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Old 12-09-2012, 06:19 PM   #1
Jerichi
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Scraggy Of Sigs and Type Changes

Okay next order of business.

Every time I do sigs, I get at least one post in the TO that complains about me approving or rejecting a certain sig. It's getting to the point where I kind of dread doing sigs because I know I'll get someone griping about a type change or other controversial sig and then showing me some sig I approved or rejected in the past that's similar.

(Sorta tangential but I'd like to point out the fact that I am not a sig-approving computer and there are some bad sigs that slip past me or I change my mind about certain sigs, so as consistent as I try to be, you will not get the same results all the time.)

So, to try to resolve this, I'd like everyone to go on the record about a few types of sigs so I can gauge opinion about said sigs and adjust my approvals accordingly.

I'd like to hear your opinions on:

Type Changes
Sub-questions:
Should particular types be banned?
Should we have a list of generic type changes (i.e. Bug/Water Masque)?
Should we ban Dragon/Anything?

Dropping Types

Type Familiarity

Multi-Type Sigs

Boost X thing by X%

Weakness/Resistance/Immunity Altering Sigs

Also somewhat related though it really does speak of a bigger issue in the ASB

Stealth Rock Sigs

and

Baton Pass Sigs

I might think of more later but for now I'd like to hear from just about everyone on this.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:25 PM   #2
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:30 PM   #3
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I'm out of touch as fuck but I'll throw my opinions into this.

>Should particular types be banned?
Ghost, Dragon (*), Psychic (*), Dark, Flying, Normal, Steel. Probably some others too.

>Should we have a list of generic type changes (i.e. Bug/Water Masque)?
Yes. See the *'d above. Something like Charizard/Gyarados should be able to be changed and available. I think the same applies to Golduck. There are probably a few other cases of this.

>Should we ban Dragon/Anything?
Yes. They should all be banned except for the few in the group above. Make it so only a few Pokemon can become dragon and its available to everyone.


>Dropping Types
In the days of yore this was not allowed, and I think it should still not be allowed.


>Type Familiarity
No. You pretty much become a new type without the drawbacks.


>Multi-Type Sigs
What do you mean? Like offensive attack sigs with multiple types? I'm ok with this. Normal sig rules apply. If you make it strong, have drawbacks. As much shit as my Bullfango sig used to get, it has 2 paragraphs of drawbacks. Good drawbacks. That's how you sig it up, bitches.


>Boost X thing by X%
I guess I'm out of the loop here cause idk what you mean. Like.. boost biting moves by 25%? That's ok with me.


>Weakness/Resistance/Immunity Altering Sigs
No.


>Stealth Rock Sigs and Baton Pass Sigs
A sign of stuff getting too strong is having sigs just for that purpose. It's like having a Thief or Aerial Ace sig back in the day. No to these and those two should probably be nerfed.

(cue incoming hate train) Even though I'm not really active so much anymore, I have game balancing skillz in my DNA. I think what I propose is fair. I'm certainly not personally invested in any of my answers what with me being so inactive. Haha.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:34 PM   #4
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I think you need to ban 'it is considered fully evovled' as a thing.

I think that's just so ridiculous. And it makes no sense. If it was fully evolved, it would be evolved. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I have no real opinion on anything else sig related to be honest though.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:47 PM   #5
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Personally I think the only type change that should be completely and totally banned is Ghost, with any type change highly dependent on what the pokemon in question is (like what Kuno said about Dragon).

For the 'It is considered fully evolved', I think it makes sense in some cases, but it REALLY needs to be used less often. It really doesn't make sense in the vast majority of cases- I think it works in scenarios where it's basically a different evolutionary turn (Megakarp, for example), but in the majority of cases it's just ridiculous.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:53 PM   #6
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The hate for Dark typechanges can just be remedied by saying that the Pokemon does not have an immunity to Psychic. Seriously. That is its only advantage over the Ghost type.

Banned Type Changes:
Steel is the only one I can think of. Dragon should only be used in very certain cases...and not for fairy worms. (Sorry Emp. ;;)

Generic Type Changes:
I am all for this...but at the same time it might reduce the amount of variety of sigs.

Dragon Type Changes:
No, we shouldn't.

