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Old 08-02-2007, 08:39 PM   #1
Talon87
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Socialite Reina Differences

You might want to check out the discussion in this thread ( http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=21800 ) beginning with the post here ( http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.ph ... ostcount=7 ).

Now ... if you read all that, you can tell that we are trying to figure out why Socialite Reina for some people maxes out at Level 60 and awards them a maximum of $24000 per battle (like me) and why she maxes out at Level 40 and awards $16000 for other people (like Hubologist). The people who have replied to the thread so far seem split down the middle, and the following theories have all been debunked:

- Maybe it matters based on the number of stars your Trainer Card has? WRONG!
- Maybe it matters how many times you've beaten the Elite 4 (assuming you've beaten them at least once already)? WRONG!
- Maybe it matters how many times you've faced Tower Tycoon Palmer? WRONG!
- Maybe it matters how many times you fight Reina? WRONG! (meaning that the Stuck-at-Level-40 folks have fought her enough times already; she should have been at Level 60 by now)
- Maybe it's different between Diamond and Pearl? WRONG!
- Maybe it matters whether you have Emerald in your GBA slot when you fight her? WRONG!
- Maybe it matters how many Pokemon you've seen? WRONG!
- Maybe it matters how many Pokemon you've caught? WRONG!
- How long you've owned the game? WRONG!

And so on and so forth. We just can't seem to find the answer. So I was wondering, have any of you experienced this problem yourselves and found the answer somewhere? I am going to go onto Smogon right now and search for the answer, but any help you guys can provide would be much quicker and very much appreciated.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:48 PM   #2
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Hmm, the answer appears to be that you need to catch Heatran. So, case closed. Sorry for the spam. :p

That stated ... found something else out which may be of interest to you guys ... http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.p ... stcount=47

Apparently, there are infinite Reaper Cloths after all!?!?!?!? If this is true and not just some stupid rumor, w007 w007, people can get spare Reaper Cloths and not need to worry about saving their ingame-one for the mythical "perfect Dusclops I hope to find some day."

Now, if only somebody could prove that the same was true for the Magmortizer at Fuego Ironworks and the Electrizer at the Valley Windmills ... we'd be set.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:56 PM   #3
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

That explains quite a bit. I need to catch Heatran then. But dammit, I hate catching Legends >>;;

They're always more trouble then they're worth.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:09 PM   #4
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Heatran's not too bad, actually. His SpAtt is 130 and his Att is 90. However, of the four moves he has, only one has STAB and uses SpAtt: Lava Plume (80 power). The other three moves are either physical (Iron Head, 80 power + STAB) or are special but lack STAB (Earth Power, 90 power) or are horseshit (Fire Spin).

Because he's Fire/Steel, you should be able to place an Earthquake on somebody that will hurt him. Since he's post-E4, you can import Dugtrio or somebody else and make him strong enough (but not too strong) to wittle Heatran down. You also have the wonderful luxury of approaching Heatran with a Pokemon who is resistant to fire, immune to ground, and resistant to steel: Gyarados. I know how much you love him, and you should have one lying around on at least one of your gamepaks.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:11 PM   #5
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Hmm, the answer appears to be that you need to catch Heatran. So, case closed. Sorry for the spam. :p

That stated ... found something else out which may be of interest to you guys ... http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.p ... stcount=47

Apparently, there are infinite Reaper Cloths after all!?!?!?!? If this is true and not just some stupid rumor, w007 w007, people can get spare Reaper Cloths and not need to worry about saving their ingame-one for the mythical "perfect Dusclops I hope to find some day."

Now, if only somebody could prove that the same was true for the Magmortizer at Fuego Ironworks and the Electrizer at the Valley Windmills ... we'd be set.
Man, just GTS clone all the Reaper cloth's you want, or you can make an offer on my sexy sexy Dusknoir =D
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:16 PM   #6
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

I hatch catching Legends because they usually have a shit Nature or crap for IVs. Then I reset and catch them again, wasting my whole day catching a legend and typing numbers into an IV Calculator. I still haven't caught Raqyquaza, Kyogre, or Groudon in EM. I wouldn't have caught Dialga if it weren't necessary. Same for Groudon in Ruby.

