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Old 03-16-2017, 11:57 AM   #201
Stealthy
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Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Yeah honestly if you aren't reffing it being knocked out after getting hit you're not reffing well. The only valid complaint there honestly is that Ghosts can use it while invisible (not that invisible necessarily makes it broken, but there are situations where it does make Pain Split extremely good). I don't agree with it counting as a healing move either: any Pokemon with Pain Split and another healing move will find that Pain Split is massively devalued because Pain Split is mostly unreliable, and I've literally never seen a match where Pain Split was used twice by the same Pokemon.
I don't think Pain Split would be devalued since it has a good niche over other recovery moves: it also does damage. I don't think the argument against Pain Split being use-limited is really unique to the move. Applies mostly the same to the one recovery move rule in general. It's a reasonable argument though.

Pain Split recovers health. It is a recovery move. Simple as that, even if it's also a draining move. I think the argument asks to change the rules for recovery moves than anything specific to Pain Split.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:30 PM   #202
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Why would we ever want to take away physically oriented mons only reliable answer to ethereal ghosts?
Squad better or thank your lord and savior Hidden Power for its continued existence.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:39 PM   #203
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Squad better or thank your lord and savior Hidden Power for its continued existence.
Don't forget Round.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:46 PM   #204
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>squad better

So literally don't use physically oriented mons against people with ghosts? Because almost all ghosts have some form of trapping now. I don't think it's a good idea to fuck over these Pokemon just because you don't like that substitute has counterplay :p

And I'd love to see the recovery limit done away with. At least revised.

Edit: also by stealthy's logic drain punch needs to be capped too. Shows just how silly the current way we do recovery is imo
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:29 PM   #205
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And dealing with the recovery rule is something for not this thread. So move it to TO or Discord, make a proposal, run it by some competent people like Emi, Sneaze, and Connor, then bring it to Jeri.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:43 PM   #206
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For the record I am heavily of the opinion that the recovery rule should only apply to moves that recover large amounts quickly and thus are difficult to disrupt. Putting Pain Split there devalues the move entirely as it just won't be used near ever for fear of getting interrupted and wasting your single recovery for like good health. And yes that even applies to going second since it breaks all forms of debilitating status save freeze and nobody knows how their ref will handle any given situation.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:26 PM   #207
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And dealing with the recovery rule is something for not this thread. So move it to TO or Discord, make a proposal, run it by some competent people like Emi, Sneaze, and Connor, then bring it to Jeri.
Js, this is absolutely the thread for a discussion on that. Not only is it talking about a rule touted in move descripts in the move descript review thread, the OP actually says that discussion on move-related rules is fair game here xp
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:52 PM   #208
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seeing snorby's post on the recovery cap thing, i came up with a suggestion that might be an ok starting point.

Perhaps increasing the cap from one "direct healing move" to up to 25% of the user's health (at 6/9 that's around two recovers). Gives some more room for healing back up, while preventing insane things like spamming recover or roost.

I don't have much experience with game balance, but i think this could be a good idea. If not, an explanation of why not would be nice please. I need to get into understanding this stuff more.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:54 PM   #209
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Ah. Fair play then.

Also, Mean Look being able to block switches in progress doesn't make Block pointless. A) Block should just be better at it, because that's basically how the move was (is?) designed, and B) move distribution. Primarily B. Like, compare the charts. Almost every pokemon that knows Block will not care that Mean Look is better, because they don't have Mean Look to play with. As long as Block is useful, they're okay. That was always the problem: not that Mean Look was better than Block, but because Block couldn't do anything.

To compare to the Mega Drain issue you brought up, Mega Drain being rendered almost entirely irrelevant by Giga Drain isn't an issue if a lot of pokemon have Mega Drain but not Giga Drain. But since, hilariously, way more pokemon have Giga Drain but not Mega Drain than the other way around (ty tutors), it's a relevant thing. Although I think Mega Drain does have the niche where it can be used twice as offtype but Giga Drain can't... but that's not really relevant given the distribution.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:08 PM   #210
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If you have a problem with Foresight, you probably need to reconsider your battle style.

