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Old 03-17-2012, 03:26 PM   #1
Talon87
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UPN Challenge Cup League

The UPN Challenge Cup League is currently in open beta. We're working out kinks right now. If you'd like to help beta test, sign up below.

Latest batch: March 20, 2012 @ 7:16pm EDT

Have you ever wanted to battle with monsters you don't normally use? Have you ever thought it might be fun to use randomly-assigned creatures in a fight against an opponent? Have you ever wondered what Pokémon Online's CC would be like if the monsters consistently had good movesets?

Well, wonder no longer: because your dreams have become reality! Welcome to the Universal Pokémon Network Challenge Cup League!



The UPN CC League is inspired by Pokémon Online's Challenge Cup format. In the P-O CC, you are randomly assigned six creatures who in turn have randomly assigned movesets and EVs. It's a fun format that pits you against other trainers in a true test of your abilities as a battler. Knowing when to switch and when not to switch, knowing how to successfully bluff (or counter-bluff!) an opponent, and thinking outside the box are all important skills for any Pokémon battle: but they're ones which are especially important in the Challenge Cup.

But one common complaint that even we lovers of the Challenge Cup format have had about it is, "Man , I sure do wish that the creatures had better movesets." We don't mind the random nature of some of the movesets but in some cases it's just ridiculous. Like when you get a Starmie without a single water, electric, ice, or utility move. Or like when you get a Blissey who only knows physical attacks. So we thought, "If P-O won't bring our dream CC to us, then we'll bring our dream CC to them ... " And so the UPN CC League was born.

How It Works:
In brief (details below in spoiler box), we've created competitive movesets for a host of Pokémon. First, you'll need to get the boxes from me. Then, you need to RNG to determine your teams. And then you fight! Pretty simple, right? It is. So don't be frightened by the wall of text below. XP It's only long because I'm holding your hand every step of the way explaining to you how this system works.

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We're creating competitive movesets for ~every Pokémon, starting with the ones we most want to see in the format and working our way down from there. It's a half-random, half-logic guided process that has seen us create 104 monsters so far. Most of the movesets are at least partly inspired by Smogon, but a good number of those have been tweaked to better suit the needs of a random format like the Challenge Cup. And there are quite a few Pokemon who have completely homebrew movesets, too! Some of your favorites from past tournaments have returned, including Red's Pikachu a.k.a. Animechu, Cynthia's Miracle Miro the Milotic, and the Amazing Daisy's Yanmega, Violet. You'll have fun battling with these and many more!

But how do you get these fun playtoys? Well, the first step is to get the boxes from here (click). These are copies of the master box data we're using during the beta testing. The creatures are arranged in a certain order (explained below) with each one's spot representing the number which represents them during the team assignment process. What you'll want to do is, you'll want to find where Pokémon Online is storing your box files. Then, you'll want to move/copy the files I gave you into that folder. This will create the boxes for you automatically in P-O. (You will need to exit out of the Team Builder and then go back in for them to show up, but you should not have to log out of the program entirely.)

In order to determine teams, what you then do with a friend who also has the files is:
  1. Find a random number generator of your choosing. We suggest Random.org's Integer RNG.
  2. Input the upper limit as the total number of Pokemon in your project files. So for example, let's assume that you both have the latest files and that there are 94 monsters inside. You'll want to set the upper bound to 104 then.
  3. If you're using the link we recommended, you'll want to put 20 (or some other number which is arbitrarily larger than 12 without being too large) into the first box that says "Generate [___________] random integers." You'll want to put that same number divided by 2 into the final box, the one that says "Format in [_______] columns." So for example, if you picked 20 before, you'll want to put 10 here.
  4. Generate your random numbers! If you're using our recommended method, the first row of numbers represents Player 1's team while the second row of numbers represents Player 2's team. Pick the first six unique numbers, skipping over repeats, and there's the team roster! So for example ...

