in 2019 wasn't fun, or pleasant. I think that how we do things in terms of Pokemon Gender is fine. It is a mechanic that is within the game to have it rolled by RNG, and is one of the few things that should stay. Especially since some Pokemon have evolutions and movesets based on their gender. As much as I hate to say it, people almost will never willingly choose a male Salandit or Combee.

I rather keep the Franken Fossils to be revival only, maybe as a Birthday Egg thing, but besides that with how unique they are it just kind of feels weird to have them catchable from eggs normal besides that. I do think we could be laxer on type eggs since it's just having a narrower pool. Though, I rather go with an additional slot route. Actually, both are good. If you aren't breeding or going for enigmas, then you're locked to two hatches a year while most other people will be able to get double that within a year's time. 4 slots a year honestly felt like a massive gate, and while it does give people a lot of Pokemon, at the same time it's also massively restrictive.

Speaking of arbitrary slot stuff. I'd like the time limit on exchanging slots for eggs to be removed. Since, well, if someone could blow their entire load on breeding within the first month, then they should be able to do the same with eggs. It really just feels like an artificial floodgate more than anything else. If people want Pokemon they should be able to get Pokemon. It's still less than, like, the 26 mon per year for an eligible member back when the Egg House was a thing.

As for giving people slots... That's a little, uh, no in my book. We have these slots for a reason, and people should plan what they want to do with them as they please. I rather not someone be able to cycle through their complete memakyu by just bumming slots off of people. It also just makes them a currency, and that is the last thing we need. (Future Eggs anyone???)

[lilboocorsola]

1) Agreed with Lilt that Starter and Fossil Eggs should probably remain as Staff/Updator Rewards-only.

2) I'm not good with the maths so I'll leave this one.

3) I'm all for decreasing the cost requirement for Type Eggs and/or increasing the number of slots per year. Even as a non-breeder it seems a little strange to me people need to plan their breeding slot uses years in advance. Also definitely get rid of the time limit for Egg exchanges, since the wait seems arbitrary + it just creates a waste if someone misses the window.

[Lil'twick]

Yeah as someone who has things planned into 2023 for breeds, we, uh, need to increase slots. My mind went to eight originally for some reason but, uh, knew that would be hard vetoed. It's honestly the most important thing of this discussion.

[Prof.Enigma]

Random thought. What if we have a split between Breeding Slots and egg slots. I can't put solid inputs on this discussion thread as eggs and breeding ( while I do occasionally do both ) aren't always thought through with me.

But what IF, people can have X breeds, and X egg slots ( x in place for whatever number decided upon ) if breeding you can use Breeding slots to guarantee gender, and still have chances to get eggos, with the egg slots using up for specific eggos.

tis but a random idea I thought about for a moment

[Ironthunder]

The issue with splitting breeding slots and egg slots is that some of us don't really give a second shit about breeding.

Upping to 6 or 8 breed/egg slots, fine. Maybe have 6 slots and then 2 "empty slots" that can only be used for modifying eggs/breeds? Might be able to tie into updating rewards.

Starter and Fossil eggs, I can understand keeping them locked to updater rewards/bimonthlies.

Rent-A-Ditto with the clause that it's exclusively for genderless is fine.

Splitting Grass/Bug/Flying, might need some context for that. How big are the other egg pools?

[Missingno. Master]

Eight or even six breeding slots would be fine by me. All for fossil and starter eggs returning. Will weigh in more on this after work.

[Lil'twick]

Originally Posted by Ironthunder

Splitting Grass/Bug/Flying might need some context for that. How big are the other egg pools?

Don't have the hard numbered list anymore since, well, that doc got deleted.

Anyways Water 1 is about 38 itself, and Water 2 also in the 30s??? Similar thing with normal.

Besides the two mega-types, the one closest to Bug IIRC is Ground at 32. The rest of the type eggs are within the 32 to 18 range (which I believe is either Dragon or Ghost last). Basically, it's to help make it so an egg pool isn't too huge and there is a better chance for someone to get something. It's to also help to make sure that these egg pools in the future won't become too bloated.

The reason we have Zone Eggs at 25 mons per egg is so that there is both a good variety of mons available, but also a decent chance of getting a specific one from the pool. 40+ is the point where it gets too saturated and the chances of getting something is obnoxiously slim. We'll probably have to do a massive split at Gen 10, but this is more to help alleviate that immediate problem.

Edit:

I think 6 breed slots works. 8 is a little too much I feel.

[Ironthunder]

6 slots works. I think offering updaters 2 extra slots to spend on modifying their other slots might work too?

