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Old 06-24-2014, 11:31 PM   #2501
Mew The Gato
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>Offensive Deoxys-D

Myles Fowl II, look at it this way. Let us say you are checking Greninja's stats for the first time. You notice it has excellent Speed, along with decent mixed offensive stats, but poor defenses. Will you:

- Take advantage of Greninja's offensive prowess and Protean in conjunction with its Speed to assault opponents?
- Try to make up for its low defenses by giving it defensive items, EVs, etc. to make it a "balanced" threat?

The former, I hope. As an offensive Pokemon, Greninja has potential, due to having Protean. Its decent mixed offenses only make it harder to wall. On the other hand, Greninja is obviously outclassed by countless Pokemon as a tank or wall. By trying to make up for its poor defenses, one would neglect its offensive potential. That shall not make it a threat both offensively and defensively. That shall not mean it can take hits and strike back harder. In reality, that shall make it a master of none - a Pokemon that cannot do anything well. Now, I am not saying you would do this, or anything. This is just an example. Greninja may not be the best example, either.

Similarly, why would you use Deoxys-D offensively, when you can use it for other purposes? Deoxys-D has excellent defensive stats, although a poor HP hinders it. It is also quite fast for such a defensive Pokemon. It can set up Spikes, which is not that common. It can unleash fast Taunts. All of these give it an advantage over many other defensive Pokemon. This gives you an actual reason to choose Deoxys-D above something like Cresselia, as mentioned somewhere. On the offensive side, however, it is outclassed. Things like Espeon are not only faster and can set up as well, they hit much, much harder. (Not saying Espeon is extremely good outside Baton Pass.) An outclassed Pokemon is inferior to the one that outclasses it, which means you have no reason to use the outclassed Pokemon for the exact same purpose if the Pokemon that outclasses it can be used.

Basically, playing your Pokemon's strengths is usually going to be better than making up for the things the Pokemon is weak in. Again, not saying you do or will do any of these things.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:32 PM   #2502
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I'm guessing that MegaEvos are different ranks (or they haven't factored it in yet) because MegaSceptile is NOT going to be NU.
They won't have factored it in yet- The games don't release for a long time, and thus MegaScep technically still doesn't 'exist'. Also we still don't know his stats, so I guess that's something.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:34 PM   #2503
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Magius is NU, which I think is appropriate. Gen V she was teetering on the edge of RU and probably would have dropped had Gen VI not come out.
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Old 06-24-2014, 11:44 PM   #2504
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In case you guys didn't see it:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads...nking.3506500/
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:28 AM   #2505
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>Shuckle at S Rank.

Okay let's be honest here. Who would've thought that this guy would ever be viable for anything? Seriously? It's amazing how one move made him go from the ultimate gimmick to a top tier threat.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:34 AM   #2506
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>Shuckle and Delphox in S Rank

Today was a good day.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:39 AM   #2507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
>Shuckle at S Rank.

Okay let's be honest here. Who would've thought that this guy would ever be viable for anything? Seriously? It's amazing how one move made him go from the ultimate gimmick to a top tier threat.
>Top Tier threat

I wouldn't call him that XD He's just the Deo-D of the lower tiers, trading in Speed and offense and taunt and [a whole bunch of other things] for Sticky web, probably the worst hazard in the game. I think S rank is very generous because it implies that his entire viability isn't just on one set.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:47 AM   #2508
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>Top Tier threat

I wouldn't call him that XD He's just the Deo-D of the lower tiers, trading in Speed and offense and taunt and [a whole bunch of other things] for Sticky web, probably the worst hazard in the game. I think S rank is very generous because it implies that his entire viability isn't just on one set.
I really don't think Sticky Web can be compared to the other hazards. It's not at all the same.

While Stealth Rocks and Spikes (and to an extent, toxic spikes) can decimate teams, Sticky Web allows for otherwise slow pokemon to outspeed and sweep. Stealth Rock rarely makes sweeping much easier. Sure, it can break Sturdy/Focus Sash/Multiscale and weaken pokemon, but if the sweeper can't get a hit in it's all for naught. Take Darmanitan for example. Darmanitan is held back by subpar defenses only bolstered by subpar speed. If it can outspeed (without the use of Choice Scarf) it becomes a quite potent sweeper. Stealth Rock would in no way help Darmanitan other than breaking the previously listed things, and even then Dragonite could KO with EQ or whatever pokemon had the Sash could KO or severely weaken Darmanitan.

It's like comparing Toxic and Thunder Wave.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:32 AM   #2509
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>NU Beta

Feraligatr, Lanturn, Granbull

This doesn't seem right. Lanturn was a premiere wall in RU last gen, and there really aren't any new threats to it. There's no reason for it to drop in usage.

Sheer Force Feraligatr is nothing to scoff at. It was one of the most fearsome sweepers last gen. Again, I don't see any new threats coming in to knock it down.

Granbull, if anything, is now immensely better than it was last gen. How could it not be in at least RU?

EDIT: Okay I found this thread that has conflicting info regarding Sceptile.
Lanty can be enough of a wall to give an IV'd Greninja problems. I remember having to score like 3 crits on Dark Pulse to bring that sucker down.
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244) While not FORBIDDEN, my Midnight is to keep in mind that using an army of animated skeletons in order to fill the town square with a rendition of "Spooky Scary Skeletons" is going to be considered odd at best.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:39 AM   #2510
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>Shuckle at S Rank.

