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Old 08-21-2012, 05:04 PM   #1
Mercutio
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Sunflora Superheroes

So superheroes are awesome. Discuss? All universes, etc etc.


I've found myself drawn to Nightwing recently. Specifically Dick Grayson as Nightwing. He's got a lot of the Batman mythos about him but he's got a bit of Spiderman in there. Move, don't get hit, be a bit of a dick to everyone you fight. Later on he becomes a little more brooding in a lot of incarnations, especially as he takes on the cowl briefly. I just like his style. Definitely the kind of hero I'd want to be capable of being.

Superman's a douche.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:09 PM   #2
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I kinda hate DC. Mostly because they just did a big universe altering storyline, then they quickly RESET THE UNIVERSE. Then everything goes all backwards and wonky. Also, a LOT of their comics always seem to reset everything back to equilibrium. Hell, I remember when I tried to follow a few DC titles and practically each issue amounted to NOTHING HAPPENING. After 4 issues of nothing happening on the subject of their plot, I gave the hell up. It was bad enough when Super Boy Prime punched the universe until it changed. To not even advance a plot after 4 months and buying those comics to find out they amounted to wasted print really made me drop DC faster than a brick onto Jupiter.

I like the more recent years of Marvel, especially under the editorial leadership of Joe Quesada since around 2000. He's implemented a lot of guidelines that has kept Marvel storylines moving forward. Deaths stick (usually) and characters evolve. Storylines actually feel like their events have weight and impact. Characters change due to these events and the unexpected sometimes happen, keeping everything interesting.

A lot of post-House of M storylines I've found quite good, especially with the whole Mutant situation in the Marvel universe. Dark Reign was especially well done in my opinion as it was a perfect way to follow up the Civil War story.

More recently, I have been following Uncanny X-Force. After the events of House of M and the mutant population being dropped to unsustainable numbers, the X-Men had to adopt rather dark methods of preserving themselves against the anti-mutant groups. X-Force became an assassin squad to preemptively stop mutant mass murder. Uncanny X-Force picks up after the X-Men officially disbanded the group, now a kind of rogue Hit Squad faced with dilemmas involving the morality of their work. Should you kill 1 to prevent the death of millions? Should you kill someone for something they might do? Do you destroy something for the possibility it might be misused even if it could do great good as well? And of course, amazing artwork by Mark Brooks.

Another comic I've recently read was Carnage (2010), which brought the supervillain back after quite a few years of... well... being dead. It's follow up Carnage USA was also amazing. The artist Clayton Crain is an extremely good digital painter. In addition, the writer Zeb Wells is amazing with dialogue. The characters really come out well thanks to the words he puts in their word bubbles.

Finally, if you've never read a comic from Top Cow, I highly suggest it. Their flagship title Witchblade has reached over 150 issues since it began in 1995, which is pretty difficult to do with a title starting after the 1960s. In addition, their whole universe recently both expanded and reset. Despite my disdain for a reset, they did it extremely tastefully and explain it extremely well within the story of the universe. Also, they do a lot of work with my current absolute number one favorite artist Stjepan Sejic. I love Ron Marz writing since the beginning, but Stjepan Sejic's art really brought me back.

I'll end with this: If you don't have CDisplay, you might want to try it out. It's an excellent way to *sample* comics.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:54 AM   #3
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Yeah DC is pretty bad atm, but I don't see Marvel a much better.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:29 PM   #4
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I won't turn this into a DC vs. Marvel thread. We all know that's a never ending argument.

DC has had some great stuff though. I personally loved Superman: Red Son. I hate Superman in almost every other form, but Red Son felt right. It captured how even with a upbringing that most people perceive as evil, he was still good. He did everything he did because he thought it benefited the people. And he never forced it on the world, they willingly gave themselves to him (except for the USA).

