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Old 02-25-2016, 06:30 PM   #301
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All arenas will eventually become fundamentally equivalent to the Lawn Arena. I can see it now.

The biggest difference between indoor and outdoor arenas, hell, the only difference really, is weather. I don't like indoor weather because its obliterating any difference between the two kinds of arenas, which has been a disturbing trend as of lately in ASB to make arenas pretty much all the same to one another in most regards, and I don't like that. The environment needs to play a role in this game, whether people want it to or not. I don't even like the compromise, because its not one. It's "we still get indoor weather anyways" that's not a compromise. You need to not like it either. :p

It doesn't matter if there is anime evidence either. We don't have anime evidence for half the stuff we've done (Snarl, Grudge, Roost etc etc) and we have anime evidence for stuff that probably should change that we're ignoring (getting rid of Switch = KO for instance). Anime evidence is not a "Get a Free Change" card. This is ultimately a change that I feel sets us on a bad precedent on arena interaction with moves (meaning, there won't be any be in the future) and that's not a good thing.
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:43 PM   #302
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Good thing it was called a proposition, and not an imposition lol
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:58 PM   #303
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Yeah, adding on to the arenas thing, think that now that we've got a lot of stuff codified, we're mixing up "standardization" with "assimilation" lol
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:00 AM   #304
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100% agree with Emi. Anime evidence should be thrown out the window if implementing what the anime has is in any way detrimental to ASB. And in this case, I'd definitely call making the already minimal differences between arenas detrimental. If you make it so there's no difference between how attacks work in arenas, we'll be well on our way to Game Style Battling where you can have your Excadrill use Dig in the middle of the damn ocean.
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:22 AM   #305
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In less elaborate wording, fuck indoor weather and everything it stands for.
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:46 AM   #306
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that is what sigs are for
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:50 AM   #307
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Would like to just mention that we have no attack descriptions for Dragon Ascent, Precipice Blades and Origin Pulse afaik. Now, I do understand these moves won't be used for a very long time but this is me being pedantic.

If we do, I feel bad.
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:24 PM   #308
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Careful.

Unless you have extremely, and I mean really really, good justification, you should always seek to emulate the most recent animé. Even if you don't like it. In this particular case it's probably fine because we're literally talking about weather and although the arena argument is slightly over-egged (you didn't join the ASB because you were excited about varied geography) it is valid. It's good to have a reason for there to be different arenas and one of the most obvious is arena dependent moves.

But in general terms the animé should be what we emulate, and in that vein you only want to contradict the games if the animé does something more interesting and more balanced. Animé evidence should be evidence in and of itself which is enough to justify a change (or an addition) unless your counter-proposal is really very good. People arguing against animé surf were always hilarious for this reason because there were about two of them with a half decent counter argument (which while valid was not as strong as the reasons for implementing it) and a bunch of people being conservative for the sake of it.

If hypothetically this season of the animé gives us a number of additional examples of weather being used inside, Solar Beam being used inside, etc., there will be no real justification for resisting it. As it is it's a one off thing so we're ok.
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Old 02-26-2016, 06:31 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroicRein View Post
Would like to just mention that we have no attack descriptions for Dragon Ascent, Precipice Blades and Origin Pulse afaik. Now, I do understand these moves won't be used for a very long time but this is me being pedantic.

If we do, I feel bad.
They exist but I think that may not have made it outside of the LO forums.
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Old 02-27-2016, 07:48 PM   #310
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Roar Of Time (DR) -- The user lets out a time-rending bellow, which causes a distortion of time and space around the target, dealing massive damage. However, modifying time results in the user being frozen in time for one round itself.

This is Roar of Time. Skype has displayed that "frozen in time" is really nonspecific and either really broken strong or makes this move useless. Could we get more specific wording for what it does?
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:38 AM   #311
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Dark Void (DK) -- The user (always Darkrai) forms balls of pure darkness, throwing one at each foe. The balls grow to envelope their targets, wrapping them in a cloak of darkness, coaxing them to sleep. This move uses considerable energy.

