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Old 05-13-2014, 08:01 PM   #51
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Oh. What's Eelektross doing in S tier? It's good, best electric for sure, and is cool as hell, but not an S. Drop it to A.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:40 PM   #52
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Eelektross has a wide range of physical and special moves, doesn't fear its single weaknesses, can float and breath underwater, can score SE on a wide range of Pokémon and is also pretty fuckin' neato. What drops it to A?
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:56 PM   #53
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Shouldnt Mega Blaziken be ranked Higher than his normal form? According to his SC, he does everything normal Blaziken does, but better.

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In its Mega Form, Blaziken becomes an extremely fast, nimble and adept fighter. Blaziken moves with great speed, allowing it to rapidly change positions to evade attacks, jump exceedingly high and far, and close even great distances to deliver assaults.
Basically its saying that Mega Blaziken is normal Blaziken on steroids. I move for either A or A+
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Old 05-13-2014, 09:00 PM   #54
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The Mega Forme doesn't really give it a huge advantage; being able to move fast is great and all, but the inability to use it on a team with other Pokémon and the fact that it takes up your Mega Slot is not as great. Increased speed is also not super awesome in the ASB. The only times I'd say Megas will easily outrank their normal counterparts is when they give them a better typing (see: Mega Aggron, Mega Amphy) or when their SC gives them a completely different playstyle (see: Mega Banette). Only really in lower ranks do Megas make a huge difference, with Pokémon like Manectric who are taken from mediocre to threatening, where Blaziken is taken from above average to only slightly more above average.
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Old 05-13-2014, 09:04 PM   #55
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So being more adept to combo-dodging (dodging while using a move ie going under a move while using Brave Bird) doesnt mean that much, nor being able to close the distance between Pokemon faster than most, if not all (idk) others doesnt make that much of a difference?
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Old 05-13-2014, 09:06 PM   #56
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Not enough to really make them that much different play-wise. Being able to win speed arguments more often does not really constitute a difference in playstyle.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:01 PM   #57
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Mobility is generally useful up until the point where your ref is no longer going to penalise your dodging on the basis of "lol slow", but the benefits rapidly tail off beyond that imo.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:52 PM   #58
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Yeah Eelektross is definitely S.
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:36 AM   #59
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Shuckle definitely belongs in S rank, being an OP monster.

I'm surprised Gallade isn't S, since I've heard his virtues extolled here before. Is he just not on the level of an S rank? Why is he just A? Did he get outclassed at some point?

Alakazam should be a little higher as well. He has a lot of KO potential and a nice support moveset (yay gen1). At least A- I'd say.

But remember I'm still TL1 and a terrible battler. Feel free to ignore literally everything I say.
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:25 AM   #60
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Gallade is a pretty solid Pokémon, but it can't do shit to Fairies, ironically, though being less afraid of Ghosts and Fliers than Medicham does give it a leg up in that area. Its moveset also exists in this weird limbo between a Special and Physical attacker, leaving it very okay but not amazing at both. It's unquestionably a good Pokémon but it's by no means perfect, and not really on par with other S's. That said, I could see a good argument for A+, but it falls short of S.

Alakazam is probably not deserving of B-, but it's also very awkward physically and struggles pretty hard against Ghosts. Though it can defend itself okay, Psychic is rather poor defensively. It also really doesn't help that two of its contemporaries, Mr. Mime and Gardevoir, have both gotten a defensively-beneficial type change that causes 'Zam to be pretty outclassed.

I think that 'Zam and Mime both should bump up to A and A- respectively, though.
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Old 05-21-2014, 01:18 PM   #61
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I'd peg Gallade at A+. It's definitely going to score you a KO but it's not perfect. Alakazam isn't that grand in the scheme of things. Mr Mime is probably better.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:45 PM   #62
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Shouldn't Lickilicky be S rank? He has a move ocean that rivals Clefable, and he doesn't stress under large crowds. Moreover, he has that badass tongue.

Also, where would you guys put Volcarona? He seems to be one of the few Bugs missing on the list, along with Forretress. Galvantula too.

EDIT:

Actually, maybe Kairne or Stu could do a Bug analysis on the common Bugs not mentioned in the OP, including Yanmega, Ledian, Armaldo, and Masquerain. For Ledian and Masquerain, I'd also be interested to know how much their viability might theoretically change depending on their ubiquitous Type-Changes (Bug/Fighting and Bug/Water respectively).