Waste of a day.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:23 PM   #7
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Heatran is shit worthless imo. 4x weakness to ground, 2x weakness to water, speed of 77, SpAtt of 130. He's outclassed by Azelf, pretty much. Slightly better defenses, but it's not those you'd be pumping anyway; and his moveset is entirely conducive to him being a sweeper, which means you wouldn't be planning on optimizing his defenses (BOTH of them) anyway.

He has the moves of a sweeper, but the stats of a tank. Sort of broken that way, and I don't mean "broken" in a good way.

I guess Magma Storm is a pretty cool move (120 base, 70% acc, "traps foe"), but $10 says we'll see it one of the fire starters from Gens 1-4 by the time Gen 5 comes out. (Happened to Eruption, it'll happen to Magma Storm, I have no doubt.)
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:42 PM   #8
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Heatran is shit worthless imo. 4x weakness to ground, 2x weakness to water, speed of 77, SpAtt of 130. He's outclassed by Azelf, pretty much. Slightly better defenses, but it's not those you'd be pumping anyway; and his moveset is entirely conducive to him being a sweeper, which means you wouldn't be planning on optimizing his defenses (BOTH of them) anyway.
Fucking rofl. I bet you think TTar is useless because of a 4x Fighting weak.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:43 PM   #9
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Heatran is a good counter for certain Pokemon. I think Weezings with Fireblast/Flamethrower and Will-O-Wisp get totally le fucked by it, easily getting KOed by it's myriad of special attacks. It's apparently capable of 2HKOing max HP/min SPDEF TTars and Rhyperiors even with Sandstorm on the field with Earth Power and can 1HKO Garchomp and Salamence with Dragon Pulse. Also, it can apparently survive 2 of Specsmence's Draco Meteor is there's no Spikes or Stealth Rock, but probably dies to Hydro Pump.

Also, Lava Plume is seen as the Fire/Burn version of Discharge. They're good cause of the 30% chance of burning/paralyzing on top of base 80 power, which isn't awful- not amazing, but not awful.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:50 PM   #10
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Tyranitar isn't outclassed by any other Sandstreamers; Heatran is outclassed by other Pokemon of his calibre (legendary), his ability, and his stat pool. I'm not saying he's "shit", I'm saying he's "shit worthless" as in, "no matter how you would want to use a Heatran, there is always somebody much better." I guess you could argue for him being a Jack of All Trades, but I think that's pushing it.

If you want a legendary special sweeper, Azelf is better. If you want a legendary tank, Giratina is better. There are also ample non-legendary Special Sweepers and Tanks who do their job better than Heatran could, in spite of his special attack and defenses.

His typing, unlike Tyranitar, is more hindrance than help. Tyranitar suffers a 4x weakness to fighting but (a) is prepared to counter it, (b) gets a SpDef buff from Sandstream, and (c) makes great use of his elements with STABbing moves. Heatran has no good special Steel attacks. Also, Fire/Steel is about as bad as Electric/Steel was for Magnemite. It's not nearly the sex machine than Psychic/Steel is nor what Dark/Steel would be if Game Freak would spoil us with it. I'd much sooner have a Metagross on my team than a Heatran, and if you're going to be using them to attack, well, then they occupy very similar roles.

It's true that Heatran may scare away a Fire Blast-toting Weezing, but that's pretty much it. You're telling me you'd put Heatran on your team to deal with one Pokemon who isn't Blissey, who isn't Wobbuffet, who isn't Deoxys, who isn't Azelf, who isn't as common as over 10 other ubers and UUs I could list off? I mean, if you're that concerned about Weezing, that's your prerogative, but ... I think we're being too argumentative here "for the sake of winning an argument" and losing sight of the reality: that putting Heatran on your team "just in case" isn't a very solid case for him over Metagross.

Also, Metagross has got Zen Headbutt now, which actually makes me wonder if I wouldn't like to try this on for size ...

Metagross @ Scope Lens ... or maybe King's Rock ... and then there's always Choice Band ...
- Zen Headbutt (Psychic)
- Meteor Mash (Steel)
- Earthquake (Ground)
- Hammer Arm (Fighting)
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:20 PM   #11
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Girtana is actually a pretty bad legendary tank due to his typing being weak to everything that ubers typically use as counters to other ubers, namely: Dark, Ghost, Dragon, and Ice. Also, he's uber while Heatran isn't, so it's not of the same caliber.

