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Old 03-23-2007, 11:05 PM   #1
Doppleganger
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Fate/stay night

Fate/stay night, the second major work by Nasu and Takeuchi of TYPE-MOON (the first being the classic/legendary eroge, Tsukihime) chronicles a two week battle royale between historical and mythological figures reborn (Servants) and their modern-day mage partners (Masters) in Fuyuki City, a moderately sized metropolis near Tokyo circa February 2004.

The main character is Emiya Shirou, a high school aged mechanic and amateur mage. Shirou is the survivor of a massive fire that razed most of the city 10 years prior, and was raised by a mysterious man named Emiya Kiritsugu. Kiritsugu, a mage himself, gave Shirou fundamental instruction in magecraft but eventually stopped seeing that Shirou had little to no talent. Kiritsugu was a sick man and eventually died, but Shirou continued his training and is now proficient in a single talent of "reinforcement", where he magically enhances the strength of objects. This also allows him to be a great mechanic, because he can see how things are put together.

Shirou is drawn into the conflict when, after staying late one day at school, he's caught in a battle between a the Servant Lancer and Servant Archer, the latter serving Shirou's classmate and secret crush Tohsaka Rin. Lancer doesn't want the clandestine nature of the battles to be revealed to the general public, so he hunts down and kills Shirou. Shirou miraculously revives, and is again hunted by Lancer, but as he's about to be killed again he's rescued by a young girl in armour. She introduces herself as the Servant Saber, and proclaims Shirou to be her Master.

Realta Nua.

...

Two words: Rho Aias.
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Last edited by Doppleganger; 07-26-2010 at 08:10 PM. Reason: edited.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:06 PM   #2
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So, I hear there's a movie going to be made! Looks like HECK FROZE OVER after-all and we're getting Unlimited Blade Works!!!
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:38 PM   #3
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Wow a movie? Thats cool I just hope its not super condensed!
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:23 PM   #4
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Well, it's been almost a year since Doppel's last post. Any news on that movie, Doppel?

I have started to play the visual novel of Fate / Stay Night for the very first time. I am enjoying it greatly. Much like Doppel wrote in another thread, I too feel like the game is 10x better than the anime was but that at the same time it doesn't feel perfect.

(safe to click once Shirou has met Saber and Saber has met Archer)

Spoiler: show
For instance, I'm really frustrated by Tohsaka's squandering of two of her three Command Crests so early in the game -- the war hasn't even officially begun yet! -- and I'm also frustrated by Lancer's classic comicbook villain approach to killing Shirou, i.e. talking up a storm before dealing the final deathblow whereby he provides Shirou the chance the boy needs to survive (be it by jumping out of windows or by inadvertently summoning Saber). But the complaints feel puny compared with my negative memories of the anime's second half, and I am anxious to see how the game's multiple plot lines will compare.

I really love how the game does a great job of explaining the importance of a Servant's identity by way of revealing Lancer's bit by bit. Even already knowing who he was, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time he fought with first Archer and then Saber, and I all but fell off the edge when he spoke the words "Gae ...................... Bolg!" and his spear, as if by magic, connected with Saber's heart -- almost! -- instead of her feet to which the speartip had been originally pointed.

Shirou also feels a lot less dense -- though still remarkably dense!! -- in the game than in the anime. While he's sort of clueless about Sakura's feelings towards him, the video game Shirou makes it known via internal monologue that he's aware Sakura's becoming an attractive young lady and he's developing feelings for her. The anime Shirou seemed to be completely asexual with regards to any woman outside of Saber, and this was sort of painful to watch considering Sakura's and Rin's behavior towards him.

Last edited by Talon87; 06-05-2013 at 08:11 PM. Reason: placed majority of post body inside spoiler tag so as to not spoil newbies ^^;
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Hmm, I don't remember having that problem, but I do recommend getting the voice patch. BBB didn't use it, but I plan on getting it and maybe replaying Fate. The reason is, in UBW at least, the voices add another dimension to the experience that one wouldn't get from reading the text alone. It's tough to tell when characters are sarcastic or serious in FSN given the nature of the material, but some vocal cues are helpful for leading the reader at the right interpretation.
Doppel, I looked into getting it and I am now more confused than ever.