>Mega Drain

It does better at a distance than Giga Drain!!!!
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:39 PM   #211
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>Stealthy

You're mostly right, my bad, I should have clarified better. My point wasn't supposed to just be about Mean Look, it's also about the partial trapping moves, which recently started blocking switching as well. Mean Look only overlaps with Block on like 2 lines, but it's ~25 non-legendary lines when you include the partial trapping moves, which I feel is a significant enough portion to be worth, at the very least, a note in the descriptions of these moves that their chance of success at blocking a switch as it happens is substantially lower than that of Block.
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:47 PM   #212
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Return (XX) -- The user relates to its current happiness state, becoming 'energized' depending on how content it is and how well it's doing in the battle. It then uses this energy to deliver a strong hit, dealing more damage the happier it is, ranging between good and significant damage for equivalent energy.

Frustration (XX) -- The user releases any frustration it has accumulated this match, through misses, damage, or general annoyance, in a savage beat down on the opponent for considerable damage on average. Pokémon who are fresh or have a significant advantage over their foe will deal much less damage with this move than those who are losing, beaten, or have had a lot of bad luck.
First off before I suggest anything major, Frustration doesn't even do the same max potential damage as Return. If anything, can we get them to do the same amount of potential damage?

So, I was wondering if we could buff these two moves, and give them a bit of clarification. As they stand now, there's no real reason to actually use them over other moves. Perhaps a damage buff to maybe Major at max for both, and clarify the damage range for frustration better? Or maybe a little bit higher of a damage cap, but with energy efficiency depending on if they're super happy or frustrated respectively?
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:50 PM   #213
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Explosion (NO) -- The user sacrifices a substantial amount and energy to cause an explosion centralized at the user itself. The amount of damage dealt is directly proportional to the amount of energy used for the attack, though it lessens somewhat on the fringes of the explosion, being between four and ten meters from the center, based on the power and the size of the user. The amount of power put into Explosion can be anywhere between one to two Hyper Beam's worth, Quick Charge being a Hyper Beam and Full Charge capping at two, with Mid Charge around one and a half. The charge time is proportional to the energy used, with a Hyper Beam's worth of energy taking a fairly short time with the full charge taking a good deal of time. Since Explosion involves a much higher concentration of energy, it is extremely dangerous to the user, possibly fainting the user. Explosion will also cause more damage to the arena the more energy used, typically leaving a significant crater at the explosion site and causing high collateral damage. Explosion will always cost more energy than damage done.
Hi so this is exploitable in such a way that you can just explode forever and get a free draw in like one or two rounds. That should probably be fixed.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:04 PM   #214
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Yeah, I'm going to second that.
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PASBL Stats

TL 4 (35-21-6)
Current owner of the Onslaught Badge and the Monolith Badge
Previous owner of the Indurate Badge and the Dual Wing Badge (Pre-scrap)
216 TP - 84 KOs - 20 SP (11 SP Debt to Machamp-X)
(W/L/D and stats recompiled as of 4/25/17)
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:21 AM   #215
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See: these two people exploiting said move to hell and back.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:42 AM   #216
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God, I thought Ek and I were terrible when we spammed CC 1v1s to level up in Creamery Command, but that, that's a next level evil you two. Shame.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:54 AM   #217
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God, I thought Ek and I were terrible when we spammed CC 1v1s to level up in Creamery Command, but that, that's a next level evil you two. Shame.
Hey with those someone had to lose, this was a draw therefore they are much worse than us :P
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Well I don't know I wanted to deal damage and Starmie is inorganic :X
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Starmie is a starfish, it is not inorganic :p
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Kush I'm TL1. How am I supposed to know things if you don't tell me them?
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It's a starfish.



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I have 1 SP. Retroactively claiming the SP tax on all the things I did whilst LO.

I now have 1 SP.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:03 AM   #218
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I think you mean the best reffing of all time ever.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:03 AM   #219
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I made it clear in Discord, but I'll point out here that I didn't intend on and haven't actually added anything related to this match.

