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Old 10-10-2012, 01:33 PM   #26
zerozoner
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I'm for 1.5 typed Bide for many of the reasons already stated above- To lazy to retype them for no reason.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:55 PM   #27
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As much as I appreciate the input, I'm not really looking for a vote, so to minimize thread length, if you could only post if you're adding something or responding to a post, I'd appreciate it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
I mean my basic argument is that there shouldn't exist a way of dealing 3 HBs of damage in a single move, barring obvious exceptions like Blast Burn to a Snover. Bide is too easy and contributes to Gen I dominance
1x typed bide is less or as powerful than 2x typeless bide in all circumstances except double weaknesses too.

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Most people wanted to keep the switching rules were you could recall a Pokemon and rider a three mover without your opponent being able to re order.

I mean 1.5x typed is a start but isn't the crux of it.
I also kinda wanted to keep that because it was funny but I rewrote the things because they were broken :p.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:38 PM   #29
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Yeah so make it 1.5. I see typeless as the problem where others don't though so I guess I'm wrong.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:41 PM   #30
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Tomorrow I'll try to write up a basic fact list of what the different options would entail (basically how much they'd do in the different circumstances) so it's easy for people to see which they think is the most balanced and usable. As I said I think 1x typed is the best option but am quite prepared to be disagreed with once "this is the effect your option would have on the various scenarios" is considered.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:50 PM   #31
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Once there's a clear winner, I can do a rewrite.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:05 PM   #32
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If we just nipped down the threshold to significant damage and made it 1.5, that would solve a lot of the problems. Although I think just the latter would be sufficient.

Keep it typed, definitely.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:08 PM   #33
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My vote goes to keeping it typed
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:22 PM   #34
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As much as I appreciate the input, I'm not really looking for a vote, so to minimize thread length, if you could only post if you're adding something or responding to a post, I'd appreciate it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:21 AM   #35
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To me it feels like the ASB is afraid of people wiping out others. Making it 1.5 is just going to make it annoying and more maths than ASB. In the anime people have been smashed. So if you can demolish you're opponent using Bide, so what? If that is how the move is written, make the most of it, don't make a suggestion to make it ultra-complicated. I don't necessarily agree with changing something like Bide to a lower damage multiplier or changing it, just makes it more confused and all like stated above.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:48 AM   #36
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Honestly, worrying about a broken move that relies on the brokenness of other moves is silly and pointless. If you are worried about your opponent being able to defeat you in one round with Bide, use your brain and don't order superpowerful moves when the opponent has the ability to use Bide.

As it stands, Bide is a great way to take advantage of an opponent's strategic misstep. However, it does give Gen1 mons a distinct advantage because they can force their opponents to be more cautious when fighting them, which can be a problem.

Therefore, I support the restriction of Bide to a 1.5 typed or typeless beam, which does not restrict its effectiveness too far without completely destroying the purpose of Biding in the first place.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:08 PM   #37
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CAN WE REMOVE/CLARIFY THE CLAUSE ABOUT IT BREAKING AT THE END OF THE ROUND(S)? THANKS. IT'S INCREDIBLY VAGUE AND ANNOYING FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS TO DEAL WITH IT.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:24 PM   #38
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A simultaneously excellently intelligent and horrendously retarded post, Shuckle. Well played.

True, Sneezey.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:31 PM   #39
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Why? I know I just used it and all, but it seems incredibly obvious to me. If it takes 3/4ths of a HB damage, it breaks instantly, but if it doesn't, it breaks at the end of a round.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:50 PM   #40
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"a" round. Not "the round" or "the following round". It needs clarified because frankly it's kinda dumb leaving it to chance when we don't know what the chances are.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:06 PM   #41
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...The same round in which it was used?
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:08 PM   #42
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It can release at the end of the following round aswell. And possibly longer. It's all up to chance. Hence "round(s)" in the descript.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:11 AM   #43
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So, Bide has become something of an instant win in the Whirl Cup owing to the lesser health. That brings us back to this.

As Concept astutely puts it, the real problem is the 2x power thing. It links in with my point that with moves now actually at the correct power, four Hyper Beams is not enough health. Bide is just too strong to be fair.

Who would object if it were reduced to 1.5x damage reflected?

Bearing in mind that metal Burst does 1.5x for no apparent reason but Mirror Coat and Counter do not.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:44 AM   #44
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I have actually been thinking about this... what if we bump it down to 1.5x.damage, raise the minimum for it to break to a HB worth of damage taken in, and while we keep the damage cap at 2 HB we make it so there is no cap on energy, so if the Bide user takes in two Blizzards (24), they reflect back the max damage of 2 HB (30), but the energy use is higher (36). I suggest this because as is a major problem with Bide is how efficient it is. Heck, some people still ref it as 2x damage for 1.5x energy, which is BROKEN.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:11 AM   #45
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All of your ideas at once would make Bide useless.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:19 AM   #46
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All of your ideas at once would make Bide useless.
No, not really. Don't you know that massive damage comes at extreme cost?

*psssssssss*
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:38 AM   #47
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You could probably do two out of the following four changes without making it ultranerfed.
a) Typeless
b) 1.5x
c) Much higher energy cost
d) Lowering cap

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Old 01-10-2013, 11:53 AM   #48
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I'm actually coming around to x1.5 Typeless after having seen how destructive it can still be with neutral attacks.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:58 AM   #49
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Why typeless? In most cases that's just going to make it better (given most pokemon resist their own type). I'm not a fan of the idea of letting people guarantee 1.5x as much damage as they receive every single round they go second. Literally the only thing that stops me spamming bide every single round I go second these days is that it's typed so usually they'd resist part or all of it.

Typeless would make bide better.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:04 PM   #50
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How about the following, Jeri?

Bide (NO) -- Taking a defensive stance to reduce damage somewhat, the user takes all attacks, making no attempt to dodge, absorbing their power in to a red aura surrounds the user. When the aura breaks, it condenses in front of the user, sending all energy back in the form of a large beam which is aimed wherever the user wants. The beam is 1.5x the power of the attacks levied against it, dealing neutral damage to all pokémon regardless of their type. The Bide will break after about 3/4ths of a Hyper Beam worth of damage (though all the damage done, regardless of the amount will be reflected). The aura cannot be penetrated, so status changing moves, OHKO attacks, etc. will not work. During the Bide, the user cannot do any other moves and remains still. Energy usage for a Bide starts high, costing 1.5x the energy of the moves used against it, and the user will need time to recharge afterwards. Each subsequent use of Bide will increase the energy cost involved.

> Typeless makes Bide better

Only on the assumption that all Bide users are idiots.

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