First, it looks like Realta Nua is a remake of the entire game, and not a voice-over patch for the original game.

Second, it says that Realta Nua is an "all-ages" version of the game; and, while I do think FSN would be a stronger story without the eroge scenes, I also feel like I'd rather enjoy the original experience than play an edited version.

But most important of all, third, it's a PS2 game. Just how on earth did you expect me to play this? PS2 emulation? I think I'll pass. Voices would be fun to have, but they're not worth this much hassle.

Oh, did I mention that downloading a whole-new game means I'd have to start all over again? No thanks.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:57 PM   #6
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Man, it's getting pretty good. I'm taking a micro break to read up (just for fun) on Cú Chulainn. Right now, Tohsaka has been explaining to Shirou (and to me ) the concepts of Noble Phantasm, Servant Rank, and so on. For example, she explained that even though it's commonly accepted that the best Servant class is Saber, any of the seven classes could potentially be that particular War's best class depending on the rank of the Servant spirit summoned into it, e.g. summoning Hercules into the Berserker class is pretty damn god-awesome.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:42 PM   #7
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Reached my first brick wall choice-wise. Do I go up on the roof to talk to Rin about important matters? Or do I go check on Sakura because I want to pursue her route? Even if I can't unlock Heaven's Feel yet, I still feel bad picking Rin over Sakura. Why does the game torture me so, though? 'Cause while I might not care about Rin, I do care about her information!
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
First, it looks like Realta Nua is a remake of the entire game, and not a voice-over patch for the original game.

Second, it says that Realta Nua is an "all-ages" version of the game; and, while I do think FSN would be a stronger story without the eroge scenes, I also feel like I'd rather enjoy the original experience than play an edited version.

But most important of all, third, it's a PS2 game. Just how on earth did you expect me to play this? PS2 emulation? I think I'll pass. Voices would be fun to have, but they're not worth this much hassle.

Oh, did I mention that downloading a whole-new game means I'd have to start all over again? No thanks.
It is my understanding that what Mirror Moon did was hacked the PS2 game, and created a voice patch for the PC game. I'm not 100% sure on this, but it seems to be the logical conclusion because there shouldn't have to be a voice patch needed for Realta Nua (which came fully voiced) so I find it strange one would need a patch to enable them if it's really PS2 emulation. It's also said the patch "inserts new CGs" which would support my hypothesis, since RN came with extra CGs on top of the censorship scenes to make it PG.

From the comments I'm surveying, it looks like there's a version of Realta Nua that can be mounted with Daemon Tools, but I haven't had any experience with it.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:16 AM   #9
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The game is still on the upswing and shows no signs of decelerating any time soon. I am also excited, perhaps, because the game has for the first time diverged strongly from my memory of the anime and, as such, I feel like I've entered into uncharted waters.

The first and smaller of the two major divergences is how Shirou meets Rider. I don't remember Shirou ever being invited to Shinji's house for a chat about teaming up. That was sort of unexpected. But the second and larger of the two divergences is Saber disobeying Shirou's orders and running off to the Ryudou Temple where she becomes engaged in battle with Assassin. I totally thought that we never even saw Assassin until the second half of the anime (i.e. long after Archer's fight with Berserker at Ilya's castle, the memorable halfway point of the anime). And yet here he is, fighting Saber, his identity fully revealed and all.

When I first saw the FSN anime, I had no idea who Sasaki Kojirou was and as such the revelation of his identity was very underwhelming to me. While it's not too much more impressive now, it is somewhat more impressive to me now that I know who Sasaki Kojirou is, both because of research into the oft-cited tsubame gaeshi and because of a gift I got from a Japanese grandma here in town: a famous three-book set depicting the life of Miyamoto Musashi, Kojirou's famous rival. (Or rather, Kojirou is Musashi's famous rival: as Musashi is the more famous and longer-lived of the two samurai!)
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:05 PM   #10
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OH YEAH.

I just got to the part where Archer is about to fight Berserker whilst Tohsaka, Shirou, and Saber attempt to escape the Forest Einzbern and make their way back home.