Watchmen is also one of my favorite comics. Not the new Before Watchmen comics, the original Alan Moore Watchmen which became a pretty decent movie. I liked seeing flawed human characters as opposed to the usual DC perfectly good and moral heroes like Superman. It's one of the things which attracts me to Marvel and it's perfectly done by Alan Moore. The characters felt real even with a super powered weirdo like Dr. Manhattan walking around. The whole political situation with fear of the nuclear war, the distrust of vigilantes, and the clashing viewpoints of every character on how to handle the world's problems.

I've had copies of the Dark Knight Returns and Hush waiting to be read, but after the debacle of Return of Bruce Wayne, it's been hard to look at Batman without cringing.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:55 PM   #5
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i like marvel

but mostly for the sloppy shipping makeout sessions

Seriously though I've never really been a comic book kinda guy but I really do like the stories and continuities that the writers have drummed up over the years. I originally gravitated towards DC but have found myself more compelled by Marvel as of late.

I -have- read Watchmen, though, and I really do love it.
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:39 AM   #6
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I haven't read the comics faithfully since the Maximum Carnage storyline- which was the last one that I really enjoyed. There's probably a lot I'm missing out on but I have no idea what heroes/storylines are actually good these days.

Suggestions?
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:44 AM   #7
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Was just reading Wikipedia's article on Beast and ... since when has Hank been a cat? Sounds like the writers are toying with the idea of having poor Hank phylogenetically de-evolve over time. Does that mean we're eventually going to be treated to (read: made to suffer) a reptilian and a piscine Hank McCoy? Also, how in the hell was he only 20 years old after leaving the X-Men the first time to join the Avengers? Shouldn't he have been like 30 to 35 by then? Or is Comic Book Beast a crapton younger than Fox Saturday Morning Cartoon Beast?

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Old 08-23-2012, 02:02 AM   #8
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I think he just came across as old, he is meant to be about the same age as Jean, Cyclops, Bobby (Iceman) and Warren (Angel).

At the moment I am much more of a Marvel fan, the only things that I am really enjoying from DC are Teen Titans and that is entirely because of Bunker, and Batwoman, which is just a beautifully drawn comic, though if they ever bring Red Devil and Renee Motoya back, then they can have all of my money.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muyotwo View Post
Suggestions?
If you liked Maximum Carnage, you might want to try out the newer Carnage comics I mentioned in the previous post. I'd probably need to know your preferences to really throw a suggestion though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
Was just reading Wikipedia's article on Beast and ... since when has Hank been a cat?
A lot of mutants went through secondary mutations or their powers enhanced prior to the Mutant Decimation. Unfortunately for Beast, his new mutation made him more feline. The story arc Gifted of Astonishing X-Men (written by Joss Whedon) shows how Hank is highly concerned with his new mutation and even fears possibly losing his intellect and even his mind. He becomes tempted a miracle Mutant Cure but ultimately decided against it since it would have had been bad for the mutant community if an X-Men endorsed the cure.

And yeah, Pikagod got it pretty close. Age is kind of hard to get a perfect fix on thanks to the scaling timeline, but I wouldn't doubt it if he was only 20.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:33 PM   #10
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I've personally been reading the 'Court of Owls' storyline as of late as well as most of the "Batfamily" Comics. Superman reboot...not so much. Teen Titans has lost me as well. Young Justice on Cartoon Network is personally sick imo though. It's almost on par or better than how Bruce Timm did his DCAU. It takes a lot of characters that I never thought of being relevant or forgotten and makes them pretty sweet and up to date.

I've never actually read Marvel comics. Read the plot lines more or less on the Marvel Wiki but I own all the Avengers movies and hope to own the Avengers the day it comes out as well. Tony Stark is my boy.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:43 PM   #11
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I like Squirrel Girl. She's pretty boss.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:02 PM   #12
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> Marvel vs DC

Fair enough. My personal opinion is that whoever has been managing DC's comics in the last few years is on some pretty magical crack. I like a lot of the stuff they're putting out, but there are a lot of things stopping it from selling and they're not doing much about it. This said, however, with the exception of the nineties cartoon Spider Man, I like most of the DCAU stuff better than the Marvel equivalents. This may be due to Batman love, though.

