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Old 06-01-2016, 12:25 PM   #51
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I agree we don't need anymore Gen I fanservice. But Kanto desperately needs some sort of overhaul as its easily the most disappointing region in a lot of aspects.
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:37 PM   #52
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I agree we don't need anymore Gen I fanservice. But Kanto desperately needs some sort of overhaul as its easily the most disappointing region in a lot of aspects.
idk Johto exists.
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:22 PM   #53
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Kanto has no life, it has very little story, its aesthetically drab even in FRLG, all of which are definitely _not_ Johto's case.
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:55 PM   #54
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Johto was boring and aesthetically drab even in HGSS (Pokeathlon aside), and also had very little story. It was literally Kanto but not Kanto.
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:07 PM   #55
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Except it had a bit more cultural influence. Heck, even it's generic forest had significance to region's culture, and while it's obsession with towers might be a bit odd to some, at least the ancient ones all had their own role to play in shaping the region's history. Compared to Kanto, Johto is a treasure trove of personality.

It is a bit lacking in the story department, even by Pokemon standards, however.
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:26 PM   #56
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That's hardly a treasure trove but I take your point. Johto was slightly more clearly Oriental than Kanto to the average layman. But even then it was boring, shallow and dull as all shit. Easily forgettable, 3/10.
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:50 PM   #57
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:06 PM   #58
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Remakes of Gen IV are presumably about 18 months away from being released at this point.
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:08 PM   #59
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I don't hate everything, it's just that my imagination is more than a video game can compare to.
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:56 PM   #60
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Personally, with the recent re-release of RBY on virtual console I don't think that making a remake is top priority. However, I would love is that instead of a remake, a sequel akin to B2W2 might be a good idea. Remaking RBY would bring nothing really new as everyone who knows Pokemon knows the first gen. Everyone knows the starters, we know how to clear puzzles, everyone knows that Giovanni is the final gym leader, we know your rival is the final fight. All of this is old hat. There needs to be something new.

Though one to note is that in BW they only had new Pokemon in the national dex to sort of serve as a fresh start. In XY, they gave out the gen 1 starters and gave them a huge power boost in the form of Megas. I think Gamefreak is sort of pushing away from a remake by compensating for them in the newer games. I'd appreciate it if they did make another Kanto game, but I don't really see it happening.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:14 PM   #61
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As someone who loved the original games we do not need a remake as Talon said. An overhaul is required. FRLG added the seveii islands which imo was a great side quest. I think more of these quests should be added into the story. maybe add in a battle frontier arc throughout aswell such as what the show did.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:54 PM   #62
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I really wluld not like to see Kanto again as it stands now.

Currently, Kanto is just 90% incredibly bland seas, rocky terrain and grassland, with like zero variation.

Like Talon and EK said, I want Kanto to just get a rehaul.
Make yhe landscape more diverse and more aesthetically pleasing than "this route has a lot of fences".
Improve the basically non-existant plot too, because right now Team Rocket just has absolutely no connection between what they do other than moneh, and ultimately culminates in an anti-climax by making the last showoff feature nobody except Giovanni.



I'd still not want to see it before Sinnoh though ._.
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:38 PM   #63
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I would also like to see Kanto get a complete overhaul in a future game. I'd also like to point out that there isn't a Kanto focused have available for the DS as of right now and that hinders it's accessibility to many people given that they have to purchase another console on which to play a Kanto game.

Of course I'd love a Sinnoh remake too, I don't think it's quite for new Unova games though.
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:48 PM   #64
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I pretty much disagree with most of the posts from Talon onward here. Contrary to you all, I find everything after Kanto to be bland and generic.

I'm not impressed by civilizations/cultures modeled after real-world civilizations/cultures. To me, that is lazy writing. It's really obvious in fantasy works now where something like Warcraft is based off Tokein, and Warcraft's weaknesses as a derivative are obvious and glaring. But I never had the sense of excitement of exploration in Unova that I did in RBY, and it isn't just because RBY seems like a timeless place that never existed in human history.

It's tough to explain, but there is something I like to term "the 1960's aesthetic". You could also call it "Astroboy Syndrome", but anime/manga from the 1960's shared a look and shared themes, in the same way the space operas of the 1970's shared a look and themes.

The big example of this is Megaman. Megaman is supposed to be set in a futuristic 2010, and by 2016 standards it is indeed futuristic, but only in a retro sense. Megaman looks/feels, and has the attitudes of, the 1960's. That's because it was originally intended to be an Astroboy game until Capcom lost the rights to Astroboy.

RB, and to a far lesser extent Yellow, capture this aesthetic really well. R/B were black and white on the Gameboy, which made one think of the height of the Showa Era in postwar Japan where televisions were all black and white. Kanto is a world without cars where you could bicycle everywhere, without heavy industrialization, very evocative of the 1950's suburbs in the US (barring the car stuff). It was safe and not totally ridiculous for a 10 year old to go wandering off into the wilderness. There wasn't a capitalist economy to speak of, so you didn't see wage slavery. Scientists weren't members of pharmaceutical companies trying to screw people over, they were dedicated to the spirit of science without monetary motivations.

