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Old 03-24-2017, 06:01 PM   #1
Lady Kuno
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Wobbuffet Skype Sucks

So for years I was on an older version of Skype. The newer versions always had things unnecessarily large, with lots of empty space, and otherwise just aesthetically very ugly. It just straight up looked stupid as shit. So I did what any reasonable human would do and never upgraded Skype.

Unfortunately, Skype now requires an update or you can't log in at all and man oh man this looks ugly as shit. The "contact list" of skype has about 1/3rd of the page taken up by useless shit. I know what my user name is, thanks. Then there's a search bar. Useless. Put that shit in the menu bar under contacts. Then theres all these other useless buttons that serve no real purpose that I never press for any reason ever. I don't know what they do and I don't feel like clicking them to find out. Then finally the contacts. About halfway down.

But that's not even the real issue. When you message someone it looks like complete horseshit. It's like.. some sort of messaging app? But it's fucking reversed. I keep thinking I'M the one sending all the messages I get. What the fuck? Why isn't there an option for it to look like a normal internet conversation. Like..

Kuno: Skype sucks donkey dong (8:00 PM)
Everyone with a brain: I agree (8:01 PM)

No need to hire me Skype, I just fixed this shit for you. Now I get you want to be cool and hip and his this text messaging appearance, but have an option to also get that shit so far out of my face I don't want to remember it exists.


In conclusion, this looks really ugly. There's a reason people are ditching Skype and it's because it sucks. The end.
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:18 PM   #2
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It's almost like Discord is better in every way or something
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:48 PM   #3
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I have a lot of contacts on skype. Also Discord app blows because it always tells me "Oh youre at a new location please check your email" and I don't remember my email password to log in on my phone and it annoys me a lot.

Also your sig is huge, what the hell.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Kuno View Post
Unfortunately, Skype now requires an update or you can't log in at all
I had a similar problem a few months back on my 2007 PC running Windows XP. Skype decided to no longer support Internet Explorer 8, and 8 is as far into the future as XP can go. So it basically meant I could no longer log in. (Can no longer log in, should I choose to use that computer.)

I wouldn't be surprised if yours was somehow related to mine. For instance, your client is so old, it can't interface with IE10 (or some later, more recent IE). So even if your PC is new(er) and you have IE10 or newer, because your Skype client is so old it just borks. I'm specifying IE10 instead of 9 here because if you were having a 9-related problem just like I was in November then I would've expected you to have posted about it before now. Anyway. Doesn't matter. Armchair hypothesis.

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The newer versions [of Skype] always had things unnecessarily large, with lots of empty space, and otherwise just aesthetically very ugly. It just straight up looked stupid as shit. [...][I upgraded and] man oh man this looks ugly as shit. The "contact list" of skype has about 1/3rd of the page taken up by useless shit. I know what my user name is, thanks. Then there's a search bar. Useless. Put that shit in the menu bar under contacts. Then theres all these other useless buttons that serve no real purpose that I never press for any reason ever. I don't know what they do and I don't feel like clicking them to find out. Then finally the contacts. About halfway down.

But that's not even the real issue. When you message someone it looks like complete horseshit.

[...]

In conclusion, this looks really ugly. There's a reason people are ditching Skype and it's because it sucks. The end.
Oh, I agree completely. I think we all do. No one I know has spoken positively about Skype since around the time certain parties here made us start chatting with it circa 2010, 2011. (Remember? Before then, we used to use our respective AIM clients all the time. Whether it was AIM proper, Pidgin, or Trillian.) Skype was nice in 2010/11 because it had "permanent chat rooms" instead of the ones we had to constantly recreate in AIM; and because it had chat room memory, i.e. you could be AFK for hours or days and then log in and read the backlog of what other users had submitted. That was cool. That was something that AIM didn't have. So you and Morg and myself and the others, we didn't force the issue. We didn't say, "Okay, Yuki. Install an AIM client OR ElSE!" We didn't say, "Alright, Brit Pack. You keep telling yourself MSN is the best messaging client of them all. " We said, "Fine, fuck it: we'll install yet another chat client and migrate over to it instead."

