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Old 08-05-2012, 07:44 PM   #26
kusari
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>Dave

So we're looking at something like .125/.25/1/1.5/2?
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:44 PM   #27
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I agree with Dave but I would want stab added too
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:48 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kusari View Post
>Dave

So we're looking at something like .125/.25/1/1.5/2?
I'm pretty sure he meant 0.5/0.75/1/1.5/2.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:14 PM   #29
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Power creeeeeeep power creeeeeeep

Abuse of the system is one way to win, but strategy and cunning should be able to beat it every time. And all your solutions are very good, but they are trying to make the most minimal and obvious change possible, though the problem is complex and very difficult to explain.

The best solution, though the most difficult to explain, is to cap the total pool of super effective energy provided it is off-type. So, Electabuzz vs. Tyranitar (though it may seem a terrible matchup on the surface) could still go either way due to the capped pool. Electabuzz will be unable to super duper effectively damage Tyranitar except for maybe one fighting-type attack (which'll drop him sickeningly down to 3/4 health and if it's a strong attack down to 1/2), and Tyranitar will be unable to respond with a triple Earthquake instacritical but instead a more manageable single Earthquake, however painful that might become.

The problem with super effective moves as it stands is the fact that super effective moves are the moves that are most efficient. You have an energy limit that stops you from fighting more than one Pokemon at once. This energy limit ensures the abuse of super-effective moves due to the looming threat of an energy KO. In order to beat more than one opponent (or hope to at least), you're going to need to strike with the most damage and using the least energy, and it just so happens that there is an outlet which provides an insane damage:energy ratio.

If you want to see the abuse of super-effectiveness go away, put limits on the energy pools of super-effective, off-type moves, reduce the super effective limit to something like 2x/3x or 1.5x/2x, and remove every other energy cap there is except for the common-sense cap that says you cannot do a Hydro Pump x2 every round. This will lighten the load on Tyranitar vs. Electabuzz, punish those who want to go Mantine vs. Pikachu, but allow those who really believe in their Mantines and Tyranitars and Electabuzzes to have at least a fighting chance at victory from the jaws of mismatch.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #30
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>Shuckle describes in perfect detail the type energy system we already have in place

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Old 08-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #31
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[COLOR="YellowGreen"]>Shuckle describes in perfect detail the type energy system we already have in place
>.>

<.<

No I didn't. You assumed that the words "restrict off-type energy" (AND THERE WERE LOTS OF OTHER WORDS TOO) were the basis of my point, when they most definitely were not. Clearly it is time for...

THE MIGHTY TL;DR

The current energy cap system is supposed to restrict the amount of super effective attacks you can use. But! It does not. It restricts the amount of neutral moves you can do instead because they are much less energy efficient. Therefore, the best solution is to:

~impose heavy restrictions on super effective moves that are off-type
~remove all other energy restrictions
~reduce the super effective limits

very nice image by the way
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:35 PM   #32
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Restricting SE moves on a case-by-case basis is a little ridiculous and probably a step too far.

It also makes off-type attacks pretty close to useless. The one HB standard of type energy is really fine how it is.

You also cripple Normals with this, which makes me and Kushums sad.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:44 PM   #33
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Restricting SE moves on a case-by-case basis is a little ridiculous and probably a step too far.
I don't see it as so. It's certainly better than Tyranitar being able to instantly place an Electabuzz into the critical range and said Electabuzz being able to KO a Tyranitar in one round. To heavily restrict the use of super effective moves that are off-type does not seem to me to be that exciting of a restriction, and I could argue that it is a rather conservative change from what we have already.

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It also makes off-type attacks pretty close to useless. The one HB standard of type energy is really fine how it is.
No. It makes off-type moves even more usable, but removes the possibility for super-typespam. That's a fair trade-off in my mind.

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You also cripple Normals with this, which makes me and Kushums sad.
you could have unlimited blizzards

i fail to see how this cripples anything.

I mean, sure, Normals would no longer be able to have dominion over all other types by way of the great Super Effective, but they will still have insanely large movepools of many different interesting types.

The one drawback is that we'd then get an overabundance of very powerful moves...but that's more of a strategy thing anyway, innit?
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:52 PM   #34
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I really just don't see it as practical, sorry.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:07 PM   #35
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Shuckle, that idea is bad and you should feel bad.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:09 PM   #36
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I liked Dave's suggestion earlier of increasing health an energy while keeping off type the same. 6 HBs of health and 9HBs of energy while keeping 1 HB of off type energy would make typespam less effective, while still allowing it. Maybe also make the standard scale x2/x3 instead of x2/x4 as well. I dunno, that's what I think is the best solution.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:12 PM   #37
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My only problem with that is that I feel like it would take too long for battles to finish.

I'd be willing to try out a test battle with 6/9 and x2/x4, though.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:17 PM   #38
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I'll do the test battle to see how it works once I have a slot if you want
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:21 PM   #39
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I'll do the test battle to see how it works once I have a slot if you want
Well, it wouldn't be an official league match, though. It would be an exhibition match, since it would be testing out something new. And I'd call dibs on battling Big in that match.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:32 PM   #40
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> If you're anything like me, you probably forget five minutes after you've sent it too.

And here I thought I was the only one. I love you sometimes, Concept.

Also, I think Jeri has officially coerced me to the dark side of 1.5/3
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:43 PM   #41
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If it happens it'll be a while from now and I'll pick battlers when that time comes.

> Also, I think Jeri has officially coerced me to the dark side of 1.5/3

Glad to hear my powers of coercion are still effective. ;D
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:54 PM   #42
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well, when it's someone as cute as you, Jeri...
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:57 PM   #43
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:59 PM   #44
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If it happens it'll be a while from now and I'll pick battlers when that time comes.D
All right then, sounds good Jeri.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:02 PM   #45
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Just like Mozz and children, Kairne and Jeri are two things we shouldn't be leaving alone together.

Despite that, I may be considering trying 1.5x/3x, just to see how it feels.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:37 AM   #46
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So we decided on being sensible and using 1.5x/3x?
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:46 AM   #47
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If baton passing etc. to typespam is annoying you could always restrict the amount of baton passes, volt switches and u turns you can use per battle. This is if it's becoming that much of an issue but I like the 0.25/0.5/1/1.5/2 scale.
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I think i catch my typos but i keep typoing my typos so then i just dont even bother trying toc rrecty them because i will jeust keep typoing forever

edit: also any kids reading this dont drink it fucks u pyour brannreal bad
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:51 AM   #48
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Or we could get some stricter rules for switching and make Switch=KO not a thing.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:55 AM   #49
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Or switching takes some health away, whether you are baton passing or switching.
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I think i catch my typos but i keep typoing my typos so then i just dont even bother trying toc rrecty them because i will jeust keep typoing forever

edit: also any kids reading this dont drink it fucks u pyour brannreal bad
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:53 AM   #50
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Guys stop trying to ruin my precious switching ;;
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