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Old 12-22-2015, 09:42 AM   #101
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Hone Claws (DK) --Using moderate energy, the user sharpens its claws by running them together or against a tough surface. This increases their attack somewhat and allows for more accurate blows.

Flatter (DK) -- Using moderate energy, the user glows red and moves about in an odd fashion, flattering the target and inflating their ego. This makes the target likely to disobey orders to use defensive or evasive moves. The target's Special Attack stat is raised by 10% for five rounds, with each subsequent boost to this stat being 25% less effective. Success rate is akin to Charm, in that the victim's mental state and the current battle must be taken into account. Techniques such as Calm Mind will diminish the effects of Flatter and reduce the boost.
Why are these Dark? Hone Claws is just a stat buffer with Dark attached to it. Same as Nasty Plot, which is arguably more of a Dark move, and that's rejigged to Normal in ASB. And Flatter's just a Swagger for the SpAtk. I don't see why these are Dark moves other than 'Ingame says so', and even then that doesn't explain Nasty Plot.

Proposal: Make them Normal typed.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:17 AM   #102
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Agree.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:06 AM   #103
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Completely agree.

May also look at things like Charm and Acid Armour (makes sense for Grimer line, but Vaporeon uses it to melt in water and Slugma in lava)
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:40 PM   #104
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Drill Run (GR) --The user covers its claws, beak or horn with a coating of Ground energy. They then charge the foe, spinning like a drill or causing their horn to spin, dealing considerable damage. It can also be used as an enhanced and higher-speed method of digging, able to break through tougher ground, but it will deal only good damage if used to hit the foe.

Also I'll make those both NO.

EDIT: I cleaned out this thread and threw all of the new stuff in Errata.
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:40 PM   #105
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That's still listed as GR, Jeri. Needs to be GD. Otherwise looks good.
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Old 12-29-2015, 04:56 PM   #106
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So this came up and I realized we could very easily make this move not suck.

Endure (NO) -- The user grits its teeth (so to speak), and bears down for the remainder of the round, simply trying to lessen damage against it, or possibly stay conscious for the duration. Energy usage for the move starts out at relatively little, but increases depending on the damage it would have taken. Multiple uses lowers the success rate, by much more if the previous Endure(s) lasted through significant damage. Any attack that is used in conjunction with Endure has a much lower chance of working, with modifiers dependent on the energy usage consumed during Endure.

The problem with the move is that it's essentially useless.

My suggestion is that Endure halves all damage taken during the round it's used, and the energy cost for it is equivalent to the amount of damage that it protected the user from. Other moves can be used during endure but are particularly exerting, a la Disable. If needed, we can make energy use scale up like Protect.
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Old 12-29-2015, 05:01 PM   #107
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Before I forget again...

King's Shield (ST) - The user arms itself with its shield, expending a significant amount of energy to protect against incoming attacks. This mode can be held as long as ordered, but will expend significant energy for every subsequent move held longer than two attacks' worth. Any enemy that comes into contact with Aegislash while King's Shield is active while using an attack will suffer 25% recoil damage from the attack used, and have their physical strength reduced for the following round from the jarring impact of crashing against the shield. King's Shield will not protect against non-damaging techniques. The increase in energy is shared with Protect and Spiky Shield.

HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT THIS IS WAY TOO GOOD? FLAT SIGNIFICANT ENERGY TO JUST TELL YOUR OPPONENT TO GO SUCK A DICK FOR A ROUND? AND YOU CAN STILL ATTACK AFTER? HELL NO. PLEASE MAKE THIS ENERGY SCALE IN SOME WAY.
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Old 12-29-2015, 05:23 PM   #108
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It's not really our fault that Gamefreak invented Endure but that's a cool idea.

Don't cite Disable, though, Disable is stupid.