But even back then, Skype was a lot clunkier, a lot less sexy and streamlined and intelligent, than Pidgin or Trillian were. And it's only gotten worse with time. So much ad space. I've had really bad experiences separating the friends list from the chat windows (THE WAY IT IS MEANT TO BE!!!!!!!), so I haven't done it on this computer for fear of fucking things up again (as I did on my PC, where it 2x'd Skype's memory resource needs and never went back to normal even when I undid the change), but like ... now it means an ungainly friends list is attached at the fucking hip to my chat boxes like some sort of horror story incompletely developed Siamese twin. D: It's just fucked up, man. I hate it.

NGL: I'd really like the Internet to "get its shit together #rickandmorty" and just choose a single messaging client for us to go with and let's fucking roll. And whatever that choice is, it sure as hell would not be Skype at this point. Maybe it'd be Discord. (Ehhh ... just seems like the newest Skype kid on the block. ) Maybe it'd be an "AIM 2.0" protocol put forward by the open source people. God only knows. Whatever it is / would be, I'd like it here now.

Aside: kinda surprised that none of the kids these days ever bring up IRC. That was like, the chat room alternative people used to bring up all the time until the late '00s. I never here anyone plugging for IRC anymore around here. It's always Discord this or Skype that.
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Old 03-24-2017, 09:05 PM   #5
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Morg and I have had speculative discussions about moving full-time to Line.

The threat of decommissioning for AIM was renewed fairly recently when it was announced the encryption hash for third-party applications would no longer be supported (implying that Trillian, Pidgin, etc. would no longer be compatible with AIM). The scare was averted, but it's only a matter of time before the service is shut down for good.

There isn't a single unifying communication client that everyone can get around, because different generations have their preferences. Heck, even in 2001 there were competing flavours of the same software incompatible with each other (MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, ICQ, AIM) and forward-thinking software like Trillian isn't possible anymore because new companies have monetized the traffic and are outright competing for one another for users.

Like you Kuno, I dropped Skype due to a frustrating UI change, and this was several years ago. Even maintaining conversations with UPN members was not worth the extraordinary effort to make Skype work with me,

Why Line: as a profitable corporation, its development is relatively stable and unlikely to be subject to rapid changes for something smaller and newer with notable problems, like Discord and spammers. As a Japanese company owned by a Korean tech conglomo, Line has less interested in exploiting personalized user data than something like Facebook does with WhatsApp and FB Chat. Your information is more likely to be protected because there's less incentive for Naver or Line to snoop.

But those features are not unique to Line, necessarily. The big kicker is Line is the ONLY free service that allows you to place VoIP telephone calls, using your number, at no charge. That includes landline phones which is an issue for other, similar services like Vyper. Line allows you to drop talk/text data plans and simply use Line app for all conversations and there's a nascent PC version of the service as well.

I haven't had much chance to investigate, but that was the discussion.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:34 PM   #6
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Discord, along with Slack, has become the chat room of choice on the internet nowadays. Slack of course is generally for more business-related communication, so that leaves you with Discord. It's not nearly as clunky as Skype used to be, so it's not really the new Skype kid on the block in the sense of being practically in beta.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:52 PM   #7
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This is literally why I never log on Skype... because it's garbage. I've always hated the UI, I hate pretty much every aspect of it, I think call quality and video quality are total shit, and it's just not good when there are so many better options.

Line and Discord. That's all I use, and I'm happy with that. Both offer simplistic and satisfying experiences that aren't offensive to the eyes and ears. A UPN Line group would be pretty cool, actually.
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:21 AM   #8
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Discord is basically IRC, but jazzed up with a proprietary client and everything is hosted at the Discord place so you don't have to pay to run a server or anything, you can just make it and exist on it. It's also made for gaming first and foremost, so it takes up very little in the way of resources.
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:29 PM   #9
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Discord is basically IRC, but jazzed up with a proprietary client and everything is hosted at the Discord place so you don't have to pay to run a server or anything, you can just make it and exist on it. It's also made for gaming first and foremost, so it takes up very little in the way of resources.
IRC doesn't log history. Discord does. In that sense, it is immediately more comparable with Skype.

