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Old 05-11-2016, 10:11 PM   #101
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Yeah we have the items rule for a reason because it's really easy for items to get broken fast.

Of course, you can argue the same thing about arenas but generally arenas are equal opportunity.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:38 PM   #102
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Permission to rewrite Diddy's banana as an energy construct, then?
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:39 PM   #103
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Sig approvals are basically on hold until this is figured out.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:46 PM   #104
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I mean literally all it is is just making "banana" read "banana energy construct" in my Notes, as the activation method was entirely for the name joke in the first place. I have the text for all my currently approved sigs and all pending proposals readily available as such as well.
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244) While not FORBIDDEN, my Midnight is to keep in mind that using an army of animated skeletons in order to fill the town square with a rendition of "Spooky Scary Skeletons" is going to be considered odd at best.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:02 PM   #105
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Just to kind of gauge current reactions to the proposed ideas (the two points Jeri made towards the end of the OP), I created a strawpoll just to see what system people currently would prefer, either:

A) #1, where all sigs get brought up for review, which is a more encompassing system but puts more pressure on the sig approvers as they have to go through every sig in the league.

B) #2, where people essentially self-regulate and volunteer the sigs that aren't according to the guidelines, while a dedicated person or people go through squads afterwards and ensure that nothing broken is still floating around, easing the burden on sig approvers but also creating the potential for something(s) to get missed.

C) Some other way of doing it.

Remember this is just to see which system people are leaning towards as of right now, and gives us the potential to focus down on a particular system type sooner if there's an overwhelming majority one way or another (or neither, if that's the case).

Obviously this isn't a perfect system and we aren't considering it as such, more of just to see where early impressions lie.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:06 PM   #106
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I'm with C) The total Sig Reset put forth by Slash.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:13 PM   #107
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I'm with C) The total Sig Reset put forth by Slash.
Yeah after this initial testing of the water so to speak, that among the more prominent ideas of how to do the review will be added in a second run through.

Also keep in mind that the "None of the Above" in essence is included in the poll, so if you don't like either of the proposed options you can still vote on this first poll.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:23 PM   #108
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I'm with C) The total Sig Reset put forth by Slash.
I have already done this :p but yeah removing all sigs apart from the ones that were approved in the most recent batch by Jeri is both fast and fair.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:32 PM   #109
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It looks like we now have no less than five people who have now dropped most/all their sigs. I think that is a pretty big sign right there in support of a reset. It seems to be the most popular option around, and even some people against it have said they can see the reasons why folks support it.

As far as self-regulation goes, I'm going to have to say I disagree with it. We need this to be wholly official. No cracks to seep through. And has been pointed out, self-regulation is a bad idea as shown by things like Sig Court, where one man's sane is another man's broken as all hell. Some people can't be objective about their own sigs. Hell, I'd say most people. Plus non-official regulation is very, well, unofficial. We need this to be real.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:54 AM   #110
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Once we have set date, I will drop everything
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:51 AM   #111
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Now that I've said my piece on execution, time to look at actual sig policy more closely xp

Quick question on the rules of giving familiarity:

Are moves of the type being made familiar allowed to be given, or is that considered 2 sigs? Furthermore, how should referees handle it if a sig adds 6 moves of the same new offtype? Many refs ref a mon being fauxmiliar at least at that point- should they still? Or does that make the sig overpowered?
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:46 PM   #112
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Say, what are your views on Signatures that alter an opponent's Type? (If that's right out, the change could be temporary, like a few turns.) And what about things that cancel out Evolution (dis)advantage? There's already a Token/Badge for that, right?

Anyway. I would be lying if I didn't say I have mixed feelings about all of this...On one hand the reset/overhaul would indeed help with fairness when it comes to what's acceptable for an ability and what's not. On the other hand another side of me feels that setting these strict regulations ends up being rather cookie-cutter. I feel that would stifle my creativity. I'm sure alot of us would love to have their partners do awesome stuff, and that may or may not happen. I can accept that, but at the same time i'm torn...

