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Old 01-12-2015, 11:15 PM   #1
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The Milk Bar - Legend of Zelda General

Hey there, and welcome to the Milk Bar! Can I get you a fresh bottle of Lon Lon Milk? It's BYOB, though. While you're at it, stay for a while and chat with the other Hylians: much takes place in these lands, and it is good to spread the wealth of knowledge. Perhaps you'll share a nifty adventure story with us, too!

After some searches and some help from others, I discovered that up until now, despite having many LoZ fans on the boards, we had yet to create a general thread for ourselves! Shame, shame, shame. Anyway, I figured it would be pretty nice to have a place for the fans to commune and be able to discuss in a more open environment. Here you may feel free to discuss the series itself, its characters and settings, individual games and spin-offs within the series, fan-based projects, art, or fics of any kind, speculation for future titles, or even that horribad cartoon that aired in the nineties. Well maybe not that last one. Mysteries abound in this beloved franchise, meaning there is always something to bring to the table, big or small. So sit down, relax, enjoy yourself, and take as many drinks as you like!
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Oh, and I almost forgot. That's 100 rupees a bottle, please. ~<3
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:35 PM   #2
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Lil' Bluey

HI I HEARD ZELDA SHUT UP AND TAKE MY RUPEES

I haven't gushed about this series in a long time, but this seems like a good place to post my old "Majora's Mask is a dream" theory at some point. For now though I'll just leave this comic.

Random aside: Was just thinking again today Itsuki (the guy in my sig) has hair similar to Link's. I miss obsessing over these guys...
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:51 PM   #3
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Please do, fan theories actually get to be pretty interesting. Sometimes crazy or just weird, but mostly interesting. Majora's mask stories/theories especially pique my interest, because it is easily the most mysterious game.

Beautiful, yup that about sums it up right there. I feel the same way; I've been kind of out of the Zelda loop for a bit now, but it's hard to ignore these most recent titles that came out, and I would like to feel that same way about the series again. Hence, this thread. Speaking of which... does anyone know if we've gotten any more news on that last E3 trailer/showing? I keep thinking about it, we didn't really get much of any info from it.
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Old 01-13-2015, 03:39 AM   #4
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I've always assumed Majora's Mask was a dream. I forget where I've gotten that idea, but yeah.

There's another theory mentioning how Majora's Mask represents the five stages of grief. Nintendo likely didn't intend it, but it's still a very nice theory.

I tried to replay Majora's Mask not too long ago, and I enjoyed it, but I ended up rage quitting. The GC version has a bad habit of freezing every now and then, and this one froze when I did the Kafei side quest AND the last dungeon on the same timeline. I was fucking pissed. Otherwise it was a very enjoyable revisit.

Not sure if I'll get the 3DS remake or not. ATLEAST THAT WON'T FREEZE!
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Old 01-13-2015, 05:41 AM   #5
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I've seen the five stages of grief theory, and it makes sense.

I got to Stone Tower Temple, turned it over, then lost my motivation for the game. I'll finish it someday. D:

But my favorite is Ocarina of Time. The soundtrack is better than Majora's Mask, which is already great, with gems like Deku Palace, Stone Tower Temple song. The game is a bit lengthier than Majora's Mask, and just more interesting in general.

Anyway, I'm finally playing my copy of Phantom Hourglass, a nice game. Has nice music, like the theme that plays when you meet Oshus (gives me FFVI vibes), also the one that plays when you meet Linebeck. Unique controls too.

Also playing Minish Cap for like the fifth time. Man, I love the older games.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:41 PM   #6
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Speaking of Majora's Mask 3D, it's been confirmed that there'll be a limited edition New 3DS XL releasing alongside the game. Release date set for February 13.
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:14 PM   #7
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Oh god it's beautiful. Apparently, lots of others agreed. According to this article, the Limited Edition MM XL is already sold out in a lot of places! Yikes!

As for the game itself, I'm probably going to see if I can get it/preorder as soon as possible, if these sales are anything to go by. I wasn't planning on getting the 3DS itself anyway, as I already have the first one that came with ALBW. I'm a very slow, explore-everything-you-see kind of player, so I didn't get very far at all the first time I played this on Wii VC. This should be a nice way to actually get around to seeing it the proper way.

I've also recently started playing Link to the Past on WiiU VC. I can attest to its difficulty. You nearly have to stop and fight every individual monster if you want to survive, even the ones that respawn, but annoying points aside it has certainly been a unique experience for one like me who has mostly played modern Zelda.

