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Old 09-07-2016, 02:43 PM   #1
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Hawlucha Referee Evaluations: The League Officials Strike Back

Welcome one and all to Referee Evaluations 2016 which are totally happening again how cool is that. Reminder: these are not new grades and this is not a drill, we are doing Evaluations again.

To those unfamiliar, Referee Evaluations are when everyone gives feedback basically telling us if you've had any refs you think are doing a better or worse job than their current grade indicates, so that we can make an accurate call and bump them up or down respectively.

Due to the nature of these, there will be a one week window for you to get your thoughts in to get these on the road, and then the LOs will discuss the grades in the secret back room before posting up new grades (hopefully) towards the end of September, early October. Send your PMs to me or Miror

We would prefer that everyone give their thoughts on every ref they can think of. Failing to do so will not exactly improve your standing in the League, so if you're aspiring to a position like Gym Leader or future LO, make sure you get your thoughts in. Every contribution helps, especially since not every member has reffed for every other member, so each individual will have unique feedback.

An important note is that referees who are deemed inactive will be removed from the Referee List and will have their grade stripped from them. If I have accidentally removed your grade and you have refereed something within the past 6 months - and I mean reasonably, not one or two rounds which were months apart - then I will rectify the mistake and add you back to the referee list. Otherwise you will have to go through the procedure as a normal returning referee would. .

As a reminder, the grades are defined thusly:

A grade referee: Almost infallible in matters of what happens during a round. May referee any match, including a Grand Melee. May referee up to 15 matches in total.

B grade referee: Correct on most all matters of what happens during a round. May referee any match excepting a Grand Melee. May referee up to 12 matches in total.

C grade referee: A thorough understanding of the rules and able to state what happens with clarity. May referee any match, excepting a Grand Melee or realistic battles, but require permission for Gym matches. May referee up to 10 matches in total.

D grade referee: Solid understanding of the rules but needs experience before joining the ranks of the great. Can referee standard matches, and Exhibition matches with permission, but may not referee Gym matches, Realistic matches, or battles already in progress unless the first round is yet to be posted. May referee up to 10 matches in total.

Ungraded: May referee standard slapstick matches only, with permission from both battlers, but may not referee battles already in progress. May referee up to 10 matches in total.

---

+: Can purchase legend matches and six-packs of squad slots for 5 SP less, Ref Cap increased by three battles. Defined as someone who rarely loses the 48 hour bonus.

±: Can purchase six-packs of squad slots for 5 SP less. Defined as someone who tends to keep within the weekly bonuses.

-: No discount, Ref Cap decreased by three battles. Defined as someone who rarely referees within the boundaries of any bonuses.


Please remember to suggest letter and +/- separately. The former is quality, the latter is speed (and don't use the plusminus symbol that is only there as a placeholder really).

For reference, the following are those considered actively refereeing within the League. As warning, some of you are only tenuously on here having picked up matches very recently, and your activity will end up being monitored with view to future Evaluations.

Spoiler: show
A+
Connor

A
Jerichi

A-
DaveTheFishGuy
Sneaze

B+
Miror
Mew The Gato

B
Celebii151
Son_of_Shadows
KamenAeons

B-
Apollo77
MMS/Snorby

C+
TheKnightsFury/austoman
Ironthunder
Trot Away
HeroicRein/SilverChiko

C
Crys
Rotomotorz
Beautiful Savage
Extroph
TalkSick
Midgeorge

C-
Biggggg5


D+
Eliteknight

D


D-
RealMrGame10
Machamp-X


I will stress again, if you feel you have been left out of this list wrongly, please PM myself or Miror and we will update it accordingly. This includes those of you who have received grades more recently and may not have been added to the referee list in the referee subforum.

It should also be brought to attention that there are returning referees who are yet to receive grades - I would rather evaluate those members myself as opposed to giving them a grade through the evaluations. I hope you understand! With all that said:

Happy voting!

Last edited by Connor; 09-08-2016 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:04 AM   #2
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After some deliberation, we have managed to come to an acceptable decision regarding the changes in referee grade. The new and updated Referee List can be found as follows!