Dropping Types:
Sorry Kuno, but the whole, "we didn't have it so no" is bad thinking. My grandparents did not have computers...so I can't have one? Bad. This should be treated like any other typechange sig.

Type Familiarity:
Given the new TE scales, this is completely fine, even better than before. There is no credence to Kuno's argument when we run 1.5x/ 2.5x or some variation.

Multi-Type Sigs:
No Secret *shot*

With some drawbacks...yeah.

Boosting Sigs:
As long as it is balanced, yeah.

Weakness/Resistence/ Immunity Sigs:
Immunities are plain no.
The weakness thing should be interchanged with a resistance, so, a x2 weakness with one resistance, a 4x weakness with two resistances.

Stealth Rock and Baton Pass:

They kinda check each other. Stealth Rock is not too bad nowadays because of the TE scale.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:02 PM   #7
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Trying to get us to do your job, eh Jeri? You sly dog.

I'm not really in PASBL anymore, but I feel like contributing more to this thread than just a dumb joke, so feel free to ignore the following.

Type Changes:

Let me start by saying that any sig that changes the primary type of the 'mon should be auto rejected. It's the main type of the Pokemon and, generally, what the Pokemon is all about. Secondary types are much more feasible to be changed (such as Tyranitar can be Rock/something else and Poliwrath can be Water/something else). Of course, somebody will probably bring up a weird 'mon with typings that should be switched, but you get the idea.

1. Should particular types be banned?

Current list of banned type changes seems ok to me (everything with an immunity + Dragon I think).

2. Should we have a list of generic type changes (i.e. Bug/Water Masque)?

What purpose would this serve?

3. Should we ban Dragon/Anything?

One could make a case for a few Pokemon (Charizard and Gyarados come to mind), but I personally say "no" to all Dragon type changes. Want a ton of extra immunities plus unlimited energy of a type that's unresisted by 16 of the 17 types? Win Muyo's badge first.

Dropping Types:

Depends on the drawbacks (like any other sig), but I think they should be allowed. Only for secondary types, though.

Type Familiarity:

Should be allowed depending on the number of moves the Pokemon in question has of the type in question. Of course, if you're looking to add more moves of a certain type, I think there should be a hard limit on the amount of extra energy (something like an extra half Hyper Beam or something).

Multi-Type Sigs:

Never really seen an issue with these, nor have I heard of some sort of altercation arising from one of these. I'm for 'em with reasonable drawback.

Boost X thing by Y%:

Fine by me with, again, reasonable drawback.

Weakness/Resistance/Immunity Altering Sigs:

I don't think immunities should be allowed through sigs only. Weakness and resistance altering is fine with reasonable drawback. Which means no more of the 4x -> 3x for free nonsense, especially since nobody refs 4x damage anymore.

Stealth Rock and Baton Pass Sigs:

What are the issues with Stealth Rock sigs? It never really seemed like a problem to me, but if it is, maybe require higher energy/lower damage stipulations or something.

For the case of Baton Pass-like sigs, I think they're fine given the newer switching roles.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:08 PM   #8
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@Blaze:
Eh, I don't see why you put so much importance in steel when it's just, well, Steel. If the pokemon in question is already mineral in some way, I think it could be justified, depending on the case. Ghost, on the other hand, is, like, being in the afterlife. You can't really just sig that. :/
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:16 PM   #9
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Sunflora

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Ohnowaitimlying. I actually think you're pretty well as good as you can be at this job, Jeri. Keep up the good work!

Now, actual response spoilered for length. Forgive me if I don't go in to detail, I have to do this shit every day. You write enough reports about pension policy, you stop wanting to talk about pokémon in detail. ALso I cba to structure this properly so it won't read well but OH WELL!

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Type changes

I am slightly on the fence about these. The basic question is this: how much variety do we want the league to have? Do we want the league to be a place where you can have utterly ridiculous things like Water/Fire Octillary running around and Sableye throwing out moon lasers that deal 2 HB damage or do we want it to be a place where the pokémon from the games/animé are battled with and are very slightly tweaked in some way. I think the latter would actually be better, in which case, pretty much every type change should be banned. Things like Water/Bug Masq., making Rock/Ground types pure Rock and making things with incredibly obvious characteristics such as Flygon part Bug should be allowed if given extremely god justification, but all of that should be at a push.

