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Old 06-05-2017, 02:22 PM   #26
Missingno. Master
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Devolution has been a thing in Pokémon, albeit not necessarily in every canon. Hell, the first instance of devolution was the Devolution Spray card in the TCG, hence the FB item. It's an unusual concept for those of us who mainly just follow the games and/or anime, but the concept isn't unheard of. I myself plan to get a Devolution Spray for my Umbreon if a Poison-type Eeveelution is ever made, and I also am considering two more so as to be able to evolve my Weedle, teach her all the Beedrill-exclusive moves like Pin Missile, Twineedle, and Fury Attack, and turn her back to a Weedle.
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Old 06-05-2017, 04:45 PM   #27
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Ok! Let's get a little bit of triage here and put things what (I believe) needs to be discussed now, with updates done in bold, and things in orangy-red that needs some opinionated love:

Recoloring:
  • Everyone agrees that the "shiny rule" should be relaxed compared to back in the day. Also everyone agrees that it should go on my own judgement (eep) and if my judgement doesn't work out, things can be redone (ie go back and take away my original choice/judgement and that it doesn't affect the person moneywise if applicable.)
  • Natural Spray to reset all modifications done in the store (recolors, special characteristics, height, etc.) is in.
  • Devolution Spray is still in debate. Some prefers nuking it into the sun, some prefers making it staff exclusive, some (?) wants it accessible at a high price.
  • The availability of the Shiny Spray is still up to debate. Some would prefer to keep the Shiny spray as a Staff exclusive, others wants to have it accessible here for a high price.

Special Characteristics:
  • Everyone seems to agree that rules on birthmarks and scars are outta here. no more time limit, no more "Pichu looking like an Elekid", no more scars only from campaigns.
  • General consensus goes towards being more accepting to physical deformities, as long as it's within the realm of IRL natural things, doesn't give an advantage to the Pokémon, and is not painful for the Pokémon.
  • Furfrou trims should cost something but are permanent; No more visiting every 2 weeks to keep a trim up.
  • Auras seem to have a general "accepting shrug", so yeah, let's throw that in.
  • Tints should simply be part of the recoloring (as a sidenote).
  • The debate about the flexibility of height changes is still ongoing. Some wants to go beyond the current limit (x1.5 or x0.5 the normal Pokémon height), but others finds that going beyond those numbers would be too much. My proposed "in-between" solution is immediately accept height changes with the old rules, no accepting things that goes beyond x3 or x0.25, but for anything between those limits, that is up to my judgement call to say if they're ok or not. It also has been suggested to have absolutely no limits, but to make it more expensive as the size increase/decrease.

Accessories and stuff:
  • Custom accessories are here to stay.
  • Mega accessories are also here to stay.
  • Official accessories will not be sold as Contests hasn't been implemented, but if ever they do, they will be sold here.
  • Custom Z-accessories will also be made/sold here.

Economy:
  • Coins are looking to be out the window throughout FB anyways, so no need for debate on that point: Pokédollars all the way.
  • I feel debating on the matter of the price of everything is needed:
    • Recolors & Special Characteristics: Free or not? If not free, at what price? (Suggested prices so far: 100$ for Furfrou Trims, $200 for recolors and tints, and 300$ for Birthmarks, scars, deformities, size alternations (possibility of increasing price depending on size) and auras.)
    • Should the previous prices of custom items (accessories (10$), Pokédex (10$), Key Stone (20$) and Mega Stone (50$) accessories) be the same, or should it be adjusted?
    • Price of the Natural Spray? (Suggested so far: 100$)
    • If we do sell it, price of the Shiny Spray? (suggested so far: 30,000$)


Please note that I've been (slowly) writing a first post, since things have settled down just enough to start writing stuff. I'll just edit things out as we settle down on everything before actually posting XP
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:32 PM   #28
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Okay quick thoughts.

Shiny/Devo Spray: Thia debate doesn't coincide with opening the shop imo. These can be discussed after opening and so forth.

