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Old 03-26-2017, 01:23 AM   #3701
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IDK man, they say TrumpCare a lot.

I'm not arguing that it should be called one thing or another. I'm just telling you what it is being called at this time from what I've seen, lol.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:24 AM   #3702
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>Also, important note: Republicans are defunding orgs like Planned Parenthood and Medicare precisely BECAUSE they want the ordinary people to put their time and money into those orgs. They don't want to use tax dollars for that. When you volunteer your resources to PP or LGBT-friendly shelters, you are doing what the Republicans believe is right - supporting causes you personally believe in and leaving the government out of it.

I'm sorry but you're delusional if you think that defunding these organizations isn't fundie-pandering. If a Republican actually came out and said that I'd be willing to consider it as an (unlikely) possibility but if this was actualy the case and they publically stated it, they'd receive uproar from their base.

>I'm far more interested in his tax plans - as I understand it, he plans to kill loopholes and institute a flat tax above certain brackets. I can definitely see this going through even a Republican-controlled Congress as it removes the tax burden on the poor and places it on the mantle of the rich and on multinationals (he plans to kill this, too).

Can you source this? At first glance this sounds a hell of a lot like the exact opposite of the Republican tax policy for the past 20 years.

Also super quick on "Republicare" (a term I have literally never heard prior to now) vs. Trumpcare.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:42 AM   #3703
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The entire purpose of the government collecting tax is to use it for useful things that should be available around the entire country...like the military...or roads...or education...or utilities...or medical health...or family planning...or the goddamn EPA...

Defunding the last few is completely bullshit, and you can't hide behind "But people can just donate to that." Let's just completely stop having taxes, see how many people donate to the military. Free market, right?

The Republicans are never going to pass any tax plan that hurts the rich. They'd lose half their votes instantly. The strategy of "Lie and claim you're going to reduce middle class taxes and tax the rich, then do the exact opposite" seems to be working fine because everyone believes them, so why bother changing?

Really, though, I wonder how many Republicans would be having heart attacks if Obama acted like Trump. They went apeshit over Obama's golf trips, yet Trump's going something like ten times his rate. Not to mention the millions of tax dollars wasted every week guarding Trump Towers.

Also, there hasn't been a single day that the Trump administration hasn't said a pants-on-fire level of lie to the public. Not a single bloody day. Trump lied on Twitter about a hearing which was about him lying on Twitter. Which then was called out in real time during that hearing.

All this while Trump spreads xenophobia through the country and fails at implementing healthcare and tries to get bullshit Muslim Bans passed, and tourism rates plummet, and the climate change clock just keeps ticking.
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:04 PM   #3704
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Quote:
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Remember that it's billed as Republicare rather than Trumpcare.
It's nicknamed after whoever the person writing about it wants to assign blame to (e.g. Breitbart using "Ryancare" because they have a raging hateboner for him).

Quote:
I really don't think this is something that he personally cares about very much, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was basically just given something the Republicans care about and told to care about it.
Too bad he made a major campaign plank out of how Obamacare was a disaster and how it was going to be replaced with a much better plan with blackjack! And hookers!

You know what, forget the health care!

Quote:
I'm far more interested in his tax plans - as I understand it, he plans to kill loopholes and institute a flat tax above certain brackets. I can definitely see this going through even a Republican-controlled Congress as it removes the tax burden on the poor and places it on the mantle of the rich and on multinationals (he plans to kill this, too).
1. Donald Trump campaigned on a health care plan that was...well, never actually fleshed out in his own mind beyond a talking point, but what he ended up endorsing from Ryan bore almost no resemblance to what he actually promised on the campaign trail. As I noted from several articles referenced above, this seems to mostly have come down to the fact that Trump had essentially no interest in the nuance of an extremely complex policy, no desire to learn, and by consequence had no grasp of what might actually be feasible to get through the House, much less the Senate.

Tax reform is just as complicated (if not more so) because we have used it as a tool of policy (i.e. the reason we have loopholes in the first place) for decades if not longer. Like healthcare you're going to have a divide between the ideological purists and the legislators who are restrained by pragmatism, and on top of that they'll be doing it without the expected savings from healthcare reform to offset reduced revenue from possible tax cuts. If that wasn't enough, the purists have been emboldened because they called Trump's bluff and got away with it, at least in the short term.

So, to bring this rambling point to its conclusion: if Trump promoted a health care plan that was almost nothing like what he promised, had zero interest in the practical details, and couldn't bring Congress in line because he wasn't sufficiently committed to anything about it in order to ensure Congress he actually had some skin in the game, why would tax reform be any different? More importantly, why would you take anything he promises on tax reform at face value when Donald Trump, Super Awesome Business Man Who Alone Can Fix It, couldn't close the deal on something that Republicans have been campaigning on for nearly seven fucking years?

