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Old 09-25-2013, 06:33 PM   #2526
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Originally Posted by MarbleZone View Post
Tried out X-Sabers for the first time, and it was a little underwhelming. Without Faultroll on the field, who's absolutely amazing, the deck felt way too slow... Not to mention Hyunlei died as soon as it was summoned in every single duel. Being forced to run more backrow hate to pull off a Synchro that kills backrow feels a little silly :P

Gadgets remain my main deck, and Photon is a blast to play with. If only there were other useful Rank 8s beside Hieratic Overlord... Neo Galaxy and Tachyon are doing nothing for me, and I never go for Gimmick Puppets when I can go for Overlord. For such huge ass beasts, they really could use some actual protection...
I'll give Mecha Phantom Beasts and Geargia a go next.

Haven't tried any of the Tier 1 Decks yet, I never do; I always feel like if I win with those, it's my obligation, whereas if I lose with a top tier deck then I'm even worse than I thought. :P the downside is that, since I have no experience with those decks, I might as well scoop when I'm up against them; not only are they out of my league, it'd take me hours to understand the combos, so I kinda just sit back and watch the plays. :P
I like how you think. A lot.
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Old 09-25-2013, 06:39 PM   #2527
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Legendary Six Samurai is basically a remake of X-Sabers and both decks function in a very similar fashion, but there's a lot of weaknesses in X-Saber play that are easy to exploit. For the evolution of decks, you could say the reason the new meta decks have fewer weaknesses is that Konami learned from previous meta when designing their old decks.

X-Saber → Six Samurai

Fabled → Mermail

Dragunity → Inzektor
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:07 PM   #2528
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Fableds aren't bad though! *shot*

Dark World is the miracle baby.

Oh yeah, and Princess Cologne is just plain retarded. The thing is basically immune to 80% of everything in the game. It's immune to attacks, cards effects, and monsters that target it. Bar Dark Hole, which you can always run Stardust for, that card just stalls forever.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:22 PM   #2529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeVA View Post
Fableds aren't bad though! *shot*
Improvements of Mermail over Fabled:

-Mermails float, search, or destroy cards when discarded
-Mermails summon via effect, instead of normal condition summons
-Mermails have support spell/traps

All of these features make Mermail a far hardier deck than Fabled, despite the same basic mechanics. You can visually see the power creep in how Mermail cards are improved over Fabled.

Each of the Duel Terminal archetypes could be imagined as "primitive" versions of the XYZ oriented decks, except the archetypes that were later capable of XYZs like Infernity and Six Samurai.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:28 PM   #2530
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Also, I hate the Xyz mechanic. Who's with me?
No. Just no.

It let's me use the old cards I used to love with some pretty cool new cards. Gotta clench up that anus and just suck it up; things change! lol
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:42 PM   #2531
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There is nothing wrong with the XYZ mechanic. It's a very balanced addition to the game.

It's just that some of the cards are kinda broken. Or are.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:45 PM   #2532
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I cannot even believe how many decks I have now.


I really like XYZ Summoning as a mechanic, but some of the cards... Wowborked.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:51 PM   #2533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeVA View Post
There is nothing wrong with the XYZ mechanic. It's a very balanced addition to the game.
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Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Legendary Six Samurai is basically a remake of X-Sabers and both decks function in a very similar fashion, but there's a lot of weaknesses in X-Saber play that are easy to exploit. For the evolution of decks, you could say the reason the new meta decks have fewer weaknesses is that Konami learned from previous meta when designing their old decks.

X-Saber → Six Samurai

Fabled → Mermail

Dragunity → Inzektor
To piggyback on Doppel's post, in response to Blaze's post, I would offer this relationship:

Tribute Summon → XYZ Summon

How ironic that the XYZ mechanic itself would basically be to an older mechanic what Doppel suggests many XYZ-era archetypes have been to older archetypes. Granted, we had Synchros along the way, so the relationship might more accurately be written down as:

