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Old 01-28-2016, 07:47 AM   #151
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I already suggested a rewrite of these moves to Jeri maybe he can amalgamate them
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:01 AM   #152
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Use TKF's suggestion, don't bother making it Rock exclusive unless you think people sigging it would be a problem (it shouldn't be). Having quickly checked the only Pokemon which get it outside of the Rock type who would appreciate it would be like, the Conkeldurr line. Swampert is too damn light to use it effectively.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:02 AM   #153
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It is in essence a rock typed body slam lacking the paralysis chance, unless we would like to add that tidbit in there.
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:39 PM   #154
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I think we avoid the paralysis chance, i think that would make the move to strong. If we wanted to give it a chance to do something, just to lift it a bit more, a 10 or 20% flinch chance or something like that could work.
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:03 PM   #155
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Rock Throw (RK) - The user picks up a rock or piece of compressed land from the surrounding area and chucks it at the target. Though this move only deals decent damage, it is a relatively fast move and travels rather quickly. While non-Rock types must use earth from the arena, Rock-types can generate rocks from Rock energy. This move will typically use decent energy.

Rock Slide (RK) -- The user summons boulders from the ground in front of them and proceeds to either launch them in the form of an avalanche (the default form) or physically strike the foe. While Rock Slide usually deals considerable damage, particularly solid or large rocks may deal slightly more. Rock Slide generally uses considerable energy, but this can vary from solid-heavy depending on the arena's toughness and the availability of boulders. Rock type Pokémon may cause boulders to appear at greater distances, allowing them to attack remotely in appropriate arenas, and may also create boulders themselves using considerable energy. Non Rock types may only use this attack in arenas containing boulders.

Spikes (GD) -- The user spins around, expending good energy and spreading small spikes all over the arena. Spikes can either be localized around the opponent, where they will stay above ground, or spread around the field, where they will bury under the surface. If above the surface, they will become a hazard, making it difficult for Pokémon to walk or run without stepping on a sharp spike. If they step on a Spike, they will take light damage and be slowed temporarily. If the spikes go underground, they will act as traps. Whenever the opponent sends out a new Pokémon, they will explode, dealing good damage. Spikes can also be sent directly at the target, dealing good damage upon contact, though they will not disperse as widely and hinder the target less.

Light Screen (PS) -- In its default form, using considerable energy, the user creates a large, thin, translucent square wall of energy a short distance in front of it, relative to its size. It is large enough to protect them from attacks and will not exceed the height and width of the user. It blocks special blows very well, capable of withstanding an extreme amount of damage, but shatters easily under the pressure of physical attacks. Physical projectiles such as Mud Bomb will easily break through a Light Screen. Despite being translucent, it has reflective properties, allowing it to reflect back light-based elements of attacks. The wall will stay with the user until it is destroyed, but can be moved out of the user's way temporarily in order to attack. Alternatively, using major energy, the user briefly surrounds itself with a cubic energy shield. For the next five rounds, whenever the user is hit with a special attack, the damage received is reduced by 25%. Physical attacks will pass through unaffected and have no effect upon the shield. Regardless of the version used, if the user is switched out before the shield vanishes, the replacement Pokémon will gain the benefits.

Reflect (PS) -- In its default form, using considerable energy, the user creates a large, thin, translucent square wall of energy a short distance in front of it, relative to its size. It is large enough to protect them from attacks and will not exceed the height and width of the user. It blocks physical blows very well, capable of withstanding an extreme amount of damage, but shatters easily under the pressure of special attacks. Physical projectiles such as Mud Bomb will be easily walled by Reflect. Despite being translucent, it has reflective properties, allowing it to reflect back light-based elements of attacks. The wall will stay with the user until it is destroyed, but can be moved out of the user's way temporarily in order to attack. Alternatively, using major energy, the user briefly surrounds itself with a cubic energy shield. For the next five rounds, whenever the user is hit with a physical attack, the damage received is reduced by 25%. Special attacks will pass through unaffected and will have no effect upon the shield. Regardless of the version used, if the user is switched out before the shield vanishes, the replacement Pokémon will gain the benefits.

