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Old 06-07-2017, 07:19 AM   #51
OkikuMew
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Ok, my turn to be "that" gal here.

I was gonna object very strongly against not having Pokémon, because it is the only thing I cared about the coins (therefore the event with vouchers), and had no care whatsoever with items, so removing the Pokémon would've admittedly make me mad to no end.

That said, I am ok for a compromise that those getting a Pokémon have to RP for it.

That said again, I don't like the idea of getting a random Pokémon, even with three chances. I dunno, but it feels like the shitty casino all over again: something relying on pure chance. Yes I know that's what it is used for the Springtime event, but there's two things that bugs me:
  1. the number of Pokémon available in each tier of vouchers. Let's say that I want just a single Pokémon in the 40-voucher "tier", say a Gastly. Even with the three chances, that gives me only 3/20 chances of getting the Pokémon I want! (There's 18 baby Pokémon, btw.) Sure that's the most extreme case, but it is still ridiculous, since other tiers as just as much of a horrible chance (tier of 70 vounchers with Porygon and every fossil Pokémon) and those you're basically 100% sure of getting what you want (50-voucher tier with only 3 Pokemon). Sure, you can always trade it, but here's my second point...
  2. The CfP was made to be able to choose our prize. The system of random Pokémon works in adventures and other events because it's something that you get for "free" (besides needing to RP and stuff) and makes sense context-wise, but it doesn't make sense for replacing the only thing that was not random out of a previous bad system that we're trying to compensate before getting rid of ir. Yes the amount of coins you get from the casino was random, but at least you had the power of choosing whatever you wanted, which was the whole point a LOT of us were saving coins in the first place. And with the idea of random Pokémon instead of choosing... that's just removing what we came here in the first place! I'm sure I'm not the only one, but if I end up not getting what I want, i would feel completely ripped off, and trading won't fix filling that void. (Unless somehow in all that luck-based thing someone else gets the Pokémon you want and is willing to trade.)

So that said, I do not tolerate at all the idea of randomising the Pokémon, but I approve the idea of the vouchers and the required RP to receive Pokémon.



I also second GS and Balbund's question about being able to sell stuff that was worth coins (i.e. Bases that are now free, Rare Bones, Hunter Plushies, etc.), but for the record, I personally don't mind if we can't and the items become either obsolete or now gives Pokedollars.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:01 AM   #52
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I'll be "that" person, and say I don't like the idea of being able to pay to get what you want in RPs.

If there is a Casino blowout RP, it should have the same risks/rewards for everyone. If person A who only has 10 vouchers can only be guaranteed a small prize from the RP while person B with 40 vouchers is guaranteed something specracular, what you have is pay-for-play.

The Casino was already broken and I'm fine with people cashing out their prizes but let's not sully the foundation of the game -- the RP -- with pay-for-play nonsense. I would much rather see people just outright buy their Pokémon with vouchers than see this game turn into one where pay-for-play is a thing.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:22 AM   #53
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I think Okiku has a very valid point, which is why I stand behind my proposed compromise, personally. If it was a free event, then absolutely I'd be all for the randomized aspect of it, but since we'd be using up Coin Vouchers for a shot at something, I'd personally a bit more of a guarantee. The Pokémon I intend to buy, I already have it all worked out- species, gender, nickname, personality.