Spoiler: show
A+
Connor

A
Miror

A-
DaveTheFishGuy
Sneaze
Jerichi

B+
Mew The Gato

B
Son_of_Shadows
MMS/Snorby
Apollo77

B-
KamenAeons
Celebii151

C+
TheKnightsFury/austoman
Trot Away
Midgeorge
Eliteknight

C
Beautiful Savage
Ironthunder
Extroph
HeroicRein/SilverChiko
TalkSick

C-
Biggggg5
Crys
Rotomotorz
RealMrGame10

D+


D


D-
Machamp-X

For clarities sake, a summary of the changes is as follows.

Spoiler: show
Miror: B+ to A
Jerichi: A to A-

MMS/Snorby: B- to B
Apollo77: B- to B
KamenAeons: B to B-
Celebii151: B to B-

Midgeorge: C to C+
Eliteknight: D+ to C+
Ironthunder: C+ to C
SilverChiko/HeroicRein: C+ to C
Crys: C to C-
Rotomotorz: C to C-
RealMrGame10: D- to C-

However, this is not all. As some of you may realise, and I have no doubt there will be some questions or complaints about this, we have a bit of a disparity when it comes to referee ability within the C and B rankings. To try and accommodate this, we are considering implementing a new tier. This will essentially allow us to divide the current C rank, but will necessitate shifting the current ranks upwards one to allow for this. To illustrate, the new descriptions would be as follows.

Spoiler: show
S grade referee: All but infallible on what happens during a round, with a nearly flawless understanding of the rules. May referee any match, including a Grand Melee (with LO permission). May ref up to 20 matches in total.

A grade referee: Almost always correct on what happens during a round, with an excellent understanding of the rules. May referee any match excepting a Grand Melee. May referee up to 18 matches in total.

B grade referee: Regularly correct on what happens during a round, with a strong understanding of the rules. May referee any match excepting special event matches, such as Grand Melees, Legend Challenges and Elite Four matches. May referee up to 15 matches in total.

C grade referee: Usually correct on what happens during a round, with a clear understanding of the rules. May referee any match, excepting special event or realistic matches, but require permission for Gym matches. May referee up to 13 matches in total.

D grade referee: Often correct on what happens during a round, with a fairly solid understanding of the rules, but is in need of experience before achieving the higher Grades. Can referee standard matches, and Exhibition matches with permission, but may not referee Gym matches, realistic matches, or special event matches. May referee matches in progress with permission so long as the first round is yet to be posted or the last referee provides notes. May referee up to 10 matches in total.

Ungraded: May referee standard slapstick matches only, with permission from both battlers, but may not referee battles already in progress. May referee up to 8 matches in total.

If there are no disagreements with this possible new system, then it will be implemented sometime around Christmas time, when we will perform another evaluation. Originally this was intended to simply be a review regarding referee speed grades, but if we are to implement this, I would prefer to have community input as to how you all feel our current referees slot into it. Feel free to use this thread for discussion, to voice concerns over the new system, voice support for it, simply propose refinement to the descriptions and so on. You may also take this post as a promise that I will go about having a new evaluations period sometime after Christmas.

Last edited by Connor; 09-25-2016 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 09-27-2016, 07:50 PM   #3
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Yep, S grade would be great! Would really help distinguish C grade, since there is kind of a clear divide in there imo.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:52 PM   #4
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I'm a bit mixed on the ref grade shift. On one end, I agree that C-grade needs a division of some sort, but on the other, I feel that the new B-grade offers a relatively insignificant jump from C-grade. My suggestion: Allow the new B-grade refs to take special event matches (perhaps not Legend challenges, which are a bit of a different beast anyways) with permission. This widens the potential ref pool for big matches, and also gives up and coming refs an arena to prove that they are capable of handling the important stuff (thus ensuring that the way the new A-grade would not end up being treated like the current B-grade is) while also giving the participants of these matches complete control over the situation.

