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Old 03-18-2015, 08:34 PM   #126
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I qualified by time spent. He's been here really a quite relatively short amount of time.

Fuck if he's an LO or one of the better refs. I wasn't saying shit there. I specifically mentioned time. I also said half-newbie. Because, like I said, he's been here really not long at all. Hence the comment about him fasttracking like mad.

But, as I also said, he's just the shining example, nowhere near the only. There are others I will not name that hit the moderate TLs way quicker than they should have, to the point where a lot of folks have been calling for a TL req shakeup explicitly because of them. Leveling up from lower levels is very very quick nowadays
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:23 PM   #127
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First comment on the new level acquisitions; in Skype discussions the other day the pretty unanimous agreement (including Jeri iirc) was that Mime is better than Garde, but the latter is now TL5 and the former TL4. Not fully convinced Garde and Gallade warrant 5.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:27 PM   #128
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Not really looking to change the decision made, I would just like to hear the reasoning behind it: Why didn't Gigalith move down to TL3? It has a nice size, but a horrid typing in terms of defense, limited movepool, and lackluster movement that do not inspire a TL4 tag in my eyes. Great job, and thank you for the overhaul. Cheers to the LOs involved.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:35 PM   #129
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A mention that Aegislash, while not great, may want a bump to TL4 instead of TL3 due to a highly abusable SC, especially with sigs. Will likely be testing this soon, though, so opinion may change.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:40 PM   #130
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Second comment on the new level acquisitions; other than my one contention above this looks solid, good job guys.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:41 PM   #131
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A mention that Aegislash, while not great, may want a bump to TL4 instead of TL3 due to a highly abusable SC, especially with sigs. Will likely be testing this soon, though, so opinion may change.
Yeah but any Pokemon is breakable with sigs, so that's a bit moot. It's certainly a bit easier with Aegislash but he fits in TL3 pretty snugly with the rest.

Looks good guys! Wouldn't mind if you dropped Garde to TL4! :P
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:48 PM   #132
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I've still got a decent mind to categorize Slowbroking in TL5. They're defensively poor but their movepool is absurd. While they lack the bulk of Aggron, Rhyperior, Tyranitar, or the Nidos, they fit that glass cannon grouping.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:49 PM   #133
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Suggestion: since many people, newer TL1s and 2s like myself included, got our free TL1 Mega Stones when the old level system was in effect, maybe a free Mega Stone exchange event might be in order during the 3 week grace period?
I also feel this should take place it would allow people of any TL to adapt to the change easier.

Either way the changes are good in the long run despite the short term of adapting to it
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Old 03-22-2015, 05:41 PM   #134
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Gigalith might stand to move down to TL3? It's not amazing compared to other rock types of similar levels(Rhydon, Golem)
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Old 03-22-2015, 06:09 PM   #135
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Going to say that Mime outclasses Gardevoir, and so she should be TL4. I thought of it the moment I read the announcement, having experience with the pair. Even without using them, a look at their movepool helps, with Mime having Psywave and Zap Cannon and stuff.

Good work, LOs! c:
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Old 03-23-2015, 10:49 AM   #136
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For the most part I'm diggin these. TL3 Jellicent is great, thanks for that. <3

Some thoughts:

Lapras is great and needed to move up but I don't agree that it is TL6 great. Monstrous movepool, great bulk, and pretty darn good match-up potential against most things. But it is water-locked, which hampers its usage just a bit. It's also pretty strange seeing both Absol and Clefable at TL5 when I'd argue Lapras isn't any better than either (and maybe even somewhat worse?). Generally I look at TL6 acquisitions as the most versatile 'mon before anything else, and while Lapras is a beast I don't think she's as versatile as the others at her current level. I mean that's Metagross / Dnite / Snorlax right now, yeah? Just don't think she fits in.

Agreeing with the sentiments that Gardevoir/Gallade are too high and should be back at TL4. Gardevoir in particular just seems like the quintessential TL4 pick to me. Haven't used one since her new type addition, however, so I could be out of touch.

Disagreeing with Stealthy's suggestion to bump the Slows up to TL5. For Slowbro especially the reaction time / slowness SC keeps it check, it'll probably be dishing out as much damage as it takes in the long run. Don't have as much as an argument for Slowking except that it seems awkward to bump the one and not the other? As much as this may be shooting myself in the foot, if you bump them you might as well bump up Starmie and Staryu as well.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:28 PM   #137
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I agree Gardevoir should be TL4. I feel like it fits better into a "top TL4 acquisition" than it does in TL5, since at the moment it kinda sticks out to me at least. Gallade though I think can fit into TL5.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:56 AM   #138
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Just registered that Clefable only made it to 5; I'd argue it'd be more suited to 6 (and Lapras more suited to 5). Clefable can do basically everything and has pseudo-flight, plus Fairy is a pretty great defensive type. Short version of the small things I disagree with: Mime 4->5, Gardellade 5->4, Lapras 6->5, Clefable 5->6. As always take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.