> Watchmen

Agree entirely. Great graphic novel, brilliantly written and illustrated. I find the film to be an interesting phenomenon, though. Generally, it's pretty faithful. Certain things are missing, such as the shrink's unravelling personal life, which do add depth to the work and so are missed in the film. However, the film generally speaking makes much more sense than the original stuff. Let's be honest, making a big ol' psychic alien bomb is a bit ott. Additionally, while I loved Rorschach in both the original and adaptation, the (inevitable and understandable) slightly greater focus on him in the film is in some ways a bit of a shame.

> Squirrel Girl

Haha. Love her.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:48 PM   #13
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But Rorschach makes the film. I mean, it's an 8/10 film regardless, but Rorschach alone (and the excellent performance by Jackie Earle Haley) elevates the film to such heights that were it not for the awkward sex scenes and distracting choices of pop music in certain places -- the worst being Rufus Wainwright's "Hallelujah" during, what a surprise, the most awkward of all the sex scenes! -- I'd easily be able to rank Watchmen as my #1 favorite superhero movie of all time. As it is, Watchmen and The Dark Knight are locked, each exchanging blows to the other but not able to persuasively KO him in my personal bout for the crown. The final scene with Rorschach in it is one of the most amazing climaxes I have ever seen in a film. And I'm not using that superlative description lightly either: I really do mean it's one of the most amazing I've seen, ranking up there with the raptors in the visitor center in Jurassic Park or the Soviet-American-Red October three-way vessel mishmash in the big finish of The Hunt for Red October.

====================

I never read comic books as a kid. Once in 1992 I visited my godmother's mother in Atlanta, Georgia and she got me a Batman comic which had to do with Manbat, one of my all-time least favorite characters in the Batman mythos. ^^; Aside from that, I don't think I own a single Western comicbook. But I did grow up in the 1990s and that means I had more than my fair share of exposure to cartoons inspired by (or which themselves inspired) the comics. These included:So like, I definitely had my fair share of exposure to big names in comics. What's more, even before there was such a thing as B:tAS or the 1990s X-Men cartoon I had already seen all three Superman movies and the first two live-action Batman movies. (We even owned the two Batman films on VHS.) So through a combination of films and television, I've known about Supes, the Dark Knight, and then some for many years -- hell, for something nearing 90% of my life.

So while I do feel a little awkward weighing in on a "Who's your favorite superhero and why?" debate when I haven't even read the comics or seen most of the recent films, I suppose I may as well.

DC or Marvel?: from what I've seen, overall I think I prefer Marvel

Favorite superhero: But even if I gave it Marvel above, I've gotta give it to Bruce Wayne / Batman here. He's definitely my favorite of the famous-to-society superheroes and even if we allow for the ones lesser-known to society (like a Rorschach or a Deadpool) I'd still probably go for the Caped Crusader. He's the best superhero and he doesn't even have superpowers in the traditional sense. I know a lot of people complain that he's just a rich man with toys but I feel like that's not really who Batman is: it's just how he manages to get things done. The man behind the mask, Bruce Wayne, is very interesting and it's been a pleasure to rediscover him in Christopher Nolan's excellent films.

Favorite X-Men character: I've gotta give it to Logan / Wolverine. As a kid, my favorite was Gambit: 'cause I really loved what the Fox cartoon did with Gambit and Rogue, this whole idea of him coming onto her kinda heavy and her rebuffing him but secretly liking him and yet fearing hurting him and then (lol) the irony of how they both technically have powers which prevent them from touching the other, hers sucking away his powers and his, well, making her molecularly unstable and exploding. They were a great idea for a superhero couple and as a kid I never tired of suave, sassy, Cajun Gambit. But as I got older and learned more about Wolverine -- his past, his true powers (namely the regeneration), and his search for answers -- he was a character older me couldn't help but love. So yeah. Just as I gotta give the overall award to Batman, I gotta give the overall X-Men award to Logan.