Lol King's Shield.
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:23 PM   #109
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Endure really could work like the games, if we really wanted to.
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:23 PM   #110
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I mean yeah it can work like the games but why when that would mean it's still garbage
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:25 PM   #111
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Endure is like trying to fix Last Resort or Bide. They are inherently boring dull concepts that don't translate into well balanced ASB gameplay. See also: trying to differentiate the endless variations of Tackle.
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:31 PM   #112
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Not if we let moves happen after it. Would either be useless, even the odds or allow for a come from behind victory. It could be circumvented with clever conditionals as well so it wouldn't be infallible. But if we need to balance it more we can also make some moves such as feint overpower it and/or make it that if you take more than significant? levels of damage make it fail.
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Old 01-02-2016, 05:41 PM   #113
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Weather Ball (Various) -- The user collects the current weather in a ball of energy and sends it at the victim, dealing good damage. In the sun, the energy ball is very hot, made of fire energy; in rain, it's water, etc.

Really not a major issue, but it does not say what the type is if indoors/neutral weather/etc. It should probably state it's Normal.

Also, if its type is changed, maybe like in-game, we can give it a boost? I'm not saying double it like in-game, but maybe a bump to considerable with no energy increase?
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:24 AM   #114
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Confide (XX) - Using mild energy, the user communicates a frightening, embarrassing or enraging secret to the foe, causing them to become distracted and lose their concentration, lowering their Special Attack temporarily. If the target has already had a couple of focus or mental boosts, this attack is less likely to work. Confide, like Fake Tears, may also make the opponent reconsider attacking. The victim's mental state and the current battle must be taken into account, and repeat uses are highly unlikely to interrupt.

Fake Tears (DK) -- Using moderate energy, the user pretends to cry, which may leave the victim(s) open to being attacked. Success rate is akin to Charm, in that the victim's mental state and the current battle must be taken into account.

Tail Whip (XX) -- The user goes up to the target and whips them with their tail or backside, usually dealing only minor damage. The cute nature of this move will cause most Pokémon to lower their guard and will slightly lower physical defense for a few rounds, with success rate akin to Charm. Tail Whip uses light energy.

Charm (FA) -- Using mild energy, the user makes itself look meek and vulnerable, attempting to look as cute and helpless as possible. The success of this move is dependent on a number of factors, including the cuteness of the user, the aggressiveness and mental state of the foe and the overall course of the battle. If successful, it will cause the foe to be hesitant to attack and reduce its Attack drastically until struck with an offensive move.

Anything else that says "Success rate akin to Charm"

What got my attention was that confide directed me to fake tears which directed me to charm. We really shouldn't have to look up other moves to see part of what this one does.

Proposed changes: Just explain how it is ref's discretion based on how the battle is going in each move rather than referring to Charm and maybe clarify it a little in Charm as well.
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:33 PM   #115
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Seconded.
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:38 PM   #116
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Charm and Related Attacks - Moves like Charm are largely dependent on the mental state of the Pokémon targeted. Although the exact perameter that allows these moves to work varies from move to move, nearly all moves based off Charm are more effective against calmer, less aggressive and fresher foes. Opponets that are enraged, naturally aggressive, tired or have fought for a while against the user will be less vulnerable to their effects.

The Fake Tears thing should probably be changed but this is what it's referring to.
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Old 01-03-2016, 04:52 PM   #117
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Opponets?
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:53 AM   #118
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Seed Flare (GR) -- The user calls forth energy from the earth itself, and forms a small green seed of pure energy to float in front of its face. The user then uses a great deal of energy to slam into the seed, sending it flying towards the target. The seed grows as it flies, before slamming into the target for extreme damage.
*ducks away from Muyo's wrath*

Why does Seed Flare take energy from the surroundings, then require even more energy to push in the first place? I mean, sure no one uses Seed Flare, but this is why we don't use it. Why is it not actually a flare like the name suggests?

