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Old 08-16-2017, 01:14 PM   #51
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100% agree with Gary's post in basically every aspect
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Old 08-16-2017, 01:31 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ex-Admiral Insane View Post
Proposal, Changes
1) Exclusivity: The winner of the Ultimate Pokémon Competition may be the only one to own the Pokémon in question for one full year (until the next UPC winner has been elected). After this year, the owner may freely breed the UPC Pokémon and hand-out the offspring to whomever they want. The offspring themselves cannot breed. In this way, the owner still retains the decision on the exclusivity of the UPC Pokémon.
2) Zone Encounters: UPC Pokémon winners may be encountered in zones and may be captured. An encounter (and capture) in a zone requires the approval of three people: the zone updater, the adventurer and the original creator of the UPC Pokémon. In this way, only those who freely want to be able to encounter UPC Pokémon will have that option. UPC Pokémon caught this way cannot breed. (See poll-question #3 below)
3) New Gen Movesets: the mods will do their best to have the UPC occurring after the release of a new generation/game allow for old winners to update their Pokémon’s movesets. New movesets will require mod approval first though.
4) New stats: In a similar vein, some generations might add new mechanics to Pokémon such as when Hidden Abilities were introduced. Just like with movesets, creators will be given an opportunity during the next UPC to write out the status of this mechanic for their Pokémon. Note: Not all new mechanics such as Mega Evolutions or Fairy-typing will be made as available changes to old UPC winners.
5) Pinaclsaur: Pinaclsaur will not be made an official UPC Pokémon. Freely giving out official statuses to Pokémon people like will diminish the value of the UPC.
6) Rule 4 will be scrapped: No (pre-)evolutions of existing Pokémon may be made. This was never much of a problem in past iterations of UPC but it may become a problem in the future with the increasing complexity and unpredictability of GameFreak’s pseudo-designs such as Mega Evolutions, Alola Forms and (pre-)evolutions of already existing Pokémon.
7) Alternative forms: Similarly, no alternative form of a different Pokémon may be entered (such as Alola-form) as those will be kept for a potentially, different competition. You may also not provide an alternative form of your own UPC Pokémon alongside the original UPC entry and split-evolutions will be forbidden for the time being.
Rule 9 will stay intact: Please also provide a short description/comparison of your Pokémon to other Pokémon so everyone knows its strengths.
9) Voting will always be done in private and no polls will be publicized in order to avoid “strategic voting”. You are meant to vote for the UPC Pokémon you like the best, not the winner you hate the least.

Poll/Questions
1) Are the changes, as presented, acceptable?
2) Do you want to make any other changes or additions to the old rules?
3) How do you want to handle zone captures/encounters of UPC Pokémon? There are currently three options (though you can come up with others if you have a great idea):
A) They can be encountered in the existing zones we have.
B) We create a zone where UPC Pokémon can be caught.
C) We have both.

Please provide a full response
1: My opinions on the proposed changes are as follows;
Change #1: Yes to it all, with the exception of rendering the offspring unbreedable. I think that the UPC winner in question should be able to stipulate whether the offspring is breedable or not, possibly indicate this at time of winning. Some of us may want to keep the winning entry all to ourselves. Some of us might be all for some limited distribution. But some of us may just want to see their creation spread as far across FB as the community may desire.

Change #2: This sounds fair enough to me- makes sense for those three people to all have to be unanimous in such a decision. That way, those who don't want to encounter UPCmons don't have to, those who want to keep their creations to themselves still retain that right, and updators who don't want to mess around with any of this are free to not do so.

Change #3: Makes sense, sounds fair.

Change #4: Makes sense, sounds fair.

Change #5: Obviously. If people want Pinaclsaur to win, it's got to earn that victory like any other UPCmon.

Change #6: Speaking as the guy who once entered a Poison Eeveelution, naturally I'm a bit iffy on this rule. On the other hand, speaking as the guy whose aforementioned Poison Eeveelution got no votes whatsoever, I say, sure.