Obviously, I've been looking forward to this -- the best memory I have of the anime -- but I had forgotten just how badass, just how epic Archer's acceptance of Tohsaka's command was.

I shall quote it here for posterity.

Spoiler: show
"... Archer, can you hear me?"
Tohsaka murmurs in a quiet voice without turning around.
"A little while is enough. Keep him busy by yourself."

She orders her servant to die.

"........."
Archer does not answer.

"Ridiculous...! Are you insane, Rin? Archer is no match for Berserker by himself...!"
"We'll run while you do that. Archer, buy us time until we escape."
Ignoring Saber, Tohsaka continues her instructions. Her voice is cold, killing her emotions.

"..........."
Archer, who has been silent as if pondering something, quietly nods and ...
"That is a smart move. I will be able to escape if you escape first. Independent action is a specialty of Archers after all."
... takes a step forward as if to protect Tohsaka.

Berserker does not move. Only Ilya's laughter can be heard from above.
"Wow, I'm surprised. You're saying such an unknown Servant is going to stop my Hercules? Wow, you have a cute side to you, Rin."

"........"
Neither Tohsaka nor Archer has the composure for a rebuttal. Tohsaka and Archer know that fact better than anyone. Archer steps forward. He is empty-handed as usual.

"........"
Tohsaka is watching Archer's back. ........ She must not have anything to say to him. Tohsaka should know her command is unreasonable. Because she told her Servant to die so that we can escape.

"... Archer, I--" Tohsaka starts to say something. But ...
"By the way, Rin. May I confirm one thing?"
... Archer interrupts her words in a cool voice unsuited to the situation.

"... Fine. What?"
Tohsaka looks at Archer with a downcast look.

Still looking at Berserker ...
"Yeah. Buying you some time is fine, but -----

You won't mind if I beat that thing, right?"

... Archer says something unexpected.

"Archer ...
... yeah, you don't need to hold back. Give him a beating, Archer!"

"I see. Then I shall meet your expectations."


Badass.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:31 AM   #11
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Aw man. Two complaints:

First of all, there wasn't any Interlude this time for Archer's fight against Berserker? That's bullshit. >_< We got one when Saber fought against Assassin and Shirou wasn't there, so why couldn't we have had one this time between Archer and Berserker? Whatever. I guess I'll have to settle for the anime's (epic!) interpretation of this fight from the Fate path, and I'll have to settle for the video game's alternate ending once I pursue it in the Unlimited Blade Works path.

Second of all, I got to the famous sex scene where Shirou replenishes Saber's magical energy, and ... WTF!? >_< This was terrible! If you looked up the word "awkward" in the dictionary, there would surely be as an example THIS SCENE! It was just completely inappropriate -- and I don't mean that in a moral or pious sense! LOL, me? Being morally opposed to hentai? Please. No! I mean it in the storytelling sense! This scene was inappropriate from a storytelling perspective! It completely interrupted the flow of the plot, ruined the mood, wasn't erotic anyway, and was therefore a big waste of everyone's time. Also, imo, it really fucked up Tohsaka's character. She's, like, some crazy bisexual nymphomaniac now. When the fuck did this happen!?

I made it to the beginning of Saber's fight against Berserker, saved shortly after telling Shirou to fire off an arrow or two at the Olympian, and shut down the computer for the night. About to pick it back up right now.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:45 PM   #12
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Rin's not bisexual, but she is competent. She understands Shirou was going to have major hesitations banging Saber so tried to do something to get him in the mood. Killing her feelings for an objective is something she shares in common with Archer, and plays into the other two routes as well. She likes Shirou a lot and would love a romantic knight scenario where he comes to her rescue riding a Pegasus, but she's clear headed enough to not wait around for that scenario to happen.

And you're not alone at hating that scene. HF is really the only route that has non-awkward H scenes (not saying anything yet...) but that one was bad, not just because of the placement and awkwardness but Nasu's infamous writing. Supposedly, though, occult magicians apparently did have magical power in their semen so it's not TOTALLY unjustified, but nevertheless.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:19 PM   #13
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I assumed the Archer/Berserker fight didn't have an interlude because it would've taken some of the bite out of the UBW path. I won't say anymore in fear of spoiling.