The movie showcasing Shaymin was aired after this incarnation of Seed Flare was written but in-game it's always been a shock wave that also nearly always reduces Sp. Def (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, SKYMIN)

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The user emits a shock wave from its body to attack its target. It may harshly lower the target's Sp. Def.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie Version
Shaymin absorbs any pollutants around it into its body from the seeds on its back, causing the flowers on its head to turn purple or black, depending on how much is absorbed. Then, Shaymin's body glows light green, the flower on its head glows pink, and it explodes, creating a huge light green explosion all around it.
My proposal is that while we do keep MUYO!Seed Flare as an option, we make that one more energy efficient as well since pulling energy from nature and all from the description. Major energy for extreme damage perhaps if used this way?

On top of that, we make EXPLOSION!Seed Flare a thing. Make MUYO!Seed Flare explode on impact, with the 40% chance to debuff Sp. Def by two stages. Make an actual EXPLOSION!Seed Flare with the shock waves of doom and extreme Grass damage + debuffs.

Finally, have it actually purify the arena of any poisons and pollution in general to release water and light. Make it blind stuff nearby, provide some form of weak Water Sport for the round. Things like that.

Too much? Probably. But please please please, make Seed Flare actually Seed Flare.

And then we have Aeroblast.

Quote:
Aeroblast (FL) -- The user powers up and releases a powerful blast of air and flying energy that inflicts heavy damage to the target.
It's really plain, maybe add in a clause that actually says "This move really blows shit to kingdom come", make it have destructive properties like wrecking the arena as well. I really have nothing else to say about this since we have no crits in ASB. Maybe have it bypass defensive boosts?
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:42 PM   #119
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I drafted a couple Last Resorts that I think might be fun.

Last Resort (NO) -- The user surrounds itself with a harsh glow before delivering a powerful attack that deals massive damage to the target. This move can only be used if the Pokemon has just consecutively used at least 3 offensive moves on the target, even if they were not successful.

Last Resort (NO) -- The user surrounds itself with a harsh glow before delivering a powerful attack that deals massive damage to the target. This move can only be used if the Pokemon has missed at least 3 offensive moves on the target this match.

I sort of left the details of the attack vague because the game and anime really don't do a good job of describing it at all. I'm pretty sure it has to be a physical attack though, not a suicide Hyper Beam. There is a distinctive pattern of stars in every game, but I have no idea how this translates to actual physical descriptions.

I don't see a problem with giving Last Resort the Skull Bash/Iron Head/Sky Attack treatment. It should have something to differentiate it from other Massive attacks.

Speaking of which:

Quote:
Payback (DK) -- This move is only usable when the user is going second. The user waits for the opponent to finish all of its attacks for the round, and then surrounds themselves in a dark aura before slamming back into the target. For every attack that the user was struck with, the power of the dark aura increases, dealing good damage if it is hit with one move, dealing heavy damage if it is hit with a two move combo, and dealing massive damage if it is hit with a three move combo. Energy usage is proportional to the aura's power.

Revenge (FT) -- This move is only usable when the user is going second. The user waits for the opponent to finish all of its attacks for the round, and then surrounds themselves in a glowing red aura before slamming back into the target. For every attack that the user was struck with, the power of the aura increases, dealing good damage if it is hit with one move, dealing heavy damage if it is hit with a two move combo, and dealing massive damage if it is hit with a three move combo. Energy usage is proportional to the aura's power.
WTDTFCHB? Is that you?

this move just seems really uncomfortable to use to me, and it doesn't make sense that these are perfectly similar (but Avalanche is not). Payback in game isn't contingent on damage anyway, just more powerful if you go second period.

My suggestion would be to make Revenge more like Bide, but with a damage-reducing effect instead of a status-blocking effect, and either always Fighting or always Normal, depending on the type of the user. Then amp up the damage a bit more.