Change #7: I suppose it makes sense. No objection.

Change #8: Makes sense, sounds fair.

Change #9: I'm cool with this.

2: None come to mind. I'll edit this post if I think of anything.

3: I vote C, as long as Change #2 is in place for the official zones, so as to ensure that UPC mons are accessible for those who want them to be, and inaccessible for those who don't.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:30 PM   #53
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Personally I'm against UPCmon appearing in Zones period, but I'm all for breedability. I think making it so only the parent can breed is fair (with perhaps some exception to the rules regarding gender mechanics).
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:26 AM   #54
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I am just going to say that I am vehemently against UPC appearing in any zones. For starters, I don't think they are the slightest bit necessary to FB, but that aside, since they already exist, they should belong solely to the individuals who thought them up and won them in the past contests. I have absolutely zero intentions of them ever showing up in the CG, obtainable or not. Additionally, I feel that they should 100% be unbreedable.

While I'm going to try and respect people's wishes to have fakemon in their own personal stories, I would like in turn that those people respect the wishes of others like myself to have a Pokemon roleplay experience with as few deviations to the canon Pokemon universe as possible.

My final point is that I think there are things we should be looking into instead of fakemon right now, such as, making better/more opportunities for people to level up their Pokemon.
This! I couldn't have said it better myself. I completely agree with all of this.
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Old 08-18-2017, 09:42 AM   #55
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I wouldn't like seeing them appear in zones but I would be fine with them being breedable, but the offspring must be sterile, meaning the original owner is the only one that can breed them. That should stop every man and his Growlithe owning one.
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Old 08-18-2017, 03:56 PM   #56
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I am also against them appearing in zones, but am accepting of them being breedable, at least in terms of the original specimen.
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:10 PM   #57
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Right, so with 'mon having a strict breed limit I'm perfectly fine with that being a thing, however I must state that any and all UPC 'mon, whether the parents or the offspring, should be untradable. If you want the UPC 'mon, you have to use one of your personal breeding slots and one of your own 'mon as the other parent, end of story. And as for the children being sterile... I'm for the idea of allowing them as breeding partners so long as the egg produced would not hatch said UPC 'mon. In other words, having a male UPC 'mon breed with a female non-UPC 'mon is fine. Having a female UPC 'mon breed with a male non-UPC 'mon and a Macho Incense involved is also fine. Anything else is a no-go.

I also heavily agree that giving them out in zones in any capacity is a huge no.

Beyond all that, I'd like to bring up the point that was mentioned some time ago. Anonymous submissions. People should be voting on the Pokemon they like most, yes, and anonymous voting does help with this a bit, but by having the name of the creator attached directly to the Pokemon it does skew things a bit as far as that goes. I think anonymous submissions best handles this. As per usual we have the issue of art giving away who the owner might be and swaying some votes, but if people want to draw their own art or commission someone like Daisy that's their own choice.
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Old 08-18-2017, 04:50 PM   #58
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Personal (and likely unpopular) opinion: Scrap the whole thing, wipe the records and leave CAP back in Tess!Fizzby.
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:05 PM   #59
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I'm of the opinion that availability of UPC mons should be up to the winners. I would personally be fine with a potential winner of mine essentially being just another Pokémon. I mean, discovering a new species for only one person ever to own just doesn't sit right with me. If a ZA doesn't want it in their zone period, okay, but at the very least, any FFA Zones should be fair game so long as updator, adventurer, and winner are fine with it. As for breeding them, that should be entirely up to the winner.
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:19 PM   #60
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In complete agreement with Heather on this.
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Old 08-19-2017, 03:41 PM   #61
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UPC: I think once a year is fine. I'm not opposed to more frequent. There's nothing to "keep" at once every two years, it was once a year to begin with. I'm a pretty outspoken proponent of allowing people to "release" their UPCmons to the public, in all envisionable senses. (Allowing for breeding; allowing for zone encounters of wild UPCmons; allowing for Egg House hatches; etc.) As far as the past goes, I would say it's politest to honor the exclusivity of the Pokémon. Only make it publicly accessible if the person is around to give you the go-ahead. As far as the future goes, we have the power to make it a program policy that "All winning entries will be submitted to the public pool," etc, etc. Updating past entries to catch up to the present is without a doubt the trickiest question -- my heart says "YES", emphatically, but my mind questions if there wouldn't be problems with this. Current inclination is a modestly strong "Yes" vote.
This hasn't really changed.

