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Old 05-05-2014, 04:42 PM   #1
Jerichi
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Kecleon The ASB Viability Rankings Thread! (S and A Discussion)

So Smogon does these things for their larger tiers and I thought it'd be a fun thing to discuss in the context of the ASB. It'll also help give us a resource to point newbies to when asking about the viability/usefulness of whatever Pokémon or what's good to start with.

Here's the drill: we're going to talk about Pokémon in the ASB and rank them into tiers based on a number of qualifications. Pokémon in these tiers should fit a majority of the qualities that are outlined; ones that fit them perfectly will be in the plus tier, ones that fit them for the most part will be in the no sign tier and ones that miss the mark but don't qualify for the lower tiers will be in the minus tier.

Since there are a LOT of Pokémon that are usable in the ASB, I'm going to start with a blank list and I'll need community suggestions. To start, please suggest your top 5 Pokémon for each list, and we'll add in from there. Once we've generated a decent list, we'll start sub-tiering and adding in those that didn't make the first cut, as well as shuffling those around after discussion.

Let's lay out some ground-rules for discussion.
  1. Please post intelligently! This is for viability, not "this Pokémon is my favorite I use it a lot". Give reasons behind why you think a Pokémon should go where it goes. (Initial posting doesn't need this but additions/movements will)
  2. Please only post final forms, unless you have a substantial argument as to why an NFE would tier. Pokémon who have a substantial difference in playstyle from their evolutions without a substantial difference in power (e.g. Scyther vs. Scizor) are acceptable, but Pokémon whose evolutions outclass them (e.g. Gastly vs. Gengar) should be avoided.
  3. When proposing a Pokémon, please specify the rank and subrank it should fit into! Remember, it must fit a majority of the description to qualify. If it only fits it partly, it will be minus, if it fits it mostly, it will be neutral, if it fits it perfectly, it will be plus. To qualify for S-Rank, it must meet all the criteria for the most part.
  4. Please post respectfully! This discussion is not about which Pokémon is cooler or about the best Pokémon ever. If a discussion on a Pokémon takes over the discussion of the thread or becomes too heated, it will be blacklisted for discussion for a time until people have had time to form critical arguments.
  5. No spam. This may be a TO thread but I'd like to take this at least moderately seriously.

Although I am an LO, please be aware that this is NOT an official thread and these statements are NOT endorsed by LOs or the league. This is simply something I thought would be fun to do and help the league understand its meta better. However, I do reserve the rights to use my LO authority to punish rulebreakers and make executive decisions as the curator of this project.


Anime Style Battling Pokémon Viability List


S through B
Spoiler: show
S-Rank: Reserved for Pokémon who can reliably score at least one, if not two, KOs on a large range of Pokémon. Its moveset is large and diverse, both physically and specially, allowing for it to counter a wide range of threats and score super-effective damage on most Pokémon. It can reliably cover its weaknesses and its STABs allow for enough coverage not to have to rely on off-types OR its offtype pool is large enough to allow for reliable KOs with limited use of STAB. Its support set is reasonably large and contains more than one type of useful support move, including but not limited to healing, energy recovery, switching, trapping, or high-level boosting moves.

S
Absol
Absol (Mega)
Clefable
Eelektross
Gengar
Gengar (Mega)
Snorlax
Wigglytuff

A-Rank: Reserved for Pokémon who can reliably score at least one KO on a large range of Pokémon. Its moveset is relatively large, with a good balance of physical and special, allowing it to counter a wide range of threats and score super-effective damage reliably. It can generally cover its weaknesses, but may have one fairly large weakness or a weakness it fails to cover. Its offtype pool OR its STABs have good enough coverage for it to reliably perform, though there may be a number of Pokémon who fail to take SE damage or resist some sizable portion of its moves. Its support set is workable, containing at least one useful support move, including but not limited to healing, energy recovery, switching, trapping, or high-level boosting moves.