Also, after playing several visual novels and getting a bad end due to skipping the H scenes, I came to a conclusion. Semen solves everything~
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:02 PM   #14
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Having relived the fight between Archer and Berserker so many times on my computer and iPhone, and having not relived the moments from the second half of Fate, I had forgotten why I disliked the anime's second half so much until just now upon completing the fight against Berserker. That was the cheapest, most deus ex machina defeat ever. I remembered Caliburn's involvement in his death and was hoping for something awesome, but instead all I get is:
  1. Despite Excalibur being the more famous sword by name, Caliburn is blessed with the ability to lop off Berserker's arms whereas Excalibur can't. And this makes sense how? WHY? I'm pretty sure that Logic dictates, "If a stronger Noble Phantasm can't do it, then a weaker one certainly can't." Blah blah Caliburn is Saber's preferred sword blah blah blah, it's just a bunch of bull.
  2. One use of Caliburn on Berserker's person is said to "have killed him 5 times in a row." WTF, that doesn't even begun to make sense. When Archer killed Berserker six times, it was because he delivered six different fatal blows to six different parts of the body using six different projected Noble Phantasms inside of his Reality Marble. That makes sense. When Saber slashed at Berserker only once and dealt a fatal blow to his chest, it was said that she killed him five times at once. That doesn't make sense. -______-; No, no! Don't explain it! Pleeeeeeeease don't explain it! -_-; I don't want to hear the bullshit defense that Type-Moon and/or the fans have come up with for this. Please, just ... leave me alone, and let me hate this scene for what it is: poor writing.
  3. Ilya commands Berserker to dodge Saber's attack but, according to Shirou, he couldn't. Caliburn was faster. Well guess what? Ilya still had her Command Crest. And (unbeknownst to Shirou & Co. but knownst to us!) Ilya is born from the Holy Grail itself, a being of pure magic. There is absolutely no reason for us to believe that she would not have ordered Berserker to dodge this attack and, had she been ordering him to do the impossible as so many Masters before her have done of their servants, that she too would have used up a Command Spell (whether she wished to or not!) and that, by the magic of the Holy Grail itself, Berserker would have been able to perform a miracle and dodge Saber's blow.

    I mean, for God's sake, man! Saber can teleport to school 10 minutes' walk away and catch Shirou falling from the third story of a building but Berserker can't teleport two feet to the left to dodge an incoming sword? COME ON!

What a disappointing fight. The only part of it which was remotely satisfying was Rin's failure to leave a mark on Berserker, only for her to then say "SURPRISE!" and unleash four more jewel-spells all at once, only for BERSERKER to then say "Surprise back, bitch. " when we see that his head, blown off by Rin, has regenerated in no time at all.

And I'm supposed to believe that he couldn't dodge Caliburn and that one slice from it killed him five times over? Puhlease.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Despite Excalibur being the more famous sword by name, Caliburn is blessed with the ability to lop off Berserker's arms whereas Excalibur can't. And this makes sense how? WHY? I'm pretty sure that Logic dictates, "If a stronger Noble Phantasm can't do it, then a weaker one certainly can't." Blah blah Caliburn is Saber's preferred sword blah blah blah, it's just a bunch of bull.
This is what bothered me most when I saw that scene, but it seems to be because Excalibur is actually a weaker Noble Phantasm in its base form (Invisible Air - C Rank) than Caliburn (A Rank). Excalibur's A++ ability is the nuke, and Ilya admitted if Saber used that, Berserker would have lost all of his live at once.

Berserker can't be harmed by anything less than a B Rank Noble Phantasm, which is why Saber did no damage battling him.

Quote:
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No, no! Don't explain it!
I'm going to anyway, lol. I'm not defending that the scene is poorly written, because I raged fairly hard at it too. But there's *some* semblance of logic to it, albeit errant (these are largely my own ideas):

Berserker's ability is apparently based on the Dungeons & Dragons spell "Stoneskin". Stoneskin creates a magical layer of "stone" around the user that absorbs a single damage-inflicting attack. After that, the layer is discarded. The number of layers is determined by the level of the mage casting it, but certain weapons can bypass the protection entirely and hurt the mage protected by them.