Having said all that, though, something to be addressed is that adding rungs on the ladder makes it more difficult for people on the lower end to climb through the ranks, especially given the frequency of evaluations. While this may allay concerns in the short term, the proposed system still opens itself up to an eventual backlog in one of the ranks, where the referee skill gap between it and the next is evaluated on something closer to an exponential rather than linear scale. I'm of the opinion that it isn't enough to change the ref grades, but rather that the entire evaluation process needs re-evaluating.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocharizard55 View Post
I'm a bit mixed on the ref grade shift. On one end, I agree that C-grade needs a division of some sort, but on the other, I feel that the new B-grade offers a relatively insignificant jump from C-grade. My suggestion: Allow the new B-grade refs to take special event matches (perhaps not Legend challenges, which are a bit of a different beast anyways) with permission. This widens the potential ref pool for big matches, and also gives up and coming refs an arena to prove that they are capable of handling the important stuff (thus ensuring that the way the new A-grade would not end up being treated like the current B-grade is) while also giving the participants of these matches complete control over the situation.

Having said all that, though, something to be addressed is that adding rungs on the ladder makes it more difficult for people on the lower end to climb through the ranks, especially given the frequency of evaluations. While this may allay concerns in the short term, the proposed system still opens itself up to an eventual backlog in one of the ranks, where the referee skill gap between it and the next is evaluated on something closer to an exponential rather than linear scale. I'm of the opinion that it isn't enough to change the ref grades, but rather that the entire evaluation process needs re-evaluating.
Given I was the person who proposed and wrote this up I wasn't gonna post here at all unless someone had concerns. Seeing as someone does, here I am! XP

The new B grade is supposed to be a fairly small jump from the new C Grade. The new B Grade is for people who the following sentence can be applied to: "Well, this person is better than most, no doubt about it. At the same time, do I really have enough confidence in their reliability and depth of knowledge that I want them reffing my legend challenge? My E4 challenge? Not really."

We have a good amount of people who fit this definition, and the differences between New B and New C are designed to not be extreme- they give the New B grade just enough extra freedom that they're able to show their stuff and prove that they should be New A. Rather than being too small, I feel that this system actually streamlines the addition of powers more, so that there aren't only a couple meaningful grade leaps. Here's an outline of the permission additions from grade to grade (P stands for Permission Required):

Ungraded: Standard matches only.

D Grade: Ungraded + Exhibitions (P) + Ongoing Matches (P)

C Grade: D Grade + no Permission needed on Exhibs/Ongoing Matches + Gym Matches (P)

B Grade: C Grade + no Permission needed on Gym Matches + Realistic Matches

A Grade: B Grade + Special Event matches (Upon Request)

S Grade: A Grade + Grand Melees (LO Permission)

As you can see here, this makes it so permissions are distributed more evenly throughout the grades (as it stands, D -> C and C -> B have massive leaps in what you can and can't do while all other grades offer minimal new permissions), with the latter two grades getting shortchanged because they're the most selective grades.

If New!B is allowed to take Special Event matches, New!B and New!A become almost identical on paper and completely identical in practice. At that point, we're better off not implementing a new system and just shoving all these people we don't feel are ready for Special Event matches into the Grade that lets them ref Special Event matches. This is because anyone, no matter how skilled they are, needs permission to ref a Special Event match. There's no Special Event Ref's Queue. For E4 matches, the challenger and the E4 member (at least from my experience) compile a list of people they'd be wiling to have ref for them, and then ask the people on the list directly. For Legend Challenges, the LOs pick people. Currently, the standard for such things is B or higher- in other words, New!A or higher.

Even throwing aside that allowing that would completely ruin the point of the Grade itself, your reasoning for it is still a little flawed: Our current pool of referees for such matches totals to 11. Even if we have an E4 match and two legend matches running on each forum, that only uses half of our current pool for it, a pool which given time will only increase. So increasing the pool is rather unnecessary.

As for giving referees an "arena" to prove their capable of reffing more important stuff... well, the issue with that is your proposed arena is the important stuff. Besides, we have an arena for people in New!B to prove their merit already: Gym matches. As it stands, people who need permission aren't even reffing half of the current Gym Matches- which is actually UP from what it was just a few short months ago. As such, people in Current!C who currently need permission to ref Gym Matches will have more opportunity to prove their worth in new!B, where they can ref Gym Matches more freely.