    72 103 57 26 8 17 9 78 3 27
    60 17 63 97 63 102 4 102 44 3

    For this data set, Player 1's team should be, in order, 72, 103, 57, 26, 8, and 17. Player 2's team should be, in order, 60, 17, 63, 97, 102, and 4. (We skip over the second 63 while retaining the first.) It's because of the possibility for repeats that I recommend putting a number larger than 12 into that first box. I choose 20 arbitrarily, but 16 or 18 would probably work just fine as well.
  5. Copy and paste the first row for Player 1 and the second row for Player 2. Common etiquette is:
    • If you're reffing for two other people, you PM each of them their lists privately. This way they can each enjoy the element of surprise that comes with true CC battles!
    • If you're playing with one other person and had to do the RNGing yourself, you publically post both rows. Neither play ought to investigate what the other person has , but at the very least allowing your opponent to have the same opportunity to do so as you is the polite thing to do.
Then what you do is you go into your boxes and you withdraw each of the Pokemon you were assigned in the order they were assigned to you. In the spirit of true CC, this is important: you mustn't alter who your lead is! Say for example you have Ninjask on your team but he is not your lead. Too bad! Say for example you a late game sweeper on your team but he is in the lead position. Too bad! Withdraw the team members in the order they appear. Your opponent will be doing the very same thing.

So how do you know who to withdraw? Well, that's easy. The box slot for each creature represents their number for the purposes of this project. So for example, at the time of writing this post, Mewtwo is currently in the very last slot of the first box, Slot #30, so if you drew a 30 in the lottery, then that means you drew a Mewtwo. You read from top-left to top-right (i.e. across a row first) and work your way down. So for example, Row 1 of Box 1 = #1-10. Row 2 = #11-20. Row 3 = #21-30. Then we move on to Box 2, where Row 1 = #31-40, Row 2 = #41-50, and so on.

NOTE: Box slots WILL shift around during beta testing! It is a poor idea to commit to memory which numbers go with which creatures. For example, I would not encourage you to assume "30 = Mewtwo". That may be accurate at the time of this writing, but it will probably be wrong as soon as tomorrow. So don't do that! Always, always, always match your lottery number to the matching box slot and not to a specific creature.

After you have your team all set up, challenge your opponent. You guys determine the rules you want to play with. If you want the genuine CC experience, then you should have every single checklist box empty with one solitary exception: the Species Clause. This is because even in the Challenge Cup proper you never have repeats of the same creature on your team. But aside from that, it's anything goes. If you guys decide between yourselves that you don't like that, then feel free to invent some house rules between yourselves. As for UPN's CC League, we'll figure out what rules stay and what rules go as we beta test. For now, we're keeping the authentic CC experience. It makes certain Pokemon like Venusaur, Jumpluff, and Butterfree very, very good, which in itself lends the meta some flavor you won't find elsewhere!

Last edited by Talon87; 03-20-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:27 PM   #2
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The possibilities for this league are pretty endless. We can do ...
  • Challenge Cup-style battles where you're randomly assigned a team of six every battle
  • Battle Factory-style battles where you go through the Battle Factory, being initially assigned three rental Pokemon and then getting to swap one out after every victory for one of the three Pokémon you just defeated.
  • Draft-style battles where we draw lots to decide who gets first pick and we draft teams for a tournament.
And on and on it goes. I mean, any one of these three has me excited , I dunno about you, but all three!? And more? This has the potential to be very big. And already we've seen during our closed beta testing that it has been an absolute blast to play with randomly-assigned creatures that still have got competitive movesets.

So here's where you come in. We need you. We're looking for people to join the open beta and to help beta test this project with us. Here's what we need:
  • people to contribute Pokémon. This means movesets, EVs, items, natures, the whole shebang. Don't just list off creature names!
  • people to help playtest (this doesn't mean you just play and goof off! XP We want people to offer constructive feedback too!)
Anyone who competed in the Summer 2010 tournament (OU Competitive), the November 2011 tournament (Champion League), or the January 2012 tournament (Monotype) and who is both willing and able to donate their Pokémon to the cause, that would be great.