Prices: Keep the prices from the last version of the Boutique. Imo there is no need to make recolors cost anything, they were free in the past and should be free now.

Besides that everything looks good.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:35 PM   #29
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I agree with Lit - discussion about devolution and shiny spray should continue after the shop is open. Since pretty much everything else is just about good to go, there's no reason for these two extremely controversial items to hold back the shop from opening. Instead, open without them, and their fate can be decided after the fact.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:49 PM   #30
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And now here goes for my opinion! I wanted to keep it on a separate post as the questions/points of debate to keep that as neutral as possible ^^;


>Devolution Spray
After some self-debate, I believe that, at minimum, the Devolution Spray doesn't belong to the boutique and shouldn't be accessible by everyone. If it's accessible, it should be a very expensive staff-exclusive item, equal if not more than the shiny spray. But as I have seen it discussed in Discord, having the Devolution Spray present itself is another can of worms in terms of the allowed moves a Pokémon can have (An Eevee with all the moves from every Eeveeolution, anyone?), so why not just not allow the Devolution Spray? Either way, I find that it should be at least restricted or at its most extreme nonexistant.

>Shiny Spray
Although there's big chances that I will never use it (I'm typically not that keen of the shiny colors), I'm on the side that Shiny Spray should be accessible for everyone but being uber expensive for non-staff members. Yes, shinys are considered a rare thing and "precious", but I see it as just a "special, exclusive cosmetic" thing, so I don't see why it should be something decided only by pure luck for everyone. (It's the casino all over again...)

All that said, I agree with Lit and Deo there: There's no need to have those two sprays holding us off to open the Boutique! We could make a thread(s?) for them later, or just continue to discuss them here; whatever floats everyone's boats XP


>Resizing
To be honest I am still debating internally about it, but I am leaning more on simply keeping the old rules, that is maximum half or 1.5 the normal size, because anything further more than that is ridiculous "natural"-wise. But then again, recoloring is completely unnatural, so... XP I dunno. I think I will be accepting with a hybrid between my compromise idea and EAI's: make the size adjustment free when it's half or 1.5 the normal size, but be at a price if it's further than that (I'll put more details of that in the economy talk below/later.)


>Pricing

>>Recolors & Special Characteristics
I'm in the similar boat as Lit: I would prefer to keep as close as possible to the old prices of the Boutique. Recolors, tints, birthmarks/scars/deformities, resizing and auras should stay free.

The only thing that I wouldn't mind putting a price on is the resizing when it's beyond the previous x0.5/x1.5 rule. I think of something along side of this:
  • Up to half/0.5x or 1.5x the normal size: Free
  • For every ÷2 to the minimum limit or +0.5 of the maximum limit: +100$ (ex: 100$ for quarter/0.25x or double/2x normal size, 200$ for eighth/0.125 or 2.5x, etc.)
And obviously there's the price of the Furfrou trim, that has been agreed that it should be a paid, permanent thing. I think the 100$ suggested by EAI is very fair.


>>Custom items
As much as I agree of keeping what was free free, I DO gotta agree with EAI in terms of adjusting the prices of what already has prices. 50$ isn't much, now that an RP post gives you an automatic 250$! I would think that 100$ for custom items (that is the Pokédex, Key Stone, Mega Stone and Z accessories) is fair: More than 10-50$, but is still far from breaking the bank for something that only has cosmetic use.


>>Natural Spray
I would stick to EAI's 100$. I thought of bumping it up to 200$, but meh, I'm sure not a lot of people will use it anyways.


