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Old 03-30-2012, 07:51 PM   #51
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Good point, anything you want to say Sneezy?
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:04 PM   #52
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Ponyta would be constantly watching his opponent, and given how high up Krow would be, he WOULD have seen him, as he was constantly running to be directly under him, and it shouldn't have even taken that long to get to that point.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:39 PM   #53
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haha, no.

1. you can't see through solid flames- and that's what hid Honchkrow from Ponyta as it Baton Passed.

2. Ponyta only saw the mimic- it never did see the actual baton pass- according to the reffing where Honchkrow used the Baton Pass, Mimic happened as Fire Spin did, and Honchkrow left before Ponyta saw it again. namely, even if Ponyta saw the Mimic, its Fire Spin blocked it from actually seeing Honchkrow use Baton Pass.

3. secondly, I understand that 1 poke mimiced the BP because it saw it, at the same time, How does a pokemon Mimic a move that was mimiced by the other one and use it effectively?

4. even if I grant you the running time, at best Ponyta only saw the end result, not how the move was done- so yeah, it saw Honchkrow vanish, it still doesn't know how the hell it did it.

don't blame me, blame that fire spin of yours.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:57 AM   #54
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Quote:
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haha, no.

1. you can't see through solid flames- and that's what hid Honchkrow from Ponyta as it Baton Passed.
Once again, Ponyta was looking from below, through the center of the vortex, NOT through the flames

2. Ponyta only saw the mimic- it never did see the actual baton pass- according to the reffing where Honchkrow used the Baton Pass, Mimic happened as Fire Spin did, and Honchkrow left before Ponyta saw it again. namely, even if Ponyta saw the Mimic, its Fire Spin blocked it from actually seeing Honchkrow use Baton Pass.
Ponyta was running from round start, more than enough time to get a proper view.

3. secondly, I understand that 1 poke mimiced the BP because it saw it, at the same time, How does a pokemon Mimic a move that was mimiced by the other one and use it effectively?
There's no limit to Mimic chains as of now, bring it up with the LOs, but since the move is exactly the same post-Mimic, it should easily be able to be Mimiced again.

4. even if I grant you the running time, at best Ponyta only saw the end result, not how the move was done- so yeah, it saw Honchkrow vanish, it still doesn't know how the hell it did it.
See #2

don't blame me, blame that fire spin of yours.
Comments in bold. Just realize I know what I'm talking about, had my orders set up that way for a reason, and deal with it.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:48 PM   #55
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...you act as if I didn't predict this- look, read the reffing of the Fire Spin- yes, Ponyta launched the fire spin, ect. but there's two reasons why it could not have seen Honchkrow perform Baton Pass.

1. it was at an angle- aka, it wasn't directly underneath Honchkrow when it launched the flames, which means that if it had to wait for the Fire Spin to finish, it can't see everything that's going on.

also, there's no indication that Ponyta was in the vortex of fire- if Spindry was in the air, then hypothetically it should have been free from the Fire Spin if it didn't reach all the way to the ground. But if Spindry was trapped by the fire spin, even after its fall, means that the fire spin went all the way back to earth. As the reffing reads, it appears that Ponyta did not get in its Fire Spin vortex, because even your orders were based on firing a flamethrower through the fire spin, which indicates that you wanted to be outside of the spin.

Which means that if it's a spinning tornado that reaches all the way to the ground, would mean that Ponyta couldn't have seen Honchkrow because the fire was from the ground all the way to where Honchkrow was in the air, means that Ponyta was outside the fire spin looking in, which means that it couldn't have seen any part of Honchkrow, or anything worth enough for Baton Pass to work.

your arguments

number 1- it's impossible- it's a shopping mall, the celing is not that high. secondly, one of two things happened. Either, Honchkrow's so high up that the fire spin couldn't reach him, or the celing and Honchkrow were low enough to where the spin engulfed them and reached the floor.

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You ordered him to run towards him. You did not order him to get inside the spin with him. No pokemon in its right mind would run into a flaming tornado of its own accord.
as Haymez points out, if Honchkrow got hit by the fire spin, means that he was low enough for the vortex to hit him and reach the ground. and since Ponyta did not get under the spin in time, it's outside of it, which means that it could not have seen Honchkrow, which means Baton Pass failed.

number 2- answered above, if Fire Spin reached the ground, means that it hit/engulfed Honchkrow, means that Ponyta's outside of it, means that it saw mimic, but not the Baton Pass

number 3- yes, Mimic chains are "infinite" at the same time, there should be a limit- there's a difference between mimicing a move that you saw the previous round, and one where you mimic an opponent who mimiced a move that you never saw that you can't learn anyway- that does not make sense at all.
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Last edited by Firewater; 03-31-2012 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:08 PM   #56
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We're on the roof of the mall, pay attention. And I've already discredited all of your other arguments. Just admit I'm right and FUKKEN. ORDER.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:38 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneezey12 View Post
We're on the roof of the mall, pay attention. And I've already discredited all of your other arguments. Just admit I'm right and FUKKEN. ORDER.
few things.