Revenge (NO) -- Taking a defensive stance, the user endures all attacks against it and remains in one location, making no attempt to dodge. It takes 20% reduced damage from all attacks used on it during this time. As it endures, a red aura surrounds it completely. This aura absorbs the power of attacks levied against it, growing in size as it does so, and breaks after absorbing the power of a major amount of of damage or greater. When it breaks, the energy absorbed is condensed into the user's physical body and unleashed in a powerful physical blow. This attack deals typeless damage equal to twice the power of the energy it has absorbed. Revenge absorbs attack power before the user actually takes damage, meaning that it absorbs only the base power of the attacks (including the attacker's boosts) and does not take account of type effectiveness against the Revenge user or any defensive boosts that the Revenge user may have. Energy usage for a Revenge is initially neutral, costing the user energy equal to the power of the attack. For each successive use, the energy cost increases by 25% in the same way as Protect. Creating the initial Revenge aura uses only minor energy. A Revenge aura can only be maintained for up to one round if it is not broken by attacks and will dissipate harmlessly if it absorbs less than a major amount of damage for no energy cost.

I'm not sure what to do about Payback but I'd recommend that its damage be reduced and that it basically be a retaliation attack. "If the user took at least X damage this round..." etc.

And last but not least, I did a version of Endure that could work.

Endure (NO) -- The user quickly centers itself and reduces the damage it takes this round by 10%. The user cannot suffer more than [Considerable] damage this round from attacks and will ignore any direct damage it takes that goes over this amount. While Enduring, the user cannot dodge attacks, but is still capable of using moves. Damage dealt by a Pokemon who is Enduring will be reduced by 30%. The Endure aura also shields the user from the secondary effects of attacks and prevents it from being afflicted with any statuses while it is held.

I considered adding in a clause for Doubles but I seem to remember something of a struggle in Doubles where 'mon were getting assblasted with 4 attacks per round. This might be a good way to stop that from being such a huge problem.

Considerable is almost certainly too low a ceiling for this move but I think if you go too high it sort of cheapens the move. Significant might be acceptable, but I'd prefer Endure be too powerful and then nerfed than receive a half-assed buff.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:54 PM   #120
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Rulings haven't really made too much of an impact on people reffing Stone Edge as not being boosted by Swords Dance, Curse etc. This is largely because it's written as special attack and has consistently been shown to be special in the animé.

Suggestion: Stone Edge and Rock Slide (the ones everyone gets) plus Rock Throw (lol) have the option to alternatively grab the boulders and physically stab/batter (respectively) the opponent. Evidence: Brock vs Meowth (Rock Throw, tenuous), Ash vs Cowboy Gymleader (Stone Edge).

Rock Slide is complexly written and is a bit rooted in the past so it might be best to do something like this (as an example for all of them):


Rock Slide (RK) -- The user summons boulders from the ground in front of them and proceeds to either launch them in the form of an avalanche (the default form) or physically strike the foe. While Rock Slide usually deals considerable damage, particularly solid or large rocks may deal slightly more. Rock Slide generally uses considerable energy, but this can vary from solid-heavy depending on the arena's toughness and the availability of boulders. Rock type Pokémon may cause boulders to appear at greater distances, allowing them to attack remotely in appropriate arenas, and may also create boulders themselves using considerable energy. Non Rock types may only use this attack in arenas containing boulders.


You don't really lose anything (although I would argue the remote launch thing is probably excessive) but you gain the ability for any Rock type that learns a physical boosting move to improve its STAB. Things that spring to mind include Geodude, Kabutops and Tyranitar.

With Rock Throw just CC this but lower damage/energy and with Stone Edge just say the user can grab the boulders and launch itself along with the rest of the barrage for a physical hit.


To put this in perspective what I'm basically proposing is Waterfall.
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Old 01-10-2016, 08:34 AM   #121
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The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the moves yourself)
I don't mind Kush doing it so much since he was an LO in the past but I have this rule for a reason. Please follow it.

That said, Kush, please post the current version of the move so I know what I'm looking at.