Last edited by Schadenfreude; 05-21-2014 at 02:55 PM. Reason: A Bug's Life
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:52 PM   #63
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If it weighed as much as Snorlax it would be better than Snorlax. But it isn't. Though I think it's better than Wiggly.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:56 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schadenfreude View Post
Shouldn't Lickilicky be S rank? He has a move ocean that rivals Clefable, and he doesn't stress under large crowds. Moreover, he has that badass tongue.

Also, where would you guys put Volcarona? He seems to be one of the few Bugs missing on the list, along with Forretress.
The funny thins with Lickikicky is that he's arguably better than Snorlax, and if he had Snorlax's size he would be the better choice. While I do agree Lickilicky has S rank potential, but he's fine where he's at. Also pretty much what Kush said.

Now, Volc is more in the mid to low Bs for me. Offensively, he's arguably the best of the moths. Bug/Fire/Electric coverage is pretty good, and there's few things I can think of that doesn't take that neutrally. Though in realty, Volc is pretty much a one trick pony. While it's great offensively for a bug squad... It can't do to much besides that.

Now, something I think is Scolipede should be higher. Either A- or B+. While as a poison, I agree on SS's points, he's invaluable for a bug squad. He can cover pretty much all of his weaknesses with his movepool, and has a pretty decent amount of off type. He hits hard, and has a really respectable size. Trust me in that Scolipede makes Steamroller worth it. While he's not an all powerful monster, but he truly has earned the nickname "Scolitrain" for bring arguably one of the best offensive bugs.

>Masq/Ledian

It's crazy how their viability changes with one type change.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:02 PM   #65
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Now, Volc is more in the mid to low Bs for me. Offensively, he's arguably the best of the moths. Bug/Fire/Electric coverage is pretty good, and there's few things I can think of that doesn't take that neutrally. Though in realty, Volc is pretty much a one trick pony. While it's great offensively for a bug squad... It can't do to much besides that.
Don't forget Flight and Flying-type coverage. Although Volcarona vs Volcarona in the PokeBowl Finals was mind-numbing, I'd like to think that Volcarona's movepool is just diverse enough to perform well against many Pokemon. Bug/Fire/Electric/Flying/Grass/Psychic/Poison is great in terms of coverage, although the only Grass/Poison moves that Mothra gets are Solarbeam (situational) and Poison Jab (ehhh).
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:53 PM   #66
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Ledian is pretty awesome as Bug/Fighting (although now Fairy makes it less appealing), and Masquerain is pretty sweet as Bug/Water. But sigs mess up the viability scale being organised here (which is one of the reasons I don't post ranking here: Many of my Pokemon I use with sigs, so I don't see their non-sigged use as much)
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Old 05-22-2014, 12:32 AM   #67
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The issue is there is never going to be a "standard" type change sig. You literally can't judge a Bug/Fighting Ledian's viability because you don't know how each sig works.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:54 AM   #68
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Yeah this endeavour is rendered pretty irrelevant if you factor in HPs and sigs. Best not to.
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:38 PM   #69
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Volcarona's biggest problem is that it straight up hates Rock attacks and really can't do much against them.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:16 PM   #70
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Why is Mega Banette A?
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:20 PM   #71
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Why is Mega Banette A?
My guess is lolCurseStall
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:34 PM   #72
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Well, curse stall is ok, we basically rewrote Banette and Curse to make it doable, but in no way is that an effective counter to Shadow Ball x4.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:42 PM   #73
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Because if you're using Curse and solely Curse with Meganette you're doing it very wrong. But basically Banette gets access to every single status save for freeze, doesn't fear other Ghosts heavily at all (in fact she gets almost every Ghost move and a ton of Dark moves) leaving her only fear being Dark which isn't that great offensively, has a metric ton of utility and some great defensive moves, and benefits from simply being a Ghost.

And yes, I realize she doesn't have that much in the way of types in her movepool, but the fact is she doesn't need them. She's not meant to be an offensive powerhouse, and I frankly think that the powerhouse build shouldn't be the only thing capable of landing a 'mon a spot in the higher tiers. She is a truly glorious utility 'mon.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:49 PM   #74
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Oh absolutely; Banette is fucking terrible in the traditional ASB framework but you and I make it work to a point. But simply having Ghost and Dark moves doesn't counter Ghost types. Can it stand up to other Ghosts?
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Old 05-22-2014, 04:12 PM   #75
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Quite wonderfully, actually, but then that can really be said for any Ghost that doesn't have complete garbage for a movepool and has access to Calm Mind/Psych Up. And its natural state being solid is certainly better than those that prefer gaseous/ethereal, while still being capable of going ethereal and invisible.
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