The sortable table on the site makes this all so much easier to look at, I love it.
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:57 AM   #139
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On a similar note... Chansey should really be TL3 with its pudgy pink playmates. It's move ocean is just way too wide to still be sitting at TL2. Blissey sitting at TL4 is probably fine, though, since it really doesn't get too much upon evolution.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:35 PM   #140
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Something is amiss here,

Druddigon should probably move up to TL4 since we consider Goodra TL5 material.

A superficial copy/paste comparison:

Relevant moves that Goodra gets over Druddigon:
Power Whip, Bubble, Muddy Water, Water Pulse, Sludge Wave, Bide, Ice Beam/Blizzard, Thunderbolt/Thunder, Focus Punch, and Infestation.

Cons: Misses out on dark moves, misses out on any direct form to gain momentum beyond turret.

Relevant moves that Druddigon gets over Goodra:
Rock Climb, Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Scary Face, Hone Claws, Snatch, Crush Claw, Glare, Flash Cannon, Heatwave, Gunk Shot, Surf, Smack Down, Power Up Punch, Snarl, Taunt, Roar, Slash, Stealth Rock, Fling.

Cons: It misses out on grass and ice off-type.

Druddigon does have a detrimental SC in terms of ice moves, and it naturally should. Most of the time, a good trainer will play its strengths and Druddigon has a lot moves to brush off the competition.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:37 PM   #141
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Pretty sure Druddy was kept at TL3 so that some of the lower level trainers could have access to a Dragon that wasn't pants.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:46 PM   #142
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Vibrava is an excellent TL3 pokemon with the potential of being a TL2 uplevel. Druddigon is a respectable TL3 uplevel. Tyrantrum is a fully evolved TL3 dragon that if played right, it can dent teams as normal resist is nothing to shrug off. I get that options are limited at TL1-TL2, but those stages are hardly lived nowadays since reffing happens often enough and the rules are a bit clearer for newer trainers to grasp.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:49 PM   #143
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Vibrava is actually not too excellent. It suffers from its diminutive size.

Druddigon is a high-end TL3 and offering more variety is not a bad thing.
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Old 03-27-2015, 09:23 PM   #144
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I'm sorry, but while Drud may be good it really doesn't belong on the same ground as... pretty much any TL4 'mon. It's a great TL3 'mon, sure, but it's not so stellar that it should be moved up any further as is.
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:34 PM   #145
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Druddigon is admittedly a fantastic TL3 choice, but it is not quite at the level of TL4. I will concede it probably straddles the border and were we to extend the existing system towards including TL7, it would absolutely be a TL4, but as it stands it is very much so more comfortable being one of the higher end TL3 acquisitions.
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:46 PM   #146
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Completely agreed
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Old 03-28-2015, 01:50 PM   #147
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Druddigon is admittedly a fantastic TL3 choice, but it is not quite at the level of TL4. I will concede it probably straddles the border and were we to extend the existing system towards including TL7, it would absolutely be a TL4, but as it stands it is very much so more comfortable being one of the higher end TL3 acquisitions.
If that is the current standard to attribute Druddigon as a higher end TL3, then Gigalith definitely qualifies as an average TL3 since it's direct comparison is Rampardos and those two are night and day in terms of usability. Aside from Tyrantrum, there is no other fully evolved rock typed Pokemon accessible at TL3 that does not require an uplevel that isn't negatively hampered by a 4x weakness.

Naturally speaking, Gigalith has a massive size difference over Sudowoodo which is the only thing it can truly excel over its TL2 brother. The pinning game is a tough act to shrug off unless you have the right set of moves.

Sudowoodo < Gigalith < Rampardos
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Old 03-28-2015, 01:54 PM   #148
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Using Sudowoodo in any sort of comparison of quality makes it extremely hard for me to take you seriously.
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Old 03-28-2015, 01:57 PM   #149
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Using Sudowoodo in any sort of comparison of quality makes it extremely hard for me to take you seriously.
Why? It was a point of comparison in terms of pokemon with a singular rock typing. If the natural order of the TLs is to keep Sudowoodo as TL2, Gigalith can fill in the TL3 spot quite nicely since it gets lost in the sea of TL4 and discourages its pick up.
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:00 PM   #150
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Sudowoodo is superlatively shitty. It's like talking about Wormadamn in a serious discussion about Bug types.
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