IRC: logs nothing, but could probably be set up like AIM (see below)
AIM: logs nothing for you, but can be set up to save chats to a text file after you close their window
Skype: logs the history of any and all chats you're in on Skype's private servers, so that the next time you log in you can see all the stuff you missed; allows people to leave messages for you even when you're not signed in

Discord is Skype 2.0.
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:49 PM   #10
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I use HexChat for IRC and it has options to save logs automatically (which is what I do).
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Old 03-25-2017, 09:00 PM   #11
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The difference is I'm pretty sure Discord uses cloud computing, so the logs are actually stored on their server. The idea is you can log onto your Discord account anywhere and pick up the conversation where you left off.

With Trillian, I also log chats in IRC but it's only local storage. If you are concerned about privacy, having your information stored in Discord's servers is dangerous because it's a big target for a mass data leak.

If Discord requires your actual name, and if not if it does in the future, this allows Discord to sell your conversation data to third parties. And even if their TOS don't allow this, it still makes them a target for hacks to steal that data and sell it to third parties.
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:36 AM   #12
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IRC doesn't log history. Discord does. In that sense, it is immediately more comparable with Skype.

IRC: logs nothing, but could probably be set up like AIM (see below)
AIM: logs nothing for you, but can be set up to save chats to a text file after you close their window
Skype: logs the history of any and all chats you're in on Skype's private servers, so that the next time you log in you can see all the stuff you missed; allows people to leave messages for you even when you're not signed in

Discord is Skype 2.0.
So, the ability to save chat logs is not what defines IRC.

Technically all IM programs are IRC programs at their core, but we don't define them as IRC because they use a p2p protocol that sends the info right to your computer or account. This is why the logs are kept in Skype. (AIM actually keeps logs in the latest versions. There is no reason for an IM program not to keep logs. Also, AIM has always allowed you to send messages to users who are not logged in. It sends them in an email. I remember using YIM like this back in the day.)

That's the technical details for you (simplified), but in terms of usage, Discord is *vastly* more similar to IRC than it is to Skype or AIM. In terms of feel, Discord is like a Greased Lightning version of the old IRC clients. Discord uses the syntax and structure of IRC servers but removes the cost of running servers, adds VOIP (and soon video???), displays the servers you belong to along the left, records your logs in the cloud, and allows P2P IM and calls.

You're *really* reaching for this one, Talon, and it's probably just because you don't feel like using yet another boring and clunky IM program. I'm telling you don't worry: this one was built for you. Low-space, low-impact, high-functionality, feels-like-home IRC-style chatrooms.

I don't actually care if you end up using it or not, but I think it's actually really rude for you to dismiss what I say with an "oh, but it saves chat logs, so it's really just Skype all over again."
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:56 AM   #13
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So, the ability to save chat logs is not what defines IRC.
I DID NOT KNOW THIS! Please! Tell me more!

>Discord uses the syntax and structure of IRC servers
So does Skype.

>but removes the cost of running servers
So does Skype.

>adds VOIP (and soon video???)
What the fuck do you think Skype is.

>displays the servers you belong to along the left
As I understand it, those are not "servers" in any true sense. They're just private channels you've created or opted into. They could each be on a different server, or they could all be on the exact same server.

>records your logs in the cloud
Your first real difference from Skype (afaik; Microsoft may be using cloud computing with Skype now, or they may still be doing it traditionally on private servers all their own) ... and it's the one that places you the furthest possible away from a traditional IRC setup.

>and allows P2P IM and calls
... We're done here. You may as well write the case for me. "Discord. is. Skype. 2.0."