Berserker's lives are conceptually similar, except the next life (skin) only triggers after he receives a mortal wound. On top of that, Berserker gains immunity to an attack used against him once, and the lives regenerate after a time.

This is why Archer was fairly deadly against Berserker, and the damage to Berserker so varied and extensive. It's also why Ilya gave Berserker more lives than he had the night before.

Excalibur killing Berserker makes sense because he'd be completely obliterated, and there's no way he could regenerate if there was no body left. But why Caliburn's single stab could be so deadly, I'm still at a loss. Especially when one learns the limitations of Shirou's ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Ilya commands Berserker to dodge Saber's attack but, according to Shirou, he couldn't. Caliburn was faster. Well guess what? Ilya still had her Command Crest. And (unbeknownst to Shirou & Co. but knownst to us!) Ilya is born from the Holy Grail itself, a being of pure magic. There is absolutely no reason for us to believe that she would not have ordered Berserker to dodge this attack and, had she been ordering him to do the impossible as so many Masters before her have done of their servants, that she too would have used up a Command Spell (whether she wished to or not!) and that, by the magic of the Holy Grail itself, Berserker would have been able to perform a miracle and dodge Saber's blow.
Can't talk about this yet. :X

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And I'm supposed to believe that he couldn't dodge Caliburn and that one slice from it killed him five times over? Puhlease.
It was awful and cheesy.
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:40 PM   #16
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God, I love Ilya. :3 (In a non-lolikon way, of course! ) She is just so adorable. I totally sympathize with Shirou, and laugh heartily and approvingly at all the comics which joke that Ilya is the girl best able to steal Shirou away from the competition. (See picture.)



(click here for lazily-translated version)

If the game was a sexless harem game that allowed you the full gamut of characters to pick from, I think I'd totally pick Ilya on the first run-through, not to mention probably half the runthroughs I played. She's just too gosh durn adorable. Especially -- through creepily! -- when she gets into those icily-cold death modes of hers. "If you don't summon one soon, you'll die, Onii-chan." Adorable, in its own Angel of Death way. lol
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:29 PM   #17
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Awwwwwwwwww. At 21 hours 38 minutes, I got my first ever Dead End. It happened when Caster attacked the Emiya residence with her golems, and I had two choices.

1. Send Saber after Caster, while I protect Rin and Ilya
2. Go with Saber

Between two choices like these, normally I'd pick #2; but I felt like picking #1 just to see what would happen, and this was the result. Aw man. And I was hoping to beat the game with zero Dead End encounters, too.

==============================

Anyway, something else I wanted to say. Earlier, I wanted to point out a plot hole in the franchise, but it looks like I was wrong after all, so let me tell you about the perceived hole plus the Type-Moon answer I just saw mere moments ago in-game:

Assassin's identity in the 5th Holy Grail War is Sasaki Kojirou. The game makes it pretty clear that Kojirou is not the same entity as the Sasaki Kojirou who really lived. Rather, he is the legendary spirit known as Sasaki Kojirou, the legend whom men, women, and children today think of and speak of when they say his name. As such, Assassin is capable of performing superhuman -- or even superphysical -- feats, like when he uses his tsubame gaeshi to generate two (and what he says should have been three!) simultaneous slashes.

Well, running off of this law of FSN physics, I began to wonder, "Hey wait a second: how come Saber's a girl, then? " After all, even if the argument is that King Arthur's true identity in life was a girl named Arturia, that shouldn't have mattered. We know King Arthur today as King Arthur. Everyone thinks of him as a man. Every story in the written record speaks of him as a man. And so his heroic spirit ought to have been male, not female! This inconsistency irked me, and I was going to post about it ...

