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Old 02-09-2014, 05:38 PM   #1
Mercutio
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Steelix Level Acquisitions Review

It's that time of whenever we feel like it! For the next two weeks, discuss level acquisitions and whether they need changing following their update last year. Bear in mind the addition of new pokémon, new moves, a new type and anything else you think is relevant. At the end of the process, we'll go away and make any changes that need making.


Spoiler: show
Abomasnow: 3
Abra: 1
Absol: 4
Accelgor: 3
Aegislash: 5
Aerodactyl: 3
Aggron: 5
Aipom: 1
Alakazam: 4
Alomomola: 1
Altaria: 4
Amaura: 1
Ambipom: 3
Amoonguss: 3
Ampharos: 4
Anorith: 1
Arbok: 3
Arcanine: 4
Archen: 1
Archeops: 3
Ariados: 2
Armaldo: 4
Aromatisse: 3
Aron: 1
Audino: 2
Aurorus: 4
Avalugg: 4
Axew: 1
Azumarill: 4
Azurill: 1
Bagon: 1
Baltoy: 1
Banette: 3
Barbaracle: 4
Barboach: 1
Basculin: 1
Bastiodon: 4
Bayleef: 2
Beartic: 4
Beautifly: 1
Beedrill: 1
Beheeyem: 3
Beldum: 1
Bellossom: 3
Bellsprout: 1
Bibarel: 3
Bidoof: 1
Binacle: 1
Bisharp: 4
Blastoise: 4
Blaziken: 4
Blissey: 4
Blitzle: 1
Boldore: 3
Bonsly: 1
Bouffalant: 2
Braixen: 2
Braviary: 3
Breloom: 3
Bronzong: 4
Bronzor: 2
Budew: 1
Buizel: 1
Bulbasaur: 1
Buneary: 1
Bunnelby: 1
Bergmite: 1
Burmy: 1
Butterfree: 1
Cacnea: 1
Cacturne: 3
Camerupt: 3
Carbink: 2
Carnivine: 2
Carracosta: 3
Carvanha: 1
Cascoon: 1
Castform: 1
Caterpie: 1
Chandelure: 4
Chansey: 2
Charizard: 4
Charmander: 1
Charmeleon: 2
Chatot: 1
Cherrim: 3
Cherubi: 1
Chespin: 1
Chesnaught: 4
Chikorita: 1
Chimchar: 1
Chimecho: 2
Chinchou: 1
Chingling: 1
Cinccino: 3
Clamperl: 1
Clauncher: 1
Clawitzer: 4
Claydol: 4
Clefable: 4
Clefairy: 2
Cleffa: 1
Cloyster: 3
Cofagrigus: 3
Combee: 1
Combusken: 2
Conkeldurr: 4
Corphish: 1
Corsola: 1
Cottonee: 1
Cradily: 4
Cranidos: 1
Crawdaunt: 3
Croagunk: 1
Crobat: 4
Croconaw: 2
Crustle: 4
Cryogonal: 3
Cubchoo: 1
Cubone: 1
Cyndaquil: 1
Darmanitan: 3
Darumaka: 1
Dedenne: 2
Deerling: 1
Deino: 1
Delcatty: 2
Delphox: 4
Delibird: 2
Dewgong: 3
Dewott: 2
Diggersby: 3
Diglett: 1
Ditto: 1
Dodrio: 3
Doduo: 1
Donphan: 3
Doublade: 3
Dragalge: 4
Dragonair: 4
Dragonite: 6
Drapion: 4
Dratini: 2
Drifblim: 3
Drifloon: 1
Drilbur: 1
Drowzee: 1
Druddigon: 3
Ducklett: 1
Dugtrio: 3
Dunsparce: 1
Duosion: 3
Durant: 3
Dusclops: 4
Dusknoir: 5
Duskull: 1
Dustox: 1
Dwebble: 1
Eelektrik: 2
Eelektross: 5
Eevee: 1
Ekans: 1
Electabuzz: 3
Electivire: 5
Electrike: 1
Electrode: 3
Elekid: 1
Elgyem: 1
Emboar: 4
Emolga: 2
Empoleon: 4
Escavalier: 3
Espeon: 3
Espurr: 1
Excadrill: 4
Exeggcute: 1
Exeggutor: 3
Exploud: 4
Farfetch'd: 1
Fearow: 2
Feebas: 1
Fennekin: 1
Feraligatr: 4
Ferroseed: 1
Ferrothorn: 4
Finneon: 1
Flaaffy: 2
Flabébé: 1
Flareon: 3
Fletchling: 1
Fletchinder: 2
Floatzel: 3
Floette: 2
Florges: 3
Flygon: 5
Foongus: 1
Forretress: 4
Fraxure: 3
Frillish: 1
Froakie: 1