What we're most looking for right now are not fully evolved Pokémon. That doesn't mean you can't donate fully evolveds too -- you can! and please do! -- but just that we're really sorely in need of more of the little ones. Fully evolveds with shit base stat totals (BSTs) count as not fully evolveds for the purposes of this request.

Note: we reserve the right to modify any and all attributes of the Pokémon you submit. That doesn't mean we're going to do it often. It just means that if we feel your Pokémon is either underperforming or overperforming and that we know of a way to fix that, we reserve the right to implement that change. (For example, the Mewtwo we have right now with Calm Mind, Psystrike, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt has proven almost retardedly too powerful. So we may have to replace Calm Mind for a joke move like Tickle or Quash or something. )
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:29 PM   #3
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Will probably edit in comprehensive creature list here eventually in the event P-O goes down or something. That's a lot of work though. So for now, here's the listing of all the creatures we have by name. Click on either of the links below.

Current list of creatures - NationalDex order - names only

Current list of creatures - alphabetical order - names only

Last edited by Talon87; 03-20-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:36 PM   #4
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Sounds good...I can knock up a few amusing novelty Pokémon (my speciality after Klink!). Wasn't terribly keen when I thought this was totally random using the PO-CC format, but if we have a pool of Pokemon which are varying ability but generally usable then that's very cool.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:24 PM   #5
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I'm interested in multiple ways.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:40 PM   #6
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Alternatively, there's a battle server called Pokemon Showdown that's actually quite popular that already does this. Though it would be cool to compete against all of you. Also, I'd be interested in helping to create competitve movesets if you need them, since I have experience with that.

Last edited by phoopes; 03-17-2012 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoopes View Post
Alternatively, there's a battle server called Pokemon Showdown that's actually quite popular that already does this.
I just looked into this. Here are my thoughts:

1. While it is strictly better than Pokémon Online's Challenge Cup, and while the creatures do have pretty decent movesets and appropriate hold items, I don't think it holds a candle to what we've been making. Also, if we trust that P-O's algorithm for Pokemon levels is correct, then these guys' is way off. I saw Level 95 Ponytas fighting Level 90 Slakings just now. You'd never see that on P-O. This makes me think that, on this site, the weenies are still completely outclassed by the ubers and other Pokemon whose BSTs are 525 or greater. That simply isn't the case with P-O's CC, and it isn't the case with ours either.

2. You can't do a Battle Factory-style thing with this app as it exists currently. You can with our project.

3. You can't do a draft tournament with this app as it exists currently. You can with our project.

I can easily see the two co-existing, but if it were a question of whose would triumph, honestly, I think it'd be ours: or at least, I think it'd be ours until they realized "Oh shit! UPN's doing it better!" and they then plagiarized all of our movesets and levels and copied them over to their site.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:15 PM   #8
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I guess you can count me in.

The one thing I'm not keen on is using NFE mon. I love using NU Pokes like Dunsparce as much as the next guy, but if you pit me with Bulbasaur or Shelgon or any lackluster Pokémon that's completely outclassed by one its evolutionary relatives I just won't enjoy myself (reference: challenge cup).
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:20 PM   #9
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I'd be interested to do this.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:50 PM   #10
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>Talon

Ah, you are right on all accounts here. And like I said before, I'd be happy to provide movesets if you would like assistance.