>>Shiny Spray
If we do end up selling it here, I would stick to the previously-mentioned 30,000$. Crazy-expensive as it should, so it's easier for an updater or SO to get one quicker. I remember someone mentioning on Discord in the past that 6,000$ would also be fair, but I dunno, it feels a bit low for me (considering the calculations I made previously)
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:58 PM   #31
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I would prefer bumping down custom accessories to $25. I liked that they were $10 before and I don't like the idea of being limited to 5 accessories per reply.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:22 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Lil'twick View Post
I would prefer bumping down custom accessories to $25. I liked that they were $10 before and I don't like the idea of being limited to 5 accessories per reply.
Can you add more details on what you mean though? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I would think you meant keep the 10$ for custom/non-official accessories (as in, to dress up) and put all the prices of the custom items (pokédex, mega accessories, Z-accessory) as 25$, but I'm not sure
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkikuMew View Post
Can you add more details on what you mean though? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I would think you meant keep the 10$ for custom/non-official accessories (as in, to dress up) and put all the prices of the custom items (pokédex, mega accessories, Z-accessory) as 25$, but I'm not sure
I would prefer to keep them at $10 yes. I read your big post that they would be 50 now instead of 10 o-o. I feel 50 works better for custom items, not too expensive but not super cheap either. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:43 PM   #34
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I would prefer to keep them at $10 yes. I read your big post that they would be 50 now instead of 10 o-o. I feel 50 works better for custom items, not too expensive but not super cheap either. Sorry for the confusion.
Oooooooh ok! Well what I meant was to put all customed items (whenever accessories or key items like the Pokédex) to be at 100$ for all, but I believe I see what you're getting there in terms of having the non-official accessories cheaper. Well I think it is fair enough I think sticking to 10$ for the non-official accessories will be good, while actual items being customized should be 50$ each.



So a couple of points/updates:
  1. First post of the new Boutique is in the works! I believe I got a good chunk of the RPed intro done, sooo I just gonna need to do the rest! Dam I write slow OTL
  2. While writing said post, I had a realization: Lilblue/Yuki used to co-"own" the Boutique with me! I then felt bad that I was going around here doing all this stuff while she had no input whatsoever. So I asked her if it's cool I take it by myself, and she says it's cool So no worries on that front! (Anyways if ever she feels of coming back to help, she's more than welcomed to ^^)
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:12 AM   #35
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...and I also am considering two more so as to be able to evolve my Weedle, teach her all the Beedrill-exclusive moves like Pin Missile, Twineedle, and Fury Attack, and turn her back to a Weedle.
Are you sure you want to do something else you deliberately made a bad idea for yourself so soon after the Final Stewie-Line has started?

In all seriousness, I am in full support of having the RP-only accessories be on the cheap end. I took to long getting Louise her hoodie and Berue her witch's hat, and I *really* don't want to suffer for that mistake now that I can actually incorporate getting them into the current RP batch.

'Official' accesories definitel should be higher up in price, but not unmanageably so. This feature is going to be used for the Mega and Z equipment, which (with a few exceptions) already took a fair amount of work to get the first part for- adding a huge monetary strain on top of that would greatly reduce the epicness of getting access to Mega Loppunny or Pulverizing Pancake. $50 seems like a fair price, though I won't personally object as long as they are less than $201 apiece. I think it would be neat to have Chroma line her hat with currently-not-in-use Z-Crystals, though.

Similarly, I'm also on board with recolors being free. In a lot of cases, an individual pokemon is remembered because of their unique color scheme, and putting a monetary amount on that creative venue reduces the diversity in the game as a whole (especially among already common pokemon like houndour, shuppet, and numel).

And that's about all I have to say, and my thoughts on why I said them. Maybe that makes me sound a bit on the selfish side, but hey- I am a human. That gives me some leeway, right?
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:15 AM   #36
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Are you sure you want to do something else you deliberately made a bad idea for yourself so soon after the Final Stewie-Line has started?
The Beedrill that the ghost was referring to was Melittin, who I hadn't yet hatched at the time Salazar's color change went into effect. Once he evolved from Kakuna, it triggered a storyline in which Salazar battled the ghost, culminating in his evolution into Whirlipede. It's among the earlier pages of my Secret Base. Hermione evolving temporarily wouldn't have any negative consequences.
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:04 AM   #37
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Ok, so it came to my attention through Emi that the new concept of auras hasn't been discussed enough, or at least that not a lot of people were paying attention to that point as it wasn't as important (or perhaps the Boutique itself ^^; ) Here's a copy/paste of what I wrote on the first post here:

