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Old 06-25-2014, 10:18 PM   #2551
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I want to try to get Reqs because involvement but I'm too hilariously bad.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:29 PM   #2552
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Mega Medicham is actually quite scary.

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tough match. My team definitely needs improvement, but I'm reasonably happy with how the whole thing turned out.

Not pleased with Shuckle. Hopefully that burn was a luck kind of thing. Still interested in seeing his place on the team in future.

But man I need me a spinner. My team is weak to Rocks and relies on switching - no bueno.


Mega Medicham is REALLY SCARY

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It was over the minute he led off with Sleep Powder and switched out. Bungle on his part led to a win on mine.


Advice is of course welcome. This is my first team and I'm definitely hoping for advice here.

Defog makes me angry.
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Shuckle's awesomeness level continues to rise.

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Old 06-26-2014, 12:04 AM   #2553
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Shuckle is an interesting Webber, as it doesn't even require the Focus Sash that all others need. Obviously it gives up speed for that though.

As for Defog, there isn't all that much you can do. Taunt is the best way to stop it, other than flat out killing the pokemon with Defog.

I approve of Scolipede - it's really quite great.

EDIT: I haven't mentioned this before, but I find MegaMawile to be quite underwhelming. I've never been swept by one, and I always deal with them easily. MegaMawile may be seen as the most powerful of all the Huge Power/Pure Power pokemon, but frankly I'd take Azumarill or MegaMedicham any day.

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Old 06-26-2014, 08:56 AM   #2554
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My entire team basically revolves around either "give Mega Medicham all the attack" or "take out all the flying types/defoggers/spinners who are not slowed by Sticky Web to an appropriate level." My team is super weak to rocks though.

I'm thinking of maybe including something more threatening for Shuckle, though. I'm liking Toxic/Infestation when it works, but it's just too slow and doesn't work against Steels and Poisons who basically end up with a bunch of free turns to beat you up with the tradeoff that they can't do it with someone else.

The general problem is that even though he is a defensive Pokemon, Shuckle dies quickly to pretty much anything - sweepers can overpower his low HP, and tanks can status him and far outlast him if they carry even 1 offensive move, especially if that move is Seismic Toss.

I think I'm going to try something that isn't Toxic and see how that goes for me. I'll also switch out one of the mons, possibly Cofagrigus, for something a little more defensively scary - the sarcophagus really isn't walling as much as I'd like. I'm torn about Talonflame - he's doing an awesome job right now but my team really needs more bulk and less weakness to Rocks.

I will say that it's really surprising when I pull out an early Talonflame - it's usually a late game sweeper so nobody expects me to use it like a battering ram to crash open the gates before I charge in with Mega Medicham.

Ooh, and recommendations for Megacham? Ice Punch and Bullet Punch really aren't providing the coverage I need in this tier, being non-STAB and whatnot.

(for battle 2, I now realize I should have swapped out very quickly for Thundurus in the battle against Latias - would have prevented Defog and Recover from being things. It's just a shame that you can't always predict a Defogger switch, because the instant you don't it's kill them quickly or get defogg'd.)
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:55 AM   #2555
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The general problem is that even though he is a defensive Pokemon, Shuckle dies quickly to pretty much anything - sweepers can overpower his low HP, and tanks can status him and far outlast him if they carry even 1 offensive move, especially if that move is Seismic Toss.
Although somewhat gimmicky, try Power Split if you have not already. Then lower Shuckle's IVs and everything to give it minimum Attack and Special Attack. It will prevent things from plowing through it unless they have Taunt or something. I used to use a strange set with Sticky Web / Power Split / Encore / Something. It was total Taunt bait, however. And that was back when I even considered Sticky Web.