PH is nice. I played it, like, 5 times. And I have no idea why. It's not even that great.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:06 PM   #8
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If this is to be believed, Netflix is in talks with Nintendo to make a Legend of Zelda television series. Some commenters note that in reality Netflix has only thus far floated around the idea of hiring a writer to draft a story to present before Nintendo and to then ask for the rights to make a TV series. But who knows? Maybe something will come of this.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:05 AM   #9
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May I also remind you what happened the last time this was attempted.
See: Cartoon from nineties mentioned in opening post.
Well hopefully it can't be this bad, but all the same they need to at least try this time if, for whatever weird reason, this person turns out to be right.

So no buzz on MM3DS yet or what? Haven't got it myself yet.
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:26 AM   #10
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I got one, feeling pretty pleased with it- though picking it up was a bit of an adventure. In line right in front of me was a fellow who didn't have a preorder who was quite desperately trying to convince staff to let him have one. After he was rebuffed and I picked mine up he immediately tried to buy it off of me for about a hundred bucks more than what I paid for it. I informed him that I intended to keep it, as I'd woken up at Balls-o-clock the day that the local shop announced that they were going to take preorders in store for ten of them and waited out front for an hour or so to get it, which seemed to settle him. He went back to bother the clerk some more but, as the lady had told me I was the last to pick mine up, I don't imagine it worked out very well for him. Ah well, if he wants to pay well over MSRP, there's always ebay.
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:13 PM   #11
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*Brings back from dead* sorry

I didn't honestly bother trying to get the special 3DS for it. I'm not really interested in a New 3DS, and I already had the original one that came with ALBW. Plus by the time I got to it... they were long gone.

The game, however, I did get a couple of weeks ago. So far, it seems really cool, especially considering I had never played the original N64 game. It's a lot of fun, and super quirky for a Zelda game. It isn't my favorite though. It's a bit too focused on side quest-y stuff in my opinion; it feels like I'm playing some kind of MMORPG but without the MM. Which isn't necessarily bad, but I certainly prefer my dungeon/field exploration time more than side quests, and that doesn't seem like something that is very prominent in this game. Meanwhile, the whole mask-transforming scheme is pretty neat and provides a sort of relief from the entirely item based formula. I don't mind the time mechanics either, but as someone who loves to explore freely it feels more like they add hassle rather than importance to anything in the game. It never really provided a huge issue for me, I just don't see the point. The only thing I liked about them is that you could watch things like the moon getting bigger each day... which I guess was pretty cool in its own right.
Overall, would definitely recommend this, especially if you never played it the first time around. The only exception would be if you absolutely despise Zelda side quests, in which case you won't get a whole lot of content out of this.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:12 PM   #12
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Over the last two weeks, I've been playing Ocarina of Time for the 3DS. (Started January 19. Actually completed it last night.) A couple of things ...

The definitive version: I would say that any OoT fan who also owns a 3DS owes it to themselves to play the game on 3DS the next time they play it at all. (Assuming a better-looking port isn't available by then.) That's because Ocarina of Time 3D for the 3DS is essentially a port of the N64 original with some very minor touch-ups in object placement and some rather significant touch-ups in graphics. I didn't notice it at first, but then I compared it against photographs of the N64 original and holy shit I didn't remember OoT looking this drab and lo-res!

vs.
3DS vs. N64

Everything you loved about the original game is still here, but either as it was originally or else improved upon. In my honest opinion, there's absolutely no justification for playing the N64 original or the GameCube port if you can shell out the $20-$30 to get your hands on a copy of this game for the 3DS you already own.

Personal impressions: For quite some time now -- ten, almost fifteen years -- I've told people that my favorite Zelda game is Wind Waker. And as I've often explained it, "It's a game that stands on the shoulders of giants. Individually it is not so giant as Ocarina of Time is, but it stands on that giant's shoulders and thus reaches to even greater heights." Paradoxically, I feel like none of that has changed and yet at the same time everything has. Because ... well, to quite frankly cut to the chase, Ocarina of Time has easily gained a full letter grade from me over where it was before, if not two whole letter grades. It's ... at worst, it's now tied with Wind Waker as my favorite Zelda experience of all time. At best, and if I'm being completely honest this is how I feel tonight as I write this post ... it's become my new No.1 favorite Zelda game of all time. ("ONE OF US! ONE OF US!" I can hear the OoT fanboys shouting. )

I dunno. I ... A lot of the problems I had with OoT before, I don't have anymore. A lot of the merits of OoT the fanboys have long seen, I always thought were blown way out of proportion but now find myself feeling similarly to them on. There are tiny little gems in OoT whose tininess I noticed before yet whose gemness I notice now, if that makes any sense. ("Tiny gems" in 2002 vs. "tiny gems" in 2017.) The balance has changed, if that makes sense. What's on the seesaw hasn't really changed, but the seesaw has gone from one position to the opposite.