Frogadier: 2
Froslass: 4
Furfrou: 2
Furret: 3
Gabite: 3
Gallade: 4
Galvantula: 3
Garbodor: 3
Garchomp: 5
Gardevoir: 4
Gastly: 1
Gastrodon: 3
Gengar: 5
Geodude: 1
Gible: 1
Gigalith: 4
Girafarig: 2
Glaceon: 3
Glalie: 4
Glameow: 1
Gligar: 1
Gliscor: 3
Gloom: 2
Gogoat: 3
Gourgeist: 4
Golbat: 3
Goldeen: 1
Golduck: 4
Golem: 4
Golett: 2
Golurk: 5
Goodra: 5
Goomy: 1
Gorebyss: 3
Gothita: 1
Gothitelle: 3
Gothorita: 2
Granbull: 4
Graveler: 3
Greninja: 4
Grimer: 1
Grotle: 2
Grovyle: 2
Growlithe: 1
Grumpig: 3
Gulpin: 1
Gurdurr: 3
Gyarados: 4
Happiny: 1
Hariyama: 3
Haunter: 3
Hawlucha: 2
Haxorus: 5
Heatmor: 2
Heliolisk: 4
Helioptile: 1
Heracross: 2
Herdier: 2
Hippopotas: 1
Hippowdon: 4
Hitmonchan: 2
Hitmonlee: 2
Hitmontop: 2
Honchkrow: 3
Honedge: 1
Hoothoot: 1
Hoppip: 1
Horsea: 1
Houndoom: 4
Houndour: 1
Huntail: 3
Hydreigon: 6
Hypno: 3
Igglybuff: 1
Illumise: 2
Infernape: 4
Inkay: 1
Ivysaur: 2
Jellicent: 4
Jigglypuff: 2
Jolteon: 3
Joltik: 1
Jumpluff: 3
Jynx: 3
Kabuto: 1
Kabutops: 3
Kadabra: 2
Kakuna: 1
Kangaskhan: 3
Karrablast: 1
Kecleon: 2
Kingdra: 6
Kingler: 3
Kirlia: 3
Klang: 2
Klefki: 2
Klink: 1
Klinklang: 3
Koffing: 1
Krabby: 1
Kricketot: 1
Kricketune: 1
Krokorok: 3
Krookodile: 4
Lairon: 3
Lampent: 3
Lanturn: 4
Lapras: 4
Larvesta: 1
Larvitar: 1
Leafeon: 3
Leavanny: 3
Ledian: 2
Ledyba: 1
Lickilicky: 5
Lickitung: 3
Liepard: 2
Lileep: 1
Lilligant: 3
Lillipup: 1
Linoone: 3
Litleo: 1
Litwick: 1
Lombre: 3
Lopunny: 3
Lotad: 1
Loudred: 2
Lucario: 4
Ludicolo: 5
Lumineon: 3
Lunatone: 2
Luvdisc: 1
Luxio: 2
Luxray: 4
Machamp: 4
Machoke: 3
Machop: 1
Magby: 1
Magcargo: 3
Magikarp: 1
Magmar: 3
Magmortar: 5
Magnemite: 1
Magneton: 3
Magnezone: 5
Makuhita: 1
Malamar: 4
Mamoswine: 5
Mandibuzz: 3
Manectric: 4
Mankey: 1
Mantine: 3
Mantyke: 1
Maractus: 1
Mareep: 1
Marill: 2
Marowak: 4
Marshtomp: 2
Masquerain: 3
Mawile: 2
Medicham: 3
Meditite: 1
Meganium: 4
Meowstic: 4
Meowth: 1
Metagross: 6
Metang: 3
Metapod: 1
Mienfoo: 1
Mienshao: 3
Mightyena: 2
Milotic: 3
Miltank: 3
Mime Jr.: 1
Minccino: 1
Minun: 1
Misdreavus: 2
Mismagius: 4
Monferno: 2
Mothim: 2
Mr. Mime: 4
Mudkip: 1
Muk: 4
Munchlax: 2
Munna: 1
Murkrow: 1
Musharna: 3
Natu: 1
Nidoking: 5
Nidoqueen: 5
Nidoran (F): 1
Nidoran (M): 1
Nidorina: 3
Nidorino: 3
Nincada: 1
Ninetales: 4
Ninjask: 2
Noibat: 1
Noivern: 4
Noctowl: 3
Nosepass: 1
Numel: 1
Nuzleaf: 2
Octillery: 4
Oddish: 1
Omanyte: 1
Omastar: 3
Onix: 2
Oshawott: 1
Pachirisu: 1
Pancham: 1
Pangoro: 4
Palpitoad: 3
Panpour: 1
Pansage: 1
Pansear: 1
Paras: 1
Parasect: 3
Patrat: 1
Pawniard: 1
Pelipper: 3
Persian: 3
Petilil: 1
Phanpy: 1
Phione: 2
Pichu: 1
Pidgeot: 3
Pidgeotto: 2
Pidgey: 1
Pidove: 1
Pignite: 2
Pikachu: 2
Piloswine: 3
Pineco: 1
Pinsir: 2
Piplup: 1
Phantump: 1
Plusle: 1
Politoed: 4
Poliwag: 1
Poliwhirl: 2
Poliwrath: 4
Ponyta: 1
Poochyena: 1
Porygon: 1
Porygon2: 3
Porygon-Z: 5
Primeape: 4
Prinplup: 2
Probopass: 3
Psyduck: 1
Pumpkaboo: 1
Pupitar: 3