2. Yes, a party full of people who misuse Jesus' statement that "the poor will always be with you" is the party that will cut taxes on the poor and shift the burden to the rich, despite that being contrary to decades of actual Republican policy.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:19 AM   #3705
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It's pretty starkly a victory for Trump that this is happening.
It really isn't. I understand how you drew the conclusion you did, but I disagree with it.

Trump pushed this thing hard. Steve Bannon ordered GOP congressmen who were abstaining to vote for it.

Quote:
"Guys, look. This is not a discussion. This is not a debate. You have no choice but to vote for this bill."

Bannon's point was: This is the Republican platform. You're the conservative wing of the Republican Party. But people in the room were put off by the dictatorial mindset.

One of the members replied: "You know, the last time someone ordered me to something, I was 18 years old. And it was my daddy. And I didn't listen to him, either."
Trump said the day prior to the vote that anyone who didn't vote for it would be committing "political suicide", and Bannon reportedly went on to keep a "shit list" of everyone who dared to oppose him.

The plan was garbage. No one wants a fucking tax credit, it wouldn't even help those who already pay very little in taxes (especially the lowest paid jobs) - people want healthcare and the peace of mind knowing that they can go to the hospital and not go bankrupt. There are some people in this country, and I've met a few, who chose to die over life saving medical procedures, because their family was so poor and they didn't want to bankrupt them. Anyway... nearly every analyst said this was going to wind up being a far worse replacement for the ACA, in fact, many speculate it was drafted to benefit only the richest (which it would have) while being able to tell their voters "See? We did it! We replaced Obamacare, just like we promised, and we did it quickly, too!"

The issue was they dug themselves into this hole where they were going to lose voters either way. Do we pass healthcare fast and not think it through/make it shady and try to hide it, or do we take our time and pass a not-as-terrible plan because it's more well thought out and discussed, and risk losing voters because we didn't do it fast enough?

The GOP have no excuse - they had seven years to come up with a replacement, and the one they pushed was lazily thrown together in two months time with a few brainstorming sessions. Trump promised a very moderately liberal approach to healthcare during his campaign - that everyone would be covered, and that pre-existing conditions would still be covered - and then he tried to push this bill as hard as he could. He should have detached himself from it and let Paul Ryan and his co-sponsors do all of the talking and persuading, but Trump not only pushed it, he pushed it.

I don't agree with calling it Trumpcare like many sites have done, I think it's more important to call it Republicare because it helps us remember who was really at fault for it: the Republicans as a whole (even though half of them were against it). And it probably would have been called that if a. it had passed and b. if Trump hadn't decided to wear it on his sleeve.

So now what's going to happen is Trump is probably going to try and gut Health and Human Services and try to restrict what Obamacare can and can't do to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of Obamacare "exploding" as they now keep saying it's going to, and then try to pin the blame on... Obama. And you know what? It's probably going to work, because the people that keep putting these dumb fucks in office don't give a shit.



Also, can we talk more again about the GOP repeal of the law that protects consumer privacy that will lead to our internet histories being sold to advertisers? Can't put enough emphasis on the fact that the only senators who voted on it... were Republican. You know how much combined they each received from telecom companies to pass it? $1.7M. Yup! Your privacy is only worth a mere $1.7M to them.
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Old 03-27-2017, 07:56 AM   #3706
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Trump should have focused on one issue, and to heck with everything else. Obama for example tackled on health care right after he signed the stimulus package...and that ended up being the only thing he accomplished.

For Trump, I think his ambitious "rebuild America" investment as well as the wall were the two most realistic objectives to focus on, with the best chance of success. The healthcare thing should not have been rushed so it wouldn't come across as a defeat. And the plan blew anyway.
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Old 03-27-2017, 10:14 AM   #3707
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Okay maybe I just don't get it. What actually happens to me if my browsing history is sold to advertisers?
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:15 PM   #3708
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This should tell you a lot of what you need to know (and who to vote against next time you get the chance).
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:36 PM   #3709
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A Congressional seat is for grabs in Georgia, it seems -- this article reports on Georgia's 6th Congressional district and how a Democratic candidate has raised over $3,000,000 in a race where one would normally expect such a candidate to only scrape together several tens of thousands. While a one-representative swing isn't going to do much to change the by-the-numbers voting that the Republicans are in control of right now, a landslide victory for a Democrat in a district long held by Republicans could be a pretty declarative statement that WE DON'T WANT DONALD TRUMP and/or WE DON'T WANT THE REPUBLICANS. It would be the sort of statement that would make many office-holders, you would think, take a long second look at what they're doing.