Azelf is actually countered by Heatran, as most sport Psychic, Flamethrower, and Grass Knot- none of which hurt Heatran to any real degree. Even with Thunderbolt, Heatran can easily KO an Azelf with almost any Fire attack.

Anyway, the way you talk you're basically saying, "Heatran is unusable because someone else is better at it," when that's not 100% true. His resistances are unique and despite his weaknesses, is easily usable in OU.

Zen Headbutt on Metagross is pretty much for Gengar, as Psychic gives very little coverage. Leftovers or Life Orb is definitely better then Scope Lens or King's Rock. Especially since you're not sporting Agility on this Metagross, thus making flinch pretty uncommon. "Oh no! Snorlax was flinched by Metagross!"
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:22 PM   #12
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Good call(s).
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:43 PM   #13
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
Tyranitar isn't outclassed by any other Sandstreamers; Heatran is outclassed by other Pokemon of his calibre (legendary)
Legendaries are not equal with each other. Comparing Heatran with Giratina is silly when they're not even in the same competitive tier. And Tyranitar isn't outclassed by any other Sandstreamer by the simple virtue that the only other Sandstreamer (Hippowdon) is a defensive tank (versus the more offensively-oriented Ttar).

Quote:
If you want a legendary special sweeper, Azelf is better.
Unlike Heatran, however, Azelf has trouble actually getting into play without taking fuckloads of damage, especially with dark types running amok.

Quote:
If you want a legendary tank, Giratina is better.
Which is kind of like arguing Cresselia sucks because Lugia is better. Giratina will never be an OU Pokemon so this is a non-argument.

Quote:
There are also ample non-legendary Special Sweepers and Tanks who do their job better than Heatran could, in spite of his special attack and defenses.
Eh, not really. Heatran has a lot of things going in his favor:
1. He's still a steel type, which gives him a whopping 12 resists with Flash Fire. Half of those resists are for 1/4 damage or immune. Coupled with his defenses that gives him a much better chance to come into play compared to other sweepers.
2. He can declare Jihad (explosion), which means that Blissey walling him is a risky proposition. This isn't unique among special sweepers, but it's uncommon enough to be notable.
3. A choice scarf modest Heatran with max speed EVs hits 379 which allows it to outrun all but a small group of Pokemon, most of whom will probably not hang around to try their luck. A 77 speed isn't the best, but it's certainly workable: Heracross and Medicham are huge offensive threats even though their base speeds are 85 and 80, respectively. Hell, Tyranitar himself is, like, 61 or something.

Quote:
His typing, unlike Tyranitar, is more hindrance than help. Tyranitar suffers a 4x weakness to fighting but (a) is prepared to counter it,
Not unless you run into the rare Cursetar or something. Most fighting Pokemon can usually OHKO Ttar with a moderately powered fighting attack (BP 60+) unless it's packing a ridiculous number of defense EVs. Add onto that the fact that fighting types have gotten better and the ridiculous Close Combat, and it's not good news for the GSC 600 BST Poke.
Quote:
(b) gets a SpDef buff from Sandstream
Which is helpful, but a lot of Ttar's counters don't come at him from the special end anyway.

Quote:
(c) makes great use of his elements with STABbing moves.
Most Ttar don't even run Crunch, so your Average Ttar is making as much use of its STAB as an average Heatran is.

Quote:
Heatran has no good special Steel attacks.
It gets Flash Cannon, which is roughly as good as special Steel attacks go. It's not like steel is used for its offensive typing anyway.

Quote:
It's not nearly the sex machine than Psychic/Steel is nor what Dark/Steel would be if Game Freak would spoil us with it.
Some typings are better than others? O rly?

Quote:
I'd much sooner have a Metagross on my team than a Heatran, and if you're going to be using them to attack, well, then they occupy very similar roles.
Except Metagross is a physical attacker and Heatran is a special attacker. That's a fairly large difference.