[Slash]

6 is fine. Would not be opposed to 8, either, but understandable if some find it a bit much, especially if we lower the type egg cost like we probably should. I don't think giving updators more slots is a good idea, though. Staff rewards should be covering that, no? Especially if Fossil and Starter Eggs lie there

I would like to propose making the mix and match fossils Birthday Egg hatchable at the very least, to make it official.

I'm all for splitting Flying, Grass, and Bug now, and establishing basic protocol for later splitting for upcoming types like Ground so we don't need to have an egg-splitting discussuon every new Gen.

Now, this would need to be run by Okiku, but how do people feel about eggs that you can't trade slots for (such as Fossil, Zone, etc, eggs) being able to be claimed in a Birthday? It would have basically the same effect as your Memakyu just have those Pokemon on it and grabbing the Birthday Egg, but simpler.

Since no Rent a Ditto isn't happening, what are we going to do for sex indeterminate species? All I can think of is some kind of Incense that makes them able to breed with any gendered Pokemon of their Egg Group.

[lilboocorsola]

Agreed on 6 slots being fine (considering the likely reduced Type Egg cost), though wouldn't mind 8 either.

I'm not sure how to feel about Frankenfossils being hatchable given the unique circumstances of their "creation" + the work put in collecting Watts, but I do think they should be obtainable somehow outside of Raids so I suppose as a Birthday Egg option would work. Also like the idea of special Eggs being Birthday claimable as well.

On that note, been going through old records and found there was a Baby Egg at one point. Perhaps that could be added to the pool as well?

[Slash]

Baby egg sounds cool, I'd be down for that being an option.

[Lil'twick]

Baby Egg will need Toxel included but I'm cool with it.

Also, I wanted to bring about the idea of instantly hatchable Birthday Eggs. Feels like shit you have to wait a week for it.

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by Lil'twick

Also, I wanted to bring about the idea of instantly hatchable Birthday Eggs. Feels like shit you have to wait a week for it.

I would be for this. Honestly had been thinking of cashing in slots for a Type Egg(s?) beforehand to hatch on my Birthday (rather than waiting to do all together - also in case I did hatch a want and thus could adjust my list accordingly so as not to end up with duplicates ^^; ). Would be cool if I could do that and then come back for the Birthday Egg on the same day.

[Missingno. Master]

I'm in favor of instantly hatchable Birthday Eggs, personally. Just makes more sense for it to hatch on one's birthday.

Also, about locking in the gender with breeding, we're all thinking reduce the cost to just one extra slot, right? Part of me is wondering if we could take that a bit further, maybe make it so you could pay something else in lieu of the extra slot, Pokédollars or something.

Baby Egg, updated to include Toxel- I'm game, sure. And hell, it brings to mind the Odd Egg from Crystal. Between this and what Enigma attempted with his Tyrogue's birthday presents, got me thinking, perhaps the Baby Egg could ensure the hatchling knows Dizzy Punch?

[Sneaze]

Yeah I've been pushing for pre-incubated birthday eggs for... 10 months? so yeah. Definitely want to push those out.

[OkikuMew]

Hello, chipping in as the main calendar rep!

Well before I start off, to clarify in terms of terminology, a Birthday Egg is an egg related to the Memakyu. But I'm pretty sure you guys are referring to any egg picked up for your trainer birthday in the calendar. Soooooo to avoid confusion I'll keep calling the latter as a birthday egg, and the former as memakyu-based egg. (Maybe we should change the name to Memakyu egg officially? Eh nah, Only place you can get that specific egg is for your birthday so we'll stick to its original name.)

Yeah, I'm all down for pre-incubated calendar eggs. Like MM said, it makes sense that the egg hatches on the "day" you pick it up. (It's kinda cute too, having a Pokémon share your birthday. Well, not in terms of the calendar... you know what I mean!) And it doesn't put more work on the calendar side, so I don't see Wynaut. Only thing we might need to do is have the Hatchery require a link to the pickup post in the calendar, to avoid having people bypassing the incubation time by passing their egg as a birthday one.

My current concern right now is in terms of the new types of eggs, since the calendar can give those as birthday eggs. As it stands right now, you have the choice of a Memakyu-based egg, any type-based egg, and an Enigma egg. Whatever is decided with the new type-based eggs will stick to that, but should the other new kinds of eggs you are talking about should be available too, as in Starter, Fossil and Baby? I would think that if someone that wants a specific Pokémon in those, they would prefer to take Memakyu egg instead of the others as they'll have a higher chance (at least if they have less Pokémon in their Memakyu than Pokémon hatchable in that egg.)