But if you like crazy, there probably shouldn't be anything that's banned. Heavy restriction, sure. I mean, there is no reason at all that types such as Ghost or Dark should be banned. They're good types, sure, but if you make it known that Dark changes only happen if you're not gaining Psychic immunity there's no reason not to have it. Same with Ground to Electric. With Ghost, just make it known that being a Ghost type does not give you ghost powers and there is literally no reason not to allow the changes. Minus ghost magic, Ghost is a middle rank type. Since we inexplicably don't give any post Gen III Ghosts proper ghost powers anyway, this isn't actually a leap from the norm.

I think a list of generic changes is a good idea. The things I mention in the first paragraph, maybe things like pure Steel Aggron, Bug/Electric Volbeat blah blah. It's not something that needs a hard and fast list; just a set of something like 10 examples that people can follow.

Examples of changes that should be heavily restricted are probably Steel and Dragon. In certain combinations, these are great. Water/Dragon, Bug/Steel spring to mind as being changes we probably shouldn't allow. But neither should be outright banned. Thing about a Grass/Dragon Sceptile for a second. Offensively, this is clearly fantastic, as Dragon coverage is stellar. But defensively? A quick check of this type calculator reveals that it's actually not that bad. A few very good resistances, but many weaknesses. Try Steel; why shouldn't one be allowed to have a hypothetical Steel/Flying Dodrio? Dragon and a few types isn't that bad, really. Dragon/Ghost, Dragon/Fire, Dragon/Normal; these are three examples of Dragon not really synergising with the type in question. No real reason they should be banned as a concept (though obviously thinking of examples is less easy).

Obvious can of worms there is primary type changes. I frankly think that this is a non issue. The only thing a primary type is used for is... nothing. It means nothing. If a pokémon is dual typed, one has to go at the top. They're computer games. Bug/Dragon Flygon, Water/Bug Masq., Fighting/Flying Staraptor. All make perfect sense. Better sense, in fact, than the alternative.

Type dropping

Obviously, as above. Certain things make sense. Geodude is the archetype, but what about dropping that Poison type from every Gen I Grass type? Sneasel pure Dark (or pure Ice). How about making Dodrio pure Normal (or literally any Normal/Flying type pure Flying)? It's the same as adding a type. We should simply make clear that if you drop type, you gain familiarity and nothing better than that.

Type familiarity

Kuno is right. We must ensure that familiarity is not like having a type. I say that we adopt the following scale, with slight variance allowed (and by slight I mean by like one or two minors either way).

Standard pokémon, non familiar type: 1-1.5 HB of given type (OGT). Normal types: 1-1.2 HB OGT.
Standard pokémon, familiar type: 2-2.5 HB OGT. Normal types: 1.5-2 HB OGT.
Waters with Ice, Rocks with Ground etc etc: 1.5-2 HB OGT.

One shoudl remember that the problem with type energy is not actually the amount of type energy; it's the fact that we only give pokémon 4 HB of health. It's not enough.

On what should be allowed familiarity, I think the same level of justification as type changes should be needed but less drawbacks. I think that my Clefable is an example of too much drawback being imposed.

Multi type sigs (not quite sure what you mean)

Assuming you mean things like ID style attacks that are made of two types, I see no problem with these. As long as people know how to ref Tri Attack, there's no risk.

Assuming you mean "this sig can be either Rock typed or Flying typed or Fire typed....", well. There should be a limit. Clearly my Lickilicky is an example of something that needs limiting, but only because it's an entry hazard (and you people are all whiny little bitches).

Boost X by Y.

These are fine. However, three things need to happen.

1) Make it known that you can only go up to a given number in either direction. Say 20%. A little leeway is appropriate, so maybe my Weavile can have 20% extra damage to all claw attacks for 10% extra energy and 10% less special attack, or whatever. There just needs to be a fairly low cap.
2) Go through the SCs and change any existing retarded ones (Pidgeot springs to mind) to appropriate. Absolute maximum of 20% boost and only when things are utterly terrible.
3) Go through the SCs and give these boosts to things that should clearly have them. Why does Excadrill not have a boost to digging? Why does Alakazam not have a 10% boost to Psychic typed offensive moves? etc etc.