Quote:
It's true that Heatran may scare away a Fire Blast-toting Weezing, but that's pretty much it. You're telling me you'd put Heatran on your team to deal with one Pokemon who isn't Blissey, who isn't Wobbuffet, who isn't Deoxys, who isn't Azelf, who isn't as common as over 10 other ubers and UUs I could list off? I mean, if you're that concerned about Weezing, that's your prerogative, but ... I think we're being too argumentative here "for the sake of winning an argument" and losing sight of the reality: that putting Heatran on your team "just in case" isn't a very solid case for him over Metagross.
Heatran can counter a lot more than just Weezing, since fire attack/Dragon Pulse/Earth Power lets him hit pretty much everything in the game for at least neutral damage and the aforementioned 12 resists let him switch in easily against a lot of sweepers (Heatran pretty much beats CSmence for free if it comes in on anything but Hydro Pump and walls Salamence's physical/mixed sets unless they carry Earthquake, for instance).
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:10 AM   #14
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Huh, didn't know this. I was battling her yesterday before I caught Heatran and only getting 16,000. I'll have to go back today and try it out. xd
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Old 08-03-2007, 07:48 AM   #15
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoise
Most Ttar don't even run Crunch, so your Average Ttar is making as much use of its STAB as an average Heatran is.
What? Crunch on TTar is sexy time.
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:24 AM   #16
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Pursuit is way sexier.
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:28 AM   #17
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Until you get out predicted and don't switch out.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:05 AM   #18
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Most targets of Pursuit usually get KOed whether they run or not. And even if they survive the first hit, most can't hurt a TTar that much to not die to a second Pursuit.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:48 AM   #19
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Well Pursuit has it's uses, sure. But I like Crunch as the standard "Im gonna put the hurt on whatever you fking put out". Ideally you bring out TTar to something weak to dark but you cant always get what you want.
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:40 PM   #20
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Huh, it was true. xD That's quite weird, why would having a Pokemon affect the amount of money? Oo;
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Old 08-03-2007, 01:43 PM   #21
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

I assume it's some kind of marker of progress: ie, if you needed money and had a few Lv.30s, it wouldn't be that hard to take down a Lv.40 a few times, but if it were to go to Lv.60 all of a sudden, you might have problems or something.

Or I have no idea and I'm rambling on right now.
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Old 08-03-2007, 02:51 PM   #22
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

I also think it's a marker like S_M said (they don't want you to "be stuck" fighting Pokemon you're not ready to fight yet if the trainers were to auto-upgrade on you too quickly), but it would have really been nice for GameFreak to program that part of the game better. I still hate Stark Mountain for so many little reasons, and any one of them would have been an easy fix for GameFreak to do, both with the original game *and* with our American/European ports ...

1 - Make it so that we can fly to the base of the mountain. I fucking hate having to bike there every time from the Beauty Salon to the sandy desert area to the patch of grass right beneath the mountain. Why the fuck couldn't we have been able to fly to the house that the 4th gym leader comes out of the first time you go there?

2 - Make it so that, after capturing Heatran, Buck shows up at his grandfather's home again. It's so fucking retarded: he goes to slay the dragon, he never comes home, we slay the dragon, we go back to his grandpa's house, and his grandpa just calmly says, "Oh? So Heatran was the cause? Cool." DON'T YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE THE FUCK YOUR GRANDSON IS? :x Did he get eaten? Is he on other adventures? I mean ... wtf, old man. -_-;

3 - Allow you to keep the stone Buck removed from Mt. Stark. I mean, think about it. You defeated Heatran, right? So there's no reason to leave the stone behind. Its purpose (of sealing Heatran away) is irrelevant. So ... why not keep it as a memento? It just doesn't make any sense that we put the stone back ... but still went ahead and relocated Heatran to a PokéBall.
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Old 08-03-2007, 08:33 PM   #23
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuande
2 - Make it so that, after capturing Heatran, Buck shows up at his grandfather's home again. It's so fucking retarded: he goes to slay the dragon, he never comes home, we slay the dragon, we go back to his grandpa's house, and his grandpa just calmly says, "Oh? So Heatran was the cause? Cool." DON'T YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE THE FUCK YOUR GRANDSON IS? :x Did he get eaten? Is he on other adventures? I mean ... wtf, old man. -_-;
He's in the Double Battle room in the battle tower for you to team with.
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Old 08-03-2007, 08:50 PM   #24
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

Yeah, but he was there before I completed the Heatran process (iirc) and he makes no mention of Heatran whatsoever. Still, I will admit, I did forget about this, so good call.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:00 PM   #25
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Re: Socialite Reina Differences

It doesn't matter if you complete the process as long as you're past the part where you team with him. Every person you team with in game apart from rivals are in there, so if you use that battling option, make sure you rescue the kid in that damned mountain so you get another option.
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