Don't get me wrong- absolutely we should still RP for it. I was in favor of required RP for Pokémon when I first offered up my compromise, and I'm still in favor of it now. I'm just saying, for this sort of thing, I think it makes a bit more sense for us to pick what we want and RP for it.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:13 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkikuMew View Post
the number of Pokémon available in each tier of vouchers. Let's say that I want just a single Pokémon in the 40-voucher "tier", say a Gastly. Even with the three chances, that gives me only 3/20 chances of getting the Pokémon I want! (There's 18 baby Pokémon, btw.) Sure that's the most extreme case, but it is still ridiculous, since other tiers as just as much of a horrible chance (tier of 70 vounchers with Porygon and every fossil Pokémon) and those you're basically 100% sure of getting what you want (50-voucher tier with only 3 Pokemon).
Maybe, to at least address this point, the Pokemon at certain tiers (a.k.a. the 40 and 70 voucher tiers, maybe the 60 voucher tier if people fear there's too many even at this tier) could be split up into different groups and placed in separate subareas for people to adventure in so there's not too much variance and people feel there's a reasonable chance they get the Pokemon they want without actually guaranteeing things for those people. For example, in the 70 voucher tier (Fossils and Porygon) we could have a pond area for Omanyte, Kabuto, Tirtouga, and Anorith, maybe a jungle-like enclosure for Lileep, Tyrunt, and Cranidos, and then some mountainous room for Aerodactyl, Shieldon, and Amaura, with Porygon maybe sharing all three areas (because Porygon is just weird like that ).
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Old 06-07-2017, 03:58 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Gemini Spark View Post
Maybe, to at least address this point, the Pokemon at certain tiers (a.k.a. the 40 and 70 voucher tiers, maybe the 60 voucher tier if people fear there's too many even at this tier) could be split up into different groups and placed in separate subareas for people to adventure in so there's not too much variance and people feel there's a reasonable chance they get the Pokemon they want without actually guaranteeing things for those people. For example, in the 70 voucher tier (Fossils and Porygon) we could have a pond area for Omanyte, Kabuto, Tirtouga, and Anorith, maybe a jungle-like enclosure for Lileep, Tyrunt, and Cranidos, and then some mountainous room for Aerodactyl, Shieldon, and Amaura, with Porygon maybe sharing all three areas (because Porygon is just weird like that ).
This is more or less what I wanted to suggest if the idea were to get rolling, but most people aren't on board with it so I'm going to just say we should probably scrap it and go back to the drawing board. It's fine.

Some of us have been discussing some other potential ideas to propose that I think someone may post if we can come to an agreement (on one possible idea in particular that seems to have a lot of support so far, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it)
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Old 06-08-2017, 12:20 AM   #56
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I'm having trouble to type on my tablet, but I'll do my best to answer peeps ^^;


>Tate

My apologies if my points doesn't 100% reflect what you say, as I am trying to understand and at the same time answer you ^^;;

Well of what I can understand of the 'RP' solution, the RPing is only required for those who wants/is getting a Pokémon. So someone who is just picking up items doesn't need to go through all the extra trouble.

What I understand is one thing you are worried about is how FB will always turn out to be like that, that is "pay to play". Rest assure, at least on my part, that it isn't how I want FB as a whole to be, either; I want to limit as much as possible of having to "pay" to fully enjoy the game. This event thing is only to fix a horrible thing, and after that's done, I wish to not see something like this anymore. (Not an event to catch Pokémon through RP, mind you ^^; I mean of having to pay to be able play an event.)


>MM

I don't got anything to add in particular to your comment, but it does bring a question: what about the choice of gender? Would that be randomized too? Personally it would not affect me as the Pokémon I am interested are either genderless or I don't mind any gender anyway, but I know how I am usually picky with my Pokémon's gender, and so are others, like yourself.


>GS

Well in this case, admittedly it is a bit better that way and, at the "worse" case scenario, I would grudgingly accept it if the general consensus is having things randomized; but I would have still questions and concerns. Would each group/zone tell in advance which Pokemon are in it, so it loses the luck part of choosing the wrong group/zone? How many Pokémon would there be in each group? And what about the 3-Pokemon 50-voucher tier? What I want to see is to have something like a 3/4 chance of getting what you want - that is, for example, you can choose right away the group of 4 Pokémon that has the one that interests the person, and may have a chance that the 3 Pokémon they meet up isn't the one he/she wanted.


>Deo

Well, I would love to hear the suggestions, even if they're not 100% complete and just a general idea
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:52 AM   #57
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(This here reflects my opinion as a member, not a ruling as a mod.)