Given Connor is now running evaluations quarterly (and Connor, unlike most people, is reliably punctual in such things), an argument based on an infrequency of evals is pretty moot- especially considering the Eval this proposal would be implemented during would be the smallest span we've ever had between evals, to my knowledge.

While it adds another rung for people to climb, yes, I argue that isn't a bad thing at all. To use the ladder metaphor, the current system has 5 rungs: The first is six inches below the second, which is 9 inches below the third, which is a foot below the fourth, which is six inches below the fifth. The new system has 6 rungs, but rather than being 6/9/12/9 inches apart it's closer to 6/6/6/6/9- not completely linear, as New!S/Current!A grade is meant to be the cream of the reffing crop and as such is rather difficult to attain, but undeniably moreso than the current system. Realistically, I see no reason there would be a surplus of people in any one grade unless all those people are of roughly the same reffing quality- in which case, there isn't really an issue. We can't be sacrificing the integrity of the ref grade system to make the grades look more even.

In regards to the last line: I would argue there's nothing wrong with the evaluation system we're putting in place. The single issue with what we're doing right now is that it takes too much time for people's speed to be adjusted to fit their grade- many people are stuck with minuses while they're reffing, get bumped up during July or August after spending the summer reffing within 48, and then hold their + grade while they ref fortnightly during the school year. That single issue will be fixed by doing speed grades in the offseasons of fall and spring, which Connor was planning to implement starting with these next evals but then my proposal got in the way of that xp
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Old 09-28-2016, 03:54 AM   #6
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I'm going to hold off on a lengthy reply for the moment, as I want to hear more opinions, but I'll say this much; I feel quite strongly that the new A grade is going have the same situation as the current B grade, which to me, somewhat defeats the purpose of adding a new grade. Frankly put, realistic matches aren't incredibly common (if this is faulty, call me out and I'll retract this) and don't constitute much of a real boon (Opinion alert!). The only "significant" change is the removal of the requirement to ref Gym matches. Which, yeah, I guess is kind of nice, but frankly put anyone in this category is likely already going to be granted permission anyways. Again, I'm mixed because I do see your point in doing this, but I certainly feel like this needs tweaking.

Also, didn't realize evals ran quarterly. I was under the assumption that it was bi-annually. If this is the new plan, I'll retract the frequency statement. Having said that, I'm not entirely sure what the evaluation process is right now, so I'll ask a few relevant questions to start. Is there a panel? Does Connor solely run it for the most part? To what extent are nominations taken into account, and in what way?

Additionally, assuming all B's move up to A's in the new system, your number is inflated, because the pool of 11 is including Jeri, Dave, Sneaze, and SoS, none of whom are really actively reffing due to life and shit. Given, you'd still have a pool of 7, which to be fair is good, but that is assuming that everyone is bumped up. Having said that, it was only an offhanded suggestion; throwing ideas at the metaphorical wall and seeing if something sticks. I honestly think it's easier to slightly loosen the net on current A-grade, as well as on current B-grade. I'm of the opinion that it isn't necessary to stratify the grading system further.

Alternatively, seeing as how we literally only have one D-grade ref, another available option is to make D-grade more prevalent. (I'm not claiming to support or not support this, but I want to throw out the idea for people to think about).
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:53 AM   #7
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RE: Quarterly/biannually, I vaguely recall Cibbir saying something about speed evals being quarterly and full grade changes being biannual.

Personally, idgaf because it won't affect me. Although, I'm with Snorby on letting D grades ref in-progress matches with permission, because they can sit in the ref queue for weeks on end with no ref.
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Snorby View Post
The new B Grade is for people who the following sentence can be applied to: "Well, this person is better than most, no doubt about it. At the same time, do I really have enough confidence in their reliability and depth of knowledge that I want them reffing my legend challenge? My E4 challenge? Not really."
;;

Ouch.

I'm fine with the new set up (aside from the above hitting me DX )
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:50 AM   #9
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Kamen, baby, under the new system you'd be ~A~
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:24 AM   #10
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Yeah. Obviously I'm not the one who ultimately decides grades, but I should think if you're reffing E4 or legend matches right now (especially if you're reffing FOR JERI) you should have absolutely no worry about getting into New!A.