Universe building: I used to always think that the fanboys read into every little detail in this game too much, but I found myself zealously being the one to lap up every little choice morsel of text this time around. I'm not sure why I didn't do so before. But a lot of what OoT does right for me is, it does a great job of sprinkling the seeds for a universe. The presentation is balanced, neither too in your face nor too easy to miss. It feels natural. And they cover a crapton of ground in very little text. I was frankly surprised by just how much stuff is already canonically present in OoT, stuff that for years now I've supposed either came from the later games or else came out of fans' personal headcanons.

Gameplay: The game offers a really perfect balance in terms of its difficulty. Tasks which will prove challenging to children and newcomers, they will generally require at most 1-3 days of challenge before they can overcome it. While that's too much for most working adults, it's pretty ideal for kids. At the same time, tasks which are easy for kids ... are not so easy as to make the game boring for adults. The game ramps up in challenge bit by bit. And it offers layer upon layer of challenge at every twist and turn, too. For example, you can take the easy road and never do the Gerudo horse riding exercise, you can do it and surpass 1,000 points to get a Piece of Heart, or you can keep at it and surpass 1,500 points to get a quiver upgrade. You choose the difficulty. A child is allowed to get frustrated and press on with the main plot after days of failed attempts, whereas an adult is invited to stop on by and maybe give the quiver upgrade an attempt or five.

It is also more fun to actually just play the game than I had remembered. In my defense, it's still much less fun (to me) than playing, say, Super Mario World (a supreme platformer) or Mario Kart 64 (a supreme racing game). But like ... I genuinely enjoyed playing this game, and not just for the story.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:33 PM   #13
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BORKED

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Old 04-19-2017, 09:02 AM   #14
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Yay, a topic where I can vent!

I hate how Link is cucked by Zelda in almost every timeline.

Except "The Hero of Legend" AKA ALTTP Link, AKA the Greatest Link Ever, who actually won the Zeldabowl. Though it might be more accurate in this case to say Zelda won the Linkbowl (poor Din!). Note he's not the "Greatest Link" because he won the bowl, that is merely the cherry on top, he won it based on merit only. Only Wind Waker's Link really compares in my eyes, and it's not even close. OOT Link is basically Luke Skywalker, while Skyward Sword Link is Padme Amidala to Zelda's Anakin Skywalker.

OOT is great but I think it's a little too heavy on the shipping. I think Malon wins in that timeline because:

Spoiler: show

1. I think it's a great plot twist that TP Link, aka the "Hero of Twilight", is part Gerudo
2. TP Link is a rancher like Malon/Talon
3. Malon is the only girl Link's age who doesn't go full sage on him. Even in the Child Timeline I think that puts Saria and Ruto off-limits.
4. She's basically the reincarnation of Marin who I think Nintendo felt they dealt a bad hand to. Marin herself was a reinterpretation of Zelda.


On that last note, Link's Awakening is a horrifying game, even more sinister than Majora's Mask in how subtle it is. Most Japanese anime/manga/games have not portrayed white whales positively:

-Ludo-Rathom is evil and cruel, and is responsible for sponsoring all the horrible rape and sadism in Rance's universe. He's the final boss in the super ending of Kichikuou Rance (and presumably, Rance Final) and is invincible.
-The Hakugei from Re:Zero which was the series boss and a real horror to face
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:08 PM   #15
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Malink 4 lyf. <3

I've never been a fan of the Zelink pairing, for a number of reasons. Namely in that it just doesn't make sense to me seeing as if they ever *did* hook up, that means their descendants would then be related.

I also rather like the idea of a "tragic romance" in the sense that their fates are always destined to intertwine, but can never be together. It probably stems from the fact my first exposure to the series was through the Nintendo Power ALttP comics, in which the two *don't* become a couple at the end, instead drifting apart once the quest is over as Link becomes preoccupied with protecting the Triforce.