Okay, let me first state that this is not meant to be a give-away event, which is what it appears to be made out to be. The point of the coin discussion was to find a way that members could make one last use of the coin balance they had from oldFB as they hadn’t been given a chance to spend some of it, and some might have wanted to before the CfP got closed down. We are not looking to make a permanent shop of these prizes nor are we looking to make it some sort of event. It is meant to be a last ‘going-out-of-business’ sale.

>Free vouchers for low currency holders.
No, I’m against this. The point is to make a last use of the coins you have and to get rid of them. Giving away vouchers or coins stands exactly against the reason we’re doing this in the first place. We’ve already lowered the purchase threshold of most items so that people with low coin balances can still make use of this system, there is no reason to give people more.

>Getting rid of Pokémon purchases
I would agree if this was meant to be built as a permanent shop, as allowing for easy purchasable Pokémon this way would go against the RP-earning incentive we’re going for in the new FB. But this is not a permanent shop, these are the old prizes people were able to obtain in the old CfP and again the purpose of this is supposed to be that people can make one last use of the CfP before it disappears into the Hall of Records permanently. Pokémon prizes were a part of the CfP which is why I believe they should remain as a purchase in this case.

>Coin refunds for old purchases
While I have wasted my fair share of coins as well I’m inclined to say no on this. We’re looking to find a way people can make a last purchase with the coins they had left not the total coin earnings they’ve had. I understand it feels like a loss as some of these items have become free (such as bases) but everyone is losing, to some extent, part of their coin balance. If we were looking into a way to have the old coin balances repurposed as a currency in the new FB it might have been a different story.

>Roleplaying for Pokémon
With this I would gladly encourage people to make an RP post when purchasing a Pokémon, but I am not looking to make it mandatory for people. If this were a permanent shop whose mechanics we wanted to fit with the new FB we could have looked into doing this, but this is a one time deal, and it would only unnecessarily stretch the amount of time and effort needed for this if we’re looking to create more zone adventures for this, short or not. I’d prefer having this over with as quickly as possible. For now, I think we can treat Pokémon purchases here the same way we do it for the Adoption Centre and the Hatchery – two permanent shops where Pokémon can also be obtained – being that RP is heavily encouraged and applauded but by no means obligatory.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:59 AM   #58
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@OkikuMew: Maybe 1-2 Pokemon from the 60 voucher tier could be moved to the 50 voucher tier? That'd be the easiest solution I can think of.

@EAI: For me, I wasn't particularly looking for coin refunds from base purchases or anything, I was just wondering if Haunter Plushies and/or Rare Bones or other items like them could be sold for coins before we turned our total number of coins in for vouchers.
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Old 06-10-2017, 06:03 PM   #59
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@EAI: For me, I wasn't particularly looking for coin refunds from base purchases or anything, I was just wondering if Haunter Plushies and/or Rare Bones or other items like them could be sold for coins before we turned our total number of coins in for vouchers.
Our thought was to create new Pokedollar values for these items, though - personal pet peeve - the Haunter plushie really should probably do something more thematically appropriate than give out currency, like teach a spoopy ghost-type move or have some kind of RP-related effect. Either way, things like big pearls and rare bones will have pokedollar values associated with them, I imagine.

Honestly, my STRONG inclination is to wipe the coin balances and then host the Casino event. All members would be invited.

The event is still in its planning stage, but my idea is that there would be three phases:

1) INVESTIGATION PHASE - DAY

This is the plainclothes information gathering phase. Members have one Pokemon with them to help them search the area for entrances, exits, areas of interest, clues, secret passages, etc. Areas where rare Pokemon are kept can be identified. Items can be stolen in this phase.

2) PLANNING PHASE - EVENING

Everyone comes together, shares what they've learned, and forms groups depending on desired targets (for example, if the fountain is discovered to have an underground chamber where water Pokemon are stored, those interested in water Pokemon can come together to plan their infiltration of that area.) People choose roles and change into infiltration clothes - creativity will be allowed here as to what that will look like for people.