Seed Flare (GR) -- The user draws in energy from the nature around it, sucking in any unnatural or polluting influences, before releasing them in a gigantic, explosive burst of grass energy, dealing extreme damage. Since the user draws in both positive and negative energy, this move will cause the user to suffer somewhat with multiple consecutive uses. However, it will cause any pollutants or otherwise harmful forces (e.g. fire, floods, etc.) to disappear.

I don't really see myself rewriting Last Resort any time soon, sorry. I am also definitely not making a move more like Bide ever. And your version of Endure would just slow down battles, though I like the basic concept.

I'm kinda curious as to why you want to take Rock Slide and friends back to being Arena dependent. There was this huge fight to make it usable basically anywhere and now we're making it only so Rock types can? Also I know that conceptually Rock moves are all basically just "let's throw various amounts and types of rocks" but I don't really want to make the three most common moves all slightly different clones of each other.
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Old 01-10-2016, 08:51 AM   #122
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Ok.

Rock Slide (RK) -- The user strikes the ground at an angle, pulling rocks from the ground, which tumble towards the foe. While it will generally deal considerable damage, arenas with particularly solid or large rocks may allow it to deal slightly more. The amount of energy needed to perform this attack is highly variable. In arenas with soft ground or abundant rocks, the energy cost will be solid, but if the ground is particularly hard, the energy cost will rise. If there are already rocks present in the arena, the user may simply use these, using slightly less energy in the attack. Rock-typed Pokeémon may also use this attack remotely, able to use rocks within roughly battling distance, including rocks on ceilings or above ground. Alternatively, the Rock type Pokeémon may use significant energy to create a boulder in front of it, before striking it to send chunks at the foe as normal.


Rock Throw (RK) -- The user slams the ground, using good energy, bringing up a chunk of rocks, which it slams, sending it towards the foe, hitting for good damage. Slightly harder or less rocky ground will cause this move to use more energy, while softer or rockier ground will allow it to use less. The user may use rocks already in the arena as well, using less energy to execute the move.


Stone Edge (RK) -- Using significant energy, the user generates roughly 10 sharp stones forming them from Rock energy, creating two rings that float around the user, before flinging them at the foe, dealing significant damage. Rock types may alternatively form the stones by compressing the earth in the arena, lowering the energy use to considerable and speeding up the move.


So as you can see, no, they are currently still pretty arena dependent (except for by Rock types) and I am proposing we make it so that they can be physical which makes them less arena dependent. What we changed most recently was to make them more flexibly arena dependent (but still arena dependent) unless used by rocks.

Rock Slide and Rock Throw already are clones of each other (except that Rock Throw is never used) and Stone Edge is different enough. That wouldn't change.

So... I don't really understand your concerns.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:01 AM   #123
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Light Screen (PS) -- In its default form, using considerable energy, the user creates a large, thin, translucent square wall of energy 18" in front of it. It is large enough to protect them from attacks and will not exceed the height and width of the user. It blocks special blows very well, capable of withstanding an extreme amount of damage, but shatters easily under the pressure of physical attacks. Physical projectiles such as Mud Bomb will easily break through a Light Screen. Despite being translucent, it has reflective properties, allowing it to reflect back light-based elements of attacks. The wall will stay with the user until it is destroyed, but can be moved out of the user's way temporarily in order to attack. Alternatively, using major energy, the user briefly surrounds itself with a cubic energy shield. For the next five rounds, whenever the user is hit with a special attack, the damage received is reduced by 25%. Physical attacks will pass through unaffected and have no effect upon the shield. Regardless of the version used, if the user is switched out before the shield vanishes, the replacement Pokémon will gain the benefits.