...Also I just plain don't like OoT Zelda. *shot* Although more recent incarnations (WW & SS) have been warming me up to her; who knows, maybe BoW will change my mind.

I agree with the reasons you listed for supporting the Malink pairing though, from both a canonical and personal standpoint. I'm glad you pointed out the connection to Marin too, as Link's Awakening was actually the first Zelda game I played as a kid, so I have a bias towards her from there as well.

...Still tempted to write up that "MM is a dream" theory, in part based on parallels to LA. Hm...
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluecorsola View Post

I've never been a fan of the Zelink pairing, for a number of reasons. Namely in that it just doesn't make sense to me seeing as if they ever *did* hook up, that means their descendants would then be related.
Not necessarily. Zelda's line always carries the bloodline of Hylia. Outside of TP, Link doesn't even have a bloodline and Nintendo even tried to deny that OOT Link conceived TP Link at all (at first).

But it would be strange that Hylia never hooked up with her "chosen Hero" and instead shacked up with some random Chad. Hence why I criticzed the franchise for being a series of painful cuckings. But I find what happened to "Hero of Legend" Link the most satisfying because that Link rescued Zelda twice and ALTTP hints that Zelda-Link were childhood friends initially, from the surprising familiarity Zelda shows him early in the game. She then kisses him in front of her "rivals" Din and Nayru, who I also suspect are the mortal incarnations of both Triforce goddesses. Zelda is laying claim.

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I also rather like the idea of a "tragic romance" in the sense that their fates are always destined to intertwine, but can never be together. It probably stems from the fact my first exposure to the series was through the Nintendo Power ALttP comics, in which the two *don't* become a couple at the end, instead drifting apart once the quest is over as Link becomes preoccupied with protecting the Triforce.
My beef is that except in a few situations where Zelda-Link actually hit it off, it's not a romance so much as it's roleplay of the hero and damsel-in-distress. So there really is no tragedy unless you blindly ship Link/Zelda irrespective of context.

It's tragic in a bad way when Link doesn't pair up with Tetra or Ghost Zelda. Since ALTTP game hints Zelda is Link's childhood friend, it seems strange to me that they would drift apart when Link's constant defeats of Ganon just brings them closer, culminating in the portrait story.

Link generally has better relationships with girls he interacts more with, which tend to not be Zelda. Malon, Midna come to mind immediately. In OOT's case, Link is sagezoned since he has good chemistry with all the female sages (including Sheik) prior to the "muh duty" scenes.

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...Also I just plain don't like OoT Zelda. *shot* Although more recent incarnations (WW & SS) have been warming me up to her; who knows, maybe BoW will change my mind.
The cel shaded 3D Zelda games seem to be on to something. The realistic 3D Zelda games, and the 2D Zelda games, for the most part, have the most boring princess.

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I agree with the reasons you listed for supporting the Malink pairing though, from both a canonical and personal standpoint. I'm glad you pointed out the connection to Marin too, as Link's Awakening was actually the first Zelda game I played as a kid, so I have a bias towards her from there as well.
The Gerudo thing is a conclusion I jumped to, but thematically it makes the most sense if you view the Gerudos as the "evil" race in OOT, and TP Link is supposed to be "ambiguous" given the light/dark framework of earlier Zelda titles. TP Link is the only incarnation who represents the Triforce of Power as much as the Triforce of Courage, in no small part to him being able to lift heavy objects without the need of a power bracelet/gauntlet (he is incredibly muscular) and use the most powerful Master Sword & sword techniques. Only the non-Hyrule Master Sword, boosted by the Red Ring is stronger than TP Link's attacks.

IMV, the only true trait of the Gerudo is the red hair. People look at Nabooru as the prototypical Gerudo and I disagree with that, because:

-Koume has blue 'hair', even if she has the long nose
-The inhabitants of Labrynna and Holodrum have round ears, indicating round ears is not exclusively a Gerudo trait
-Oracle Din, who is clearly intended to be the mortal incarnation of Goddess Din (the sponsor of the Gerudo), has long ears and a normal nose. But she's also a gypsy and lives a nomadic lifestyle, wandering from place to place to enliven people with her dance.