Having said that, I do approve of the pure comedic gold that Emi spun this into.
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PASBL Stats

TL 4 (35-21-6)
Current owner of the Onslaught Badge and the Monolith Badge
Previous owner of the Indurate Badge and the Dual Wing Badge (Pre-scrap)
216 TP - 84 KOs - 20 SP (11 SP Debt to Machamp-X)
(W/L/D and stats recompiled as of 4/25/17)
Observe. Adapt. Evolve.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:32 AM   #220
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Clicked on that link. Expected Bar Match.


...the fuck
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:32 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Altocharizard55 View Post
I made it clear in Discord, but I'll point out here that I didn't intend on and haven't actually added anything related to this match.

Having said that, I do approve of the pure comedic gold that Emi spun this into.
Yeah same lol this was just for funsies on my end. If Alto wanted to get his TL5 from this I definitely wouldnt have stopped him though
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Last edited by Snorby; 04-28-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:29 PM   #222
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Quote:
Counter (NO) -- The user surrounds itself with a glowing red aura, preparing to absorb any kinetic energy that it comes in contact with. If the next move that hits it is a physical attack (i.e. it is solid and can break through a Light Screen), it will absorb its energy while still taking slightly reduced damage. This causes the aura to condense and fuel an extremely forceful typeless counter move, using the user's weight and the force to immediately strike back, dealing exactly x2 times the damage of the power of the move levied against it (NOT taking into account any type modifiers). If the user is damaged by a Special attack during this period, the attack will fail. This move uses light energy plus roughly x1.75 times the energy of the attack reflected. Repeated uses of this move will make it likely to fail, with each use roughly 25% more likely to fail.

Mirror Coat (NO) -- The user surrounds itself with a glowing multicolored aura, preparing to absorb any free energy that it comes in contact with. If the next move that hits it is a special attack (i.e. it is energy-based and can break through a Reflect), it will absorb its energy while still taking slightly reduced damage. This causes the aura to condense and burst forth in a wave of typeless energy that is directed right at the foe, dealing exactly x2 times the damage of the power of the move levied against it (NOT taking into account any type modifiers). If the user is damaged by a Physical attack during this period, the attack will fail. This move uses light energy plus roughly x1.75 times the energy of the attack reflected. Repeated uses of this move will make it likely to fail, with each use roughly 25% more likely to fail.
Bolded lines should read "This move uses light energy plus roughly x1.75 times the damage of the attack reflected." to account for efficient moves such as Hex, Facade, etc.
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PASBL Stats

TL 4 (35-21-6)
Current owner of the Onslaught Badge and the Monolith Badge
Previous owner of the Indurate Badge and the Dual Wing Badge (Pre-scrap)
216 TP - 84 KOs - 20 SP (11 SP Debt to Machamp-X)
(W/L/D and stats recompiled as of 4/25/17)
Observe. Adapt. Evolve.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:39 PM   #223
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Although the energy efficiency would caused by this would be beneficial since neither move sees much usage and it would possibly provide reason to use them
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
Well I don't know I wanted to deal damage and Starmie is inorganic :X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Starmie is a starfish, it is not inorganic :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
Kush I'm TL1. How am I supposed to know things if you don't tell me them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
It's a starfish.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
I have 1 SP. Retroactively claiming the SP tax on all the things I did whilst LO.

I now have 1 SP.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:12 PM   #224
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"light energy plus enaergy equal to roughly x1.75 times the damage of the attack reflected"

Don't mix terms it makes small children cry.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:05 PM   #225
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Energy, even.
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PASBL Stats

TL 4 (35-21-6)
Current owner of the Onslaught Badge and the Monolith Badge
Previous owner of the Indurate Badge and the Dual Wing Badge (Pre-scrap)
216 TP - 84 KOs - 20 SP (11 SP Debt to Machamp-X)
(W/L/D and stats recompiled as of 4/25/17)
Observe. Adapt. Evolve.
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