Barrier (PS) -- Using significant energy, the user creates a large, thin, translucent square wall of energy a short distance in front of it, relative to its size. It is large enough to protect them from attacks and will not exceed the height and width of the user. It is capable of withstanding a major amount of damage from all attacks. The wall will stay with the user until it is destroyed, but can be moved out of the user's way temporarily in order to attack. If the user is switched out before the shield vanishes, the replacement Pokémon will gain the benefits.
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Old 01-28-2016, 07:05 PM   #156
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Woooo Jeri.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:24 AM   #157
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Jeri is a hero.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:54 AM   #158
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The current full description or rule (if applicable), highlighting any problem areas

Bounce (XX) -- The user uses its own body to bounce or jump as high as possible, and landing on the opponent for solid damage, depending on the Pokémon, height of jump, etc.

The issues with the move (in bullet points or short paragraphs)
No issues per say

The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the moves yourself)

-The same treatment as the other dodge/hit moves within ASB; give flying type Pokemon the ability to embed the attack with flying energy.
-Possibly add a paralysis chance similar to how body slam works to mimic the ingame effect.
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:59 AM   #159
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Gyarados approves.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:12 AM   #160
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See, I'm not too sure here. What fliers get Bounce that don't already get Fly, which does basically the same thing but with a bit more damage? It's literally Mantine, Jumpluff and Gyarados (plus pre-evos). Of these, Mantine and Gyarados are plenty good enough as is, and in the case of the former it has other dodge-and-hit Flying moves (Aerial Ace, Acrobatics), so it's debatable as to whether it would actually be of any use. The only Pokemon line seeing any great benefit from this is Jumpluff's, and let's be honest, that's not redeeming that line at any point. Well Gyarados could probably use a Flying STAB, tbh, but Flying!Bounce is not going to help it much.

I'm not against them per se, but I don't really see the point.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:15 AM   #161
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Neither Aerial Ace nor Acrobatics are dodge and hit moves.

Bounce can also be very useful, and Pokemon like Jumpluff who have almost no Flying STAB would appreciate the help
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:46 AM   #162
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No this is quite a good suggestion and I feel we should have looked at this earlier. All for it.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:48 AM   #163
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Well, maybe not in the desc but Aerial Ace and Acro can be used for dodging, and often hitting as well depending on the case (and the ref).
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:53 AM   #164
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Pretty sure it's been ruled several times that they can't be used that way 99% of the time.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:57 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironthunder View Post
Well, maybe not in the desc but Aerial Ace and Acro can be used for dodging, and often hitting as well depending on the case (and the ref).
please remember to follow the OP as to how you want moves to be adjusted.

I recall that Connor et all LOs changed it because dodging was no longer part of the description as it was previously. They made them two completely different moves with their current version: Aerial Ace hardly misses, and Acrobatics interacts with items which are more popular now than they were when the move was first written.
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Old 01-29-2016, 01:55 PM   #166
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It's bad when I mini mod and I used to be a mini mod.

Stop it.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:23 PM   #167
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Quote:
Ember (FI) -- The user spins around and fires fire out all around or spits out a few embers, dealing moderate damage. The fire that is released is mostly light, and does not do as much damage, because the fire is not concentrated at one point.


Powder Snow (IC) -- The user sprays a freezing snow from its mouth, covering the opponent lightly. This snow does light damage, but extremely chills the opponent and has a 10% of partial freezing.


Thunder Shock (EL) -- The user charges off a small burst of electricity, in numerous small tendrils that spread out in the direction fired. High accuracy, but low power, dealing moderate damage at best. Also has a 10% chance of inducing paralysis.


Issues:
Ember and Thundershock are both incredibly yawn worthy and are very little used (unless you are an Arcanine versus a Glalie). Powder Snow is very weak.