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...Still tempted to write up that "MM is a dream" theory, in part based on parallels to LA. Hm...
I don't consider LA's a real dream really. That's why it's a scary title. It is so somber I can't even make jokes about the title being a coming-of-age metaphor.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:19 PM   #17
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My beef is that except in a few situations where Zelda-Link actually hit it off, it's not a romance so much as it's roleplay of the hero and damsel-in-distress. So there really is no tragedy unless you blindly ship Link/Zelda irrespective of context.

It's tragic in a bad way when Link doesn't pair up with Tetra or Ghost Zelda. Since ALTTP game hints Zelda is Link's childhood friend, it seems strange to me that they would drift apart when Link's constant defeats of Ganon just brings them closer, culminating in the portrait story.

Link generally has better relationships with girls he interacts more with, which tend to not be Zelda. Malon, Midna come to mind immediately. In OOT's case, Link is sagezoned since he has good chemistry with all the female sages (including Sheik) prior to the "muh duty" scenes.
I have the same beef as you, and like you said most of the games haven't done much to dispel the fact that Link and Zelda just don't have very much chemistry/interaction as characters. Hence I admire the "tragic romance" aspect more as an overall concept than an actual in-game phenomenon.

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The Gerudo thing is a conclusion I jumped to, but thematically it makes the most sense if you view the Gerudos as the "evil" race in OOT, and TP Link is supposed to be "ambiguous" given the light/dark framework of earlier Zelda titles. TP Link is the only incarnation who represents the Triforce of Power as much as the Triforce of Courage, in no small part to him being able to lift heavy objects without the need of a power bracelet/gauntlet (he is incredibly muscular) and use the most powerful Master Sword & sword techniques. Only the non-Hyrule Master Sword, boosted by the Red Ring is stronger than TP Link's attacks.
I hadn't really considered Malon (and Link by extension) having any connection to the Gerudo, as I just assumed she was a Hylian born with red hair. But I suppose it's entirely plausible her mother could've been a Gerudo. I like where you're heading though with the theme of TP Link being the bridge between "light" and "dark", so to speak. The very fact he transforms into a beast in Twilight, and Telma the barkeep (who is all but confirmed to be descended from Gerudo herself) remarks on how "feral" his eyes are says something about how he's meant to be a bit more "ambiguous", as you say. Although I feel like his "superhuman strength" is more an example of power creep, it's an interesting observation that lends credence to your theory.

Incidentally, I feel like the TP manga may be going in a similar direction by giving Link a backstory where he originated outside of Ordon Village, and was actually running from the guilt of his past wherein his actions led to his entire hometown being "destroyed". A bit of an odd stretch IMO, but points for originality.

(Still prefer my original theory that the Hero's Shade is TP Link's father, but ah well.)

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I don't consider LA's a real dream really. That's why it's a scary title. It is so somber I can't even make jokes about the title being a coming-of-age metaphor.
It is a somber tragedy if you take it at face value and consider that Link's actions, in essence, amount to him ultimately destroying an entire island and its inhabitants. Hence Marin getting dealt a bad hand despite sharing some of the most obvious romantic scenes with our "hero" (for the time).
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:28 PM   #18
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I hadn't really considered Malon (and Link by extension) having any connection to the Gerudo, as I just assumed she was a Hylian born with red hair. But I suppose it's entirely plausible her mother could've been a Gerudo. I like where you're heading though with the theme of TP Link being the bridge between "light" and "dark", so to speak. The very fact he transforms into a beast in Twilight, and Telma the barkeep (who is all but confirmed to be descended from Gerudo herself) remarks on how "feral" his eyes are says something about how he's meant to be a bit more "ambiguous", as you say. Although I feel like his "superhuman strength" is more an example of power creep, it's an interesting observation that lends credence to your theory.

Incidentally, I feel like the TP manga may be going in a similar direction by giving Link a backstory where he originated outside of Ordon Village, and was actually running from the guilt of his past wherein his actions led to his entire hometown being "destroyed". A bit of an odd stretch IMO, but points for originality.

(Still prefer my original theory that the Hero's Shade is TP Link's father, but ah well.)
There are hints that Malon is a Gerudo due to dialogue and interactions with Talon, and talk with merchants in Gerudo Town who hint about Gerudos living outside of their village. The most powerful sign of being a Gerudo descendant is being female, after that it would be the red hair. Dark skin, eye colour, and nose are a lot more inconsistent. In the OOT manga for example, Nabooru has a normal nose.