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I must state that any and all UPC 'mon, whether the parents or the offspring, should be untradable.
Before I can respond to this, I have to ask if the Breeding Center's rules have been changed. In the past, iirc, the rules were that you could only breed once per specimen. (For example, if I have my female Chikorita Celes, she can only breed once in her lifetime.) Some of the replies I have read in this newest round of discussion have led me to wonder if this rule has been changed. I'd need to know before I can better reply to the suggestion that offspring be untradeable.

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I'm of the opinion that availability of UPC mons should be up to the winners.
This is honestly the best answer in the discussion. I know we all want simple solutions, but being perfectly honest here: this is the simplest solution to implement in this case! Any other solution, you're going to be stepping on lots of toes. And/or having to make needlessly complicated blanket rules. It strikes me as simplest of all to just ... ask the UPC winner a small set of questions, and based on their answers to those questions you roll from there:

Q1. Can anyone else have this Pokémon beside you?
Q2. Can wild ones of your UPC winner appear in the wild in zones?
Q3. Can wild ones of your UPC winner appear in the wild for capture by other trainers?
Q4. Can trained ones of your UPC winner appear under the ownership of NPCs in zones?
Q5. Can the offspring of your UPC winner, if any, be bred to produce yet further copies of your UPC winner?

Five questions. You could add a couple more, but these five address most of the complaints I'm seeing from the UPC winner side of things. Until and unless you get the answers to these questions from the winners, you assume the answers are "No" and leave it at that.

As for the anti-fakemon side of things, my proposal is even simpler: make clear to your updater, via your member profile post, that you are not a fan of fakemons and/or that you do not want fakemons to appear in your zone adventures. That simple. Updater looks at your post. Updater sees your clause. Updater refrains from introducing these Pokémon to your story. Done.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:05 PM   #62
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Before I can respond to this, I have to ask if the Breeding Center's rules have been changed. In the past, iirc, the rules were that you could only breed once per specimen. (For example, if I have my female Chikorita Celes, she can only breed once in her lifetime.) Some of the replies I have read in this newest round of discussion have led me to wonder if this rule has been changed. I'd need to know before I can better reply to the suggestion that offspring be untradeable.
You can breed a Pokemon twice per calendar year now.

Quote:
As for the anti-fakemon side of things, my proposal is even simpler: make clear to your updater, via your member profile post, that you are not a fan of fakemons and/or that you do not want fakemons to appear in your zone adventures. That simple. Updater looks at your post. Updater sees your clause. Updater refrains from introducing these Pokémon to your story. Done.
I would argue that "no fakemon" should be the default, and you'd have to put something about being okay with fakemon in your member post in order for them to appear in zones, but other than that, I agree. Let the UPC winner say whether they can be found in zones/bred, and then let people that want them to appear make that clear in their member post. Updators are then free to use them in adventures for the members that want them, if the updator wants. If the updator doesn't want to write fakemon into the adventure, they don't have to. But let people that want it and updators that are willing to do so use fakemon with the winner's permission.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:16 PM   #63
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I would argue that "no fakemon" should be the default, and you'd have to put something about being okay with fakemon in your member post in order for them to appear in zones, but other than that, I agree. Let the UPC winner say whether they can be found in zones/bred, and then let people that want them to appear make that clear in their member post. Updators are then free to use them in adventures for the members that want them, if the updator wants. If the updator doesn't want to write fakemon into the adventure, they don't have to. But let people that want it and updators that are willing to do so use fakemon with the winner's permission.
I agree with this basically 100%, although personally I don't feel it makes much of a difference whether you have to specify pro-UPC or anti-UPC. I'm of the opinion that the winner of UPC should be the one that gets to decide as well. That's by far the fairest option that simply allows everyone to enjoy the game as they see fit.