... until I got to the scene where Shirou asks Saber about her wish, and he discovers the truth behind Saber's inability to turn back into a spirit. (As a reminder moreso to myself in the future reading this than to anyone else, I write the following!) It turns out that Saber was like a living example of Lancer's Gae Bolg: the cause and effect of her contract with the Holy Grail Wars is inverted. Most heroes find themselves summoned into the war against their wishes but are promised as a reward the Holy Grail. In Saber's case, she made a wish on her deathbed: "grant me the Grail [in life] and I shall become a heroic spirit [i.e. a slave in spirit form for all eternity to the protection of humankind]." Since the Grail took her up on her offer, the way her entry into the Grail war works like this:

(a) she's still alive, but about to die
(b) she goes into the 4th Grail War
(c) she loses
(d) she returns to the battlefield in England
(e) she goes into the 5th Grail War

Basically, Saber is still alive -- and the Saber who Shirou sees before him isn't the heroic spirit King Arthur, but rather is the about-to-be-heroic-spirit as she really existed. In her own words, Arturia almost dead: that is who Shirou and the others are seeing before them. This is why she can't turn into a ghost, and this is also why she's a girl and not a guy.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:02 PM   #18
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Between two choices like these, normally I'd pick #2; but I felt like picking #1 just to see what would happen, and this was the result. Aw man. And I was hoping to beat the game with zero Dead End encounters, too.
Actually, Tiger Stamps are a good thing. The meta universe of the Tiger Dojo actually adds some insight into what's going on in the novel which isn't apparent even when all three routes have been played. It's also great for building up experience with Taiga (who's only a minor character otherwise) and Ilya herself. Also that bizarre SD Rin who appears from time to time.

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Basically, Saber is still alive -- and the Saber who Shirou sees before him isn't the heroic spirit King Arthur, but rather is the about-to-be-heroic-spirit as she really existed. In her own words, Arturia almost dead: that is who Shirou and the others are seeing before them. This is why she can't turn into a ghost, and this is also why she's a girl and not a guy.
Two small corrections. What Saber contracted was not to become a Heroic Spirit, but a "counter guardian". There's three types of beings enshrined in the "Throne of Heroes" as you'll find out in UBW, had Saber died normally she would have gone on to be a regular Heroic Spirit. Counter Guardians are a bit different, and the third category will also be discussed.

Second, although I hate to chip away at your (very correct) conclusion, it's entirely possible even if Saber were a Heroic Spirit, she still might not be male. Servants gain a "legend bonus" that enhances their abilities in the era they're summoned and the region they're summoned. Cu Chulainn, for example, is close to how powerful he was in life as a Servant. This is because he's virtually unknown in Japan, and Irish mythology isn't as well known as Norse or Greek mythology. However, if the Holy Grail War took place in Ireland, he'd be much more powerful. But, while these "legend bonuses" can enhance a Servant's parameters (Strength, Agility), or the Noble Phantasms they're believed to possess, they can't directly contradict historical fact.

Let's say Jesus Christ had Rank A in Divinity. Even if Jesus was summoned as a Servant in an Islamic nation, where the majority of people believe he was merely a holy prophet and not a God incarnate, he wouldn't suddenly lose that divine attribute.

Another way of framing it is that Servants can be considered a "role" and Heroic Spirits the "actors/actresses" who play that role. Even if an audience expects a certain type of person playing that role, the actual person can be very different from the expectation. Although within the context of the "play", the actors/actresses abilities will scale to what is expected of the role. For most of the cases in the Grail War, the actresses/actors are sometimes portraying a caricature of themselves.
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:53 AM   #19
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One thing I vaguely remember from the original series, one thing I absolutely despised, is happily missing from the video game's version of events. That is in the anime, Shirou had the potential to become the greatest wizard the world had ever known but he gave that up by transferring his Magic Circuit (or something like it) into Saber in order to keep her alive; but in the original video game story, he does no such auto-castration and is repeatedly hinted at being an under-the-radar sorcerer (due to his remarkable regenerative abilities, his ability to project Noble Phantasms, etc). It really pisses me off when somebody has C-level talent but A-level potential only to say, "Well, it's not like I'm going to miss it since I've never even had or known it, so I guess I'll go ahead and part with my chance for A-level talent after all by selling it to you." it happened with Toya in Cardcaptor Sakura, too, and it really pissed me off then, as well. I'm so, so glad to see it missing from FSN the video game, i.e. the most canonical of the canon sources.