Favorite Avenger: I gotta be honest: I don't know much about the Avengers. I know that either the initial squad or else the film squad (if not both) consisted of Captain America, Iron Man, the Incredible Hulk, and Thor. But my exposure to these guys is:
  • Captain America: I saw the 1980s film as a kid in the late '90s / early 2000s once and that's it. Haven't seen the new film.
  • Iron Man: Haven't seen either of his two films.
  • Hulk: saw the really, really bad Ang Lee film with Eric Bana as the Hulk and Nick Nolte as the father and was so turned off by it I unapologetically skipped over the Edward Norton film. Hulk is still probably one of my least favorite heroes of the ones who are really famous to society.
  • Thor: I didn't even know this guy existed until college. Haven't seen his movie yet either.
In other words, of the six recent films they'd been in pre-Avengers, I've only seen one of them and it was the shitty Ang Lee one. So I probably shouldn't weigh in and judge. But if I had to, based on discussions I've had with Loki and others about these characters' backstories, I would probably have to go with Captain America as my favorite. People love a good Rip Van Winkle story even if they're not all that original any more and Captain America's sounds like a good one.

Favorite superpower: without a doubt, anything to do with immortality. People say it's boring but it makes for some really interesting characters in my opinion. Not when they're like Apocalypse or Galactus but when they're like Ra's al-Ghul or Logan. If you say "pick a superpower not in Logan's possession " I'd probably have to go with high-level telepathy as depicted in the X-Men universe being used by Charles Xavier or the Phoenix.

Favorite superhero story I wish they'd turn into a movie: well, without Christopher Nolan at the helm I worry they'd fuck it up something royal, but I really wouldn't be against Nolan's golden touch taking a peek at Paul Dini's Heart of Ice, one of my all-time favorite Batman: the Animated Series episodes and definitely my favorite villain in the Batman mythos. (Maybe Heath Ledger's Joker is the exception. [/surprise]) Other than that ... hmm ... I'd really love to see them pull off Superman right. So while I don't have a particular story in mind, I'd say "Please make a good Superman movie." You don't have to spend 30-60 minutes on his origin story in Smallville, directors! >_< We know it! We all know it! Start the film with bright-eyed Clark moving into Metropolis for the first time and get things going from there. TBH, I would recommend taking a page out of Chris Nolan's book and don't even have Lex Luthor in the first film. Everyone knows Lex Luthor is Superman's archnemesis. So if you try to shoehorn him into the first film, and if the first film is about Clark's arrival in Metropolis, it's gonna feel like every other Superman origin story ever. Why not feature a different villain in the first film, and then just like Nolan smartly did you can then allow that to have already set your audience up to be familiar with your Superman and then you can devote an entire film to exploring his relationship with Lex Luthor. That would work. A 2-hour Supes vs. Luthor film with absolutely zero time wasted on the audience seeing Jor-El's ghost or watching Superman lift a tractor off of Jonathan Kent.

The post's gotten pretty long so I'll end it here. ^^;

Last edited by Talon87; 08-27-2012 at 08:23 PM. Reason: lol "Bruce Bana" corrected
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #14
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> Rorschach makes Watchmen

Fair. Personally I care as much about Nite Owl II (middle age and impotence), Comedian (what's the point of laughing in the end) and Dr Manhatten (I have a giant blue penis*) as I care about Rorschach's story. The actor is fantastic, though, I do agree. I wouldn't personally put that death scene in my top tier, though.