>Alto

You're right in that realistic matches are somewhat uncommon. However, I feel that, given Legend Challenges are realistic (as well as GMs, usually), there's actually no better way to show you're ready to handle a Legend Challenge than to properly ref a realistic match- we can't have someone who otherwise seems like a good ref to get a legend challenge and then have the mon snapping bones left and right.

You're also right that New!A and Current!B would be much the same- that's kind of the point of this. The issue is not that not enough people can get to B, the issue is that too many people of varying levels of quality do not belong in the same grade. If we had 100 people in C, but they were all roughly the same quality of referee as, say, Roto, that would be completely fine, because that's where they belong. What we have right now that isn't fine, though, is a handful of people who are at the highest point of C and a handful of people at the lowest point of C, and they're so different in reffing quality they aren't even comparable. That's not to say that the higher people belong in B and the lower people belong in D- or that said grades should be made more lenient/strict to accommodate such a change. We don't want people who aren't ready to ref legend challenges reffing legend challenges, nor do we want people completely barred from reffing Gym Matches who're good enough that they should be able to. At the same time, we want differentiation between, for example, the likes of Austo, who's the cream of the C crop, and the likes of RMG, who just got bumped up from D this Eval. Is Austo someone great enough that I think he'd be well-suited to ref a legend match? No, not quite yet. Is RMG someone who, given permission, would be able to ref a Gym Match and ref it well? Yes, for sure. Does that make them equal quality as referees? No, absolutely not.

Also, quick aside that Dave is currently reffing a Legend Match and Sneaze was reffing one until Kuno got too busy and had to icebox it. Josh I believe is currently reffing Connor's legend match too. I know Josh is leaving so the number is admittedly inflated by one; I'm just making the point here that somewhat inactive referees can absolutely be called upon to ref important matches if need be. xp

I'll let Connor answer questions about the Eval process, given he's the guy running it; though I will say that nominations of course are heavily considered but at the end of the day a person isn't going to get a grade those in charge think that person doesn't deserve- Connor said as much when a certain someone who is no longer in the ASB tried to inflate his own grade by having all the newbies nominate him for A Grade.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:52 AM   #11
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Think B grades should be able to take legend matches with LO permission, because there are a lot coming up and we need fast & generally reliable referee's to take them.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:09 AM   #12
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Well that is why they opened up and let Kamen and SoS take legend matches recently, before that if your name wasn't Dave, Sniz or Cibbir you weren't reffing it. (Yes I know there were others, shhhh)
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:56 AM   #13
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Not sure if you mean Current!B or New!B, George, but either way the current number of people able to ref legend challenges exceeds the number of legend challenges we can possibly have at one time (4), and as it stands we even have enough for every legend match to get someone with either a + or neutral grade and still have an extra person that meets that qualification leftover.
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:31 PM   #14
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Ballpark me here, roughly how many of the current 25 refs on that list do you see being in new!A and new!S (combined), if you did it right now? Like, E4 matches/legend reffings/GMs shouldn't be handed out like candy, but I view them as kind of the reffing equivalent of being a GL/E4; it should be something that people reasonably feel like they can aim for.

Also I know that LOs tend to get picked from good refs so there's obviously going to be some level of LO crowding at the top, but it's important that running GMs doesn't end up feeling like the LOs and Sneaze show. I feel like the current B grades could probably at least help run a GM; say they can like assist an A grade running them, spread the workload and give a wider range of people a shot at doing GMs without dumping all the work on their shoulders straight away? Two or three ref GMs could work better due to reduced workload. The complicated bits of GMs are a) the sheer workload and b) the 6+ mon brawls, but there's usually one or two of those and a bunch of smaller stuff happening around the map so let a B grade deal with the simpler things happening so the A grade can more easily focus on the big complicated main battle.

