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Old 05-16-2017, 04:35 PM   #1
Marion Ette
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Meowth SO Rewards and Updater Reward Beta Feedback

Let's engage in some rewarding conversation. (Heh.)

SO REWARDS

The mods would like to hear the community's ideas regarding an appropriate system for SO rewards. As a jumping-off point, here is the original rewards system, from the BMG branch of old FB:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old SO Rewards
Shop Updates - Please remember that shop updates are expected weekly. If you update a shop that doesn't require a weekly update and choose to update less frequently, please don't expect additional rewards because the job takes longer.

05 points per Bank, Exchange, Candy Store, and Reserve Update with <10 members.
10 points per Bank, Exchange, Candy Store, and Reserve Update with 10-19 members.
15 points per Bank, Exchange, Candy Store, and Reserve Update with 20-29 members.
20 points per Bank, Exchange, Candy Store, and Reserve Update with 30+ members.
05 points per PokéSpa, I.Q, Move Tutor, Salon, Training Centre, and Daycare Update with <10 members.
10 points per PokéSpa, I.Q, Move Tutor, Salon, Training Centre, and Daycare Update with 10-19 members.
15 points per PokéSpa, I.Q, Move Tutor, Salon, Training Centre, and Daycare Update with 20-29 members.
20 points per PokéSpa, I.Q, Move Tutor, Salon, Training Centre, and Daycare Update with 30+ members.
01 point per Boutique Update per member without a sprite included.
10 points per Boutique Update per member with a sprite made by the updater included.
01 point per Poffin baked in the Poketreats Store.
02 points per Pokeblock baked in the Poketreats Store.
01 point per SOAT's direct conversion per member.
02 points per SOAT's riddle, puzzle, or set of questions posted.
02 points per Casino Game updated (Roulette or Slots).
02 points per Booster Pack issued in the Trading Card Palace.

Nothing for Adoption, CfP's, Pokémart, Berry Shop, Base and Real Estate confirmations or for Cable Club cleanouts.
The rewards for these points can be found here.

We also would like feedback on how we should reward exceptional service - for example, Tate's RP posts and handling massive numbers of adoptions coming through the AC. Should this be built into the system, or possibly up to mod/community discretion?


UPDATER REWARDS - BETA

Our original discussion of updater rewards can be found here.

The Staff Rewards Beta Shop is here.

Preliminary feedback will be helpful in determining whether we continue this reward system in the future, as well as possibly adapt it to SO Rewards. How is this new shop working out? Is it clear? Easy to use? How could it be improved? Let us know!
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:55 PM   #2
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Well first thing first: I would think that, for simplicity's sake, should fuse both the updator and SO rewards. No, I'm not saying we should win just as much as them (in fact, I regard updators "higher", so I say, in all technicality, an updator reply is worth more than a SO reply.), what I'm saying is just use the same Fizzy Credits and the same Staff Rewards, just giving them a lower amount per update. Does that sound fair? ^^;

That said, I do think you bring a strong point - I really believe we should reward excellent service, like Tate's both RPing AND larger influx of work.


Before I go with trying to find/give a more concrete suggestion for those rewards (I could work on that on another, later post), I wanna criticize a bit the old SO rewards:

- As much as those "per member" levels a good idea in terms of rewarding a lot of work, Am I the only one who finds the "30+ members" level a bit too much? I don't think we have that many members ^^; I think it would be a good idea to know the amount of active members we have at the moment to get "pulse" of what those "levels" of points it should be.

- I dunno about you, but proportionally, I find those that gets rewarded just 1 point per update is a bit unfair. Sure, it's less than a confirmation for the "bigger" shops, but there is still some work behind it (check if everything is legit.) I would prefer to go with 2 or 3 points compared to the 5 on the bigger shop updates. (Yes, I realise that we may not use those points. I just want to point out in terms of proportions with this old system so in the one we'll be making doesn't go that path either.)

- I understand the "shop updates are expected weekly" bit, until the mention of the shops that doesn't require a weekly update. What is that bull? I'm sorry but I would feel a bit offended that I wouldn't get rewarded just because I didn't update in a week, especially if it's because 1. not everyone uses those shops every week in the first place, so why would SOs be penalized for that? And 2. life happens, and sure it's fair if someone goes on hiatus/disappears into thin air that either the person replacing him/her gets the rewards instead or the shop isn't updated in the best timely matter, but when the main, disappeared person comes back, should he/she be penalized from it and not get a reward from updating again? No. It happens, and even if it is the person's fault (say, a full-on forgetfulness or laziness), they shouldn't be reprimanded when they come back. That's just... people would likely and eventually never want to be an SO again because of the pressure.