The article points out it's still a longshot for this guy to win, though, so don't hold your breath too long.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:33 PM   #3710
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This just so happens to be my district and I am voting Democrat.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:28 PM   #3711
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JERI IF YOU CALL 678-636-9551 CHRIS GORHAM AND ALYSSA MILANO WILL TAKE YOU TO VOTE
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:22 PM   #3712
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So for a little background on this election:

Congressional District 6 of Georgia is predominately made up of a large chunk of North Fulton county, which is a suburban area of Atlanta. Fulton County is the largest county in Georgia as it was squished together from two existing counties (the old Fulton, which contained most of Atlanta proper, and Milton County, which used to be farmland before the 80's). North Fulton County is rather affluent, with some of the richest cities in the state (and the richest city, my own Johns Creek) within its borders. It's also fairly white, though there's a good deal of diversity sprinkled throughout (my high school was not majority white, though white people were the largest group, with Indians and East Asians making up most of the remaining portion and black people being a small minority). This is contrasted to the relatively urban, relatively poor, relatively black Downtown Atlanta that occupies the county's southern portion. For quite a while, there has been a divide along North/South lines, paricularly in Fulton, where some North Fulton folks see the city as a drain on their resources and feel their tax dollars are going to benefit the poor folks in the south and not them in the north. There's also an element of old-fashioned Southern racism (see: why Atlanta has no useful public transportation system despite being a gigantic metro area).

For a number of reasons, most people in North Fulton have historically leaned right (or at least voted Republican). Since the folks in the North have never had much of a say in County politics, they've gotten their Republican revenge typically by starting new cities or through their Congressional district. However, there are a few things worth noting: North Fulton is by far not the strongest conservative bastion in the Atlanta Metro (that would be the neighboring Cobb), and there are pockets of liberals or Democrat-voters, including younger folks living in the burbs, those who live on the fringes of downtown Atlanta, poorer regions on the border of Gwinnett, and immigrants/immigrant children. As such, the grasp of the Republican party on the area is shaky if enough left-leaning folks come to the polls. Current polling shows Jon Ossoff, the best Dem contender, coming out on top in the first election, though there will almost certainly be a run-off. In that case, he is looking at a tight race, but stands a very good chance at getting elected.

It's going to be interesting and it's kinda neat to have my vote actually mean something for once.
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:42 PM   #3713
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Thanks for that. Did some reading on the subject and it definitely changed my opinon
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:58 PM   #3714
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Among other things, she's not president of the United States you fucking halfwit.

Donald Trump spending years Tweeting shit about Obama and not realizing that what's good for the goose is good for the gander will never not be one of the hilarious subtexts of the next four years.
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Old 03-27-2017, 10:31 PM   #3715
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Dang. I was deciding between the VPNs and this may have just tipped my hand in favour for PIA. The only problem is it's an advanced user's VPN.
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:51 AM   #3716
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The bill passed through the house. Fucking hell.

Some dude made this website though: https://searchinternethistory.com/ . Even so, this is a fucking shitshow.

I'm just waiting for the politicians to make a bill making them immune to such purchases of their history. I can smell it.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:02 AM   #3717
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The best solution to that is use https: all the time (which I do) or use a service like DuckDuckGo (which I also do) which doesn't track you.

Funny thing: MSN doesn't use https, and it's the only major media portal and search engine (Bing) to not do so. Microsoft clearly has the resources to enable it, but they don't simply because of the data analytics that come from people too dumb to search things on their network.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:13 AM   #3718
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I'm hearing that there are still restrictions in place about the data that can be sold. I don't know how much of it is true, but I read that the ISP can basically sell data in bulk but they can't explicitly say whose data it is. It would help companies be able to buy data en masse from one specific area of the country, pour through to determine what they need to do to improve marketing or to beat out competition, etc - for example, if there is a particular area a company sees weak sales in, they could buy the data for that area and read over it to determine how their competition fares and what drives sales for their competition on the internet.

I mean, if THAT'S truly all it is, on the one hand, I'm more or less neutral. I don't like that my data would be used and sold en masse, but if it's sold in bulk combined with the data of everyone else in my area or something like that, then that sounds like a data scientist's wet dream (and Data Science is something I have some interest in myself). On the other hand, if this is the actual case, I still view it as a breach of privacy even if it's all just a lump mess of anonymous data, or at least extremely borderline. It's still the biggest, slipperiest slope at that point.