Tbh I'd be tempted to say just axe the current D grade and spread it that way. Like honestly, Champ can do unfinished matches, just fold him into C and ditch D entirely with your new descriptions for S -> C (or A -> D, whatever). D grade doesn't really serve any purpose right now imo. If someone really can't manage taking over unfinished matches don't grade them yet, but that's pretty rare once people have done a couple matches in my experience.
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:18 PM   #15
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Ballpark me here, roughly how many of the current 25 refs on that list do you see being in new!A and new!S (combined), if you did it right now? Like, E4 matches/legend reffings/GMs shouldn't be handed out like candy, but I view them as kind of the reffing equivalent of being a GL/E4; it should be something that people reasonably feel like they can aim for.

Also I know that LOs tend to get picked from good refs so there's obviously going to be some level of LO crowding at the top, but it's important that running GMs doesn't end up feeling like the LOs and Sneaze show. I feel like the current B grades could probably at least help run a GM; say they can like assist an A grade running them, spread the workload and give a wider range of people a shot at doing GMs without dumping all the work on their shoulders straight away? Two or three ref GMs could work better due to reduced workload. The complicated bits of GMs are a) the sheer workload and b) the 6+ mon brawls, but there's usually one or two of those and a bunch of smaller stuff happening around the map so let a B grade deal with the simpler things happening so the A grade can more easily focus on the big complicated main battle.

Tbh I'd be tempted to say just axe the current D grade and spread it that way. Like honestly, Champ can do unfinished matches, just fold him into C and ditch D entirely with your new descriptions for S -> C (or A -> D, whatever). D grade doesn't really serve any purpose right now imo. If someone really can't manage taking over unfinished matches don't grade them yet, but that's pretty rare once people have done a couple matches in my experience.
Again, not the one who'd be deciding so don't quote me here but my nominations for people in December would probably see me nominating like 10-12 people for A or S. Next quality eval it would probably be more like 12-15, assuming people get themselves graded and keep improving at their current rates.

I very much like that idea for GMs. I'd definitely support it- something like a Single A (S) Grade and two B (A) Grades working under him would make GMs go much more smoothly.

As for the D Grade, it's important to note that D Grades can actually take matches in progress under the new system- that's not what the grade is meant to block. D Grade's most important clause is the outright inability to ref Gym Matches. Don't know how that sways your opinion but thought I'd point it out :p
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:20 PM   #16
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If people can't manage unfinished matches, they could always just, y'know, not pick up the unfinished matches. Refs should know what they are and are not capable of reffing, both from their grade and their personal opinions of their capabilities.

D rank should exist imo, just because we have a single D rank ref atm doesn't mean it should be nixed. D grade's more a phase for the new refs who rush into reffing and balls it up a bit at the start, and the reason there's hardly any refs in there is because we haven't had any newblets who have tried to start reffing for a while. We'll hopefully get more once gen 7 is released.

With cepty on the GM thing though, multiple refs working it would almost certainly make GMs slightly less of a shitshow.
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:26 PM   #17
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Still, it's essentially the current D grade which imo is pretty much pointless imo - certainly when I was grading we didn't really use it unless I was in a bad mood. If you ditch D and lump them all into C, GLs can still differentiate by just not giving permission if they want to. Separate grading there doesn't really serve much purpose except to stigmatise certain people, imo. /2cents
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:49 PM   #18
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While that's fair, my opinion is, given we have something of a stigma against saying no when people ask for permission unless it's because we already have someone else lined up, that we need to have a place to put people who under no circumstances should be reffing matches that give out Gym Badges. I don't want to see some fresh-faced, enthusiastic newbie ref who just got their grade but has no real functional understanding of how reffing works ask a GL who's looking for someone who'll ref within the 48, getting the okay, and then next fortnight we have some undeserving TL3 walking around with a Gym Badge because they were fortunate enough to have a bad referee.

So while it's true that GLs can very easily just say no to low quality refs, the issue, I think, is that some GLs might say yes either because they feel bad or because they want fast reffings. I'd rather not give them the opportunity to do that when we put so much weight onto owning a Gym Badge.
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:00 PM   #19
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Current System:
(as pulled from my Jan 2016 Ref Evals)
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A: This grade is for refs who know the rules like the back of their hand, which means they know how to break them. But it's okay that they break the rules, because they "know when that's proper" by which I mean "they're LOs and make the rules so the rules are what they say meaning that the bitch I do what I want approach to reffing is totally valid for them". They generally don't ref much, or are just in the grade to fill out the roster. Sometimes both. Like in college, this is a grade you get because you're a complete nerd... or that one guy who somehow has a 4.0 despite being a total drunkard.