A+
Dragonite
Dusknoir
Gardevoir
Gardevoir (Mega)
Hydregion
Lapras
Lickilicky
Lucario (Mega)
Metagross

A
Electivire
Gallade
Lucario
Mismagius
Muk
Nidoking
Slaking
Slowbro
Slowking


A-
Banette (Mega)
Blaziken
Blaziken (Mega)
Drapion
Feraligatr
Flygon
Granbull
Gliscor
Infernape
Kangaskhan (Mega)
Ludicolo
Marowak
Mr. Mime
Nidoqueen
Octillery
Pinsir (Mega)
Politoed
Raichu
Starmie
Steelix
Swampert
Tentacruel
Ursaring

B-Rank: Reserved for Pokémon who can reliably score at least one KO with a reasonably good match-up. Its moveset is fairly large, with a decent balance of physical and special, possibly biased towards one or the other. It has a robust set of STAB moves that cover its weaknesses well and off-type moves that allow it to function well in neutral situations, but may fail to defend itself easily outside of STABs. Its typing may be defensively poor, having few resistances or a number of weaknesses, but it is reasonably capable of defending against Pokémon capable of exploiting these moves. Its support set may be poor or limited, though it may have access to at least one useful support move, including but not limited to healing, energy recovery, switching, trapping, or high-level boosting moves.

B+
Alakazam
Alakazam (Mega)
Altaria
Aggron (Mega)
Ambipom
Azumarill
Blissey
Charizard (Mega X)
Dragalge
Ferrothorn
Furret
Goodra
Gyarados
Gyarados (Mega)
Hypno
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Miltank
Ninetales
Poliwrath
Primeape
Skuntank
Tangrowth
Togekiss
Toxicroak
Tyranitar
Tyranitar (Mega)
Volcarona
Zangoose


B
Aerodactyl (Mega)
Arbok
Blastoise
Blastoise (Mega)
Crawdaunt
Crobat
Durant
Empoleon
Garchomp
Garchomp (Mega)
Haxorus
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Houndoom (Mega)
Hariyama
Kangaskhan
Magmortar
Mienshao
Noivern
Pinsir
Porygon-Z
Raticate
Roserade
Rotom + Formes
Salamance
Venusaur (Mega)


B-
Ampharos
Ampharos (Mega)
Arcanine
Aromatisse
Bisharp
Charizard
Charizard (Mega Y)
Claydol
Darmanitan
Donphan
Druddigon
Exploud
Froslass
Garbodor
Galvantula
Gastrodon
Gothitelle
Heatmor
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Kecleon
Krookodile
Linoone
Lopunny
Manectric (Mega)
Mantine
Mawile
Mawile (Mega)
Milotic
Omastar
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Rampardos
Reuniclus
Scoliopede
Seismitoad
Seviper
Sigilyph
Skarmory
Slurpuff
Swalot
Swoobat
Torkoal
Venusaur
Weezing
Whimsicott
Whiscash
Xatu
Zebstrika
Zoroark

Have fun!

Last edited by Jerichi; 08-03-2014 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:47 PM   #2
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C through F
Spoiler: show
C-Rank: Reserved for Pokémon who have a niche against a certain set of Pokémon, able to score a reliable KO against a set of common threats or a specific type of Pokémon. With proper support or squad planning, it will be able to reliably defeat a number of Pokémon. Its moveset may be somewhat limited, with a skew towards physical or special. Its STAB moveset is fairly wide and covers its weaknesses reasonably and its off-type pool may help cover weaknesses, but is either limited or does not differentiate from its STAB moves. Its typing may be defensively poor, having a number of weaknesses, and it may fail to defend itself against Pokémon capable of exploiting these moves. Its support moveset may be poor.

C+
Aegislash
Abomasnow
Abomasnow (Mega)
Archeops
Armaldo
Audino
Beartic
Bouffalant
Breloom
Bastiodon
Cacturne
Carracosta
Cinccino
Clawitzer
Crustle
Dunsparce
Emboar
Escavalier
Exeggutor
Floatzel
Glalie
Gogoat
Golurk
Heliolisk
Jellicent
Jynx
Lanturn
Luxray
Mandibuzz
Manectric
Rhyperior
Pelipper
Persian
Probopass
Relicanth
Sableye
Scizor
Scizor (Mega)
Sharpedo
Shiftry
Staraptor
Tauros
Venomoth
Walrein
Yanmega


C
Accelgor
Aggron
Avalugg
Barbaracle
Braviary
Bronzong
Camerupt
Castform
Cloyster
Conkeldurr
Corsola
Delcatty
Diggersby
Drifblim
Dugtrio
Excadrill
Florges
Forretress
Gigalith
Girafarig
Gorebyss
Greninja
Heracross
Heracross (Mega)
Huntail
Kingler
Lumineon
Lunatone
Malamar
Masquerain
Medicham
Medicham (Mega)
Musharna
Noctowl
Pangoro
Pidgeot
Pyroar
Rapidash
Sawsbuck
Sceptile
Scrafty
Seaking
Shuckle
Solrock
Spinda
Stoutland
Stunfisk
Swellow
Talonflame
Torterra
Treveant
Typhlosion
Tyrantrum
Wailord
Weavile