Can this make it to the site now?
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:04 PM   #312
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Didn't we go around removing the (always X) line from basically every MD?
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:05 PM   #313
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We did but then we went and added it to the new legend moves so I dunno.

Quote:
Skype has displayed that "frozen in time" is really nonspecific and either really broken strong or makes this move useless.
Very certain Crys was joking on the "makes it immune to everything" crap but yeah this move is really, really bad.
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:06 PM   #314
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If we added them to the legend moves then why is Smeargle being prevented from sketching things learned via sig again?
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:08 PM   #315
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They've never been followed ever and there are other issues with it.
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:09 PM   #316
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I'd ask what, but I should probably stop clogging a Move Description thread with SC related discussion...
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Old 03-10-2016, 02:47 AM   #317
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The current full description or rule (if applicable), highlighting any problem areas
Facade (XX) -- The user performs a physical rage-induced attack that is boosted if the user is or recently was affected with a status affliction, including attraction and other related mental statuses. If the user has not been affected within the last few rounds, it will deal good damage, but can deal considerable damage if it has been affected.

The issues with the move (in bullet points or short paragraphs)
-What kind of attack is it? a tackle? a punch? a kick? a beam?

The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the moves yourself)
This just kind of needs some clarification, i know this move doesn't get used much but it should be reffable when it does come up. Just "attack" is vague and could cause problems if inconsistent across multiple refs.
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Old 03-10-2016, 11:15 AM   #318
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If we're looking into Facade can we please give it some energy efficiency while boosted? Sort of akin to a reverse of how Hex works.
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Old 03-10-2016, 03:59 PM   #319
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While biggs has raised a total non issue (good god use your imagination) Zelphon is right.
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Old 03-10-2016, 04:11 PM   #320
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Speaking of Hex and Venoshock (because I'm too lazy to do the whole spheal when its been side numerous times what the issue is), we can do the thing where Hex, Venoshock, and Facade all deal good / significant damage with a solid - significant energy scaling. The fact that Hex / Venoshock is solid energy for significant damage is fairly silly since its really easy to set up a permanent status like Toxic or Burn and completely render other offensive options useless. It's easier to just standardize the lot of them this way since they all work on similar principles.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:08 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
Speaking of Hex and Venoshock (because I'm too lazy to do the whole spheal when its been side numerous times what the issue is), we can do the thing where Hex, Venoshock, and Facade all deal good / significant damage with a solid - significant energy scaling. The fact that Hex / Venoshock is solid energy for significant damage is fairly silly since its really easy to set up a permanent status like Toxic or Burn and completely render other offensive options useless. It's easier to just standardize the lot of them this way since they all work on similar principles.
I'd say yes to this for all but Facade, because Facade's hardly in the same boat. Hex and Venoshock, you can set up and abuse to your heart's content, whereas Facade requires you to have a status condition first, and therefore is basically wholly reliant on the opponent inflicting one on you.
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Old 03-10-2016, 09:55 PM   #322
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I've been meaning to deal with all these moves. I'll do so soon!
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:48 AM   #323
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The current full description or rule (if applicable), highlighting any problem areas

Sludge Bomb (PO) -- The user fires a few large round 'bubbles' of sludge at the target. The bubble itself becomes hard in mid-flight, then explodes on contact like a tiny bomb. The sludge inside is very reactive, which is cause for the explosion. They can be fired either in a tight cluster or spread out to hit multiple targets. Each bomb deals moderate damage, and if most or all hit, it deals significant damage. The sludge is highly toxic, and has a 30% chance of poisoning the foe.

The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the moves yourself)
It being physical within ASB, it makes poison moves lose diversity for special moves. Not all types are created equal.