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Originally Posted by OkikuMew View Post
Auras: That's something that made way through PMs, but didn't have time to be applied before this whole shabang happened :P In short, auras (as in a glow around the Pokémon's body) would've been a new kind of special characteristic that had certain rules, including justification (similar to scars), color (one only, no gradients or change of color), permanency (intensity can be changed whenever, but cannot be turned off), and no shadow Pokémon imitation (can have a dark aura like a shadow Pokémon, but can't have a recolor like one along with it). I think this is fine, although the colors and permanency can be changed.

And here's what I have written about it, in terms of the in-the-works Rules Post:

Quote:
Special Characteristics Registration

General Rules:
  • All special characteristics requires a justification/origin related to it. No need of an essay – just a short summary will do!
  • You can put as many characteristics as you want at any time (ex.: Add one scar then add another later), as long as it does not overwrite an already registered characteristic (ex.: After setting an altered height/size, you cannot set a new one after.)
    • If you want to replace a characteristic, you need to use a Natural Spray to remove the old one before adding the new one.
  • The special characteristics must not give any advantage over a Pokémon who doesn't have any special characteristics.
  • Confirmation must be given on this thread before the characteristic goes into effect.
  • A sprite with the new special characteristics can be made; however, there is no guarantee that it will.

[...]

Auras ($0): A glow of any color around a Pokémon's body.
  • The intensity of the aura is at the owner's discretion.
  • The aura's color is fixed; you can only change its color by replacing it.
  • If a Pokémon is recolored similarly to a Shadow Pokémon, the aura cannot be of a dark color.

So what I'm looking for out of all this is:
  • Is the general concept of auras are acceptable?
  • Are the presented rules related to auras are fair/acceptable?
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Old 06-14-2017, 01:38 AM   #38
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So feeling on auras in general is that they're obviously not really detrimental but to me they feel really out of place and just unnecessary.
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:16 AM   #39
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Honestly, auras are a thing I've referenced with Sera (Gardevoir) using her powers to detect emotions, though they haven't been used for anything significant, it's mostly for flavor and is usually variable depending on the mood of the target in question. I wouldn't mind if auras become a real thing, though I've also been okay without them.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:27 AM   #40
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Auras I'm on the fence about.

See, with me there's the thing that not every mon can have an aura. To me, auras would really be suitable only on pokemon with a strong spiritual connection or psychic field, or pokemon with incredible power that the air around them shimmers with energy. This would only complicate things and I feel we'd be better off without auras.

That being said, however, surely it wouldn't be hard for the boutique to make luminescence a thing with an accessory?
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:57 AM   #41
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Honestly, I don't think Auras should really be a thing. I struggle to see how it affects anything, and from what I remember, there's only like five Pokemon that can see auras so it's basically an invisible thing. Or you mon walks everywhere glowing like it's radioactive. Is there any real need for them? I think not.

Also then we get into the arguments of 'only living things have auras so what about artificial things like Porygon' and screw philosophy.
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Old 06-14-2017, 01:31 PM   #42
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I don't have any attachments to auras, and it won't break my heart to not have them.

Having said that, I don't see what they hurt. I'd rather we not start policing peoples' harmless fun.

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Old 06-14-2017, 02:37 PM   #43
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It's just a game. You're not attaching rocket launchers to your Pokémon's arms for Zone advantages, so what's the big deal? Let people have their fun and their auras, why the heck not. It's not a popular idea to begin with so most people just won't use them anyway, right? That's my two cents on the matter.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:12 PM   #44
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As for my personal say, I'm pretty much second-ing Maskerade's thoughts. I personally don't see the use of aura/glow for myself, but it isn't hurting anyone as it clearly states that it does not give any advantage whatsoever. So Wynaut? The Boutique is all about making your Pokémon unique in a creative way, so I don't see why it we should turn it down.