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Old 03-26-2017, 01:04 AM   #14
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' ' , '

Skype does not use the same structure or syntax as IRC.

Chatrooms on Skype or AIM are channels, not servers.

Microsoft is using cloud computing now, but still stores data locally (discord does not).

Skype is built off of IM, Discord is built off of IRC.
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Old 03-26-2017, 01:14 AM   #15
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I think we're having two very different ideas of what "structure and syntax" mean here. I'm talking IRC commands. You have to be talking actual code or else I have no idea what you're going on about. Skype very much uses a lot of the same commands that have been used for decades owing to de facto standards made by IRC.

Explain how a Discord chatroom is an entire server unto itself. That appeared to have been your claim. That still appears to be your claim.
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Old 03-26-2017, 01:37 AM   #16
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Within a single Discord server, you have multiple different chatrooms, and the ability to mute and hide the ones you don't care about. So no, a single Discord chatroom isn't a server. It's just a chatroom on one of the many servers related to various things you might choose to join.

In Skype, you can make a groupchat, and you only get that main chat.

But not gonna lie, I think this whole debate is sort of missing the point entirely. The primary difference between Skype and Discord has nothing to do with their chatrooms, though Discord's prioritization of joining servers rather than having a huge contact list is a fairly large, significant difference. The main thing that sets the two apart is that Skype's core feature is video chatting. The chatroom is just a necessary, convenient thing to include in the program so that people can set up and prepare for their video chat. I don't think I've seen a single Skype commercial that isn't about video chats. Discord, on the other hand, doesn't even have this feature. It's meant to provide you and your friends or you and other players of the same game a server that you can talk, plan, and play on without sacrificing any game performance. Sure, people are going to use it as a general chatroom app because it looks pretty, but its intended audience is people wanting to play video games with each other and find people to play with.
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Old 03-26-2017, 04:55 AM   #17
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A discord server is a server.

A discord chatroom is a channel.

Discord is IRC.

Talon (faintly, in the distance): IRC doesn't log history. Discord does. In that sense, it is immediately more comparable with Skype.
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Old 03-26-2017, 04:55 AM   #18
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:44 AM   #19
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:22 AM   #20
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I think we're having two very different ideas of what "structure and syntax" mean here. I'm talking IRC commands. You have to be talking actual code or else I have no idea what you're going on about. Skype very much uses a lot of the same commands that have been used for decades owing to de facto standards made by IRC.

Explain how a Discord chatroom is an entire server unto itself. That appeared to have been your claim. That still appears to be your claim.


Here's what Discord looks like. On the far left, you'll see three icons. Those are the servers. They're servers because they're not chatrooms: each server can have multiple channels, or chatrooms. Each server you join is completely and totally separate from another. It can be argued its similar, probably because IM programs are evolving and realizing certain things are better features to have than have not (like log saving, for example), but its really not Skype's spiritual descendant.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:39 AM   #21
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Let's all be honest with ourselves: the only reason any of us used Skype for UPN chat purposes is because Microsoft were dicks and forced us off MSN in favor of Skype.
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Old 03-26-2017, 03:40 PM   #22
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Let's all be honest with ourselves: the only reason any of us used Skype for UPN chat purposes is because Microsoft were dicks and forced us off MSN in favor of Skype.
Holy shit this.

I think the biggest thing here people are neglecting for Discord is just how much better it is for organization from a moderation standpoint. If you have eight billion channels you can easily set up permissions for individual users or usergroups per channel that include the ability to read, ability to write, ability to see past messages from times they weren't online, attach files and embed links, even down to using emojis. Now for groups like UPN this isn't really that huge a deal since most everyone gets treated the same anyway, but for groups where you want to encourage frequency and quality of activity levels, all the extra little doodads can really help be bonuses to those that you want to reward or hindrances to those that may need temporarily punished.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:43 PM   #23
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:47 PM   #24
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Remember the days when we used AIM?
Like yesterday?
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:25 PM   #25
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Hoo boy that is a spicy meatball

thanks for the new sig :3
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