Suggestions:
Increase the power of Powder Snow to moderate. I don't know why its light damage in the first place.

In addition, since we have three moderate power moves of Fire, Ice, and Electric, one thing that I thought of to make the moves more interesting was to have them play off of their respective status. Ember would aggrevate burns and make them do more damage in the round, as well as potentially making a burn more disruptive / hindering in general, Thundershock couldn't dispel paralysis and might be able to keep it constant (e.g. decrease the effects that time has on paralysis) or potentially make it worse. Powder Snow would make the ice take more time to thaw (Freeze is a little yawn-worthy, to be fair).

Was just something I was thinking of.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:50 PM   #168
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Powder Snow is actually pretty sexy as is, with the "extremely chilling" bit for light energy being pretty neat and the real purpose of the move as opposed to damage. The other two I agree could use a bone thrown to them.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:55 PM   #169
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Suggest Thunder Shock be given mild interrupt chance and Ember given chance to be used as short term arena hazard i.e. Spikes.

All moderate damage yes.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:06 PM   #170
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I'm with Miror on Powder Snow, and yeah the other two could use a neat effect added on. For Ember, I feel like rather than burn aggravation (a fire attack on a burn already should be aggravating it), making it better at arena damage would carve out a nice niche for it.

Thundershock idk. I don't feel great about Thundershock being able to keep an opponent locked down in paralysis for abuse reasons (Gen I Wrap anybody?) but the general idea seems like a good direction if we can make it work. My only other idea is a weaker flash-like effect.

Edit: Aaaaand the Kush ninja.
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:19 PM   #171
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I mean, Powder Snow doesn't have to be boosted to Moderate damage, I'm just not clear why its so low in damage in the first place. You can still make it moderate damage and keep the purpose of the move (who uses a moderate power move for damage unless its like Poison Sting on something without off-type), but it allows the move to compare a little better with Icy Wind. A lot of people still use Icy Wind and Blizzard over Powder Snow. That's just what I think, not trying to argue.

Quote:
Thundershock idk. I don't feel great about Thundershock being able to keep an opponent locked down in paralysis for abuse reasons (Gen I Wrap anybody?) but the general idea seems like a good direction if we can make it work. My only other idea is a weaker flash-like effect.
Yeah, I wanted to find a way to have Thundershock interact with paralysis in a way that would be good. I don't think most people would ref Thundershock lessening paralysis anyways, but I didn't think that would be enough. Also the other suggestions are very, very bleh although they could be worked in.

Re: Ember, I meant something that was more than the typical Fire-type move. Yes, hot things make burns hurt more. But Ember in particular would have a more potent effect at it. Similar to Powder Snow! Arena destruction isn't a bad touch but I feel that it still won't be reffed well (at least in its current form, its noted to be a weaker flame).
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Old 01-29-2016, 03:47 PM   #172
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I want to point out the Incinerate is supposed to be the one that does an arena damage bit. And it's barely higher, at good.

I could see the embers being a more pain-related kind of thing, that could be fun.

Thundershock, I could see a bit of a disruption thing.

I also want Powder Snow to stay as-is as well.


Do we have anything down about lower-power moves usually being more accurate? Like, I think we may have something about them being quicker (then again we might not), but making them notably more accurate may also help a bit.
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:28 PM   #173
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Them being quicker should be fairly intuitive.
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Old 01-29-2016, 04:55 PM   #174
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Yes, I agree. But some might not do them as such if it's not explicitly stated. A lot of things should be intuitive, but that doesn't mean they don't need to be stated for the record.

Should don't mean is
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:13 PM   #175
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If we're seriously doing this, can we please bump Water Gun back down, with the addition of an interesting effect? It has no business being significant, nor does it have any actual evidence of that (it beating Fire moves in the animé is a trope not an aspect of game design), and the majority of stuff that gets it also gets Surf, Waterfall and/or Aqua Tail.
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