3) INFILTRATION PHASE - NIGHT

Infiltration occurs, and people seek out and find large groups of Pokemon available from the Casino in need of rescue, from warehouses, secret rooms, underground chambers, etc. Items can be stolen in this phase, as well. One Pokemon from the group can be chosen per person as an addition to their party - the rest will be sent to nature preserves, etc.

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Old 06-10-2017, 06:22 PM   #60
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Okiku - this is more or less the idea we had been working on that I mentioned earlier. A lot of ideas were scrapped and reworked before coming to this proposal... A lot of brainstorming went into that idea on how to best approach this that can make as many people as happy as possible

And I am 100% behind it, personally.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:10 PM   #61
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I think the event sounds fun. I also support wiping the balance and having an RP event.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:28 PM   #62
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Please tell me we're calling this event Oshawott's 11.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:29 PM   #63
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No, clearly we're the Phantump Thieves of Hearts.
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:29 PM   #64
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@Marion: Ah okay, I'll make sure to hold onto those items then. (I can just see those Fossil Pokemon taunting me because I can't ever get them :P)

While I have been making arguments towards making an RP event work in some way to resolve the removal of coins as a currency, I am merely not opposed to it. I'm more on EAI's side in that a full-blown RP event seems pretty unnecessary, and while it probably would be fun regardless it would take time as opposed to just being over and done with. Also with him on the fact that Pokemon should be part of the sale, whether they are RP'd for or not (which I'd probably RP in some form anyway). If this were for a permanent shop, there would be no real argument for Pokemon being available for purchase, and I'd be against it just as much as everyone else. But as it stands I want the chance to get the full amount of options that were normally available in the CfP, and I'd much rather get through the purchases and put my time back into regular zone adventuring instead of spreading my time between the zones and yet another temporary event adventure.
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:07 AM   #65
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>Marion and Deo

Ok, so me being the derp that I am, here's what I understand of the idea:
  • Coins are (obviously) out the window, and has no value in terms of the event (so no conversion to vouchers or something.
  • The event is a campaign kind of thing, where it has different stages where you search the place out, put all the info together, and then following that info you go to where the Pokémon that you want shows up.
  • From it, you get some CfP items AND one CfP Pokémon.
Am I correct? If so, then I totally love and approve that idea. (I would personally call it Cinccino Royale )


>GM

Hmmmm, I see your point in terms on how an RP uses a lot of time and energy for both updators and updatees, so you think it would be best to just grab what you want and be done with it. I understand it on my side, as I am awfully slow at writing RPed posts, and I would hate to slow everyone down ^^;

That said, in all honesty, I don't mind either way, RP or no RP. RPing would be fun and rewarding but takes time and energy, while "grab 'n' go" would fix the whole problem quickly and efficiently but it has that "getting stuff for free" feel and isn't as fun (even if you do RP your pickup). So I would just go with whatever most people are fine with it
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:10 AM   #66
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I like both ideas in and of themselves, but it seems to me that the RP event would work better as its own thing, separate from the issue of coins, whereas the Coin Voucher idea would make for a quick and easy wrap-up to coins as a whole in FB, which I think is what we're really after here.

Me, I'm all for the Coin Vouchers, insofar as a way to finally close the door on Coins as a currency. This would be quick and easy, simple to do, it'd be over with in no time, boom, and just like that, coins be dead, just like we want. The RP event we're talking about, that has nothing to do with coins beyond the possible rewards lining up with CfP wares, and in my opinion, would make for a very fun and interesting event further down the line, but separate from what we're trying to achieve here. Just my two cents on this.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:18 AM   #67
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>Marion and Deo

Ok, so me being the derp that I am, here's what I understand of the idea:
  • Coins are (obviously) out the window, and has no value in terms of the event (so no conversion to vouchers or something.
  • The event is a campaign kind of thing, where it has different stages where you search the place out, put all the info together, and then following that info you go to where the Pokémon that you want shows up.
  • From it, you get some CfP items AND one CfP Pokémon.
Am I correct? If so, then I totally love and approve that idea. (I would personally call it Cinccino Royale )
This is the gist of it, yes. We've had Cinccino Royale, Oshawott's 11 and Phantump Thieves of Hearts all proposed as possible names - perhaps these could be group names?