It's not exactly a utopia, but it's a completely alien world to the one we live in. That was the appeal to me. As later stories have become closer mirrors to the real world, but Nintendo-ized for the game, I've become less and less immersed by the worlds. I mean who cares. Just try and hit on the cute girls and hope you get lucky - the Pokemon battles and power gaming are secondary.

FRLG's updated looks for that similar reason didn't really give me the same sense of replaying RBY, since it took away from that retro feel RBY gave. In fact I wish they didn't happen, and so don't want a Kanto remake. Let the original forever be golden. I have little hope a "retro" Kanto is even possible.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:07 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Make the landscape more diverse and more aesthetically pleasing than "this route has a lot of fences".
Improve the basically non-existent plot too, because right now Team Rocket just has absolutely no connection between what they do other than moneh, and ultimately culminates in an anti-climax by making the last showoff feature nobody except Giovanni.
If you talk to anyone whose first Pokémon game was from Gen 1 and who played it without spoilers, I think you'll find that they describe the final showdown as anything but "anti-climactic." It's one of the highlights of the entire game, and it delivers on a huge emotional level. Judging from your post, you joined the franchise with Gen 4. And if that's the case, then I have to imagine you were spoiled on "TEH SPOILOR" long before you ever played the original games. But for those of us who went in blind, in a magical time before Google and Internet speeds faster than 56 kbps, that plot twist was right on up there with Star Wars Episode V's, man.

I mean, just think about it. The first city you arrive in that's not your own, it's Viridian City. You're tantalized with a gym you cannot enter. And that tantalization gets all the more torturous as you take down gym after gym after gym, and you realize that Viridian Gym ... is being saved for last. They tell you the gym leader's not at home. You wonder what he's like. You can't wait to meet him, to see what kind of team he has. And all the while this league circuit is happening, your mind goes elsewhere. You're focused on Team Rocket, on taking down this criminal organization led by a cold, sinister man named Giovanni. He's smart. He's powerful. He's ruthless. You manage to defeat him, but he always gets away. The last time was at Silph Co., but who knows when he'll next show up ...

You return to Viridian City, you go up to the gym ... it's unlocked! :o You go inside. You fight a number of Ground-type trainers who each tell you about their fearsome leader. You make your way through this winding maze ... and then suddenly ... what the fuck? WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!? Could it be ...!? Is it really ...!? HIM!? And you're gushing and squirming and omg excited as you absorb every letter of text out of his text boxes. And the fight begins. And it's like no fight you've had with him before.

... And then you beat him as easily as you did every other time. ^^; But what do you expect, that's the game's fault, not the story's. The story isn't guilty for any sort of anti-climax, it's the easy-peasy game design that is. The story is what's so celebrated about RBY. Bare bones and meager though it is, it's the story that people keep coming back to with love in their hearts.

You need no further proof than Pokémon: the Origin. One, fans responded to news of Origins with statements like, "I've always wanted them to do an RBY anime" and "This is gonna be good. " Two, the writers knew that they had only two short hours to work with. And they devoted an entire quarter of that to Giovanni. First half of the episode is Silph Co. HQ, second half of the episode is Viridian Gym. The greatest moment in the special? Not the Mewtwo fight. Not the Champion fight. But Red's challenge of Giovanni's gym. The dialogue ...!

I never did write up my posts for Episodes 03 and 04, but maybe I should do that. I actually just re-watched this special about a week ago. Is that something anyone reading this post would be interested in reading?

I feel bad for those of you who joined us late and were spoiled on the Giovanni plot twist. I wish you could have had what we have.

I'll give you this: the plot could use a lot more material. I think Origins has shown us that there is enough material in RBY to work with to create a satisfying 40-episode anime, but Origins also pads a lot of the game's content with fanon-esque extensions of the in-game dialogue. Giovanni and Red don't hold every word of conversation in RBY that they do in Origins, yet everything they say in Origins suits RBY well. In the same way that Origins expanded conversations and plot events, I'd like to see Kanto remakes do the same thing.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:19 PM   #66
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When I played RBY I assumed the Viridian Gym was the easiest gym since it appeared in the first town. It was quite a surprise the toughest Gym Leader actually lurked there.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:02 PM   #67
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I agree that if we're going make Kamto again, please not another RBY. Let's do Extreme Makeover: Region Edition. Let's make a new plot that will actually satisfy. I wasn't spoiled on THE SPOILER because I didn't look things up, but I also didn't pay much attention beyond "is Blastoise/Charizard kicking all the ass because they're the only strong Pokemon I have" back in that day because I was like 9 years old and my starter being my only viable mon was the trap I'd constantly fall into. I pretty much ignored that plot point. I ignored basically all the plot of FRLG (where I first played Kanto) because none of it captured and held my ADHD mind, whereas Pearl did so really well, especially with Team Galactic and the climax of that segment of the game. If we're going back to Kanto, the kids will need that. They won't like what RBY was because that won't be interesting to them. So start with an actual plot, then make things look nice. Maybe change up the flow of the game a little. What if you went to Saffron before Vermillion? What if you could face the gyms in any order, and you would face different teams for each badge based on how many badges you had? I mention that because that's a bit of a world building point in many documented Nuzlockes, and some canon confirmation would be radical.