>Emp

Not all NFEs are bad. Dusclops, Chansey, Rattata, Aron, and Nosepass come to mind immediately.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:53 PM   #11
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Sign me up~ I liked the Smeargle one better but only three people signed up so. Maybe another time.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:44 PM   #12
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I think there may be some confusion due to the dissimilar use of the word "league" in the two thread titles. In November, I created a tournament called the UPN Champion League. This was inspired by a conversation with old-time UPNer AK2 about the Pokémon anime, which has made references in Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova to a Champion League in which the regional champions compete, presumably for the title of Pokémon Master. That thread I made in November was a tournament thread and it outlined rules, teams, etc that were themed around the Champion League. This week, I've unveiled to you the UPN Challenge Cup League. This isn't a thread for any one specific tournament. This is a general-purpose thread for UPN's Challenge Cup League, an actual league we're wanting to create. There's no sign-up involved. The program is still in beta testing. There is no tournament, pending or otherwise, for CC, Battle Factory, or draft yet.
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #13
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I think there may be some confusion due to the dissimilar use of the word "league" in the two thread titles. In November, I created a tournament called the UPN Champion League. This was inspired by a conversation with old-time UPNer AK2 about the Pokémon anime, which has made references in Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova to a Champion League in which the regional champions compete, presumably for the title of Pokémon Master. That thread I made in November was a tournament thread and it outlined rules, teams, etc that were themed around the Champion League. This week, I've unveiled to you the UPN Challenge Cup League. This isn't a thread for any one specific tournament. This is a general-purpose thread for UPN's Challenge Cup League, an actual league we're wanting to create. There's no sign-up involved. The program is still in beta testing. There is no tournament, pending or otherwise, for CC, Battle Factory, or draft yet.
Alright then, this makes more sense. Hmm. The only problem I see is the lack of people. There is a limited number of people on UPN who are active, and about one-third of those are interested in competitive battling. Either we make the League really just an E4 + Champ challenge or we have everyone in the league, vying for position.

...Actually that doesn't sound too bad. We could make it a ranking system rather than a static league.
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:36 PM   #14
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Yeah, a ranking system sounds pretty good actually. Though there is one thing: Would it be just based on just wins and losses like most professional sports leagues, or would who you beat come into play as well?
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:46 PM   #15
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Yeah, a ranking system sounds pretty good actually. Though there is one thing: Would it be just based on just wins and losses like most professional sports leagues, or would who you beat come into play as well?
We could weight the scores based on the rank of your opponent.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:20 PM   #16
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You guys are getting a little carried away. ^_^;

First of all, Shuckle, this is very probably not going to be a hierarchical league with an Elite Four, Gym Leaders, etc. phoopes' comparison with an athletic league is closer to the mark. If you want to draw comparisons with the Pokemon universe, think of everyone in this league as a Pokémon trainer.

Second of all, Challenge Cup is not a hyper-competitive format. Most people who enjoy CC, both here at home and abroad, are very casual. Rivalries may be born, sure. And if/when we end up doing a leaderboard, people will vie for the top spot on it, for sure. But in the end, this is a casual league. This is not a platform for anyone to boast, "har har, I'm the best Pokeyman gamer on UPN. "

Third of all, while a leaderboard does sound nice and league-y, we're in no position to worry about implementing such a thing right now. In fact I would politely ask you to put that out of your mind completely for the next 1-2 months minimum. No one's getting ranked anything right now. What do you think "beta testing" means? It means that this project is still in its infancy. We're still working out kinks, testing things out, and trying to make it so that no one person can win just by virtue of luckily pulling that one Pokémon. Until all the kinks have been worked out, there's absolutely zero merit in ranking people.

Fourth, I'd like to repeat that while rankings are fun, that's really not why you should be here. You should be here to have fun. If CC isn't fun for you, that's fine: not everything can be for everybody. If the only reason you have to join this league is to try and be the best, beat others at their own game, etc, then you've joined the wrong club. To draw a comparison with Magic: the Gathering, I don't envision this league as being akin to Friday Night Magic, let alone Grand Prix, let alone the Pro Tour. I envision this league as being akin to four best friends getting together on a Friday night and busting out their decks for some casual play. You should be cracking up with laughter when you get a Persian with a Rocky Helmet. You should be pumped to try and win with a Choice Banded Weedle. You should find it as amazing as you find it naturally frustrating when after three Dragon Dances your opponent sends out a Sturdy Pokemon who knows Explosion and is holding a Normal Gem. You shouldn't be here for the points: you should be here for the game.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:55 PM   #17
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Courtesy of Kuno's courteous friend, you can now access the files quite easily via the following link: http://talon87.upnetwork.net/ccleague/

First post has been updated with this link.