On a different note, man, Caster sure does get hosed in Fate. Gilgamesh (still unidentified) just shows up and it's Game Over for Medea.

I made it through Shirou's late night chat with Kotomine about Saber and the rogue Servant from the last war, and saved there and shut down for the night.

Btw, I don't have any Tiger Stamps. Should I have? Are they supposed to spawn in response to dead ends being reached?
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:53 AM   #20
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That was censorship, the anime had Shirou transfer a whole mana circuit (which makes no sense, mana circuits = blood vessels, even Servants have them) into Saber because they couldn't say semen had mana in it.

Tiger Stamps are collected once you get a Bad End, although I think you can only see which you've collected when you finish the route. Collecting them all unlocks some omake content at the end of the game.
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:01 PM   #21
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Okay, Fate path just continues to piss me off. Eager to wrap it up so I can get to the GOOD paths.

I just got through Shirou's fight with Gilgamesh (whose identity is now revealed). I got to see Gilgamesh reveal his personality, then reveal his identity, then reveal "Gate of Babylon," then pull Ea from it, and finally perform Enuma Elish. All of that was okay (although Gilgamesh is hardly tolerable, being the only character in the game more chauvinistic than Shirou) ...

... but then I got to the bit where Shirou tries to block Gilgamesh with Caliburn, and Gilgamesh cuts Shirou (and I paraquote!) "from the left shoulder down to the waist," effectively cutting him in two, with the use of Gram, the sword whose legend predates Caliburn's and upon which Caliburn's is likely based. And what happens? Shirou himself says, "If I stand right now, my guts will spill out onto the ground and I'll die instantly." And then what happens? I'm given a choice: Stand or Don't Stand. I know where this is going and, groaning, I pick Stand. And then what happens? Shirou survives. For the fourth goddamn time (fifth if you count Vs. Rider at school!), Shirou survives wounds that should have ended him right there.

1. Lancer blows away Shirou's heart. He's about to die but Tohsaka arrives and repairs his heart with her 10 years' worth of stored-up magic in her pendant.

1˝. Lancer returns to finish the job and almost succeeds but Saber appears.

2. Shirou jumps in front of Saber to block a blow from Berserker. He is cut in half. Everyone assumes he will die. But he doesn't.

3. Shirou blocks Rider's lacerative assaults with his arms. She mercilessly slices apart his arms and torso. As he falls to his death from the 3rd story at school, he is miraculously caught by Saber and even more miraculously manages to heal off his wounds.

3˝. Shirou manages to survive the fight against Berserker. That alone is WTF-worthy, but technically Berserker never lands many blows on Shirou in this fight, so meh. (See 1˝ for another example of a technically non-death but still as-good-as-death scene.)

4. Shirou is stabbed by Caster's knife. Tohsaka later says that Shirou's spinal cord was severed. She begins to think that Shirou has the regenerative capabilities of a vampire. Shirou thinks to himself that he wouldn't put it past Tohsaka to experimentally decapitate Shirou in an effort to kill him.

5. Shirou is blown away by Gilgamesh. He cannot move. He literally cannot move. Every bone in his body is broken. He is in immense pain. Even with the magic of regeneration, he can only barely move his right fingers, and then right arm, as the fight wears on between Saber and Gilgamesh. Then, he activates his Magic Circuit and decides to use magic to propel his body into battle against Gilgamesh. At which point, he is cleaved into two, right down the middle (well, from the left shoulder to the waist -- so while his head is spared, his heart should still be toast, as should his stomach, spleen, and bowels. ).

It's getting old. REALLY fucking old. It takes away all suspense when Shirou has "the body that refuses to die." It also really cheapens Archer's death (since, when you think about it, he should have all the inherit qualities of regeneration which Shirou has, and he should have a connection to his Master which allows for the siphoning of magic energy to be channeled into healing).

I mean, I just don't care anymore at this point about Shirou almost dying. Type-Moon has truly taken away any and all suspense from these moments for me. If they were to show me in the next scene that Shirou was sliced into four different meat chunks, I would not expect him to die from it at this point. I would yawn and say, "He'll heal." And he would. Because it's getting to be this dumb and this predictable.

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Old 07-29-2010, 02:57 PM   #22
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If you hate Gilgamesh now...