- On a positive note, as the Boutique SO, I approve the fact that updates with a included sprite is worth more. I could add though it would be cool to have another, higher "price" whenever it is a custom thing (instead of, say, a recolor), but I don't want to be asking too much ^^;

- I just noticed that there's nothing for anything Adoption, CfP, Pokemart, Base shops, etc. Just... why? As we clearly just saw, Tate has one heck of a job right now. Ok true it's especially because of the whole reboot thing ^^; But it is still a lot of work. I say those shops needs some SO rewards love too!
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:56 AM   #3
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I feel weird suggesting things here, since I am an SO and the AC is a shop used as a prime example, but I might as well, right?

I think we can also do the SO rewards by means of Fizzy Credits. I don't know if we want to place them on the same ladder, or give them their own ladder, but I'm thinking a different ladder, since earning a fraction of a FC just seems like a hassle, whereas earning a full credit on the same ladder as an updator seems unfair to updators.

One issue with SO rewards is that, unlike updating -- which is a pretty uniform job -- different shops require different amounts of work. Some shops are comparable to one another by virtue of volume and structure and can probably be lumped together, but others simply cannot be compared. On top of that, you have jackasses like me confusing the situation by insisting on doing work no one asked them to do, and then asking to be compensated for it. ;P

I think, realistically, different shops will have to be rewarded differently, similar to how the old SO reward system was. However, I don't think any shop should go unrewarded -- that's some bullshit.

As for my 'exceptionalism' -- if I can discuss my own reward here, I don't know how uncouth that is? -- I'd be fine with something like the standard RP fare. You know, $250 if it hits 250 words? If the mods and community are cool with that, I mean. I have a very expensive Luxury Ball habit and it'd be awesome if my job could help me pay for that. :P I don't know if that's asking too much, and I'm sorry if it is, it's just the first thing that came to mind. I know that doesn't answer the broader question of it it should be set in stone or if it should be up to the mods/community, but in a way, I think it does -- this sort of thing can't be predicted because we won't know the ways people will go above-and-beyond, so I think it's better to treat it as a case-by-case basis and just let the community to discuss it when it happens.

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Old 05-18-2017, 08:14 AM   #4
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Honestly, Tate's ideas seem fair to me- If the SO RPs, they get the same amount as a zone reply of the same size would get. Either way, they get an amount of FC dependent on the shop they run (probably decided by the mods)
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:24 AM   #5
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Agreeing. If they're putting out the same amount of RP as an updator, then they deserve similar rewards.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:39 PM   #6
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Mew

Current ladder is decent but with new zones coming in we should probably implement something that can sustain long-term updating and such. Some things personally irk me (mostly wording) so I've changed it up.

Some things from discord discussion:
- shop RP = 1 update imo. especially if it's at the same level of tate's AC.
- updators should probably get a bit of consistent cash from this


Staff Prizes Ladder
  • Updators gain 1 Fizzy Credit per update they give for anyone in their zone. Shop owners gain 1 Fizzy Credit for every week
    they run the shop. If a shop update involves a piece of writing roughly equal to an update, that shop owner earns
    1 credit for every piece of update-level writing.

  • Updators or shop owners who perform particularly challenging feats can be nominated for a 10 Fizzy Credit bonus by
    any credit-earner of the same type (e.g. updators cannot be nominated by shop owners or vice versa). This
    nomination must be seconded by 2 other credit earners, and then approved by a mod.

  • Credits allow you to climb the ladder and receive rewards from it. When you pass a reward tier, you claim the
    rewards within that tier plus an amount of Pokedollars.

