UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2015, 01:07 PM   #101
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 6,969
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Yeah I'd agree with all of that. Making it an upgrade of uplevels stops people bringing more than one to any given match as well as stopping people from just having an entire squad of things above their TL.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 01:41 PM   #102
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,988
I actually kind of like this idea. Would say for certain that it would be treated as an extension of uplevels - you wouldn't be able to have 2 uplevels and then 3 upgrades. Any upgrade at all would need to use an uplevel slot. I'll take this to the others and see what we think.
__________________
Connor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:04 PM   #103
Sneaze
I'm sorry, Talon :(
 
Sneaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sigs Hell
Posts: 5,682
Send a message via Skype™ to Sneaze
Pointing out that nowadays 5 SP is piddle so would recommend more of a 10 SP per level thing, though somewhere in the middle may be fine as that can add up fast.

Also pointing out that non-evolvers should be a no-no for this. We don't want more of the same when it comes to Absol et al. The point of this should be to promote diversity in squads to allow the use of 'mon as favorites, not because "THEY'RE ALWAYS GOOD." Which, leading to my next point, these 'mon should 100% be affected by equiall, no suped up versions of the Silver Wing for everyone, at little cost to those TL3 or higher. It would also be a good way to potentially see more of a return of the slowly fading equilevel instead.
__________________
Wild Future - FizzBy
PASBL - Ghost Grass Gym Leader - Dragon Elite Four


Daisy wins at life for making this Battle Cut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Whatever Sneasel says is right
Sneaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:12 PM   #104
Emi
>tfw life and wife goals
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Agartha
Posts: 11,174
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Concept I pretty clearly said that the issue was "why get a normal Pokemon when you can get an Absol and Gyarados instead". DT was concerned with balance (which wasn't totally my issue) and its why I said his suggestions were largely irrelevant.

EDIT: Apologies, just had 4 metric tons of bullshit fall on me today but I feel you read one line.
__________________




Fuck these crabs
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:21 PM   #105
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 6,969
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
I read that I just don't really understand what the point you were trying to make is. Like, yes most people would probably opt to splash out for the upgrade rather than settle for the regular uplevel like most people choose to splash out for mega stones rather than settle for the regular form. And? Help me out here, what am I misunderstanding.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:26 PM   #106
Emi
>tfw life and wife goals
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Agartha
Posts: 11,174
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
You're essentially encouraging the old system again but just with a paywall, which I think is dumb.
__________________




Fuck these crabs
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:31 PM   #107
Connor
Who Knows?
 
Connor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,988
The Pokemon within each TL will be significantly more balanced than in the past. If this system really does lead to everyone and their mothers having Pokemon X, Y and Z, then it is more a sign that the revamp to our existing acquisitions was inadequate than it is an inherent flaw of the actual system. I agree that non-evolving Pokemon should be exempt from being able to be selected - this works thematically better if you consider it an upgrade of your 'uplevel' slot into an 'up-evo' slot. Not to mention, it'll be limited through the actual number of uplevel slot you have available to you. This is very much so still a work in progress and there is no guarantee it will be implemented.
__________________
Connor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:37 PM   #108
Emi
>tfw life and wife goals
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Agartha
Posts: 11,174
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Quote:
If this system really does lead to everyone and their mothers having Pokemon X, Y and Z, then it is more a sign that the revamp to our existing acquisitions was inadequate than it is an inherent flaw of the actual system.
Our system right now is not designed for this suggestion. At all. It doesn't matter if the Pokemon are balanced in each trainer level if they are being used two levels below it. This system, as it stands, is not ready for up-levels with a potentially longer reach because it was designed around a system of where up-levels got you a Pokemon one-level above yours. Not two or three.
__________________




Fuck these crabs
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:41 PM   #109
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 6,969
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
You're essentially encouraging the old system again but just with a paywall, which I think is dumb.
A TL2 trainer having one or two TL4 standard mon on his squad was never the problem though, that's absolutely fine (particularly if it works via uplevels so they can only bring one per match). The problem was that everyone had the same TL4 standard mon because they only had access to two or three to choose from. With this they'd still only be able to get one or two TL4 standard mon (which is completely fine) but they'd have 111 to choose from. That completely removes what was the entire problem with the old system which was lack of choice.

Giving TL2 trainers the ability to pick up a couple of level 4 standard mon never caused a problem in and of itself.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?