Purrloin: 1
Purugly: 2
Pyroar: 3
Quagsire: 3
Quilava: 2
Qwilfish: 1
Quilladin: 2
Raichu: 4
Ralts: 1
Rampardos: 4
Rapidash: 3
Raticate: 3
Rattata: 1
Relicanth: 2
Remoraid: 1
Reuniclus: 4
Rhydon: 4
Rhyhorn: 1
Rhyperior: 6
Riolu: 1
Roggenrola: 1
Roselia: 2
Roserade: 4
Rotom: 3
Rufflet: 1
Sableye: 3
Salamence: 5
Samurott: 4
Sandile: 1
Sandshrew: 1
Sandslash: 3
Sawk: 2
Sawsbuck: 3
Scatterbug: 1
Sceptile: 4
Scizor: 4
Scolipede: 4
Scrafty: 4
Scraggy: 1
Scyther: 1
Seadra: 3
Seaking: 3
Sealeo: 3
Seedot: 1
Seel: 1
Seismitoad: 4
Sentret: 1
Serperior: 4
Servine: 2
Seviper: 2
Sewaddle: 1
Sharpedo: 3
Shedinja: 2
Shelgon: 3
Shellder: 1
Shellos: 1
Shelmet: 1
Shieldon: 1
Shiftry: 4
Shinx: 1
Shroomish: 1
Shuckle: 2
Shuppet: 1
Sigilyph: 2
Silcoon: 1
Simipour: 3
Simisage: 3
Simisear: 3
Skarmory: 3
Skiddo: 1
Skiploom: 2
Skitty: 1
Skorupi: 1
Skrelp: 1
Skuntank: 3
Slaking: 4
Slakoth: 1
Sliggoo: 3
Slowbro: 4
Slowking: 4
Slowpoke: 1
Slugma: 1
Slurpuff: 3
Smeargle: 1
Smoochum: 1
Sneasel: 2
Snivy: 1
Snorlax: 6
Snorunt: 1
Snover: 1
Snubbull: 1
Solosis: 1
Solrock: 2
Spearow: 1
Spewpa: 1
Spheal: 1
Spinarak: 1
Spinda: 1
Spiritomb: 2
Spoink: 1
Spritzee: 1
Squirtle: 1
Stantler: 2
Staraptor: 3
Staravia: 2
Starly: 1
Starmie: 4
Staryu: 1
Steelix: 4
Stoutland: 3
Stunfisk: 2
Stunky: 1
Sudowoodo: 2
Sunflora: 3
Sunkern: 1
Surskit: 1
Swablu: 1
Swadloon: 2
Swalot: 3
Swampert: 4
Swanna: 3
Swellow: 3
Swinub: 1
Swirlix: 1
Swoobat: 3
Sylveon: 3
Taillow: 1
Talonflame: 3
Tangela: 1
Tangrowth: 4
Tauros: 3
Teddiursa: 1
Tentacool: 1
Tentacruel: 4
Tepig: 1
Throh: 2
Timburr: 1
Tirtouga: 1
Togekiss: 4
Togepi: 1
Togetic: 3
Torchic: 1
Torkoal: 2
Torterra: 4
Totodile: 1
Toxicroak: 4
Tranquill: 2
Trapinch: 1
Treecko: 1
Trevenant: 4
Tropius: 3
Trubbish: 1
Turtwig: 1
Tympole: 1
Tynamo: 1
Typhlosion: 4
Tyranitar: 5
Tyrantrum: 4
Tyrogue: 1
Tyrunt: 1
Umbreon: 3
Unfezant: 3
Unown: 1
Ursaring: 4
Vanillish: 2
Vanillite: 1
Vanilluxe: 3
Vaporeon: 3
Venipede: 1
Venomoth: 3
Venonat: 1
Venusaur: 4
Vespiquen: 3
Vibrava: 3
Victreebel: 3
Vigoroth: 2
Vileplume: 3
Vivillion: 2
Volbeat: 2
Volcarona: 4
Voltorb: 1
Vullaby: 1
Vulpix: 1
Wailmer: 1
Wailord: 4
Walrein: 4
Wartortle: 2
Watchog: 2
Weavile: 3
Weedle: 1
Weepinbell: 2
Weezing: 4
Whimsicott: 3
Whirlipede: 2
Whiscash: 3
Whismur: 1
Wigglytuff: 4
Wingull: 1
Wobbuffet: 2
Woobat: 1
Wooper: 1
Wormadam: 2
Wurmple: 1
Wynaut: 1
Xatu: 3
Yamask: 1
Yanma: 1
Yanmega: 3
Zangoose: 2
Zebstrika: 3
Zigzagoon: 1
Zoroark: 3
Zorua: 1
Zubat : 1
Zweilous: 3
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:46 PM   #2
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Alright, first of all: Drapion TL5. It's quite possibly the best Poison type outside of Gengar, with an amazing typing that only got better in Gen VI. I can now reliably attack Steel types with a neutral stab while only having one weakness, which while common is also seen in other powerful Pokemon.