I mean, just some discretion. Clearly one should be able to sig a Geodude to have 20% extra special defence. Clearly one should not be able to sig a Geodude with 20% extra effectiveness with special attacks.

W/R/I

Standardise it. If you want to drop a 2x weakness, you must drop a 2x resistance or add a new weakness. Want to lose a 4x weakness? Lose a 4x resistance or create a new weakness. Honestly, if people were more inclined to create these types of sigs, we'd have less problems with type changes. While it's true that changing types often gives you offensive options i.e. giving a Charizard the Dragon type clearly makes it better at attacking certain pokémon, if we're honest the main reason people do changes is because of defence. If one could drop two weaknesses from a Grass type, they'd be a lot more common. Same with Rocks and Ices. I think, for example, that giving Vaniluxe or whatever it's called a 2x resistance to, say, Electric and Psychic moves, would be perfectly balanced, because that pokémon is an abomination.

Immunities are the exception, and should probably only be allowed in extreme cases i.e. Magikarp immune to Electric and Grass moves? Yeah sure why not (you drug addict).

SR/BP

Bearing in mind that many people are using less potent type scales now, I don't see entry hazards as a problem. Most are moderate in power. Moderate x1.5 is nothing. Moderate x2 is not a lot. If people choose to make/accept 6 v 6 battles, that's part of the package. I think that entry hazard proliferation is good because it forces people to think harder. That's good. People should have to think about this. Bear in mind that Rapid Spin is now universal and kills all entry hazards. People should just start making sigs that do this. I'm planning a Sketch Unown with Rapid Spin for this reason. People should take a leaf out of my book; I have a pokémon that can use a multi type entry hazard, a pokémon with a doubled power Stealth Rock and two pokémon with non damaging entry hazards that cause disruption. Especially in this last case, I think that these are extremely good things for us to add to the league. And not just with entry hazards. Think about it; matches would probably not take only three or four rounds to see a KO if people were actually able to debuff their opponents attack stats or accuracy reliably. I mean, when do you ever see anyone lowering the opponent's defence or attack? Rarely. Bring that in.

On switching moves, I don't see them as a problem. The switching rules mostly work fine, with the exception that everyone ignores the one about one switch per round. I think that we should probably make it so that only Baton Pass and other non damaging ones can transfer stats; U-Turn should not be transferring Swords Dance; it deals damage. We should also make sure to clarify things like Mean Look and Pursuit; state clearly that their effects do work on pokémon using switching moves. We could also add in another optional rule; you can have Return= KO, Return=OK or Return=NO, in which no switching moves will be used. Boom, done.

Finally:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkoal Stu View Post
I think you need to ban 'it is considered fully evovled' as a thing.

I think that's just so ridiculous. And it makes no sense. If it was fully evolved, it would be evolved. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I have no real opinion on anything else sig related to be honest though.
Seriously, ban the fuck out of these sigs. They are awful. They should be banned in all cases excepting where the pokémon is obviously and really utterly useless. And I'm talking Magikarp, Caterpie, Weedle and that's about it. Fucking Dragonair with 'I count as fully evolved'. It's bollocks. You want a fully evolved pokémon? Fucking get one.

/rant


TL;dr Very little should be banned. Most of our problems come from people wanting to make pokémon defensively viable and from the fact that 4 HB health is no longer enough. If you make it easier for people to remove weaknesses and change the whole league to something like 6/8 or 6/9, most of the sig problems will be lessened.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:23 PM   #10
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And while we're on sigs, can we just go ahead and change Sketch/Smeargle? I mean seriously, when every bloody Smeargle out there is a case of "this Smeargle has double the normal Sketch moves" you've done it wrong. Bring it from 10 up to 15 and then stop people from altering that by much.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:32 PM   #11
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> And while we're on sigs, can we just go ahead and change Sketch/Smeargle? I mean seriously, when every bloody Smeargle out there is a case of "this Smeargle has double the normal Sketch moves" you've done it wrong. Bring it from 10 up to 15 and then stop people from altering that by much.