On the actual discussion of the type-based eggs, I actually thought we could replace it completely with eggs based on the Egg Group instead. At first I thought it was a good idea since each group have about 60-ish Pokémon... until I read the amount of Pokémon in the Field group. And the fact that Pokémon can have two Egg Groups. And how little Pokémon are in the Water 2 and 3 groups. Sooooooooooooooooooooo nevermind that idea then :P But still throwing it in, in case it would spark an idea into someone else. (Brainstorm, yaaay!)

As for the breeding slots... I don't have a say in it as I don't partake in that mechanic of FB at all, so I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Sorry ^^;

[Ironthunder]

Ok so, currently we have general acceptance for
-Birthday Eggs hatching on the day of, rather than a week later
-6 breeding slots
-Removal of the timegate on trading in breeding slots for eggs.
-Starter, Fossil and Baby eggs

That stuff seems to be universally agreed with, and honestly if that goes live I doubt people will complain. So, remaining things:
-Rent-a-Ditto for $500 for genderless only: Had barely any feedback but I doubt anyone minds.

-Splitting Flying, Grass and maybe Bug egg groups. For the record, their pool sizes would be:
Flying 1: 25
Flying 2: 18+
Grass 1: 21
Grass 2: 21+
Bug 1: 21
Bug 2: 16+

Compared to the current options (manual count so might be a little wavy):
Flying Unified: 43
Grass Unified: 42
Normal 1: 40
Water 1: 38
Bug Unified: 37
Psychic: 32
Rock: 30
Poison: 29
Ground: 28
Fire: 25
Electric: 25
Flying 1: 25
Normal 2: 24+
Dark: 24
Water 2: 23+
Ghost: 22
Grass 1: 21
Grass 2: 21+
Bug 1: 21
Fighting: 21
Fairy: 21
Steel: 20
Ice: 18
Flying 2: 18+
Bug 2: 16+
Dragon: 15 (19 if you count Trapinch, Swablu, Horsea and Skrelp, idk if they were added for evolving into Dragons)

I think honestly maybe it's something to look into with upcoming gens, but as it stands cutting the early pools here is a little too early. That said, it might be worth trimming down Water 1 and Normal 1 a little more if we're considering splitting Bug.

[Missingno. Master]

Something that only just occurred to me- years back, I asked if using an Old Spice Incense in a breeding pair involving a Ditto would result in a Ditto offspring and was told no, but I'm wondering now, would we be opposed to changing that?

[lilboocorsola]

Originally Posted by OkikuMew

I would think that if someone that wants a specific Pokémon in those, they would prefer to take Memakyu egg instead of the others as they'll have a higher chance (at least if they have less Pokémon in their Memakyu than Pokémon hatchable in that egg.)

Speaking as someone who still feels Birthday Eggs make things a bit too "easy" (I'm only planning to pick one up this year as an experiment since I was determined to get a Honedge by Skyward Sword HD's release date, and as I made a list anyway in anticipation might as well despite already finding Fi elsewhere =P), I would appreciate having alternative options that narrow the pool down a little more but also allow for some element of surprise. (What can I say, I do enjoy gacha - to an extent lol.)

Re: Rent-a-Ditto

I don't have much stake in breeding Ditto or genderless 'mons at this time, but as someone who also eschews breeding unless the parents are already in an established relationship, the idea of "renting" a Ditto for the express purpose of... "procreation" makes me rather uncomfortable. >>; =/ Personally I think I'd prefer another Incense item that just lets Ditto and genderless 'mons breed with a partner of their choosing (or like MM said just let the Old Spice Incense double for that), but again it's not really my place to say given I don't have a particularly strong investment either way. (Although perhaps my Rotom-H and Drifloon could finally have a kid of their own someday in that case, hm...)

[Sneaze]

Originally Posted by Sneaze

Rent-A-Ditto is not happening. It devalues multiple other existing items and services drastically including Incenses, the need to level a Pokemon that can be used as a breeding partner, and multiple other running issues.

[Lil'twick]

Originally Posted by Sneaze

Rent-A-Ditto is not happening. It devalues multiple other existing items and services drastically including Incenses, the need to level a Pokemon that can be used as a breeding partner, and multiple other running issues.

[Missingno. Master]

I propose a Ditto Incense. Throw it in with a breeding pair that involves a genderless mon and its partner functions like a Ditto. Egg Group restrictions would still apply (though I'd be personally all for a way to circumvent that as well, having several Pokémon relationships going that proves that love knows no Egg groups, but one thing at a time, I'm thinking). If both mons are genderless... I'd want to say it would go by whichever mon isn't holding the Ditto Incense, but then that'd make it the only incense where it actually matters which parent holds it, which could complicate things if some members have bought it and others haven't... Maybe just make it so you have to declare in the post which genderless mon is to determine the species?