I know it's a lame suggestion coming from the likes of me...But i'd like to see these imminent new regulations as Guidelines rather than straight-up Rules. That meaning that they are highly supported, yet not exactly absolute. So exceptions CAN be made. That's not too Farfetch'd, is it? Because what if there is an instance where you have one pokemon that struggles against many threats. And so it's given a Signature that gives it an edge, passing it goes well no problem. But then you have another, MUCH tougher pokemon that's proposed a similar or identical Signature which could end up making the pokemon nigh difficult to face for anyone! Even if it abides by the rules, you'd turn it down. Or would you...?

If we're going about looking over current signatures, I can compile a list of my own for voluntary review. Because i'm sure that I have several that already violate these new rules and I don't want to upset anyone for not getting the memo. Please let me know if you want/need me to do that.

-

Also, um...If you don't mind I would also like to volunteer for that approver Training. I like to think myself to be somewhat decent activity-wise and always wanted to be a bigger help, but I wasn't quite sure how I could go about that, but this looks up my alley. And (Unlike most) I actually enjoy looking at Signature Moves (Even if at times the flavor from some might make me...uncomfortable...) and always wonder what I could think up of myself! I doubt I qualify over my lack of experience around the league, though. But if that ever becomes a thing, I hope you take me into consideration!
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Old 05-12-2016, 01:21 PM   #113
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Don't worry, Trot. Jeri has said the new changes are guidelines rather than rules and he misspoke in the OP. He's even said that he (unlike Kush) is largely fine with giving worse 'mon better sigs!

I'd say you shouldn't compile your stuff for a review just yet, though. As much as I'd prefer a review, the conversation seems to be leaning toward a full reset at the moment, and if that's what happens you'll have simply wasted your time.
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Old 05-12-2016, 03:12 PM   #114
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Not really. If we go with a reset, you can either rewrite any of your sigs or resubmit them as is. All you really need to do, in theory, is copy and paste. But you won't be able to use them for a bit.
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:43 PM   #115
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Oh, I'm not saying that isn't the case- you're absolutely right. I'm just saying it would be a waste of Trot's time to compile all his sigs for voluntary review if there's not going to be any voluntary review, then have the reset announced and have to look through them all AGAIN to decide which ones he should resubmit.

Anyway, while I know I've already said a lot about what course of action we should take, if we ultimately opt for a full reset, I'd like to say a few things about my thoughts on a submission limit.

A hard sig limit seems really arbitrary to me. My Gyarados's sig, which amounts to "GYarados automatically uses Roar the moment it enters the battlefield" takes a lot less effort to evaluate than my monstrosity of an Electrode sig, for example. Additionally, it just doesn't make sense to me to have a hard limit pre-set when we have no idea how many sig approvers we'll have working. 1? 2? Even 3? Jeri, Connor, and Kush can handle more than just Jeri. The limit shouldn't be the same. Additionally, it's not the fault of the community if whoever is doing sigs gets lazy at one point and skips doing them for a month or two. If whoever's doing sigs can't be assed to approve my 15 until they're two months late, I've gotten 15 approved in the time I should have been able to get almost my entire squad approved.

I can think of a bunch options:

A: Set a hard limit of 15 signatures per approval cycle. This seems like a bad idea to me for reasons mentioned above.
B: Set a hard limit of 15 signatures per MONTH. This way the community won't be punished for the shortcomings of the sig approver.
C: Set a flexible limit. 10-15 Signatures per month, per sig approver. Same as B, but it also makes it so the limit accounts for the amount of man power we have.
D: Set a flexible Word Count limit rather than a sig limit. A Signature Submissions post can't exceed 10,000-15,000 words per month, per sig approver, EXCLUDING biographies. This takes into account everything C does, but also helps balance it out so people with incredibly simple, 30 second approval sigs can get more done in a month than people like Slash who have sigs the size of a small novel.
E: No limit. Probably a bad idea right now given a reset would cause a flooding of hundreds of sigs, but it's likely the best option once the dust has settled.

Personally, I think we should go with either C or D followed by a shift to E once things calm down.