Last edited by Concept; 03-18-2015 at 03:46 PM.
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:44 PM   #110
Stealthy
A New and Original Person
 
Stealthy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emi View Post
You're essentially encouraging the old system again but just with a paywall, which I think is dumb.
Concept's point is that the reason why Absol and Gyarados and Metang were in all the TL2 squads is because they had no competition in the tier. His issue wasn't that everybody had something of that caliber but more that everybody had the same thing, and that's because those three had no competition or alternative options. Uplevel Feraligatr is much less popular not because you can't get it at TL2, but because you can have uplevel Feralitatr OR uplevel Lucario OR uplevel Alakazam OR uplevel Machamp... you get the point. Because TL1s, 2s, and 3s will have more options, the idea/hope is that they will use a broader variety of those options and Concept is happy with that reality. And he feels this is a reasonable expectation because uplevels aren't centralized now, closest being uplevel Flygon. Because everybody loves Flygon.
Stealthy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:46 PM   #111
Emi
>tfw life and wife goals
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Agartha
Posts: 11,174
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Alright, that's a fair point. I still think there is going to be centralization though. There is with everything obviously but I can still see problems down the road. Although I guess my worries would be lesser if we had a more spread out LAs over more TLS but that's another kettle of fish.
__________________




Fuck these crabs
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 03:51 PM   #112
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 6,969
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy View Post
Metang
I knew there was one I was forgetting.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 04:07 PM   #113
Sneaze
I'm sorry, Talon :(
 
Sneaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sigs Hell
Posts: 5,682
Send a message via Skype™ to Sneaze
TL2 up level Dragonair was objectively worse but yes, let us please avoid going back to the dark days of Metagyarasol.
__________________
Wild Future - FizzBy
PASBL - Ghost Grass Gym Leader - Dragon Elite Four


Daisy wins at life for making this Battle Cut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
Whatever Sneasel says is right
Sneaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 04:35 PM   #114
Slash
Poison Jam
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,020
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
Okay, so, I have to pretty much go on record as hating this idea entirely. Making this pretty much subverts the entire concept of TL Acquisition levels, since it makes them but a suggestion when you can just pay to completely ignore the set standard. It also encourages the "pay-to-win" culture, which y'all know I am avidly against.

But another thing is, this does nothing to discourage obtaining the generics anyway. You're giving people the opportunity to pick up the very generic Pokemon you feel should be encouraged less, and, in doing so, are encouraging them to pick up those genericmon for (specified TL here), non-evolvers aside, and just attaching a pricetag.

I don't see this fixing any problems. I see it causing many. Especially since nowadays, it's a pretty small matter to shoot up TLs. Connor's still half-newbie in time spent here and he's edging ever closer to TL6. Folks shoot up really fast. It doesn't take three years anymore to hit a reasonable level.
__________________
--- ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy View Post
As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneezey12 View Post
KAIRNE I WILL RIP OFF YOUR SCROTUM AND FEED IT TO YOU THROUGH A FUCKING SWIRLY STRAW.
Leader of the "Stop Screwing Over Smeargle" Brigade

ASB
Spoiler: show
Art by Kairne
ASB
[URL="http://forums.upnetwork.net/showthread.php?t=4387"]
Daisy Art:

Spoiler: show


Battlecuts courtesy of DaisyInari

Random stuffs:
Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 04:52 PM   #115
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,534
I half agree and half disagree with this proposal. While I really like the idea of giving people access to their favorites, especially when we're locking away some 'mon until really really late, I have to agree with Slash here when he says that it sort of defeats the purpose of the TL system in the first place.

If we were to do anything like this, you'd get maybe one max.
__________________


気紛れを 許して 今更なんて思わずに急かしてよ
もっと中迄入って あたしの衝動を 突き動かしてよ

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 05:06 PM   #116
captainmisato
Thunder Badge
 
captainmisato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 560
Yeah I personally would love that system but I really can't say whether I'd pick 'mon that I like the most (say, Ampharos or Chesnaught, or even Meganium but lolololol) or the ones that would give me the most advantage at my TL, which I admit to being guilty of with things like my Clefairy when I was at TL1.

It's a good idea, but to really ensure that people go by the spirit of it, you might want to create a "tier list" of sorts for people to pick from. Like, if you want something from the "A Tier" of up-evos, you can only have that one and that's it. If you want things from the "B Tier", you can have two. This combined with it taking up a normal up level slot might be workable.

I mean we already have a rough but somewhat accurate tier list going over in TO. A Tier would be something all the mon in S through solid B rank while B tier would be all the mon from B- through F, excluding non-evolvers obviously. Maybe even have people have to sacrifice their other normal up level slot to get an "A-Tier" up-evo?

Last edited by captainmisato; 03-18-2015 at 05:13 PM.
captainmisato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 05:22 PM   #117
Kuvario
Mysterious Knight
 
Kuvario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,918
Agreeing with Slash, this defeats the whole point of TL's and will ensure people will pick generic things over their favorites like Concept intended. The idea isn't all bad, but it really does feel like "pay-to-win", and I honestly don't like things like that.

I can see more TL2's adding Dragonair, Gallade, Clefable (I think it's TL4), than their favorites. Never mind the fact that going up TL's isn't as slow a process as some would think.