Quote:
Beyond all that, I'd like to bring up the point that was mentioned some time ago. Anonymous submissions. People should be voting on the Pokemon they like most, yes, and anonymous voting does help with this a bit, but by having the name of the creator attached directly to the Pokemon it does skew things a bit as far as that goes. I think anonymous submissions best handles this. As per usual we have the issue of art giving away who the owner might be and swaying some votes, but if people want to draw their own art or commission someone like Daisy that's their own choice.
I agree with both anonymous voting and submissions as well. In addition, we have considered hiring an artist or two to allow everyone to have consistent art, but this obviously is something not quite in the works yet.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:22 PM   #64
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As stated in Discord, the agreed-upon compromise SEEMS to be thus:

-UPC will happen this year.
-Voting will be done via PM and kept anonymous.
-UPC 'mon will NOT be available as zone captures, but can appear in zones as part of adventures at the creator's discretion and at ZA/ZU discretion.
-UPC 'mon are not tradeable and cannot be put in the AC (they can, however, be released).
-Previous UPC winners can update their Pokemon to current Gen mechanics, but changes have to be approved by community vote.

And suggested rule:
-UPC 'mon will be breedable, but the resulting offspring will be sterile. The original owner has the right to refuse breeding of UPCs and this MUST be respected.

Feedback is appreciated.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:24 PM   #65
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I think that's a fair compromise at this point. If the winner wants to share their Pokemon, they should have a way to do so. Am also agreeing on that there should be ways for them ot be updated based on current generations in terms of level-up pool and so forth.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:26 PM   #66
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I think that's a fair compromise at this point. If the winner wants to share their Pokemon, they should have a way to do so. Am also agreeing on that there should be ways for them ot be updated based on current generations in terms of level-up pool and so forth.
Ah, yes, right. Editing that in.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:27 PM   #67
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Again, I'm against resulting offspring being completely sterile as it kills people's ability to RP, however I am perfectly okay with preventing them from further breeding said UPC 'mon. This is easily enough explained away.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:31 PM   #68
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Again, I'm against resulting offspring being completely sterile as it kills people's ability to RP, however I am perfectly okay with preventing them from further breeding said UPC 'mon. This is easily enough explained away.
Hm. We could, perhaps, amend the rule to allow for offspring to breed but said breeding does not result in further UPC mon.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:55 PM   #69
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My personal opinion on the breedability of UPCmons and their offspring is that it should be entirely up to the UPC winner. They'd get to decide whether the original is breedable, and if so, to what degree the offspring can be bred, whether A: not at all, B: only if it'd result in non-UPC offspring, or C: no restrictions. I feel like that's something they ought to have a say in, personally. I mean, if we're making UPCmons untradeable anyway, and obviously both members involved in Pokémon breeding have to agree on what's being bred and who gets the offspring, then the UPCmon would still remain exclusively among those who embrace them as a part of FB. Just my opinion. Other than that, I see no issue with the proposed rules.

Probably stupid question, but just wanted to clarify now rather than have it come up later- the no-trading rule, I assume, would allow for a temporary trade for evolution purposes, yes?
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:54 PM   #70
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>UPC
so I believe I'm in the minority for this, but I'd like to give my two cents. I'm completely fine with UPCs running amok in FB zones, both old and any special one for UPC only. To me, it's another symbol of the creativity of this community for all of us. I understand how some people would like to stick as close to the canon as possible, but the thing is is that Pokemon is always evolving, to the point where there are those of us that feel comfortable in the ability that we can create these creatures that would very much fit in the world. And UPC is one of the things that makes me most excited about FB, it's something that is unique to the Pokemon RPing experience in my honest opinion. At the very least, I'd be happy if they appeared in zones, even if they aren't capturable.