This has been on my mind for a while now actually. I'll talk to Nick about this next time I catch him because he's always been a bit wary about Smeargle things.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:37 PM   #12
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Sorry Kuno, but the whole, "we didn't have it so no" is bad thinking. My grandparents did not have computers...so I can't have one? Bad. This should be treated like any other typechange sig.
That is.. a horrible comparison. The reason we didn't have them back then was because they fundamentally changed a Pokemon. If you want a Pokemon without that pesky second typing then get a different Pokemon.

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There is no credence to Kuno's argument when we run 1.5x/ 2.5x or some variation.
Except for the fact you get a) type energy b) sometimes some new moves too? Aren't both of those what pretty much make up having a new type? Oh wait, those pesky "weaknesses" are all gone. Totally different.


Other stuff:

>Considered fully evolved

There should never be a case where this is a thing. Yanma used to be fully evolved. Now it's not. Chansey used to be fully evolved. Now it's a tier 2 (out of 3) evo. Unless your sig has a way to alter reality and get rid of Pokemon from existence, this should never be a thing.


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I mean seriously, when every bloody Smeargle out there is a case of "this Smeargle has double the normal Sketch moves"
It's fine as is. Smeargle is so fucking broken, dedicating it's sig to make it useful somewhat is what makes it unique. Or else the crazy broken sigs start rolling in. So I agree with Muyo about not changing this.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:41 PM   #13
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I enjoy it when you're right, Kuno. You're so good at it.

On Sketch, I don't know. Bear in mind that Smeargle is Normal and thus ultra nerfed by many refs. It's hard to think of a set of ten moves that is broken.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:00 PM   #14
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I enjoy it when you're right, Kuno. You're so good at it.
Me ams good with words.

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On Sketch, I don't know. Bear in mind that Smeargle is Normal and thus ultra nerfed by many refs. It's hard to think of a set of ten moves that is broken.
While true, fixing its "limited moves" problem will make everyone give it more type energy or a second type or something else crazy. Right now you really have to pick where you want your Smeargle to excel. You can give it lots of moves to be a jack of all trades, or you can give it something special to focus on. By changing sketch, it'll be a jack of all trades no matter what WITH some other bonus thrown on top. With the ability to get any move you can get some crazy broken shit. Trust me, my smeargle is a fucking boss. I'm an expert at this.


I also had an idea about not allowing fire type changes? Or if they were allowed they'd have to have an open flame? But I'm not too sold on this yet. Although I'm still not sure how a Pokemon can become a fire type anyway. Just seems weird. Not sure how to feel about this yet. Sig type changes are definitely a "case by case" basis, where not every Pokemon can get every secondary typing available. Probably 95% of the Pokemon wouldn't be able to get a passed fire type change anyway.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:07 PM   #15
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>Although I'm still not sure how a Pokemon can become a fire type anyway.

Dunk it in lava until it ignites.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:41 PM   #16
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How about nothing is banned, all type changes are allowed unless they would be OP.

Which basically means all these types are banned in theory but not in practice. I'm sure there's a reason blaze isn't doing the sigs. Jeri is. I have enough faith in his common sense to know he won't approve a Dragon/Water Dragonite.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:03 PM   #17
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Well, we all probably know where I stand on type change sigs. I'm practically infamous for them round here, although most generic ones I have tried to avoid (Masquerain aside, because GT Defenses). I've always felt that, given enough justification, drawback, and creativity, many Pokemon of any number of types can have type changes, aside from glaring contradictions such as Grass/Fire (aside from Sunflora, come on), Water/Fire, et cetera; or lack of certain attributes, such as Pokemon who aren't birds or cannot fly getting a Flying typechange or mammalian Pokemon and Bug. That of course doesn't mean you should just RNG a Pokemon and a random type; it has to make some sense, but I've always seen it as a way to really add personality to your Pokemon and make it unique. I don't want the same Pokemon as everyone else, I want a Pokemon that you know on sight is mine. I want a Pokemon that reflects me. And honestly, I think that's part of what ASB is all about: individuality. A lot of people will say typechange sigs are unimaginative and lazy ways of customising a Pokemon, but take it from someone who has done many a type change, it's hard work. I mean, it may look easy on the outside from the speed at which I crank out sigs, but I put a lot of thought and heart into them. Obviously, I've had some terrible ideas for them before, but everyone's had horrible sig ideas. And, to me, ASB is about being able to unleash your unbridled creativity. Think about when you first read the sig moves section on the pasbl site. When I first read it, I was in awe. It was like a magickal place where you can be crazy, but make it work. Where the innovative and completely random can shine, and anyone can become a hero. Luvdisc can fight against a huge, powerful beast like Kingdra, and maybe even win. A place where almost any Pokemon can be competitively viable, if you're creative enough and learn how to use it. Why else would I use Pokemon like Gothitelle, Metapod, and Dewott when there are much "better" options in competitive viability? I love doing my own thing, going in a completely different direction than what is expected or what would be considered the smart course. Look at what we've had in ASB, just in recent memory: King Koi, Doomsparce, NINCADA. If that's not one of the great things about ASB, I don't know what is.