Okay let's be honest here. Who would've thought that this guy would ever be viable for anything? Seriously? It's amazing how one move made him go from the ultimate gimmick to a top tier threat.
Yo don't hate. Shuckle was a star on my DPP NU Sand team. That team was actually really, really good too. Well in comparison to the other players on Pokemon Lab anyway, none of whom you'd really consider elite battlers. But still.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:14 AM   #2511
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Remember: Don't fuckle with Shuckle
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Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Things One Is Not Allowed To Do In Exalted
244) While not FORBIDDEN, my Midnight is to keep in mind that using an army of animated skeletons in order to fill the town square with a rendition of "Spooky Scary Skeletons" is going to be considered odd at best.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:23 AM   #2512
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My problem with things like Shuckle is that the pokemon I use HAVE to have offensive potential. I hated Klefki because it didn't, I refuse to use Chansey or Blissey, but will gladly use Tangrowth or Togekiss or Ferrothorn. The we least wall I will use offensively is probably Jellicent.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:26 AM   #2513
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I'm getting a vibe that Ferrothorn has offensive potential from that post. Do clue me in if I'm not misreading, I rarely see a Ferrothorn not walling in my part of the tier and considering I'm going to try laddering when I come back I'd like to mix it up.
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Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Things One Is Not Allowed To Do In Exalted
244) While not FORBIDDEN, my Midnight is to keep in mind that using an army of animated skeletons in order to fill the town square with a rendition of "Spooky Scary Skeletons" is going to be considered odd at best.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:40 AM   #2514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles Fowl II View Post
I'm getting a vibe that Ferrothorn has offensive potential from that post. Do clue me in if I'm not misreading, I rarely see a Ferrothorn not walling in my part of the tier and considering I'm going to try laddering when I come back I'd like to mix it up.
Base 94 attack allows him to hit hard with Power Whip/Gyro Ball, even when uninvested.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:10 AM   #2515
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Noted.

So I wanted to test the viability of that whole argument from yesterday. If there are two support type moves Deo D can't live without, what are they?
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Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Things One Is Not Allowed To Do In Exalted
244) While not FORBIDDEN, my Midnight is to keep in mind that using an army of animated skeletons in order to fill the town square with a rendition of "Spooky Scary Skeletons" is going to be considered odd at best.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:35 AM   #2516
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Spikes, Taunt, Seismic Toss
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Zelphon - Today at 5:29 AM
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:42 AM   #2517
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[The Sorcerer's Ambition]A handy link, to be sure.
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Shuckle's awesomeness level continues to rise.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:46 AM   #2518
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My First RU battle this gen

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So, I added a Virizion shortly after this battle because the Rhyperior and Water weaknesses were aplenty. Luckily, Doublade is a saint and was able to save me from the certain doom that was Clawitzer.


Please feel free to criticize the team in any and all ways possible, as it's been awhile since I've battled using Smogon!Rules, versus VGC. ^^;/
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:54 AM   #2519
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Dark Pulse Moltres.

Why Dark Pulse? What does it help hit?

I'm confused.
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If the current political climate has taught me anything
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:55 AM   #2520
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Moltres doesn't learn Dark Pulse. Take a look at his other remaining Pokémon.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:55 AM   #2521
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What Dave said~
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:37 PM   #2522
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Dangit Zoroark, you dun goofed me again
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If the current political climate has taught me anything
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:13 PM   #2523
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Tried a few games against Kyro just for fun. Threw a quick team of RU and NU Pokés together and ... 0-5 for the first game, 0-4 for the second. ^^; I was plagued by the sorts of problems you'd expect from scores like those:
  • always going second when I needed to go first, allowing Kyro to be the one to snag the important OHKOs instead of me
  • not having good answers to priority attacks
  • being on the losing end of switching wars
The last one was pretty big in both games. The order would go:
  • me whatever, him Doublade or Delphox
  • I switch in Clawitzer, I eat an attack no problem
  • he switches in Virizion, eats an attack of mine no problem
  • I can't possibly stay put ... and he takes the completely free turn to Calm Mind
Even if I would have stayed put for the Ice Beam, he'd still have gone before me and he'd still have gotten his 1.5x SpDef boost up before I could hit him. It sucked. So ... my team pretty much had a glaring "loses to Virizion :'D" weakness to it that needs to be patched before I can expect to beat Kyro or any other Virizion users in the tier. While his ostensible MVP was Doublade (who snagged the most KOs by far), Doublade got to work his magic because of Virizion's efforts.

Sticky Web, why must you have such shit distribution in the lower tiers? T_T I understand why you have poor distribution in OU -- and it should probably remain that way -- but why must you only show up on Shuckle, Leavanny, Kricketune, and Ariados in RU? Ariados, man. Have you seen those defenses + speed? -_-; Ugh.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:21 PM   #2524
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My RU team's virgin battle

Disclaimer: This battle isn't to show how good it is, I'm battling a complete newblet. It's just to show the general purpose of the team.

As much as Aromatisse is fugly her ass is just unmovable.
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Zelphon - Today at 5:29 AM
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:27 PM   #2525
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Ok, so I've got an idea for some of the future ladder quest squad. Any mons you habe had great runs with and their sets?
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Quote:
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Quoth the Honchkrow (nevermore!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Things One Is Not Allowed To Do In Exalted
244) While not FORBIDDEN, my Midnight is to keep in mind that using an army of animated skeletons in order to fill the town square with a rendition of "Spooky Scary Skeletons" is going to be considered odd at best.
WF Things
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