Yeah, so my standpoint is pretty much the same as Slash.
Kuvario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 05:52 PM   #118
Snorby
Snackin'
 
Snorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash View Post
Connor's still half-newbie in time spent here and he's edging ever closer to TL6. Folks shoot up really fast. It doesn't take three years anymore to hit a reasonable level.
While I do absolutely agree with the essence of what you say in your post, you really can't use Connor as a basis for comparison. He is decidedly an exception to the rule that leveling takes time. All kinds of factors have to do with how long it takes; It's hypothetically possible to reach TL6 KO/TP requirements in under two months if you finish two 2v2s a day. Obviously this an extreme that is nigh impossible to actually accomplish, but that's kind of my point. Not everyone can dedicate Connor or Dave-level time to PASBL, in fact the vast majority can't, and even the ones that can often end up getting boned by opponents/refs on TA or being generally slow, or even their matches sitting in OC/Ref queue for weeks on end. This isn't even factoring in that Dave and Cibbir both have fantastic W/Ls that really shouldn't be expected of the average joe. The time it takes to rise though the ranks is incredibly subjective, and thus making important calls based off the rate one of the speediest people to ever set foot in the ASB ascended TLs at seems pretty silly to me.

So yeah, TL;DR version is that the argument of "This is a bad idea because you can just be a Cibbir and get TL6 in like a year if you want your favorites" is quite frankly utter bullshit.
__________________

Click on Fawful for my ASB squad summary. Other links coming soon.
Snorby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 05:54 PM   #119
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,534
> It's a good idea, but to really ensure that people go by the spirit of it, you might want to create a "tier list" of sorts for people to pick from. Like, if you want something from the "A Tier" of up-evos, you can only have that one and that's it. If you want things from the "B Tier", you can have two. This combined with it taking up a normal up level slot might be workable.

I really don't want to formalize the tier lists.
__________________


気紛れを 許して 今更なんて思わずに急かしてよ
もっと中迄入って あたしの衝動を 突き動かしてよ

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 06:02 PM   #120
captainmisato
Thunder Badge
 
captainmisato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 560
I would probably have to agree then that there's going to be abuse and people being opportunistic if there's not some sort of restriction on the 'mon they can get.

This is largely an issue of power levels being so different within each TL though so after level evals might be a better time to discuss this, when people can get the "below-average favorite" at a lower level/earlier time, to see if this is actually still needed.
captainmisato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 06:03 PM   #121
Slash
Poison Jam
 
Slash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo Underground Sewage Facility
Posts: 6,020
Send a message via Yahoo to Slash Send a message via Skype™ to Slash
> So yeah, TL;DR version is that the argument of "This is a bad idea because you can just be a Cibbir and get TL6 in like a year if you want your favorites" is quite frankly utter bullshit.

I was using him as an example. But he's far from the only one. We've had several members being infamous for shooting up the levels far quicker than one really should. Without naming names here. But Cibbir is the shining example of the fast-track, so I named him specifically.

> even suggesting a formalised tier list

It's like y'all want me to snap
__________________
--- ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy View Post
As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneezey12 View Post
KAIRNE I WILL RIP OFF YOUR SCROTUM AND FEED IT TO YOU THROUGH A FUCKING SWIRLY STRAW.
Leader of the "Stop Screwing Over Smeargle" Brigade

ASB
Spoiler: show
Art by Kairne
ASB
[URL="http://forums.upnetwork.net/showthread.php?t=4387"]
Daisy Art:

Spoiler: show


Battlecuts courtesy of DaisyInari

Random stuffs:
Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show
Slash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 06:06 PM   #122
Emi
>tfw life and wife goals
 
Emi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Agartha
Posts: 11,174
Send a message via Skype™ to Emi
Yeah but the difference is Connor is actually good and didn't just ride the newbieslay train like pretty much every other one has. This includes Dave :p

Not to get off topic but those are bad examples as to how quick levels should happen and are the people who generally this is aimed against because they don't typically win by skill but by pure squad advantage.
__________________




Fuck these crabs
Emi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 06:07 PM   #123
captainmisato
Thunder Badge
 
captainmisato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 560
s-sorry? ;-; I was just saying that with no restrictions people will still be apt to choose "the best" rather than their favorites. And Trainer Levels kind of are supposed to be "tier levels" in a way, I thought?

And really the more I think about it the more level evals alone seem like the solution. This would be a rather roundabout way of fixing a problem that would go away on its own if lower powered mon just got bumped to lower levels.
captainmisato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 07:47 PM   #124
Deebs
You sayin' I like dudes?
 
Deebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: KY
Posts: 1,871
Send a message via Skype™ to Deebs
The fact that you insist on referring to Connor as a newb when he's basically our best ref and new LO is laughable. Please pick a better example.

Also I like this idea and would support a "one per person" allocation as Jeri mentioned.
__________________
Deebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2015, 08:12 PM   #125
Snorby
Snackin'
 
Snorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,719
If it's limited to 1 per person, then rules changing what 'mon it is should be relaxed a bit. It'd kinda suck to blow your one slot on, say an Infernape at TL2, and then get to TL3 and have it be basically nothing more than an uplevel, and then by TL4 you're no better off than you were before. Perhaps you can change what 'mon it is every time you level up?
__________________

Click on Fawful for my ASB squad summary. Other links coming soon.
Snorby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.