Tribute Summon → Synchro Summon → XYZ Summon

But the way I see it, it's basically this:
  • if we equate a Tribute Summon as being dead neutral, neither bad nor good, say ...
  • then Synchro Summons, which are basically tribute summons except you always have access to the monster who's to be summoned when you need him and you never have him cluttering up your hand when you don't (because hellooooooooooo, Extra Deck!), are clearly an upgrade
  • and XYZ Summons, which not only come from the Extra Deck but which tend to also be a lot easier to cheat out than picky picky Synchros (with their "one Tuner and one non-Tuner" restrictions), are even better!
Now, better for the health of the card game? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that I'm not saying one way or another. ^^; I just mean objectively better in the sense of giving the player who uses them an immense advantage over the player who doesn't.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:02 PM   #2534
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Yeah, Synchro and XYZ are both really cool in that they limit the monsters that can be used in exchange for not needing the monster in your hand. For Synchro, you need a certain total of levels (and tuner stuff), and for XYZ you need both to be the correct level. I think one of the big problems is that the Rank 4 XYZs are really, really overly borked. I think that was a pretty bad choice, as Level 4 monsters are arguably the most versatile class of monster- High power, but can (normally) be played without any sacrifice.

Something else I find cool is the difference between Synchro and XYZ effects. XYZ monsters tend to have powerful effects limited by the fact they can only be used up to a certain number of times (and, awesomely enough, that number of times is, by mechanics, balanced to how much you sacrificed!). Synchros, on the other hand, tend to have powerful when-summoned and/or once-per-turn abilities limited by... Being harder to get out, I guess.


Also I get this weird feeling of dirtiness when I use a Tuner for an XYZ summon. Anyone else?
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:16 PM   #2535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeVA View Post
There is nothing wrong with the XYZ mechanic. It's a very balanced addition to the game.
No, I disagree. Perhaps in theory XYZs aren't bad, but there's an issue of the highest number and strongest ones being Rank 4, with Level 4 monsters as the easiest monsters to summon and maintain.

When you think of Synchros, a Level 8 monster was rarely summoned with two Level 4 monsters. The mechanic was designed in such a way that you couldn't rely on the strength of a Level 4 monster and upgrade to a Synchro, you had to bear more risk in running odd numbered cards and getting them onto the field somehow. In the early Synchro era, Level 6 was the most common because you could summon a Level 4, then use something like Emergency Teleport to call out Krebons, a Level 2, and go for 6. Or, you could summon Destiny Hero - Malicious with Krebons and go for Level 8.

The fact that XYZs were based around Rank 4 monsters means that you can take any archetype deck and add the XYZs on top of it to make them far stronger. Old decks from 2003-2004 are playable by simply adding an Extra Deck stacked with XYZs, when they wouldn't be with Fusions or Synchros.

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Originally Posted by Kindrindra View Post
Yeah, Synchro and XYZ are both really cool in that they limit the monsters that can be used in exchange for not needing the monster in your hand. For Synchro, you need a certain total of levels (and tuner stuff), and for XYZ you need both to be the correct level. I think one of the big problems is that the Rank 4 XYZs are really, really overly borked. I think that was a pretty bad choice, as Level 4 monsters are arguably the most versatile class of monster- High power, but can (normally) be played without any sacrifice.
Kin gets it!

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Originally Posted by Talon87 View Post
To piggyback on Doppel's post, in response to Blaze's post, I would offer this relationship:

Tribute Summon → XYZ Summon

How ironic that the XYZ mechanic itself would basically be to an older mechanic what Doppel suggests many XYZ-era archetypes have been to older archetypes. Granted, we had Synchros along the way, so the relationship might more accurately be written down as:

Tribute Summon → Synchro Summon → XYZ Summon
Synchros are actually a combination of Contact Fusion and Ritual Summons. Contact Fusion involved Fusion of monsters on the field without use of Polymerization. It's exactly the same as a Synchro Summon, except no level requirement. For Ritual Summons, you summoned the monster from the hand by tributing cards with a level that added up to the Ritual Monster's level. So Synchros basically combine the level requirement, and the monster on the field requirement.

Contact Fusion (as seen in Gladiator Beasts) preceded Synchros by only a few formats. Ritual Summons are old, coming out at the same time as Fusions, but they were intended to be an alternative to Fusions because the monsters were either stronger or had more powerful effects, and had more generic requirements.