C-
Ariados
Aurorus
Banette
Beedrill
Beheeyem
Carbink
Chatot
Chesnaught
Chimecho
Cradily
Dustox
Espeon
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Gourgeist
Hippowdon
Illumise
Jolteon
Kabutops
Liepard
Maractus
Ninjask
Parasect
Samurott
Scyther
Sudowoodo
Swanna
Sylveon
Vaporeon
Volbeat


D-Rank: Reserved for Pokémon who have a useful niche against a Pokémon, but need support from other team members to succeed or must have other threats eliminated before they are able to reliably score a KO. These Pokémon may have poor or limited STAB moves and a small variety of off-type moves, but their moves are reasonably effective against certain threats. Their weaknesses may not be well covered, varied, or they may have multiple x4 weaknesses. Its support moveset may be poor.

D+
Alomomola
Butterfree
Chandelure
Delibird
Delphox
Dewgong
Electrode
Emolga
Flareon
Glaceon
Golem
Leafeon
Ledian
Lilligant
Meganium
Migthyena
Spiritomb
Stantler
Umbreon
Unfezant


D
Amoonguss
Basculin
Bellossom
Beautifly
Carnivine
Cofagrigus
Cryogonal
Dodrio
Furfrou
Jumpluff
Klefki
Klinklang
Leavanny
Purugly
Magcargo
Serperior
Shedinja
Sunflora
Tropius
Vanilluxe
Victreebel
Vileplume
Vivillon
Watchog
Wormadam (all formes)

F-Rank: Reserved for Pokémon whose flaws are relatively crippling. These Pokémon may find some success in limited situations, but they largely have problems securing a KO. Their moveset may be largely limited to their STABs and relatively small. Though their typing might be offensively or defensively viable, their moveset does not allow them to take advantage of this. Their weaknesses are largely not covered or too broad for them to easily cover them. Although they may have a sizable support movepool, they are unable to use it effectively.

F
Dedenne
Kricketune
Luvdisc
Minun
Mothim
Pachirisu
Plusle
Vespiquen

F--
Unown

??? Rank: Pokémon of this rank have an extremely wide range of applications or options, or have a playstyle that is extremely unique and situational. Pokémon in this rank can be very potent in the correct situations or with the right sig, but cannot be ranked by conventional standards.

Ditto
Smeargle
Wobbuffet

Last edited by Jerichi; 08-03-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:52 PM   #3
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CLEFABLE FOR S RANK.

Alright, I'm being serious here. Clefable is one of the few Pokemon with a Move Ocean. It pretty much gets access to practically every single type, and has a pretty good typing. While it hasn't escaped the dreaded Normal SC with its new Fairy Typing, it's still a large threat. While it's now weak to poison and steels, it's also now resistant to it's previous weakness. It also has a really large support movepool, and can play a large variety of roles for a team. A good Clefable user is completely unpredictable, using all parts of her movepool to good use. I mean, one minute she can be nuking you from a distance, and the next minute she'll be punching you into next week. Also, her limited flight really helps as well (though, not as much as it could).

Regardless, do I have to explain anything else? She does have some cons, which mostly goes to the Normal!SC and her smaller size and no bulk. Though, she can more than make up these short comings.

Anyways, lists (Note, these are my general feelings. For some Pokemon I would think they'd be higher/lower, but I generally see them here).

S
1. Clefable
2. Dragonite
3. Snorlax
4. Hydreigon
5. Drapion

A+
1. Metagross
2. Rhyperior
3. Gengar
4. Tyranitar
5. Kingdra

A
1. Gallade
2. Gardevoir
3. Nidoking
4. Lucario
5. Electivire

A-
1. Ludicolo
2. Flygon
3. Nidoqueen
4. Absol
5. Lapras

B+

1. Aegislash
2. Goodra
3. Golurk
4. Gyrados
5. Marowak

B
1. Garchomp
2. Mr. Mime
3. Magmortar
4. Salamance
5. Porygon-Z

B-
1. Mawile
2. Scolipede
3. Charizard
4. Venusaur
5. Alakazam


C+
1. Jynx
2. Scizor
3. Sableye
4. Starmie
5. Lanturn

C
1. Tauros
2. Kangaskan
3. Sceptile
4. Greninja
5. Medicham

C-
1. Banette
2. Arcanine
3. Volbeat
4. Scyther
5. Quagsire

D
1. Butterfree
2. Chandelure
3. Haxorus
4. Serperior
5. Delphox


In all seriousness, most of the Bs I listed feel more like As... I really don't feel like explaining this entire thing...
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Last edited by Lil'twick; 05-05-2014 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:54 PM   #4
Jerichi
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I was gonna post that initially but I decided to let someone else do it. Thanks for being that person! xd
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #5
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Drapion for A