So, it really comes down to how exactly this would work, and from what I've read, I'm not entirely convinced you can just call up your ISP and ask to buy someone's internet history like reddit seems to believe. Pretty sure there are laws in place that prohibit something like that and it would be taken to the Supreme Court in a heartbeat.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:01 PM   #3719
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Problem VGM is this is the next step forward to discriminated data. Companies already had access to information like this as anonymous search data. That's why Google can still publish macro trends despite individuals having their data encrypted over https.

You have to make a stand at this even when it's innocuous, or else our rights will be taken away for us before we can say "gateway issue". The gateway issue was the FIRST one,

What irks me the most is I'm pretty sure this will lead to HIPPA violations that are difficult to prosecute.

Zuko: "Hey Sandy, the doc says my bad cholesterol is pretty high."
Verizon: "Pssst, hey Pfizer, you might wanna increase your Lipitor ads to area code 11211!"
Pfizer: "Why yes Verizon, I might want to increase my ads a lot LOL! Here have $$$"
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:13 AM   #3720
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Among other things, she's not president of the United States you fucking halfwit.

Donald Trump spending years Tweeting shit about Obama and not realizing that what's good for the goose is good for the gander will never not be one of the hilarious subtexts of the next four years.
Highling from the replies to said tweet:
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@realDonaldTrump Because you literally have more Russian ties than a Slavic menswear shop
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Old 03-31-2017, 03:14 AM   #3721
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It's falling apart at the seams today.

""When you are given immunity, it means you probably commited a crime." - Michael Flynn"

Here's a list of everything wrong with Flynn.

Here's another list of all the shit that's happened to Trump's administration JUST TODAY.

Also, a reminder that Trump continues to golf every weekend while lying and saying he's in meetings.
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Old 03-31-2017, 10:43 AM   #3722
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Geet, you know me and I'm pretty liberal myself, but it's hard to take some of your links seriously when I open it and see:

Quote:
God I can't wait till they all get sent to jail. America will have a party unlike any other as his supporters cry watching their racist "god emperor" being sent off to jail.
Soon their fascist leader will be impeached, and die alone in a jail after trialed for treason.We will win a landslide in 2018 and then elect a progressive Democrat in 2020 with another landslide. All of us liberal city folks will continue using our superior intellectual capabilities to build robots and put Trump supporters out of jobs and watch as their racist white communities die out from no jobs. All of their kids will have to come to the cities and be exposed to diversity and tolerance and see how much better it is that hate and bigotry that Trump represents. We will also grant citizenship to the tens of millions of undocumented immigrants, and allow more non-white people to come in, further solidifying a progressive diverse America that votes in universal healthcare, socialism and social justice policies that help everyone and dismantle white power structures that Trumpets want to preserve.
This is the end of Trump, the beginning of freeing America from the grip of Russian control.
A liiiiiiiiiiitle extreme, don't you think?
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:19 AM   #3723
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Most definitely. On the other hand, it's the people like those that are devoted enough to actually fish up those links and facts, and the sources are all legit. And on days like this, some idealism is always appreciated, however hollow it might actually be in reality.

Extreme though her portrayal of the future might be, it's dreaming of such a future that keeps hopes and dreams alive in a world like Trump's. Though I could do without the vitriol and "superior intellectual capabilities."
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:35 PM   #3724
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If other liberal/left/anti-Trump readers are reading your opening paragraph and are immediately being put off reading then your efforts are wasted, no matter how impressive they are. The entire thing smacks of (almost literally self stated) superiority complex and the fact they're completely disregarding all conservative viewpoints (not all of which are regressive or bigoted!) actually genuinely incites offence within me given I have friends who subscribe to some conservative notions who are definitely not shitty people.

If I wanted to read self-masturbatory crap I'd read Trump's Twitter feed.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:55 PM   #3725
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Hey, it's not my post. I was linked to that post, skipped the opening paragraph and started reading. I've replaced it with a post that has just the list if that's the part you want to read.

If you want to get into the debate about conservative viewpoints, there might be some parts of American conservatism that aren't, but the Republican Party sure as hell isn't championing them. They make it extremely, extremely easy to unilaterally hate the entire party and its voters when most of their platform is regressive or bigoted. Or simply misinformed, frankly. Their single "biggest" position, from a single-issue voter perspective, is being pro-life. That's not a good picture.

I sure as hell am not going to blame a single person for having a reaction like that poster is having to the state of Trump's America, at the end of the day. If this were a normal world we were living in, it would be a problem, but I and that poster are fighting for the very same issues from top to bottom. I'm going to save my arguments on that one.
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