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Ooh, and recommendations for Megacham? Ice Punch and Bullet Punch really aren't providing the coverage I need in this tier, being non-STAB and whatnot.
If you do not want to be walled by Aegislash, you need Fire Punch to hit it on the switch. Gliscor and Physically defensive Landorus-T are serious threats if you do not have Ice Punch. But if you run both, you lose priority. You may or may not feel the need for priority, with Sticky Web around.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:40 AM   #2556
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I've run Power Split before, it's decent. I'm going for an actually defensive Shuckle though.

I want to use Shuckle for hazards, and Defog is making that difficult; I need an answer to Defog and it just isn't there. Contrary helps somewhat by offering a penalty for using Defog - the evasion boost can be scary if you abuse Defog - but there needs to be something Shuckle can do that makes it really bad for you to make his evasion higher.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:02 AM   #2557
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If such a thing existed, everyone would be using Shuckle and soon no one would bother using Defog anymore. Like any move or strategy, Defog's popularity in OU is a testament to the fact that it has few good "counters" and affords its user far more benefit than it does harm. I sympathize, as I myself am often questing for solutions to the OU features which annoy my team most. But what you're asking for, essentially, is a metagame upheaver.

As Defog is common on Talonflame, Mandibuzz, and some Skarmory, one thing you can do is add two Pokémon to your team who absolutely decimate these three threats. Since Talonflame is the wet paper bag of the trio, anything that doesn't mind incoming Flying and Fire attacks should suffice. Skarmory falls pretty damn easily to any special attacks he doesn't resist, and so focus should probably be placed primarily on Mandibuzz. Basically, you want someone who:
  • eats Flying, Fire, and Dark-type attacks for breakfast
  • can OHKO Talonflame and non-Sturdy Skarmory; can easily 2HKO Mandibuzz or can at least otherwise outwall him
The answer would have used to have been Heatran, but the Gen VI hits to Steel's defenses render Heatran vulnerable to a powerful Knock Off attack from Mandibuzz. Still, I don't think Mandibuzz would enjoy staying in on Heatran, and so Heatran could conceivably be one good answer to your Defog woes. Best of all, Heatran can Stealth Rock himself if you opt to double include it -- meaning that the very same turn you predict the enemy is going to switch out for someone else, you can plop Stealth Rock right back on the field. This would royally bone Talonflame users and would still not be fun for Mandibuzz users. Skarmory users can kinda sorta shrug it off, but eh.

That stated, Empoleon and Gliscor also use Defog. And Heatran's not too crazy about those guys. So, I decided to see what people on Smogon were saying. This guy seems pretty confident in his answers, dated March 2014:
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Furthermore, all the viable Defoggers have viable counters:

Mandibuzz -- itself being fit for stall, but likewise can't get past them, Mega-Venusaur hard walls it. It has Whirlwind though, but poses no threat.
Latios -- Sylveon hard-counters.
Latias -- hard countered by Sylveon, Chansey, Heatran, and Clefable.
Mega Scizor -- walled & whirlwinded by Skarmory. Zapdos too, and can nab an OHKO with Heat Wave. Alomomola can fish for a scald. Quagsire and other bulky waters deal with it very well.
Mew -- stallbreaker mew is a pain the ass, but likewise can be stalled out by Heatran. Magic Coaters screw it up.
Crobat -- Skarmory, of course. Its attacks are pretty weak and weakness to SR means you can put it in a Catch-22 position late-game.
Flygon -- never seen it, so I'm not sure how I'd deal with it. M-Venusaur walls it well, Sylveon does as well. If it lacks stone edge, Togekiss laughs.
Togekiss -- Heatran, Clefable. The Paraflinch set can be troublesome, but Heatran can eventually wear it down.
Zapdos -- itself a stall staple and a general nuisance to bring down. SpDef Hippowdon shits all over it. All other special walls work too.

Basically, no Defoggers can really get past a stall team that easily, and hazards aren't the end-all-be-all of stall anyway. Only set-up sweepers that can feign Defog really stand a chance; anything with Taunt and Defog also does really well, Mandibuzz being the best imo.
So I'm wondering if you were to add someone else to complement Heatran if you might not crack the case for your team. Venusaur? (He stipulates Mega, is the thing.) A Skarmory of your own? Hippowdon? No idea.