Also I can't comment on your rant, because there is an explanation for it, in Fate at least. ^^;
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:01 PM   #23
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I don't necessarily hate Gilgamesh -- yet? ^^; You've got me nervous, Doppel! -- but I just hate how he's chauvinistic to the point of being Caveman Bubba. You know the type: "you me wife, BAM BAM," a swing of the club, a KO'd cavewoman, and subsequently a knocked up cavewoman. I mean, hell, in his conversation with Saber he even went so far as to delight in the fact that she told him "No" and said he'd have pleasure raping her into submission. I mean, that is some serious Caveman Bubba talk.

Shirou gets 2nd place. He's a classic example of a young man who is chivalric to the point of becoming chauvinistic. Instead of admiring Saber's fighting skills, he keeps raging over the fact that she's a slender-bodied girl and would be better suited to leading a girly life instead of being the king. I mean, that's chauvinism. That is textbook chauvinism. "Girls can't be leaders." I know he thinks he's being all superhero chivalric, but he's not. He doesn't realize it but he's not. And that's what's irksome to me about him.

=================================

Anyway, right now I'm at the part where:
* Shirou went to the church to talk about Gilgamesh for the second time
* no Kotomine
* "Go downstairs?" Y/N --> I picked Y. Obviously IRL I'd not have picked it when the game told me I was thinking "If I go down there, I know I will die", but this is FSN , the game where you're always supposed to pick the most suicidal option, it seems.
* Shirou discovers what happened to all those other kids from 10 years ago.
Hand-in-hand with that, naturally, he also discovers what's been keeping Gilgamesh alive all these years.
* Lance to the chest! That's the sixth time Shirou's been given a mortal wound. Or is it? 'Cause yet again -- *GROAN* -- we have an injury that just barely missed his heart.
* Shirou claims his eyes were open but he could not see. That he could not feel his limbs. Given what he just saw, this made me think "holy fucking shit, Kotomine amputated his limbs and gouged out his eyes ". You would think that by now I would be used to Type-Moon's gross exaggeration of the protagonist's injuries, but ... alas, no. I am still not used to it. Because I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Meaning ...
* ... that when I then see Shirou is fine, and pretty much only in pain because of a lance to the chest, I decide to take a break from playing.

Gyad the second half of this story is frustrating! Now I remember why I hated it so much! It's so illogical and un-epic! All the cool epic shit takes place in the first half! Sigh, sigh, siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh!
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:27 PM   #24
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I don't necessarily hate Gilgamesh -- yet? ^^; You've got me nervous, Doppel! -- but I just hate how he's chauvinistic to the point of being Caveman Bubba. You know the type: "you me wife, BAM BAM," a swing of the club, a KO'd cavewoman, and subsequently a knocked up cavewoman. I mean, hell, in his conversation with Saber he even went so far as to delight in the fact that she told him "No" and said he'd have pleasure raping her into submission. I mean, that is some serious Caveman Bubba talk.

Shirou gets 2nd place. He's a classic example of a young man who is chivalric to the point of becoming chauvinistic. Instead of admiring Saber's fighting skills, he keeps raging over the fact that she's a slender-bodied girl and would be better suited to leading a girly life instead of being the king. I mean, that's chauvinism. That is textbook chauvinism. "Girls can't be leaders." I know he thinks he's being all superhero chivalric, but he's not. He doesn't realize it but he's not. And that's what's irksome to me about him.
Man, I can't wait until you meet Rance.

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* Lance to the chest! That's the sixth time Shirou's been given a mortal wound. Or is it? 'Cause yet again -- *GROAN* -- we have an injury that just barely missed his heart.
It's mortal again. Wounds from Gae Bolg's stabs are supposed to never stop bleeding or heal.
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:54 PM   #25
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I still hate Gilgamesh for what he did in UBW.

As for the whole surviving a blow that should've killed you thing, Type-Moon overuses the hell out of it. By the time I played Tsukihime, I was kinda tired of it.

I also still think there should've been an Illiya path. I mean, as far as interests go, the other three are kinda dull. Illiya's also kinda like a child Arcueid.
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