That being said, I am with MM on the consensus that the owner should at least be allowed to say whether or not this species is breedable beyond the original one. I personally see no problem with it, but I understand with those that do. Basically, I guess my consensus is, the creator has full control over the availability of those Pokemon, and it's up to both the updator and the updatee to establish whether they want those mons to appear.
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Old 08-20-2017, 11:13 PM   #71
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Sorry for being late to this party ^^; Here's my personal stance on the matter:

General thoughts
I am personally not liking the idea of having fakemon in FB as I lean more on the "stuff should be canon" side, however, my beliefs in terms of FB in general is that everyone is allowed to be as artistic and free as they want in their RPing. Since Fakemon/UPC is in support with that creativity and freedom, not allowing UPC at all would go against the core ideas that FB is in my opinion. I find since UPC will be still a thing but will be restricted in some way is a good balance between my personal preferences and my "vision" of FB.

UPC contest itself:
  • Yay for keeping it as a contest! As mentioned a bit above, the fact that there's only one species of UPC that comes out of it will restrict on the use of them while still be able to have some.
  • Anonymous voting, yes please. Voting in public is wrong for many reasons that would screw up with the more honest results.

UPC themselves:
I'm with MM in terms of breeding, that is that is up to the winner/UPC creator to decide the breedability of it (can't at all, only original can, only original and offsprings, only original and captured, all can breed).

As for the use of UPCs in zones, I say that depends of the situation:
  • UPC owner using them in zones: As some updaters are not comfortable with writing with a UPC, I say that it should be discussed in advance between updater and UPC owner if it's ok to use it in the zone.
  • Updater using UPC in adventure: This should go in a step-by-step thing, I find:
    1. The winner should be ok for the UPC to be used in an adventure. I would say this should be stated the moment the UPC is won, but I can imagine that the winner may prefer to choose by a case-by-case situation (so perhaps that the winner can answer between "yes", "no", "by request only")
    2. Just as updaters, some fellow players do not feel comfortable with UPCs. Therefore, after getting approval by the UPC winner to use it, the updater has to ask permission to the player to have it appear.
    For capturing them though... that's a toughie. I would say in a similar fashion above, first the UPC winner gets to decide whenever their pokémon is can be captured in a zone or not (they could give their answer right away as soon as they win, too, that way it'll be less troublesome for the updaters to ask and wait for the answer). If that's a thumbs up, then the updater themselves should decide if it should be capturable or not for the adventure, and if that's also a thumbs up, then it should have the updatee's consent too.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:34 PM   #72
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Okay since TPCi are dicks and apparantly confirmed that Type: Null and Silvally are legendary Pokemon, I wanted to bring them up here. Since I assume that most of us would've treated them as ultra rare Pokemon akin to Porygon or Lapras, what do we do with them, since I k ow quite a few people want one. Do we just lump them in with legendary Pokemon and call it a day, despite Silvally being specifically obtained via friendship evolution, do we decide to class then as uktra rare pseudo legends? Since this was something that came out of left field for me personally, I thought oy was worthy to bring up.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:04 PM   #73
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Wouldn't be right to just lump them in with other legendaries, seeing as the line was explicitly meant to be own by humans, especially considering the evolution method. I would say treat them more along the lines of ultra rare Pokémon along the lines of Porygon, personally.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:06 PM   #74
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Basically what MM said, really.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:24 PM   #75
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A little nitpicky but Mewtwo was also explicitly meant to be owned by humans lol. Personally I see Type:Null in the same light as I see Porygon, but on the other hand it is also a "one of a kind" Pokemon since it was created through experiments in a lab. It's an odd Pokemon because there's literally nothing natural about it, but I would be okay with it being a super ultra rare Pokemon.
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