The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the moves yourself)
I understand that this move has been physical before my time, and I'm not trying to stir the pot here. That being said, Projectile moves have a tendency to be special in nature, and this attack was probably written before Gunk Shot was introduced to the game. With Gunk Shot taking on the role of a physical poison projectile, I think Sludge Bomb should take on a more energy based quality to match its true nature. If anything, keep the ability for them to turn solid restricted to poison types.

There is anime evidence for just that: Shuckle is shooting a watery, non viscous version of it. Three! Poison! Types!, are shooting a condensed, what ASB would consider, solid, version of Sludge Bomb.
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Old 03-12-2016, 08:57 AM   #324
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Okay let's clear out this backlog.

>Dual Types

So this issue has been brought up a few times now and I haven't done anything because I don't really like the fact that these moves force Pokémon to double dip. It's a pretty huge nerf to the move if they have to drain two pools at once for what really just amounts to an altered type chart. I mean, occasionally that can be beneficial, but for the most part you're not really going to gain much benefit in using them over a pure-typed move that targets one weakness over another. I do agree that in their current state they're a little too spammable but the other option makes them much less useful to the point where there are often better options. I do want to change them but I think we need to find a reasonable compromise.

>Pound

Yeah this should have been changed a long time ago. It's a shame that Pound kinda sucks though.

Pound (XX) -- The user thumps the opponent with an appendage, causing moderate damage.

>Dazzling Gleam

See this is a case where clarification just makes the move more awkward. I'll do it here but there is a reason that we don't hand hold on every description and one person not understanding the basics of a move is not a very good reason for us to lengthen and complicate move descriptions.

Dazzling Gleam (FA) - The user releases a bright burst of magical energy, the energy dealing considerable damage to the foe and possibly lowering their accuracy for a short time, similar to Flash.

>Camo

Actually this probably could use a bit of a rewrite now that GameFreak has started giving it out like candy again.

Camouflage (NO) -- Using solid energy, the user consumes some energy to blend in with their background, except for certain parts or markings which can't change (e.g. Staryu's jewel and Kecleon's stripe). The part that cannot change will generally be a marking that might otherwise blend in with the environment it may naturally be found in, or it may be something that is not naturally part of the Pokémon's body (e.g. Flabébé's flower or Sewaddle's dressings). Most Pokémon can hold Camouflage more or less indefinitely, but it does require a bit of concentration to maintain. The attack works quicker and with less energy for Kecleon, as Camouflage is a natural attack.

Eh this is really an SC matter ultimately but I think this will work for now.

>Weather Ball

Weather Ball (Various) -- The user collects the current weather in a ball of energy and sends it at the victim, dealing good damage. If the weather is calm and relatively neutral, it is simply a blob of Normal energy, but in other weather conditions, it changes type and becomes stronger, dealing significant damage for solid energy. In harsh sun, it heats up significantly, becoming Fire-typed, with a small blaze of fire. In rain, it becomes a mass of water, becoming Water-typed. In hail and snow, it loses its heat, becoming a chilled mass, becoming Ice-typed. In a sandstorm, it takes up a significant amount of sand, becoming Rock-typed.

Wordy but better.

>Status-related moves

Hex (GH) -- The user creates a hazy form of purple energy above them, which quickly forms into an intimidating eye, frightening the opponent somewhat before launching waves of purple energy which deal decent damage. This attack is fueled by the user's sense of schadenfreude, and will deal significant damage for good energy if the foe is afflicted by a status effect. Repeated uses of this move while boosted will cause it to increase in energy use slightly, capping at significant energy.

Venoshock (PO) -- The user sends a burst of reactive toxins at the foe, dealing good damage. If the target is poisoned, the attack does significant damage for good energy. Repeated uses of this move while boosted will cause it to increase in energy use slightly, capping at significant energy.

There, a little less spammable.

Facade (XX) -- The user performs a physical rage-induced attack that is boosted if the user is or recently was affected with a status affliction, including attraction and other related mental statuses. If the user has not been affected within the past round, it will deal good damage. If the Pokémon has suffered from a status in the past round, it will deal major damage for significant energy, though subsequent uses will deal only significant damage for significant energy. Each time the Pokémon is affected with a new status, it will deal major damage before reverting back to significant. Once the status is cleared, it will deal good damage again.