MM&GS - I understand the concern that this would be a more drawn-out option than just reimbursement-and-done. This event would definitely take the entire Summer to complete, so there would be writing effort involved that some may prefer to spend in zones. And I get that this was a currency, so spending it is the most reasonable and simple thing to do as far as reimbursement goes. Some could even argue that going the event route instead of the voucher or reimbursement route misses the entire point of the exercise - which is allowing people to receive some one-time compensation for the coins they earned, and then move on to a more roleplay-oriented FB in the future, freed from the old system.

I understand this - but honestly, from my own personal perspective, if we were to do the compensation now and the event later, it would be redundant considering that the event rewards would be CfP rewards. I would far prefer that we wipe balances and run the event - or the second choice - have compensation but then no event.
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:19 PM   #68
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So, I've stated a bunch of times that I liked the idea of an RP event, and this one sounds pretty great! I'm all aboard.
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:26 PM   #69
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Well, I gave my two cents on the matter, though that being said, I am not gonna be stubborn about this. If we end up going for the RP event in place of the coin voucher idea, I'm 100% on board and will happily participate in said event.
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:00 PM   #70
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I'm honestly not a huge fan of what is essentially the coin compensation event (Let's be real, that's what it is) being open to people who've never, and I mean actually never, had coins.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:19 PM   #71
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I have to admit, not only does Ironthunder bring up a good point, but having it only available to people with coins could make those without them feel really left out. It's just another reason why an event celebrating coin removal feels so out of place.
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Old 06-12-2017, 06:40 PM   #72
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Quote:
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I'm honestly not a huge fan of what is essentially the coin compensation event (Let's be real, that's what it is) being open to people who've never, and I mean actually never, had coins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini Spark View Post
I have to admit, not only does Ironthunder bring up a good point, but having it only available to people with coins could make those without them feel really left out. It's just another reason why an event celebrating coin removal feels so out of place.
Take it from an actual newcomer to FB: the event being proposed makes me feel like that one loser who wasn't invited to some rich/popular kid's house party everyone else and their mom's attending. Basically what you're saying is, "not a veteran? No dice." (*Headshot.*)

Also, what of the people who are currently considering returning to FB? Imagine how they would feel if they knew that they had missed an opportunity to put currency to great use before it was made obsolete?
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:50 PM   #73
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Before I continue with my member post I want to state that I and the other mods are going to set up a poll and use that as the final decision-maker. We all have our preference for which road to take but by the end of the day all three of us will be continuing with whatever decision the community makes and we’ll be sticking with it

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That said, my closing statement. I’m restating my opinion from earlier and sticking with it:

No. Forced. RP.

RP is supposed to be fun, free and most importantly; a choice – it should not be turned into a homework assignment which is what this is starting to feel like to me, fun or not. We had the idea of using the CfP as it was and we’re now saying that those interested in using it have to go through some RP campaign first. The RP campaign itself is quirky and cute but it does not belong with the topic of coin expenditure, because the CfP has operated before without RP (yes, an unpopular decision) - and that is what we’re trying to continue with one last time since it’s what coins were connected to.
I still say we should just get this over and done with and allow people to buy the stuff they want - just like how the CfP has operated in the past – and get this over with. And we will encourage people to RP their pickup post but we will not force them to. I don’t want to add another mini-campaign of sorts that unnecessarily detracts attention away from the other zones and prolongs what should have been a quick and easy dealing.

One other thing I want to note, though it is a minor point, is the loss of choice in ‘how’ you obtain the Pokémon. I have to admit that once the option opened up, my head was swimming with potential ideas on how I was going to RP meeting the Pokémon and obtaining it. I had that bit of free choice that I usually don’t get if the Pokémon is obtained from a zone (where the updater decided) or the egg house (where it was always a hatch). While the RP proposal presented sounds like it could be fun, it removes this choice and replaces it for, what I assume to be, something based on Persona. I have nothing against this, but I know very little about Persona and I worry if this might affect my enjoyment of the event. Like I said, it’s a very minor point because FB has usually been very free in rewriting background stories if wanted, and regardless of my knowledge on Persona I think I would still enjoy a short story in that setting. My point is more that I think it would have some merit, in regards to RPing, that we can grant one moment where we do allow the members to decide this for their Pokémon themselves rather than having it from another zone or event.