If I told you Twilight Princess takes place 100 years after Ocarina of Time the Gerudo connection is a lot more clear. Why couldn't the Hero's Shade pass down his techniques to the next generation? If he needed a male heir to take up swordsmanship, his descendants being Gerudo (and so all female) meant that he would have to wait 100 years before a male Gerudo would be born. In most Zelda timelines where Ganon dies, this usually involves Ganondorf being reborn to the Gerudo tribe, but since Ganondorf is still alive, merely sealed in the Child Timeline, a new male Gerudo could be spawned. How ironic that this time, it's Link, Ganon's eternal nemesis.

The Gerudo seem extinct in Twilight Princess but Hyrule Historia establishes that they are active again after TP. What gives? A new Gerudo King emerged to reorganize the clan's descendants after they had dispersed out among the other races in the Zelda world. That doesn't sound like something Ganondorf would do. So...

Note that Malon = Gerudo and TP Link = Gerudo are not necessarily correlated, but it's a nice way to weave one theory into another.

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It is a somber tragedy if you take it at face value and consider that Link's actions, in essence, amount to him ultimately destroying an entire island and its inhabitants. Hence Marin getting dealt a bad hand despite sharing some of the most obvious romantic scenes with our "hero" (for the time).
I blame the Wind Fish more.

White whales, as I previously pointed out, are highly magical and also very evil in Japanese fiction. The Wind Fish is a deity, so it's fair to say that the island is not merely just a "dream" of his that Link was caught in, but a world created by the Wind Fish. Dream people do not have souls in the same way that Koholint Island's residents did.

I like to think that the Wind Fish wanted to kill off the island's residents, and merely absolved Link of blame for the role he played in leading the Wind Fish to that action. It is still very sinister.
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:23 AM   #19
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If I told you Twilight Princess takes place 100 years after Ocarina of Time the Gerudo connection is a lot more clear. Why couldn't the Hero's Shade pass down his techniques to the next generation? If he needed a male heir to take up swordsmanship, his descendants being Gerudo (and so all female) meant that he would have to wait 100 years before a male Gerudo would be born. In most Zelda timelines where Ganon dies, this usually involves Ganondorf being reborn to the Gerudo tribe, but since Ganondorf is still alive, merely sealed in the Child Timeline, a new male Gerudo could be spawned. How ironic that this time, it's Link, Ganon's eternal nemesis.
Ehh this gets into a gender bias I'm not keen on, since female Gerudo are shown to be every bit as talented sword-wielders and I see no reason why OoT Link couldn't pass down his techniques to a daughter/female descendant. I imagine it's simply because he unfortunately met an untimely demise for some reason (although as you allude to it doesn't explain why his spirit waited 100 years to appear before a protégé/progeny - again why I prefer my interpretation that the Hero's Shade should be TP Link's directly deceased father).

On that note, I'd very much like to see a female Link at some point - not as a novelty ŕ la Hyrule Warriors, but featured as a main protagonist (option if necessary). Who's to say the Hero of Legend can't be female? Link's bloodline must have surely fathered some girls, and I don't see why they should be exempt from inheriting the Triforce of Courage.

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I blame the Wind Fish more.

White whales, as I previously pointed out, are highly magical and also very evil in Japanese fiction. The Wind Fish is a deity, so it's fair to say that the island is not merely just a "dream" of his that Link was caught in, but a world created by the Wind Fish. Dream people do not have souls in the same way that Koholint Island's residents did.

I like to think that the Wind Fish wanted to kill off the island's residents, and merely absolved Link of blame for the role he played in leading the Wind Fish to that action. It is still very sinister.
Funny story: I only played LA on an emulator, and my ROM was borked so I could never achieve the ending, as the game would freeze the moment Link approached the Wind Fish after defeating the final boss. So he'd just stand there at the top of the stairs, watching this giant fish just hover there in space lol. Truly the most sinister plot, to entrap Link and the island's populace in limbo for eternity. *shot*