  • When you reach 500 FC, you reset back to 0. You rank up on the Updator Echeladder. If you are the first person to reach a rank, you name the new rank.
-\/- 100 Pokedollars Each Step
1 FC = 1 Rare Candy
3 FC = 3 Mysterious Gummis
5 FC = 1 Rare Candy
10 FC = $500 Pokedollars
15 FC = 1 TM Flamethrower, Ice Beam, or Thunderbolt
20 FC = 3 Rare Candies
25 FC = 5 Mysterious Gummis
30 FC = 1 TM of your choice
35 FC = 1 Enigma Egg
40 FC = 5 Rare Candies
45 FC = $500 Pokedollars
50 FC = Shiny or Devolution Spray / free cosmetic from the Boutique
-\/- 250 Pokedollars Each Step
51 FC = 1 Rare Candy
53 FC = 3 Mysterious Gummis
55 FC = 1 Rare Candy
60 FC = $500 Pokedollars
65 FC = 1 TM Flamethrower, Ice Beam, or Thunderbolt
70 FC = 3 Rare Candies
75 FC = 5 Mysterious Gummis
80 FC = 1 TM of your choice
85 FC = 1 Enigma Egg or 5 Rare Candies
90 FC = 5 Rare Candies
95 FC = $500 Pokedollars
100 FC = Shiny or Devolution Spray / free cosmetic from the Boutique
-\/- 250 Pokedollars Each Step
102 FC = 1 Rare Candy
106 FC = 3 Mysterious Gummis
110 FC = 1 Rare Candy
120 FC = $500 Pokedollars
130 FC = 1 TM Flamethrower, Ice Beam, or Thunderbolt
140 FC = 3 Rare Candies
150 FC = 5 Mysterious Gummis
160 FC = 1 TM of your choice
170 FC = 1 Enigma Egg or 5 Rare Candies
180 FC = 5 Rare Candies
190 FC = $500 Pokedollars
200 FC = Shiny or Devolution Spray / free cosmetic from the Boutique
-\/- 350 Pokedollars Each Step
202 FC = 1 Rare Candy
206 FC = 3 Mysterious Gummis
210 FC = 1 Rare Candy
220 FC = $500 Pokedollars
230 FC = 1 TM Flamethrower, Ice Beam, or Thunderbolt
240 FC = 3 Rare Candies
250 FC = 5 Mysterious Gummis
260 FC = 1 TM of your choice
270 FC = 1 Enigma Egg or 5 Rare Candies
280 FC = 5 Rare Candies
290 FC = $500 Pokedollars
300 FC = Shiny or Devolution Spray / free cosmetic from the Boutique
-\/- 350 Pokedollars Each Step
304 FC = 1 Rare Candy
310 FC = 3 Mysterious Gummis
310 FC = 1 Rare Candy
220 FC = $500 Pokedollars
230 FC = 1 1 TM Flamethrower, Ice Beam, or Thunderbolt
240 FC = 3 Rare Candies
250 FC = 5 Mysterious Gummis
260 FC = 1 Custom TM or Enigma Egg
270 FC = 1 Enigma Egg or 5 Rare Candies
280 FC = 5 Rare Candies
290 FC = $500 Pokedollars
450 FC = Shiny or Devolution Spray / free cosmetic from the Boutique
-\/- 500 Pokedollars Each Step
465 FC = 20 Rare Candies
480 FC = 10 Mysterious Gummis
495 FC = 1 Z-Crystal or Mega Stone of your choice
500 FC = Custom Item / Move - You propose an item or move to collect for yourself. Mods must approve of the effects. Be reasonable but do something cool!


Updator Echeladder
Rank 2 - Unnamed
---
Rank 1 - FB Contributors (idk)
- [giant list of everyone who has any amount of FC]



500 FC is subjective but it should be like, the coolest thing you can do in FB. I also considered a Shadow Pokemon or maybe a "summon legendary" item that is mysteriously delivered to your trainer's door that you can only hold one of but it doesn't matter to me.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:31 PM   #7
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:49 AM   #8
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A system for me to break I like it.

Toy is a genius everyone hail Toy.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
- As much as those "per member" levels a good idea in terms of rewarding a lot of work, Am I the only one who finds the "30+ members" level a bit too much? I don't think we have that many members ^^; I think it would be a good idea to know the amount of active members we have at the moment to get "pulse" of what those "levels" of points it should be.
Around 35.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:20 PM   #10
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I'm cool with that and all but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyoyo3131 View Post
shop RP = 1 update imo. especially if it's at the same level of tate's AC.
What about if we DON'T RP? Sometimes we just don't have the time to do that. (Specifically me, who can take WEEKS to make a single RP post. I'm not gonna let people wait for their stuff because I'm a slow RPer.) RPing is still not mandatory in shops, and I'm pretty sure everyone agrees with that. Are we just gonna get nothing from updating, just because we didn't have time to RP?

Also, updates in shops are not created equal. Some needs extra calculations. Some needs extra verification. Some needs other working (like... spriting ^^;). Would they be still given just one FC?
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:35 PM   #11
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You get an FC for running the shop for a week so....?
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:37 PM   #12
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I'm of the opinion that we really should not end up denigrating the value of updaters through shop rewards. A boutique update absolutely should reward only 1 FC. Boutique is a nicety, it's not a necessity. For the game to continue working and functioning on a basic level we need our updaters to update. If we're giving updaters 1 FC per update, then most shops should be at that rate per update too.