B: This grade is for refs who are good and actually ref, but don't get to be A grade because they're too new to have believably scaled all of Mount Learning Curve or because REASONS. They can handle most anything reasonably enough but people still feel comfortable challenging them and calling them dumb. Like in college, this is a grade you get to make sure your parents stay proud of you but don't develop too high of expectations that it cuts into your party time.

C: This grade is for refs who are just really mediocre. Usually they're new and just sent in their ref test and after three months of "intense grading", Dave (by which I mean a fed up Connor) looked at it and said "well you're not a complete idiot" and handed out a C. This is probably their first round of evals since then. Like in college, this is a grade you get because it's just enough to keep getting by and not be looked down on.

D: This grade is for refs who people think ate crayons as a kid (and still occasionally do, getting surprised when the macaroni and cheese orange one doesn't actually taste like mac n' cheese). If you get this grade, you're probably considered lazy, not bright, or have been deemed "disliked" by the powerful Tribunal of Skype TO because you are Emerald Goblin or somehow associated with Emerald Goblin. Like in college, this grade is "technically not failing".


Proposed System:
(using only sexual metaphors)
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S: They're almost always unavailable, but if you somehow get your hands on one, then it's because they're a very high end prostitute that fucks like a porn star. His name is Connor, and while you're not a sheep, this little welsh leprechaun will blow you for a pot of gold anyway.

A: This is the kind of sex worth cataloging in your spankbank or (if you're classy like that) your scrapbook. You truly got lucky. You'll wake up in the morning and be really happy with how things went, and wanna go all night. But at some point, she's gonna get tired of you and go to sleep, and you'll depressingly remember that this is a rarity.

B: Is she the hottest girl at the party? Not really. But she's a solid 6.5, and decent enough that your friends won't make fun of you. There's a chance you'll get lucky, and she loves giving blowjobs, but may also be some hiccups with her being into some weird shit too. But I mean... rimjobs or no jobs?

C: Like a handjob, they get the job done without leaving too bad of a taste in anybody's mouth. But also like a handjob, they'll leave you somewhat unsatisfied and knowing that you could've done a better job of it yourself.

D: They're the cheap penny stock whores of ASB. They're pretty transparently bad. They know it. You it. Everybody who sees it knows it. They're only there just to satisfy a desperate need, and after you finish you hope they didn't give you syphilis to go with your regret and shame.

Either that, or they're a total virgin who obviously has no idea what they're doing.


My personal thoughts on the proposed system is that I couldn't nail the A and B jokes as well as the others, perhaps because I decided to axe the anal jokes. I think this clearly speaks volumes as to the quality of spacing between the levels.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:00 PM   #20
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Also potentially make it so - grades can't do GMs, tourney matches, etc? Because honestly fuck people like me.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:16 PM   #21
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You know, that might not be the worst idea ever.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:16 PM   #22
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110% back that idea
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:22 PM   #23
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Also potentially make it so - grades can't do GMs, tourney matches, etc? Because honestly fuck people like me.
This is quite possibly the best way to make sure a - grade ref never refs again ever. I know I'm personally pretty slow with most matches, but if you put something on my plate that genuinely means something I'll usually have it cranked out quickly and consistently as long as all manner of hell doesn't break loose in good old meatspace. Without the special matches, I doubt I'd even ref regular ones on occasion because, frankly, I get tired of the same boring shit on repeat.

Yes you have people who are - grade and don't ref anything with any form of speed, but tacking a - grade on shouldn't mean they get effectively shat on in every way. We already give discount bonuses to people with neutral or +, taking more shit away is not an incentive to ref faster.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:36 PM   #24
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Will also point out the issues of people having undeserved - grades getting shafted (I had - for almost 2 years despite averaging less than a week per reffing). Also it's important to note nearly half of our refs are -, and to ban them from important reffings would severely limit our manpower.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:42 PM   #25
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Fair enough. I think if you end up missing at least the weekly bonus on something big you can go sod yourself, though.
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