I may put an HTML file in there to make it look purtier, but for now this actually does the job perfectly: you can see all the files and you can even see when they were last updated. That way you know what you need to redownload if at all!

I will definitely put an HTML file there for the league if:
  1. we eventually have a leaderboard
  2. Daisy makes fanart of some of the legends of UPN CC (she knows of whom I speak! XD)
  3. demand is overwhelming O_o

The current creature count is 122. Firewater PM'd me a bunch of creatures. I've input roughly two-thirds of them so far. I still have some more of them to get to.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:37 PM   #18
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You shouldn't be here for the points: you should be here for the game.
Hm. Okay, sounds fair.

...what, you expected some kind of outburst? Au contraire, mon ami, I am all for casual play. I'm just trying to understand and reconcile the word "League" with what the project is all about. You'll notice that the situations are getting less and less competitive, I hope, as I figure out what's going on.

Short of downloading the files in the link (which isn't working for whatever reason and I can't become motivated enough to try and fix it) or viewing the things in the newest link (which I don't fully understand), how can I find out what Pokemon have already been created? I do use several NU, RU, and UU 'mon that have worked out fine, most notably Shedinja and Venomoth.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:55 PM   #19
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Short of downloading the files in the link (which isn't working for whatever reason and I can't become motivated enough to try and fix it) or viewing the things in the newest link (which I don't fully understand), how can I find out what Pokemon have already been created?
Getting the files:
The files are up. You just click here and then right-click on each of the files and say "Save file as." Or you can left-click on them, load them up in your browser, and then click on your browser's File --> Save Page As menu option and voila: there you go. Click here for very simple instructions on how to save the files to your computer. Click here for instructions on where you need to store the files once you have them. Click here for an explanation about what each of the boxes represent.

Knowing what's been made:
Here. RIGHT HERE. If I were a nastier type, ... well, just be glad I'm not. -_-; If instead of a list of names you wanted the full roster with all the details (moves, natures, abilities, etc), I'll politely grit my teeth and say that you need to learn how to get those box files to work. I'm not about to list out the full roster w/ details tonight for you.

Last edited by Talon87; 03-18-2012 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:12 PM   #20
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deeeeeeeeeeeeeeerp

this is why i should not have posted

i'm sorry i keep digging and digging and the hole just gets deeper
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:38 PM   #21
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OK, time to make my return to UPN. And in that note, I'd love to Sign Up for this effort, just for the random, all out Battles so reminiscent of Pokemon Stadium. Or rather, I'll just start contributin' Movesets and Pokemon ASAP. Did I hear anyone say Rain Dance Seaking's back?
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:43 PM   #22
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I would like to make a suggestion. Can we have Pokemon with different movesets?

I know Talon likes DD Charizard, but if I like SP Char, then I have to use DD Char?

Not advocating every set in the world, but maybe two or three.

Totally a Ferrothorn CB set, that kicks surprising ass.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:28 PM   #23
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I would like to make a suggestion. Can we have Pokemon with different movesets?
You can join Shuckle in time out. You clearly did not take the time to read this thread: so why should I take the time to answer your question? I'll treat you with respect if you treat me with respect. I'll give you my time if you give me yours.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:31 PM   #24
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You can join Shuckle in time out. You clearly did not take the time to read this thread: so why should I take the time to answer your question? I'll treat you with respect if you treat me with respect. I'll give you my time if you give me yours.
I treated you with respect. And sorry, I often have just enough time for a quick scanning instead of intensive reading.

I will make sure to read more fully when I can.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #25
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Save your questions for after you've read the thread then.
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