The last thing I want to note is how the event would be handled. Iron and GS have already touched upon this subject. IF we go the way of forced RP, I would prefer retaining the option that members “purchase” using vouchers but that those who purchase a Pokémon be sent into an event to earn it afterwards. This does not seem to be the case however as it seems that this event is granting even those with incredibly low coin balances the option of gaining a CfP Pokémon, which stands in contrast to what this whole discussion was supposed to be about; how do we handle the old coin balances - not how do we give CfP Pokémon to the community. This event, to me, has almost nothing to do with the discussion we’re supposed to be having and instead is just another give-away event like the Springtime Easter where we’re giving Pokémon away; and considering we have that already I think this idea – it’s theme - should be saved for another day when we need/want such an event, not happening alongside the existing one.
I understand the point that some of these balances were largely unfair because of the old Coin Stacking method (a mechanic older than I’ve been on FB) but not every balance has been based on this, and even then the voucher system was supposed to account for that and severely limit those with insane coin amounts to the point where we’re presenting a (voucher) system where everyone can only purchase 1 Pokémon at most, safe for a few exceptions which I don’t even think will happen.


tl;dr
I still think we should go the way of “purchasing” Pokémon since that is what the CfP was. It is a quick and easy solution that doesn’t unnecessarily draw this out and removes the attention away from the regular zones. As a bonus we’re granting members the freedom to come up with their own ‘meet-and-greet’ storyline and decide the Pokémon’s personality without outside intervention. Nearly everyone has expressed an interest in using RP when picking up a Pokémon anyway - without having to unnecessarily be forced into joining an RP campaign. Creating the event just completely destroys the point of having this discussion, feels out of place for something like the CfP, and above all is just another holiday event we really should be reserving for holidays.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:04 PM   #74
deoxys
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I am going to be blunt.

We have been seriously trying to compromise here. We have really, really been trying to come up with solutions that would leave both parties on both sides of the issue able to say "Alright, we are willing to meet halfway and do this."

I've bent over backwards changing my opinion entirely from what it once was to getting to a point where I was hoping it would be a reasonable enough compromise that people would be able to meet in the middle.

What I am hearing instead is "No, we want what we want, exactly as we wanted it, and we are unwilling to compromise on any level."

The coins were not hard earned. They were the product of years of RNG in a system designed and curated by Tess that was a bad idea from the start. And you know what, again, only speaking for myself here, I probably wouldn't give a damn if it was just items. But we are talking about people turning in some lousy coins, that shouldn't have even ever been a thing, and getting some pretty coveted Pokemon for free.

If we cannot meet halfway, if it has to be "No, I want my side and my side only, no exceptions", then I'm going with nuke the coins at this point, and no RP.

You can't have your cake and eat it too unless you're willing to negotiate and meet in the middle. This is extremely frustrating for me, and most likely some others I have been talking with, though I will not speak for them - because I have honestly worked hard to help come up with a solution that could placate both sides needs. Throwing your hands up and saying 'My way or the highway' is extremely demoralizing.

Last edited by deoxys; 06-12-2017 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Fixed verbiage
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:15 PM   #75
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I'm with deo on this one.

There are folks who may be salty about losing their 'hard earned' jingles, but I'm at the point where I just want them gone. I'm all for tossing out the RP thing and leaving it for some future holiday event, disposing of all FB coins into a giant furnace and leaving it be. If one wished, maybe a little goody bag of trinkets folk can claim, but I wouldn't cry over it if not.

This debate has been as divisive as Brexit. Let's just get on with it and get rid of this controversial subject so we can move onto other topics.
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