> Immortality

I agree, immortality (or, at least, slowed ageing/time displacement/transcends time) make for interesting stories. This is partially because writers generally skip over how immortality would work if the character was alive for aeons (Vandal Savage for example), but it's definitely interesting. Much like with characters such as Spike (Buffyverse), you can have a character who is on the outside a brutish idiot but is in actuality extremely intelligent and capable of a great many things. They didn't do this so much in the X-men films (despite the Wolverine fapping), which irritated me, but seeing these characters do things they wouldn't be able to do were they not very old yet youthful is great. Personally I think true immortality would be utter torture, but greater lifespan in the order of centuries would be interesting in many ways.


* By which I mean 'time is meaningless to me' stuff. Obviously.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:13 PM   #15
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Spoilers, man. I didn't say anything about

(Watchmen spoilers)
Spoiler: show
death, did I? So why did you? Some respect for people who haven't seen the film yet, please. Or do you plan to spoil Iron Man and Captain America for me?
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:23 PM   #16
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As someone who's never really picked up and read a comic book (aside from Marvel's Civil War that I picked up on a whim and is pretty awesome), I've not had the classical exposure to superheroes that most people have. I did watch a few cartoons growing up (Batman: TAS and a few others that I can't remember - yay the 90s!) but most of my knowledge comes from films and Wikipedia articles.

Sadly one of my first was Batman & Robin, which we all know is awful. Big fan of the X-men films, the Dark Knight triolgy and the MCU, which I saw at various points growing up. So I'm probably mostly unqualified to post much here.

I will say to Talon that Hulk is godawful and shouldn't colour your opinion of The Incredible Hulk which is a reboot in the MCU continuity. It's much better and I've found it better to just erase the Ang Lee version from my memory. Pretty sure I've seen all the MCU films at least twice, and I'm a big fan of all of them. True, they're not 10/10, but they do what they say on the tin and I'd recommend them.

Gotta say that one of my favourites of the superhero genre was Heroes. Well, the first season and a half anyway. I found it a refreshing take on the format until it turned to shit.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:52 PM   #17
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I can see multiple things that you have 'spoiled' in your previous post, Talon. I have absolutely no interest in such things I'm afraid.

I didn't actually think Hulk was awful. This is me, who thought Avengers was a pile of utter shite and that Dark Knight Rises was mediocre.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:54 PM   #18
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Heroes was so X-Men. Especially that season where they were all hunted down by the government. Too bad it all amounted to nothing. All they needed were giant robots hunting them in later seasons and racists groups forming.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I can see multiple things that you have 'spoiled' in your previous post, Talon. I have absolutely no interest in such things I'm afraid.
What have I spoiled? Identify it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:31 AM   #20
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I thought the Dark Knight Rises was a GREAT movie. Picking it apart though piece by piece though, I can see it being mediocre.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:45 AM   #21
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It was a better two films.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:53 PM   #22
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I'd like to see if they continue it with a different director.

Avengers coming out at the end of the month. Woot ^_^

Also, Batman has just been introduced to the Smallville Season 11 comic with Nightwing as his sidekick. Nightwing however is Barbara Gordon. It was originally supposed to be Stephanie Brown (Who I personally am a huge fan of...the Batgirl sort anyway). Any thoughts?
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:10 PM   #23
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I wanna throw out there that my favorite X-Men character is Nightcrawler. I'm not sure why, I just... I feel he doesn't get enough love. if i was nightcrawler id rob banks forever and that means i am a horrible person
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:46 PM   #24
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Deadpool is my favorite X-Man. Here's one example why:

Spoiler: show



He also has the best X-Man uniform.

Spoiler: show
WARNING: NOT SAFE FOR.... ANYONE.

Spoiler: show


This one is more modest.



Actually... now that I think about it...

Spoiler: show
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:04 PM   #25
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Those were pretty funny, Loki. Though you had me fooled at first. I was like, "Wait, huh? Deadpool's not an X-Man, is he? " And then Hank and Scott laid it out for me.

While the fourth one's probably the funniest of the lot, my favorite one is the first one. I just love how the other guy kinda breaks the fourth wall and says what he says.
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