Come to think of it, though, if you're not already running Hippowdon, it may be something to consider since Shuckle would appreciate the boost to Special Defense that sand affords him.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:29 AM   #2558
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(Defog is illegal on Talonflame, actually)

Hippowdon looks like a really good bet, actually, if I swap out a couple things. I'm not crazy about getting rid of Scolipede as it can really help Medicham get all set up even in a really bad situation, but I can definitely replace Cofagrigus, Talonflame, and/or Thundurus with more Sandstorm-friendly pokeys.

I was thinking maybe Espeon so that I can predict the Defogs and get her out there accordingly, but I'm not sure what I would want to do with her after that, or even if Magic Bounce can block Defog.

Bah. I liked it better when all you had to do was run a Ghost type. Now you have to counter every Defogger instead of the move Defog.

Maybe I'll just run Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Dazzling Gleam on Sylveon and leave it at that. That takes care of everyone right?
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:37 AM   #2559
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Defog is illegal on Talonflame, actually
*groan + roll eyes* Smoooooooogoooooooon ...
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:03 PM   #2560
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Defog clears all Hazards from the field, so even if you Magic Blunced to would still clear your Sticky Web.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:25 PM   #2561
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Maybe I'll just run Thunderbolt/Flamethrower/Dazzling Gleam on Sylveon and leave it at that. That takes care of everyone right?
It cannot run the former two, and the latter is purely outclassed by Pixilate Hyper Voice, which hits much harder, and ignores Substitutes.

You could run Zapdos + Heatran or something. They cover their weaknesses decently unless you fight something with Gravity. In which case you are in serious trouble.

Specially Defensive Heatran should do well unless Latios has Earthquake.

Mandibuzz: Beaten by Zapdos.
Latios: Taken on fairly well by Heatran unless it has Earthquake.
Latias: Beaten by Heatran? May be a stall war?
Mega Scizor: Beaten by Heatran if it lacks Superpower. Heat Wave from Zapdos also works.
Mew: Dealt with by Heatran. May be a stall war.
Zapdos: You have a Zapdos of your own, and Heatran fares well, too.
Togekiss: Zapdos wins.
Empoleon: Zapdos wins.
Gliscor: Hidden Power Ice from Zapdos wins?
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:29 PM   #2562
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Remember that my sweeper packs Ice Punch and, if you have a stall team, will almost certainly be operating at +2 speed and +2 attack, possibly higher if you mismanage yourself.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:25 PM   #2563
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Does someone want to tell me how on earth Banette failed to do more than 94% HP damage to Jynx? (Random Battle)

Mega Banette:
  • over 300 attack (I forget the exact number it said)
  • base power 40 on Shadow Sneak
  • STAB
Jynx:
  • only 109 physical defense, he said
  • 2x weak to Ghost
So we're talking an effective 120 base power without STAB and without weakness ... coming off of a 300+ Atk and hitting a 109 Def. How on earth does this not OHKO? Even Smogon's damage calculator says:
Quote:
252+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jynx: 384-452 (141.1 - 166.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
when I tell it to look at a Shadow Sneak (not a Shadow Claw; I manually entered Shadow Sneak) being used against a Jynx. Granted, that's with Jynx's EVs elsewhere. So if I give her 90 Def EVs and leave her nature as it is (Timid, which has no impact on this calculation), and if I shift Mega Banette's EVs in Atk to 90 as well, what then?
Quote:
90+ Atk Mega Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 90 Def Jynx: 288-338 (105.8 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only way I see around this is to do everything I just described and to make Mega Banette's nature neutral in Attack (e.g. Serious), and even then:
Quote:
90 Atk Mega Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 90 Def Jynx: 260-308 (95.5 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
The worst case scenario should have dealt 95.5% HP damage. Yet:
Quote:
It's super effective! The opposing Jynx lost 83% of its health!
was what happened instead. What gives?
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:35 PM   #2564
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You may have forgotten to do EVs and natures. I remember you doing that on more than one occasion. Go check in teambuilder.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #2565
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It's like he didn't even read the post. :'D
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:46 PM   #2566
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88 Atk Banette Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 88 Def Jynx: 152-180 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (calced w/ Banette @ lvl 82 & Jynx @ lvl 86)