Small sidenote: Although the color of the aura is fixed, the intensity can vary for whenever you want for creative use of said aura in terms of RP. Also, here's some examples how I can see the aura being used (including with intensity):
  • Appears or grows in intensity when using certain abilities/attacks
  • Can change intensity depending on Pokémon's mood
    • I had thought that the rule of the colors could be changed also at any time so someone could turn the aura into basically a mood ring (that is, color changes depending on Pokémon's mood), but I dunno why, I don't feel 100% comfortable with that... maybe it's because I'm making a parallel with recolors that does not change on a whim.)
  • Appears when holding an item
  • Related to the backstory of the Pokémon (ex.: has been experimented on, radioactivity, ate a glow-stick at a young age, etc)
  • Appears for a few seconds after released from Pokéball
    • Alternative/complimenting of the sparkling effects of shiny Pokémon
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:27 PM   #45
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Sorry for the double post, but I just thought of another tiny subject of discussion: We haven't talked that much about the Furfrou trims.

Seems the general consensus is that trims cost 100$ and are permanent. Everyone still agreeing with that?

But the main thing I realized is if we agree with permanency of a trim, that there's now to way of returning to the normal/default form/trim. I say we could either consider it as a trim just like the others (that you have to pay to change to), or simply have the trainer post along the lines of "hey, I'm changing the trim to the natural one" free of charge.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:15 PM   #46
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Sorry for the double post, but I just thought of another tiny subject of discussion: We haven't talked that much about the Furfrou trims.

Seems the general consensus is that trims cost 100$ and are permanent. Everyone still agreeing with that?

But the main thing I realized is if we agree with permanency of a trim, that there's now to way of returning to the normal/default form/trim. I say we could either consider it as a trim just like the others (that you have to pay to change to), or simply have the trainer post along the lines of "hey, I'm changing the trim to the natural one" free of charge.
My inclination is to say that "natural" is a trim like any other trim.

So, a couple things:

1) Auras - I agree that they seem gratuitous, but they also don't really break the game at all, either... if done correctly. I do want it to be clear that they confer ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT - I could see this being used to illuminate rooms or act as a poor man's flash, and I think it should be perfectly clear that if there is a "glow", it's not even sufficient to act for that purpose. It should be very understated, particularly in official zones (in Free RP, you can glow like the sun if you like).

It was suggested to me that auras could potentially be removed from the list but still available - sort of like part of the boutique "secret menu". They won't be disallowed if they're reasonable, but they won't be advertised, either. This is a potential solution.

2) I think the prices at the Boutique are quite low. I won't necessarily fight this, because these are accessories rather than game-influencing items, but here is my fear - I could, conceivably, put in a $4000 order to recolor 20 Pokemon, and overload the shop. As people earn more and more from replying and updating, this becomes a greater and greater concern for those who have to do the sprite work.

I think, in order to keep the prices low realistically, there should be a limit to how many orders a trainer can place at once, particularly if spriting is involved.
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:06 PM   #47
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My inclination is to say that "natural" is a trim like any other trim.
Ok! But before I make things officially, I do wanna wait a bit for other people's input XP

Quote:
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1) Auras - I agree that they seem gratuitous, but they also don't really break the game at all, either... if done correctly. I do want it to be clear that they confer ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT - I could see this being used to illuminate rooms or act as a poor man's flash, and I think it should be perfectly clear that if there is a "glow", it's not even sufficient to act for that purpose. It should be very understated, particularly in official zones (in Free RP, you can glow like the sun if you like).
Well it is already stated in the basic general rules of ANY special characteristic cannot give absolutely any kind of advantage. That would include using auras as a poor man's Flash, illuminating rooms and things like that. It also includes, say, using a resized Pokémon to take advantage on weight-related moves or the environment of a zone (ex.: use a ridiculously small Pokémon to fit in an impossible rack in the wall; use a gigantic Pokémon to make a building explode from the inside). I could always rephrase and add more examples to that rule to make it more explicit.