I did end up watching the credits on YT years later, including both versions wherein the secret DX ending Marin appears to turn into a seagull, as she had told Link she dreamed of becoming. Connection to Aryll perhaps?
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:52 AM   #20
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Ehh this gets into a gender bias I'm not keen on, since female Gerudo are shown to be every bit as talented sword-wielders and I see no reason why OoT Link couldn't pass down his techniques to a daughter/female descendant. I imagine it's simply because he unfortunately met an untimely demise for some reason (although as you allude to it doesn't explain why his spirit waited 100 years to appear before a protégé/progeny - again why I prefer my interpretation that the Hero's Shade should be TP Link's directly deceased father).
I don't believe the untimely death speculation because the Hero's Shade talks like an old man. While you could say he adopted that speaking style after years of being a ghost, it feels like a stretch to say that a young man's ghost would stop talking like a young man. Additionally, the Hero's Shade displayed fighting techniques that he did not display in Ocarina or MM, and they originated from him through training or adventuring. His despair at "not being remembered" as a hero seems odd if he was still fairly young, that is more a problem old people have about their accomplishments prior to newer generations being born. To me this evidence adds up to a long life with a long-percolating sense of regret.

While the gender bias might be upsetting, we have to remember Nintendo is not America and the developers have different perceptions about gender roles than we do. Zelda herself, for example, is more often that not the damsel-in-distress prize to be won. She's only progressive in a few games, and in one of those games she's outright a tomboy and becomes a damsel again once in Zelda robes.

TP Link is right-handed while OOT Link is a southpaw. Maybe OOT Link was waiting for that. Who knows!

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On that note, I'd very much like to see a female Link at some point - not as a novelty ŕ la Hyrule Warriors, but featured as a main protagonist (option if necessary). Who's to say the Hero of Legend can't be female? Link's bloodline must have surely fathered some girls, and I don't see why they should be exempt from inheriting the Triforce of Courage.
Well, I think Hyrule Warriors is good evidence as to why Link can't be female, because "Linkle" was originally going to be a female Link before being retconned into a different character.

A certain doujin may have had do with that...

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Funny story: I only played LA on an emulator, and my ROM was borked so I could never achieve the ending, as the game would freeze the moment Link approached the Wind Fish after defeating the final boss. So he'd just stand there at the top of the stairs, watching this giant fish just hover there in space lol. Truly the most sinister plot, to entrap Link and the island's populace in limbo for eternity. *shot*

I did end up watching the credits on YT years later, including both versions wherein the secret DX ending Marin appears to turn into a seagull, as she had told Link she dreamed of becoming. Connection to Aryll perhaps?
I didn't know about the special ending except for online research. I think that's a half-hearted way of trying to make the players not suicidal after that literally apocalyptic ending.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:03 AM   #21
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TP Link is right-handed while OOT Link is a southpaw. Maybe OOT Link was waiting for that. Who knows!
Bear in mind TP was originally released for the GC where Link retained his left-handedness, and the game was simply mirror-flipped for the Wii port. I myself only own the GC version, and consider it the canonical one in my mind. SS unfortunately still deviates from the norm, although I still don't see why they couldn't have simply included a left-handed option, as one of my friends who's himself a leftie has complained about.

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A certain doujin may have had do with that...
...Dare I ask which doujin?

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I didn't know about the special ending except for online research. I think that's a half-hearted way of trying to make the players not suicidal after that literally apocalyptic ending.
On the bright side, the staff roll has some nice music. Love the little chime sound effect that works with the tinniness of the GB.
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:19 PM   #22
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imo the Hero's Shade was waiting for the next hero, as in the next person who could wield the Master Sword, so that he could pass on his knowledge to them. And the Master Sword is verrrry picky about who can wield it iirc, with it being limited to only the chosen Hero of Time. As to why WW!Link can wield it, hell knows.

Which reminds me of another thing: Who's to say that the Links are even remotely related? Who's to say that they're not just a recurring mold fitted by different, possibly unrelated people like Impa? The faces change but the names remain the same. Doesn't make them all the same people.
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:22 AM   #23
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For the most part, they aren't related. The only link between them is their name, their left-handedness, clothing and Hylian ancestry. Versus every Zelda who is related, and every Ganondorf/Ganon who is actually the same person.

The exceptions are..."Hero of Legend" who is featured in multiple games, ALTTP, Oracle, and LA; "Hero of Time" aka OOT Link, featured in Ocarina, Majora, and TP; and TP Link, who was confirmed by HH to be a descendant of Ocarina Link (although Nintendo initially denied this).
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:09 AM   #24
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Also the Hero of Winds (WW/PH).
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:29 PM   #25
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Either way, I don't see why a female couldn't be born with the same qualities becoming of a hero. Link is already pretty androgynous, and I don't even see a need to change the name since it doesn't seem inherently gendered. (Heck, most people think he's called "Zelda" anyway. *shot*)
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