Metagross to TL 5, its quite a bit worse with the steel nerf.

Gourgeist TL 3: It's not as good as the other Ghost types, and while it has Fire type attacks and ToT, its also kinda small, and if its goes super big it takes a cut to its speed which really doesn't help.

inb4"No,no,no."
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:49 PM   #3
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Alright, I suppose I'll be the first to bring it up.

>Metang: 3

Metang got hit hard by the type effectiveness change that came to Steel in Gen VI. Thanks to now having two additional weaknesses on top of the two it already had, a LOT more Pokemon available at lover levels are capable of dealing with it again, and while I'm sure it would only return to being something that shows up fairly regularly, but with its only new move being Power-Up Punch, it hasn't really gained any threat behind it, save to the Fairy 'mon that are about to be running rampant. I personally think it should be move back down to level 2.

More 'mon to come later when I have a better look at the list.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:50 PM   #4
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Hi.

Still think Gyarados should be TL3 over TL4. Also glancing at the list the Nidos seem too high as well. Perhaps go back to how they were before, Rino/a TL2, King/Queen TL4?

EDIT: Oh Serperior is a pretty shit TL4 as well.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:12 PM   #5
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Armaldo and Cradily: TL4 -> TL3 largely due to fall in line with Kabutops, Omastar, Archeops, and Carracosta. Neither are quite to the level of Rampardos or Tyrantrum, which deserve their higher levels.

Glalie: TL4 -> TL3. There's very little going for Froslass's big brother. He can levitate, and he's got a bit of mass, but he's limbless and has a pretty shallow movepool. I think TL4 is a bit high for him, and although I understand Glalie and Frosslass were put at the same level for the sake of consistency, but, seriously, Glalie isn't TL4-good.

Jynx: TL3 -> TL4. Jynx, however, I do think is TL4-good. An excellent movepool, both for coverage and support, Humanshape, and Gen I. This bitch is good, even if her looks suggest otherwise.

Affirming my support to Metang being TL2, Gyarados being TL3, and (consistency be damned) Serperior to TL3
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:14 PM   #6
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> Glalie and Froslass different levels

LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF INTERNAL CONSISTENCY LALALA

*eye twitch*
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:15 PM   #7
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You are correct in all things, oh great and powerful LOs.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:17 PM   #8
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>you

Ha.