My other thing is if you're going to hang on to HMs as moves, please for the love of god make them actually useful in combat. Like, we see Surf used in comp, at least in Singles. Fly is at least a decent Story move, but flops in comp for being a two-turn. Every other HM is bad, given how people who make rom hacks consistently buff them. For example, Fire Red Advanced, one I'm Nuzlocking, boosts Cut's BP to 70 and makes it Steel Typed. Flash becomes an actual Electric attack (and is Surge's Gym TM...well HM but still), and strength gets its generic Rock retyping. Please, if you're going to force HMs on us, please make them not be piss.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:33 PM   #68
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Let's make a new plot that will actually satisfy.
No, that's not what I want. D: I don't want a new plot -- I want an enhanced plot. An enriched plot. You keep everything core to the original story the same. Meeting the Rockets at Mt. Moon, running into a Rocket in Cerulean, the fact that we even have a Team Rocket, their takeover of the Silph Co. building, so on and so forth. Keep all that the same. Just ... enhance the story. Add to it. Make it richer. Fuller. Deeper. Flesh out the characters. Give us a better sense of their hopes and fears, their flaws and their strengths.

Don't do a rewrite. NO ONE LIKES A REWRITE.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:52 PM   #69
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Problem with enhanced plot is, given the relatively bare-bones, frame tale style of the original game, you've already filled in the blanks for what you think is the enriched story and so are probably setting yourself up for disappointment.

For example, I've been following the plot of the DOOM game released this year, and initially -

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It looked like the protagonist was the same from the original Doom, locked in a coffin in Hell for untold years to the point he'd lost his memory because the demons were tired/fearful/sick of him, and was fished out of Hell by a new civilization of humans recolonizing Mars and not knowing humans were making the same mistake they made once before.

Basically, similar to what happened in Aliens


But the actual backstory turned out almost fanfiction-y. Which was a major disappointment. The idea in my head was better than what id came up with.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:05 AM   #70
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Eh, you say that, but Origins pretty much matched or exceeded my expectations. I'd have done the Mewtwo fight a little differently (including their depiction of Mewtwo himself), but that's like ... a disappointment out of so many opportunities. For the most part they knocked it out of the park. Battle vs. Brock was better, Brock's personality was better, explanation for why gym leaders use the weak-sauce teams they use was as good as I'd imagined and was even later incorporated, to grand dramatic effect, with the Giovanni gym battle ... everything was done well.

I get what you mean though. It happens to us all the time when we're watching an anime and we begin to predict where the story will go. Sometimes where it ends up going is inferior to what you'd imagined.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:28 AM   #71
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>Talon
Actually I joined the franchise in Gen III proper, but first game was Silver.

I say anti-climax because it features no Rocket Grunts whatsoever, only Giovanni.
Yes, it works great as an ending for Giovanni, but it doesn't do anything for Team Rocket, which was eventually what necessitated the entirety of Gen II, as it just felt entirely unresolved.

And that is judt the problem. The story of Gen I, for what little it is, just feels like a conglerated mess that does not at all work without Gen II trying to unscrew at least a few leftover things.
And even then, it is so barebones that I feel absolutely nothing. Like no character has personality and I feel nothing for the characters and the plot involved because it is just totally uninteresting.

And yeah I got spoiled on the spoiler. I can't think of anyone who hasn't really, almost everyone in my high school knows about it and yet 99% has never played Pokémon. At this point its basically become the same as "darth vader is lukes dad" except the game counterpart of it.


>Myles
Whoa Myles thats... Okay, Gen I that's true. Surf is the only worthwhile HM Move. Strength is kinda decent though. Later ones did include Waterfall, Rock Climb, and Defog though.

>Dopple
idk what you feel with Kanto, but it just does not cut it for me. Every single Route fits under one of like four archetypes and practically every one of them looks extremely similar.
It just felt way too mellow and bland, and it just bored me. By contrast, Hoenn was somewhat more interesting for having a few more interesting Routes (111, 116, 121) but even then, I guess its just graphical limitations.



But no what really bugs me most about Kanto is the lack of any good music
Like all other Regions have at least one good settlement theme that just earworms itself, while Kanto is just... I think I remember the Saffron City theme? I don't even like it though.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:48 AM   #72
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>Kanto doesn't have memorable music

>Pallet Town
>Lavender Town
>Route 1
>others

okay
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:55 AM   #73
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I still listen to remixed versions of the gen 1 tracks soooo
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:01 AM   #74
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But no what really bugs me most about Kanto is the lack of any good music
What.
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:11 AM   #75
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>Kanto doesn't have memorable music

>Pallet Town
>Lavender Town
>Route 1
>others

okay
... I literally don't remember Pallet Town.

Lavender and Route 1, sure, you remember them.
I just don't like them.
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