Is this too good? I want to distinguish it from all the other beat-up style attacks and make it useful but I feel like this potentially devalues status. Please suggest different scaling.

>Solar Beam

This is dumb but fixable.

Solar Beam (GR) -- The user absorbs sunlight, then fires a beam of Grass energy at the target that deals heavy damage. The power of the beam varies in relation to the length of time the attack is charged for. Grass types charge quicker than non-Grass types. The user has to be in natural light from outside to be able to charge the attack. If Sunny Day is in effect, the attack has an almost rapid fire nature. If Rain Dance is in effect, the charging time is increased. Solar Beam can be used in low-light environments or at night, but the charge time will be significantly increased. When used by a Grass Pokémon, this attack uses considerable energy, while non-Grass types use significant energy to convert the sunlight to a beam of energy.

Honestly, Night!Solar Beam isn't totally ludicrous but I am not going to let the anime totally get away with it.

>Sandstorm

Sorta on the fence on this one.

Sandstorm (XX) -- The user begins to spin or move in such a way that it kicks up massive quantities of sand and dirt and powerful winds, usually using moderate energy but increasing in cost if the user maintains its movement. Pokémon which are not Ground, Rock, or Steel type will take light damage per round from the sand and loose stones being blown around in the wind. Rock-typed Pokémon also gain some extra benefit, as the sand will often coat their hides or skin and grant them a slight boost to their special defense as long as the sand is in the air. The winds are stronger and stone damage is greater the closer one is to the center, where the Pokémon using the Sandstorm is located, and lighter Pokémon may find it hard to maintain their footing. Many Pokémon will have their vision and hearing impaired, making it difficult to locate opponents, and Pokémon may find it harder to stay aloft if flying or levitating. The user must continue to spin/kick to maintain this attack, but if the user stops, the winds will continue for 2 rounds. The size and severity of Sandstorm can vary, based on the user's size and energy, smaller Pokémon obviously not as capable of generating the same power of storm as a larger Pokémon. Sunny Day cannot be used to cancel Sandstorm, but Rain Dance and Hail do, their effects pulling down a lot of the sand. Sandstorm will increase the charge time of Solarbeam and cut the effectiveness of light based moves much like Rain Dance. Certain Pokémon, such as Larvitar or Hippopotas, are capable of generating a Sandstorm using sand in their bodies; these Pokémon can use Sandstorm regardless of the arena and their Sandstorms will last for 5 rounds without the need to be maintained, though they may still be cancelled by use of Hail or Rain Dance as with other weather moves.

It's a meh justification but w/e.

>Indoor weather

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>Roar of Time

Roar Of Time (DR) -- The user lets out a time-rending bellow, which causes a distortion of time and space around the target, dealing massive damage. However, modifying time results in the time around the user being slowed for a round, reducing their speed and reaction time somewhat.

I blame Muyo for this one.

>Sludge Bomb

I don't really understand what you're getting at here. It's a Special move just like Water moves not named Water Pulse are. Do you want something Poison that can break Reflect?

Last edited by Jerichi; 03-12-2016 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 03-12-2016, 09:08 AM   #325
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I want Sludge Bomb to be special, fully so. I want the move to function more similar to the anime, as an anime/game loyalist with degrees of flexibility. Solid option for poison as not all get Gunk Shot, but special for everyone else.

I'm all for the other changes! Rocks get the boost needed under sandstorm, so much love and praise there. Dazzling gleam is a great fix, now it is written with enough precision that people can interrupt the drop based on looking at the light, and not by magic. I mean, I agree it is common sense, but at some point we have to realize "is it really with how many times people ask on a yearly basis?"

>Camo
It should end with damage stipulation, a la ghost invisibility.
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