You're completely right in how XYZ Summoning is a direct remake or Tribute Summoning. This is also supported by the consistent remakes of old Tribute Summon monster cards, and resurrection/support of older archetypes not see during the Synchro Era. Konami is banking on nostalgia while trying to bring back old players into the "21st Century" as it were while selling their per-designed archetype cards.

It's kind of ironic, because in the ZeXal anime, every deck is XYZ-centric, while in the real-life game it's just ordinary archetype decks splashed with XYZs.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:01 PM   #2536
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So, wait, Tribute Setting is a thing?
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:28 AM   #2537
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So, wait, Tribute Setting is a thing?
Guardian Sphinx wants to say "Hi!".
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:29 AM   #2538
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You know, Stardust Dragon has... Vexingly low stats. It does help to balance it... But it means my ultimate combo has a weakness. ;__;
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:35 AM   #2539
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You know, Stardust Dragon has... Vexingly low stats. It does help to balance it... But it means my ultimate combo has a weakness. ;__;
So does Susanowo, though he's still strong enough to achieve the Black Garden OTK perfectly. Get MST'd, though, and your Opponent will be laughing all the way back into that same Black Garden, unless you make a stop at the Kaiser Colloseum.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:46 AM   #2540
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You know, Stardust Dragon has... Vexingly low stats. It does help to balance it... But it means my ultimate combo has a weakness. ;__;
What combo?
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:21 AM   #2541
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Two Princess colognes and Stardust Dragon.

Kin, your deck has always had a weakness: Madolche. Madolche don't target >:]
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:36 PM   #2542
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Non-targeting is always a weakness silly Fallen. Madolche are really OP anyways.

Came from a duel...where I saw Phantasmal Matter, Elemental HERO Prisma, and Dark Armed Dragon in a Fabled deck.

I dun get it.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:40 PM   #2543
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Madolche are by no means overpowered. Let's please mind we don't misuse the term "overpowered" when what we really mean to say is "powerful."
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:57 PM   #2544
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Madolche are by no means overpowered. Let's please mind we don't misuse the term "overpowered" when what we really mean to say is "powerful."
Outside of Dragon Rulers, what current decks are generally considered overpowered?
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #2545
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Mermail?
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:39 PM   #2546
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Mermail and Prophecy are probably the two easiest ones to pick out. Hieratics, Bujins, Fire Fist, and Evilswarm are really powerful, but not overpowered. Dark World, Maldoche, Zombies, Blackwings, and Constellars fit a rung under. But this is all in my opinion and Six Sams probably should be in the same rung, but I'm not sure anymore with Gateway being hit.

And Talon it was more in jest because I really don't like Tiaramisu. I can beat it in most cases but Tiaramisu is a little OP. In all seriousness.

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Old 09-26-2013, 08:18 PM   #2547
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Being a Bujin player myself, I wouldn't place them in the same ring as Hieratics. Bujin is consistent, though aside from the Black Garden OTK, which they can perform rather consistently, they're relatively underwhelming when compared to other Decks that can simply do the whole Xyz jazz a lot better. Hieratics are amazing, but they have fallen from grace due to the fact that there's stuff that's even worse these days running around, namely DRs. Also, each time I see a 37 Monster 3 Abyss-Sphere Mermail Deck, I die a bit inside. How can people play like that, and win?
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:42 PM   #2548
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I DISLIKE BLACK ROSE DRAGON
STRONGLY
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger View Post
Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:07 PM   #2549
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I DISLIKE BLACK ROSE DRAGON
STRONGLY
I KNOW RIGHT? THAT FIRE TYPING DESPITE BEING A PLANT? THAT BEING A PLANT DESPITE BEING A DRAGON? HELL, IT'S NOT EVEN NAMED PROPERLY! THIS IS A BLACK ROSE!

... oh. You meant you don't like the effects of the card. I see.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:17 PM   #2550
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Ask Fallen. I often(70%) call it Red Rose Dragon instead of Black Rose Dragon.

Black Rose is alright cause it removes itself from the field. Blackwings I've seen can do devastating things afterwards, but playing Black Rose is a huge gamble. Judgement Dragon is far, far worse because it stays on the field and can allow for many end-game plays that are near impossible to stop.
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