Reflect (PS) -- In its default form, using considerable energy, the user creates a large, thin, translucent square wall of energy 18" in front of it. It is large enough to protect them from attacks and will not exceed the height and width of the user. It blocks physical blows very well, capable of withstanding an extreme amount of damage, but shatters easily under the pressure of special attacks. Physical projectiles such as Mud Bomb will be easily walled by Reflect. Despite being translucent, it has reflective properties, allowing it to reflect back light-based elements of attacks. The wall will stay with the user until it is destroyed, but can be moved out of the user's way temporarily in order to attack. Alternatively, using major energy, the user briefly surrounds itself with a cubic energy shield. For the next five rounds, whenever the user is hit with a physical attack, the damage received is reduced by 25%. Special attacks will pass through unaffected and will have no effect upon the shield. Regardless of the version used, if the user is switched out before the shield vanishes, the replacement Pokémon will gain the benefits.

Barrier (PS) -- Using significant energy, the user creates a large, thin, translucent square wall of energy 18" in front of it. It is large enough to protect them from attacks and will not exceed the height and width of the user. It is capable of withstanding a major amount of damage from all attacks. The wall will stay with the user until it is destroyed, but can be moved out of the user's way temporarily in order to attack. If the user is switched out before the shield vanishes, the replacement Pokémon will gain the benefits.

Joltik and other small Pokemon would like to formally request that the part in bold be changed to "a short distance in front of it". Static 18 inches in combination with the panes not exceeding the height and width of the user makes for the single most pathetic defense imaginable for small Pokemon, to the point where most refs don't actually even ref it this way in the first place.
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:46 PM   #124
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I don't mind Kush doing it so much since he was an LO in the past but I have this rule for a reason. Please follow it.
fk im sorry kush used to ask for people to write out revisions
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Shuckle's awesomeness level continues to rise.
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Old 01-19-2016, 04:11 PM   #125
Mercutio
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Join Date: May 2009
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RE Toxic Spikes and Spikes

[21:03:15] Connor Swanston: we need to ramp energy usage on them up
[21:03:19] Connor Swanston: they are too good for current usage
[21:03:30] Connor Swanston: that or make them contact only rather than fucking gassy
[21:03:47] Mercutio: when I suggested that to Jeri
[21:04:00] Mercutio: he basically said that he didn't want Spikes and Toxic Spikes to be clones of each other
[21:04:08] Connor Swanston: but they're not clones
[21:04:11] Mercutio: with the result that Spikes is basically worthless and Toxic Spikes is insane
[21:04:15] Connor Swanston: haaaa
[21:04:20] Connor Swanston: yeah that is my take on them currently
[21:04:34] Connor Swanston: Spikes only serves to give Pokémon with shit offtype and weird movepools access to a Good level Ground attack
[21:04:38] Connor Swanston: While T Spikes is just duuuumb


Admittedly someone recently used Spikes in the GM which is truly baffling to me but.

Quote:
Toxic Spikes (PO) - The user expends solid energy to shoot an orb of poison energy which splits into small spikes that leak poison gas, covering the ground in a thin, invisible layer of poison energy. Any enemy Pokémon which touches the ground for the rest of the battle will become poisoned. The only way to remove the layer of energy is to use a traditional Spikes-clearing move like Rapid Spin, though wind-based attacks may disperse it for a short time.

Spikes (GD) -- The user spins around, expending good energy and spreading small spikes all over the arena, localized wherever the user wants. Spikes can be aimed as a direct attack to deal good damage, as well, although accuracy suffers like any projectile attack. Should any Pokémon step on these during the match, they will deliver moderate damage to the victim and possibly make movement painful for a number of rounds.
... really? Like I know that Paul's version of Toxic Spikes looked like this but can we maybe make these attacks a bit more sensible? Spikes does not have any method of getting rid of it listed which makes Toxic Spikes's reference meaningless (even if we all know what it means). We have animé evidence of Spikes being useful from Barry's Skarmory so can we just make them do what they do ingame as an alternative to the current, which is from like 1999? And can we make them Normal while we're at it? Toxic Spikes should either be easier to clear or cost more than solid energy lol - I would suggest both. Actual Spikes is currently pretty pointless so why does it cost Good energy?
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