On specifics, I can only completely see Ghost as cover-all banned. As well, Steel, Dark, Psychic, Flying and Dragon should be regulated harshly but not a cover-all ban. There are some, if very few, Pokemon who are very plausible for each, but as it stands, it's almost impossible to get these approved no matter how good the justification and balanced the drawback, quite frankly, due to copious bitchwhine from concentrated sources. As well, in most cases, I see primary type changes a bad thing. However, with any Pokemon carrying the Normal type but plausible for another, I don't see the harm in allowing them to shed the Normal type, since it literally adds nothing except a Fighting weakness. Additionally, some of the fossils may be plausible for a shedding of the Rock type, because, for example, Kabuto looks fairly Bug-like, and Bastiodon's defensive nature is just crippled by that Rock typing that cannot be shed due to being his primary type.

I'd write more, but I'm a bit worn from the day, so.
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:49 AM   #18
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I'll probably have more to say when I'm sober and have slept, but I think with Dragons there's a line between lolbroken Dragonair typechanges and say my Dragon/Fighting Druddigon.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:26 AM   #19
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That is.. a horrible comparison. The reason we didn't have them back then was because they fundamentally changed a Pokemon. If you want a Pokemon without that pesky second typing then get a different Pokemon.
See also: the argument for banning type changes in general.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:29 AM   #20
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Yes but that argument is basically "BOOO CHANGE I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!"
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:42 AM   #21
Concept
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Not really. My main distaste for them is how silly they are. Also the lack of anime justification (which kinda exists for the other common varieties of sig). Type changes are basically fakemon.

Am amused at the suggestion I don't like change given how vocal I've been on changing a wide range of things over the past few years. Kush and I are like the people that applies to least.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:50 AM   #22
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Sigs in general are just too OP nowadays.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:53 AM   #23
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There hasn't been any anime evidence for multitype Hidden Power, either.

But in all seriousness, I don't see the huge problem with type changes. They're a nice addition, they're pretty cool, and when handled correctly they're perfectly balanced. Though sometimes a bit under-powered, tbh.

Also, how Kush?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:53 AM   #24
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If typechange sigs or any other kind of sig gets banned, it isn't going to go retro is it? It is not going to go back?
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:27 AM   #25
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Dropping to to defend type changes/drops with a slightly heavy heart as I do think some people take the piss a bit. But principally, it's now bloody hard to use a 4x weak Pokémon, particularly one with a common weakness. Move Tutors and new TMs in later generations have thrown around moves like confetti: in Gen I or II, if something had access to a couple of off-own type moves it was really good. Nowadays, it's a surprise if any random Pokémon doesn't have Signal Beam (sorry Exeggutor) and there is a lot more distribution of types generally. It's not universal- Fire is still fairly well restricted so Scizor is usable, but it is clearly an issue.

I accept it's a tricky issue, but to take my Rhydon as an example, a pure Ground Rhydon is very good, I wouldn't say broken but very good, whereas one that takes 4x damage from Water and Grass is barely usable, particularly in a situation where my opponent can always switch.

Generally though, isn't sigs/type changes rather rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic? The League is dead as hell. The last application to be a new ref was several months back and the queue is backed up like nobody's business.
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