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It was suggested to me that auras could potentially be removed from the list but still available - sort of like part of the boutique "secret menu". They won't be disallowed if they're reasonable, but they won't be advertised, either. This is a potential solution.
That could work, I wouldn't mind that.

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Originally Posted by Marion Ette View Post
2) I think the prices at the Boutique are quite low. I won't necessarily fight this, because these are accessories rather than game-influencing items, but here is my fear - I could, conceivably, put in a $4000 order to recolor 20 Pokemon, and overload the shop. As people earn more and more from replying and updating, this becomes a greater and greater concern for those who have to do the sprite work.

I think, in order to keep the prices low realistically, there should be a limit to how many orders a trainer can place at once, particularly if spriting is involved.
Well I have mentioned before how I thought the price was low, but however, I do see others' points of wanting something creative to be as accessible as possible.

That said, your point of trying to restrict the amount of work in terms of spriting, especially since I have a feeling the Boutique will explode with people when it'll be opened. However, restricting this can get a little complicated for various reasons:
  • Not all sprites are created equal; that is, recoloring is much easier than a brand-new item.
  • It's already stated in the old rules that for item-related things (for the exception of recoloring Pokédexes), the making of sprites can (and usually are) refused due to either the complication of creating a new sprite from scratch or for not having enough time to do them.
  • Some people don't need a sprite, as either they have already created their own or their change isn't significant enough to be shown on a sprite.
So with that, I would give a solution to keep the prices as it is while still restricting things: do a restriction ŕ la AC, but instead this: each person is allowed to do as many recolors/characteristics/accessories as they want as usual, however, they are allowed to receive/request only 4 sprites every 30 days. That way, if there is people only wanting confirmations with no sprite they can do so, while those requesting sprites aren't able to request an overwhelming amount in one shot.

What do you guys think?
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:06 PM   #48
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OK, now that I finally have some time to devote to this, here's my input on the stuffs being discussed here.

Furfrou- my personal opinion, it shouldn't cost money to revert a trimmed Furfrou to its natural form. Just doesn't seem right to me. Switching to any other trim, yes, that should cost money.

Auras- I'm one of those people who's basically going "I don't see myself using it at the moment, but I don't see a reason to not allow it". I think it's a fun idea. Will I ever make use of it? Who knows? No ideas come to me at time of writing- well, OK, maybe one, and even then, I'm not 100% certain on it. But yeah, I still think it's something that could be allowed, something that has potential.

Spriting overload- I like Okiku's idea here- put a limit on how many sprites one can request from the Boutique at once. I don't even see myself running afoul of it- odds are I'll handle the sprites myself for any recolors I want to do. Hell, I even did one for the recolor I'm planning to request when the Boutique reopens. But yeah- absolutely makes sense to do this, IMO.
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:33 PM   #49
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An interesting idea I had about auras is that they could be used as a reward upon completion of a particular achievement, like, awarding an aura of power upon reaching Lv.100, or awarding an aura of beauty upon maxing a beauty stat, or some other kind of aura for having a mayor role in some world-altering event. There's quite a broad range of possibilities. The idea behind an aura is that it details the kind of presence a Pokémon has before others, and thus influences how other people and Pokémon react before them. And it's not like a 'mon is restricted to just one; you could layer them on top of another. I'd gather one who has managed to earn them all would truly feel like an über example of its species. It doesn't need to be something intrusive either. A Pokémon could be said to only actively exude its aura while in combat or something.

Anyways, I personally like the thought of having something in the Boutique one can work for instead of just outright pay for. Thoughts?
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:01 PM   #50
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I like it, Balmund.
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