Drapion's great and has nice bulk, a good movepool, excellent typing, and his fair share of support moves. But he has the downside of, well, all his coverage is melee.

You can literally feel the lack of effort in this post, but w/e
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:03 PM   #6
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I appreciate the individuals but we really need to populate the list before we can discuss. xd
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:11 PM   #7
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I nominate Drapion for S Rank.

-It has a great offtype movepool, size and a bit of weight to work with.
-It only has a singular weakness of ground. It has aqua tail, and Ice Fang to help out somewhat.
-It has interrupting moves such as screech, roar, snarl, and to an extent whirlwind.
-It has an immunity that would of otherwise been a weakness. If a foe uses miracle eye against him, he has infinite pursuit.
-It has several boosting moves such as hone claws, swords dance, acupressure, and agility.
-Access to entry hazards.
-It has taunt, and torment. Two really useful interrupters.
-Highly Mobile arms
-Has access to more than one status. So he can either toxic, or more importantly, confuse.
-Trapping moves; rock tomb.


Cons:
-Other than a ground type pokemon, Ground offtype is very common among the top tier pokemon.
-He doesnt have that many special moves. However, what he does have access to is still very workable.


People are more than welcome to add on to this
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:11 PM   #8
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*points to the above post*

I will blacklist Drapion I swear
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:13 PM   #9
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My top five suggestions for each rank (I can add reasons later, but the way I'm reading this you're not looking for them with these initial suggestions?)

S Rank
Gengar
Snorlax
Lapras
Clefable

A Rank
Absol
Gardevoir
Ludicolo
Dragonite
Raichu

B Rank
Venusaur
Haxorus
Blastoise
Milotic
Drapion

C Rank
Venomoth
Noctowl
Aggron
Scizor
Quagsire

D Rank
Golem
Magcargo
Weavile
Tropius
Butterfree
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:14 PM   #10
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No descriptions, so just refute my opinions if you disagree:

S Rank: Absol, Snorlax, Wigglytuff, Lapras

A Rank: Dragonite, Charizard, Tyranitar, Nidoking/queen

B Rank: Gyarados, Electivire, Flygon, Gardevoir

C Rank: Pidgeot, Scizor

D Rank: Jumpluff
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:26 PM   #11
EmeraldGoblin
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A Rank
Electivire
Eeleektross
Lanturn

B Rank
Magnetzone

C Rank
Jolteon

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Old 05-05-2014, 05:31 PM   #12
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For ya'll's reference, here's a list of the 'mon I was thinking of when creating these. This is just a taste of what I was thinking.

S
Clefable
Dragonite
Snorlax

A+
Lickilicky


A
Slowking
Slowbro
Mega Aggron

A-
Ludicolo
Marowak
Starmie
Swampert
Electivire

B+
Quagsire
Magmortar

B
Roserade
Empoleon
Aggron

B-
Froslass

C+
Rhyperior

C
Scrafty
Golurk

C-
Kabutops
Altaria
Espeon
Vaporeon

D
Golem
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:32 PM   #13
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omg eg I will ban you from the TO if you don't follow the thread rules please narrow it to 5 for now and exclude NFEs
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:45 PM   #14
EmeraldGoblin
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A+
Mega Venusaur
Mega Charizard X
Flygon
Steelix

A
Mega Absol
Absol
Togekiss

A-
Venusaur

B+
Quagsire
Charizard Y
Noctowl

B
Charizard
Honchcrow

B-
Scolipede

C+
Pidgeot

C
Gigalith

C-
Jolteon
Hippowdon

D
Plusle
Minum
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:53 PM   #15
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Gliscor is B, Honchkrow is B-.
Thats all I can think of right now.

Rhyperior could be A-.

Machamp- B+

Florges- C-?

Wigglytuff/Blissey-A?