If there's a workload which distinctly runs over the level of work going into an update then sure, reward more. For example my personal consideration would be a boutiqued sprite would be equivalent to one update, or one FC. Similarly one of Tate's RP'd AC posts should be worth 1 FC. What should not be worth one FC though is a small line of text updating the calendar or a bank update where only one member has been updated.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
You get an FC for running the shop for a week so....?
Whoops, sorry, I have missed that thing ^^;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor View Post
I'm of the opinion that we really should not end up denigrating the value of updaters through shop rewards. A boutique update absolutely should reward only 1 FC. Boutique is a nicety, it's not a necessity. For the game to continue working and functioning on a basic level we need our updaters to update. If we're giving updaters 1 FC per update, then most shops should be at that rate per update too.

If there's a workload which distinctly runs over the level of work going into an update then sure, reward more. For example my personal consideration would be a boutiqued sprite would be equivalent to one update, or one FC. Similarly one of Tate's RP'd AC posts should be worth 1 FC. What should not be worth one FC though is a small line of text updating the calendar or a bank update where only one member has been updated.
Ok, fair enough. Just to get things straight:

Quote:
update = confirmation for one member (not one post)

1 week = 1 FC (just for running the shop)
1 RP'd update = 1 FC
1 update w/sprite = 1 FC
1 update w/ just a line; No RP or sprite = 0 FC

If I wrote there is correct, here's a few more questions:

- What about when having multiple members updated with no RP or sprite? Would it still count/worth of FCs since there's more than one member updated?

- If I somehow able to both RP AND deliver a sprite, what does that do? Stacks the FCs to get 2 or I still just get 1?


I'm sorry if all that sounds as an attack of sorts, but I'm not ^^; I'm just trying to wrap my head around the system and poke at the flaws I see.
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:55 AM   #14
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Even if its multiple members, if you aren't going to be putting in much effort into your shop post you aren't getting an FC out of it.

In my opinion it would maybe half stack, like to 1.5. I'm not sure though.

Looking for opinions on this and Toy's proposal. I actually think his proposal is super good and would like to set it up permanently now that zones are going up.
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:08 AM   #15
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I love toy' s proposal and am 100% for it.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:24 PM   #16
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Well like I said earlier, Toy's proposal looks good =3=


As for the "half stack", I'm not too sure either, to be honest. On one side, I don't want it to be 2 FC (it feels a bit too much/OP ) but it feels slightly unfair to only get 1 despite the extra work, so 1.5 is the good (literal) halfway compromise. But I have a feeling that 1.5 would be a pain to work with (maybe?) I would've said that one solution would be to double everything (double the FC given, but double the amount of FC needed to climb up a step), so that way instead of a 1.5 it would be just 1... but I find that solution absolutely ridiculous just to "fix" something that will semi-rarely happen ^^; I'll say we try out the 1.5 and see what happens. If we don't like it, we'll figure some other solution.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:25 AM   #17
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I'm also fine with doubling everything -- FC rewards for both Updators and SOs but also increments on the ladders between item rewards -- if it keeps us from having to work in halves. Halves just suck. Let's not do halves.

Having said that, I haven't seen much in the way of objections, and I'm under the impression that no objections = silent approval, frankly. I'd really like to see SO rewards roll out very soon. I hate to be demanding, but the AC is already up to 6 pages and it's gonna be a right pain in my backside to sift through it if it gets too much bigger before SO rewards roll out. ^^;

I think we can call double he numbers and call it good; if people took issue, they'd have spoken up by now, I'd think.
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Old 05-27-2017, 09:20 AM   #18
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Since there isn't any strong objections to this, the new updator and SO rewards system is LIVE. We will be doing half-stacks, its not a big deal.

Any updates made during the trial version will also count for this one. There is no reason to start from 0 again, especially since many of the rewards are similar. However, since you have already collected, you won't get anything until you reach the next step on the ladder.

EDIT: You may, however, claim any difference in rewards. I forgot that.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:36 AM   #19
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So one minor change is to be made to how the calendar operates under the reward system.

1. The calendar is not run by any one specific SO. Any SO is capable of approving/confirming birthday presents.
2. Because of the nature of the approval, and because of the amount of work required for it, approvals in the calendar earn $10 per confirmation rather than an FC.

These changes are to be implemented as of now, but any FC earned so far for the calendar can be kept.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:34 PM   #20
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An edit has been proposed in consideration of event updates which include multiple people, in light of both the CG and the Casino Royale Event:

If a single update encompasses multiple adventurers, it will earn one FC for every 250 words, with the maximum number of FCs earned equal to the number of participants included in the single update.

This is to ensure that people are compensated appropriately for event updates without allowing people to "game the system" as it were.

I believe this is the fairest way to handle event updates (or any updates) encompassing multiple players.
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