Any thoughts/options I didn't think of?
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:48 PM   #116
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Honestly it's the same workload either way and as I've previously stated, making peopled forced to have siglrss 'mon for an extended period of time because of any form of schedule is just an outright bad idea. Let people submit whatever amount they want and the approvers will look over them. Realistically the approvers may take a bit of time to do so, but as one of the goals is to get approvers that do thinhs quickly I think the total overhaul will still take the least amount of time this way.
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Old 05-12-2016, 05:54 PM   #117
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I originally thought a submission cap would be a good idea, but Slash has actually convinced me otherwise. His argument makes a lot of sense. Instead, I have another proposal.

Obviously, with the Reset, we all lose all our sigs. We've all been saying that this would stop people with potentially broken sigs stomping people who have no sigs, which would happen if we didn't all get reviewed in one go. But if sigs go live as soon as they're approved, won't we have what amounts to the same issue? Clearly they won't all be done in one go. No matter how you spin it, there will be way too many for that. So I propose that we have no approved sigs go live until approvers finish sorting through all of them. It may seem like a rather obvious idea, but I don't remember it being said.
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Old 05-12-2016, 05:55 PM   #118
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I originally thought a submission cap would be a good idea, but Slash has actually convinced me otherwise. His argument makes a lot of sense. Instead, I have another proposal.

Obviously, with the Reset, we all lose all our sigs. We've all been saying that this would stop people with potentially broken sigs stomping people who have no sigs, which would happen if we didn't all get reviewed in one go. But if sigs go live as soon as they're approved, won't we have what amounts to the same issue? Clearly they won't all be done in one go. No matter how you spin it, there will be way too many for that. So I propose that we have no approved sigs go live until approvers finish sorting through all of them. It may seem like a rather obvious idea, but I don't remember it being said.
Or just do a no sigs match as a special and allowable rule. You can request the match to not have sigs.
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:00 PM   #119
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Oh, yeah, totally on board with Savvy here. When it comes time for the next lookover on sigs, threads are locked, and once they're all looked at, threads are unlocked. Only once the threads are unlocked do the sigs go, shall we say, "live"

EDIT: oh, and I would also like to volunteer as tribute. I know I ain't super active right now, that's mostly the depression, but sigs are something about which I actually have passion, so that'd hook me in better and would also end up making me more active.
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:29 PM   #120
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>Savvy/Slash

While I suppose that would work, I dunno, I really don't think it's for the best to do it that way. We'll all be knew to writing sigs under these new guidelines. We're gonna fuck them up pretty consistently at first. Why on Earth would we want another wave of rejections only slightly smaller than the last one where months on end were spent waiting in vain? If we lock the threads until everything's done, people could get their shit rejected, know the small tweak they have to make, and yet still have to wait months to even resubmit. That's ridiculous, to me. Far better, imo, to spread it out over several approvals- that way when everyone's still getting their feet wet, instead of having 32/60 of their mon rejected and then having to wait 4+ months to resubmit the other 28, they'll have 7/15 rejected, and be able to submit those 7 AND 8 new ones for approval that next month.

Besides, not everyone is going to write sigs for their entire squad in one go. Locking the thread and refusing to accept new submissions for months is totally inconsiderate to those who have large squads and/or little time. If you think my review schedule is preposterous, how on Earth can you expect everyone in the ASB to be able to sig their entire squads in the blink of an eye? It makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:01 PM   #121
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Minimising the initial workload through a temporary cap would mean that the first few batches get looked over much quicker. This allows people to find their feet and vastly improve their approval percentage, which will ultimately mean people get back up to speed quicker.

The cap in my eyes should not remain permanently. Just have it be 15 per member for the first three rounds of submission while everyone is finding their feet and lift it from there. The initial period has to be the quickest and smoothest handling.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:21 PM   #122
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Or we could make it a third of your squad total ;) to benefit us with squadrons

^ this isn't a serious idea
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Old 05-13-2016, 12:36 AM   #123
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Agreed that for this initial rush we'll need a cap and then afterwards me can lift it.
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Old 05-13-2016, 12:44 AM   #124
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But yeah, we'll work on the selection for approvers when it comes to that point. For now, we're just getting the system hashed out.
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Old 05-13-2016, 01:48 AM   #125
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These rules are still bad
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