Galvantula-B Mawile-C
Aerodactyl- B-
sorry not easy to edit from crap phone

Last edited by Chalis; 05-05-2014 at 06:19 PM. Reason: CAUSE I'M A GODDAMN SPAMMER
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:54 PM   #16
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Unown for F Rank.

Make it happen Jeri. Make it official.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:19 PM   #17
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Right then... I'll just be doing the Ghosts for now and will touch on everything else a bit later. Also including Megas.

S Rank
Gengar
Mega Gengar

A Rank
A+
Dusknoir

A
Mismagius
Sableye

A-
Golurk
Mega Banette

B Rank
B+
Drifblim
Froslass

B
Jellicent
Rotom
Chandelure

B-
Banette

C Rank
C+
Aegislash

C
Trevenant

C-
Gourgeist

D Rank
D+
Spiritomb

D
Cofagrigus

D-
Shedinja
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:51 PM   #18
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S Rank
Dragonite
Clefable
Dragonite
Wigglytuff

A Rank
A+
Lickilicky
Absol
Lapras

A
Gallade
Gengar
Nidoking

A-
Gardevoir
Nidoqueen
Mismagius
Starmie

B Rank
B+
Empoleon
Marowak
Machamp
Blissey

B
Noctowl
Ludicolo
Drapion
Venusaur

B-
Kecleon
Blaziken
Blastoise
Charizard

C Rank
C+
Infernape
Steelix
Sceptile
Feraligatr
Greninja

C
Typhlosion
Tauros
Scizor
Torterra

C-
Chesnaught
Swampert
Samurott
Emboar

D Rank
D+
Delphox
Serperior
Scyther
Butterfree
Meganium
Pachirisu

Last edited by Red Panda; 05-05-2014 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:53 PM   #19
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S Rank
Dragonite
Clefable
Dragonite
Wigglytuff

A Rank
A+
Lickilicky
Absol
Lapras

A
Gallade
Gengar
Nidoking

A-
Gardevoir
Nidoqueen
Mismagius
Starmie

B Rank
B+
Empoleon
Marowak
Machamp
Blissey

B
Bictiwl Noctowl
Ludicolo
Drapion
Venusaur
Greninja

B-
Kecleon
Blaziken
Blastoise
Charizard

C Rank
C+
Infernape
Steelix
Sceptile
Feraligatr


C
Typhlosion
Tauros
Scizor
Torterra

C-
Quilladin
Swampert
Samurott
Emboar
Rotom + Formes

D Rank
D+
Delphox
Serperior
Scyther
Butterfree

D
Mothim
Vivillion

D-
Unown

Something like that?
EDIT: I just got super hard ninj'ed by Red
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:54 PM   #20
Jerichi
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Just to clarify, if something is total shit it will go unranked.

Also for now D has no + or -, but that may change if D is big enough or there are cases that are outside of this.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:56 PM   #21
Red Panda
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Roto yours is literally the same thing as mine
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:57 PM   #22
Sneaze
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Why not just include an F rank? At least that way we know what 'mon everyone considers absolute garbage and incapable of being saved, as opposed to D rank (which I personally think is plently wide enough to justify +/-, but eh) 'mon which need a good bit of work. It would also mean that people placing said unsavable 'mon in D rank won't hold as much weight when everyone and their mother places them in F rank.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:58 PM   #23
rotomotorz
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Great minds think alike. Unfortunately great minds do not post at the same speed You sneaky ninja
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:06 PM   #24
Kindrindra
大事なのは自分らしいくある事
 
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Gods Jeri, so pushy. Just gonna do darks for now because lazy. Umbreon's higher up here than most would put him but his support movepool is HUGE and I will take no argument on that front.


S Rank
Absol


A Rank
A+
Hydreigon

A
Sableye
Drapion


B Rank
B+
Skuntank
Tyranitar

B
Honchkrow
Houndoom
Crawdaunt

B-
Scrafty
Bisharp
Krookodile
Cacturn


C Rank
C+
Mandibuzz
Shiftry
Sharpedo

C
Umbreon
Liepard

D Rank
Spiritomb
Mightyena
Zoruark
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:29 PM   #25
Heather
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>Plusle/Minun as D
Believe me, get a Nasty plot or two in...

Anyway,
S:
Clefable
Hydreigon
Scolipede

A:
Noctowl
Porygon-Z
Electivire
Gengar

B:
Crobat

C:
I have nothing here

D:
Dedenne. Probably worth of going unranked, but it has to be said.
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