Mawile TL3, Gardevoir/Gallade TL5. S'all I've got.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:17 PM   #9
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You are correct in all things, oh great and powerful LOs.
Why thank you, Kairne.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:17 PM   #10
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General "you", not specific "you"
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:19 PM   #11
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Elaborate on the Steel/Psychic thing, though. Do we all think they're significantly weaker now?
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:20 PM   #12
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Well, there is the weakness to moves like Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse, which are kinda everywhere. Not to mention a weakness to Sucker Punch, which is hella good when used right, especially since Metagross likes to get physical.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:21 PM   #13
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Metang still has way more advantages than disadvantages but part of its appeal was a firm defense backing up a crazed offense. I wouldn't be against the drop but I'm not gunning for it.

And sorry, as long as Meganium is TL4, Serperior will be too.

>Armaldo/Cradily

Yes.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:22 PM   #14
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And sorry, as long as Meganium is TL4, Serperior will be too.
Then drop both?
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:24 PM   #15
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Serperior is all kinds of terrible though. Outside of general serpent stuff, its has nothing over the other Grass starters. Some dragon moves? Eh. Venusaur gets Outrage.

EDIT: Why not both!?
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:24 PM   #16
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Serperior is really not that bad. Also, someone seems to be forgetting about the INTERNAL CONSISTENCY ALARM!!!
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:26 PM   #17
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Very little reason to pick it or Meganium up at TL4 over a Sceptile or Venusaur. Even at TL3 there are some more compelling Grass types.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:27 PM   #18
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Sorry all 3rd stage starters are TL4.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:28 PM   #19
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Oh. I thought we were actually doing some balancing with these adjustments. Nevermind then.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:29 PM   #20
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So anyway, initial thoughts:

I was gunning for Gardevoir/Gallade to go up and have wavered a bit but still probanly want to see them at TL5. Mawilewants putting to TL3. Vespiquen is shite so should be TL1, as should be Vivilion (or we make Butterfreeet al TL2 but mehhh). Bouffalant wants to be TL3 as do a few other Normal types.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:30 PM   #21
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I think I brought up before how silly Bouffalant was at TL2. It's a shitty Tauros but at TL 2 even a shitty Tauros is terrifying.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:31 PM   #22
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Oh. I thought we were actually doing some balancing with these adjustments. Nevermind then.
We are but we're more inclined to make those guys stronger than have irritating lapses in symmetry. Also Meganium is pretty good, Serpeior is admittedly not particularly so.

I'm hesitant to pull Grasses down because a) we already did that and b) they're getting steroids when we finally finish the SC redux.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:40 PM   #23
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As 'Cept and I were discussing a bit earlier, Pyroar might want to be TL2. He's got a nice enough bulk to warrant TL3, but no real movepool to back it up. I feel he kinda floats uncomfortably between the two, though, so don't really expect bitching and moaning if you keep him as is.

Castform might want bumped up to 2. If Audino is versatile enough to be put there, Castform definitely is. It's inorganic, can change type, and has a fairly nice movepool.

Cherrim might need bumped down from 3 to 2. For reasons of "Oh god this thing is so bad."

Speaking of the internal consistency alarm, ...why are the Gen I and V fossils level 3 but all other fossils level 4? Ignoring that that's not consistent for fossils, one of the best ones being lower level is just wat.

I feel Spinda should be level 2 thanks to its frankly huge movepool. No other Normal at level 1 is really that bad.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:45 PM   #24
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:48 PM   #25
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>Pyroar

I was admittedly unimpressed by Pyroar when I first saw his moveset. I could see how he would work at TL2 but I still think he fits TL3 better.

>Castform

The biggest weakness I see in Castform is that its gimmick is easily exploitable, neutering it significantly. I've used it in a TL1 battle way back in the day, and I found that it wasn't anywhere near as effective as any other Normal.

>Cherrim

Yeah it could stand to be at TL2, for reasons similar to Castform.

>Fossils

Honestly I wouldn't be against lowering Fossils across the board. Nearly all of them have absolutely horrible defensive types, save for Cradily, whose movepool is inarguably the worst among them. Even the one with the best typing, Tyrantum, is still exploitable.

>Spinda

I have used Spinda. I can tell you that Spinda is not good. I would be more for lowering Audino (since Audino doesn't even begin to compare to the other Pinks) than raising spinda.
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