what I calced wasnt 100% accurate, obviously, but it has to do with the fact that Jynx was at a higher level than Banette. Its part of the reason why randbats are the way they are. Lower Level = less damage
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:01 PM   #2567
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The leeeeeeeeevel. That'd be it.

And please. Don't lecture me on RandBats when I've laddered higher than you ever have.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:36 PM   #2568
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The leeeeeeeeevel. That'd be it.

And please. Don't lecture me on RandBats when I've laddered higher than you ever have.
I wasnt lecturing you... ik ur probably 1000x better than me at randbats.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:46 PM   #2569
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Sorry if that came across as snippy. And thanks again for catching the oversight. I'm still surprised though that Jynx didn't die in one hit, but it looks like it was just a perfect storm of all the little factors that go into making Random Battle different from OU.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:29 PM   #2570
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Trying out some UU

So with all the RU, OU, and Randbats I've been doing, I figured giving UU a shot wouldn't be horrible. I immediately knew I wanted Sticky Web, as it allows for me to play with some pokemon that are on the slower side. It's mostly HO with Florges as an all-purpose Cleric and Sponge. Entei is pretty great with a set of Sacred Fire/Extremespeed/Stone Edge/Iron Head. Once Krookodile gets going he can be very difficult to take down. Porygon-Z hits like a truck (the day they give him Boomburst...). I've been tempted and really want to try using a Swords Dance set for Empoleon (Earthquake/Drill Peck/Waterfall) but I'm afraid that it would have lackluster results, so right now I have it as a bulky special sweeper, and it's good. It can take down most all dragons (even Kingdra) with little trouble.
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:14 PM   #2571
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>it was a random battle

OH I THOUGHT IT WAS UU

I DIDN'T EVEN QUESTION IT WTF
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:06 AM   #2572
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Casually alternating between VGC 2014, Random Battle, and occasionally OU. Here's my most recent battle, a Random Battle which completed in 25 turns.

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What's remarkable about this battle is how well but modestly my team worked together. Like, I don't mean to say that they have awesome synergy necessarily ... but at least in this particular match, the team really played together rather than playing as six independent creatures; and they did it in ways that weren't that flashy, in ways that might not have seemed to be that big of a deal but which clearly were in the end given the final score. For example, Audino was there to help Roserade heal; Whimsicott was there to ensure Toxicroak a free turn to set up Swords Dance and earlier to stall out Trick Room; Toxicroak helped, in luring out the Pokémon least vulnerable to his attacks (who were incidentally the ones least vulnerable to Roserade's attacks as well), in setting the stage for Roserade to sweep the remainder; so on and so forth.

Aside from that, it was a fairly ordinary battle. You might even find it boring to watch. ^^; It lacks the flash and the power of more popular battles. Well, Toxicroak brings some power to the table. Toxicroak fans should at least appreciate that.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:12 PM   #2573
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200+ turns and only 1 pokemon KOed.

A challenger of our league, even though he is an old member, E4 battle. His stall team vs my steels. Latios' Draco Meteor is what broke the balance. But man, that took forever.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:23 PM   #2574
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200+ turns and only 1 pokemon KOed.

A challenger of our league, even though he is an old member, E4 battle. His stall team vs my steels. Latios' Draco Meteor is what broke the balance. But man, that took forever.
It broke for me on Turn 236. But seriously, wtf. I can't believe you guys made it to Turn 236 and the score was still just 6-5. That's insane.
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:18 PM   #2575
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> King's Shield

Ahahaha what crack was Gamefreak smoking when it invented this.
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