1. when did we get on the roof.
2. you're wrong
3. your argument also doesn't make sense. and you ignored the ones i just pointed out- hell, Haymez did earlier, the original reffing was fine

also,

Quote:
as Haymez points out, if Honchkrow got hit by the fire spin, means that he was low enough for the vortex to hit him and reach the ground. and since Ponyta did not get under the spin in time, it's outside of it, which means that it could not have seen Honchkrow, which means Baton Pass failed.

number 2- answered above, if Fire Spin reached the ground, means that it hit/engulfed Honchkrow, means that Ponyta's outside of it, means that it saw mimic, but not the Baton Pass

number 3- yes, Mimic chains are "infinite" at the same time, there should be a limit- there's a difference between mimicing a move that you saw the previous round, and one where you mimic an opponent who mimiced a move that you never saw that you can't learn anyway- that does not make sense at all.
Quote:
You ordered him to run towards him. You did not order him to get inside the spin with him. No pokemon in its right mind would run into a flaming tornado of its own accord.
also, there's no specification as to how high Honchkrow was, obviously if it was out of range of Fire Spin, then it shouldn't have been able to hit Sentret before, since it never really moved from where it was, secondly, all attacks have hit, so it's obviously in Fire Spin range.

also this
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Mimicking a Mimicked move should have a higher rate of failure, considering the Mimicked move is going to be imperfect already.

And I dunno Fire Spin has always been shown as a pretty significant column of fire. So I think it probably would reach an airborne target as long as they're not super high up.
point is, the only argument that you've ignored makes the most sense- since Haymez said that the Fire Spin hit, then Honchkrow wasn't that high up, and given the components of Fire Spin, means it's on the ground, Ponyta's outside of it, and it did not see Baton pass, and even if it did, there still should have been some sort of check on if it would have worked. but the big issue is that Honchkrow was out of Ponyta's sight when Baton Pass occured.

I'm right, i'll order when this all gets fixed and you order.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:53 PM   #58
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We've been on the roof since the start.

Honchkrow was ordered to stay high. 20 feet isn't that high, and most wide attacks like Pulses are going to hit a tired 'mon even if they were fired from far.

Mimicing a Mimiced move may have a higher failure rate, but it's discretionary, since nobody likes giving percentages.

Quit your bitching and let the ref make a final decision, since it won't matter anyway. After all I'm going to steamroll you.

Oh, and don't quote answers to questions that don't give the full scenario. Not cool.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:16 PM   #59
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Okay, here's what we will do. Disregard the other reffing, this is my final decision.

Entering the battle now is Spindry, the washing machine Rotom, in wash form!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Species Characteristics
Rotom (Electric/Ghost): Rotom is considered permananetly in "plasma" form, which most closely resembles Gaseous. However, it can pass through walls in this state and is able to occupy objects for a much longer time than other Ghosts. While occupying an object, it will take full damage from attacks if that object is hit with attacks. Despite these abilities, Rotom cannot stay in walls, floors, or other significant surfaces for any longer than the typical ghost. When Rotom is given a form other than the default, bonded permanantly to an appliance, it is locked into Solid form. When in default form, Rotom is very fast and able to turn corners sharply and instantly.
Electric types, in general, prefer areas where their electric attacks are most accurate. Thus, while hot temperatures don’t bother them, the fact that heat refracts electricity doesn’t appeal to them.
Spindry chills, at least as much as a washing machine can while in a flaming tornado, taking a bit of damage from it. As per orders, Tuan thinks back on the last round to try and mimic the last move he saw. Unfortunately, all he could see from the last round was a vauge image of a bird baton passing. He attempts to copy it but can't manage it from so little information. While he is doing this, Spindry sinks to the ground, waiting for the opportunity to strike. As the fire spin ends, he discharges electricity, which gives Tuan quite a shock. The ponyta quickly retaliates with another spining column of fire which envelops Spindry yes again. From within this inferno, the washing machine fires off a beam of bubbles. The bubbles encounter the fire spin, breaking the tornado apart. At the end, Spindry is free from fire spin, and Tuan escaped bubble damage.

Spindry took little damage, not far off perfect. Fine energy wise.

Tuan took considerable damage. Also fine on energy.

Sneezy
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:13 PM   #60
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did Spindry take the fall damage? I'm just wondering because the reffing sounds like he'd fallen a decent distance or something while Ponyta attempted the Mimic.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:49 PM   #61
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No, rotom is capable of levitation. As he fell he used some energy to slow his fall, avoiding damage.

If you would rather have the damage instead of energy use let me know.
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:50 PM   #62
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Wash Rotom is not capable of levitation.

Wash, Heat, and Freeze Rotom all move by hopping, which makes them quite slow, Cut Rotom with its wheels, and Fan and Formless Rotom can actually levitate.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:33 PM   #63
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Quote:
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For maneuverability sake, let's say they can all levitate at least enough to get around, but only Cut, Heat and Spin will have almost Normal Forme-esque movement.
Pay attention to S&I, ladies.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:54 PM   #64
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which is why I pointed out the damage even before the baton pass got decided, ect. Also Sneasel, your order, whenever you've got the time.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #65
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Well... excuse me for not wanting to read through something that more often than not isn't actual S&I. I was just reciting how it was previously. Anyway...

One question before I order. For clarification's sake, where are we in the mall?
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:56 PM   #66
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I believe we're still on the roof. I don't think any significant attack has hit it to break through.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:57 PM   #67
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not a rush at all good sir.

edit... since when did we get on the Roof?
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:43 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneezey12 View Post
We're on the roof of the mall
That's what i'm going off of.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:52 AM   #69
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Actually, looking back at the first reffing, it appears that "on the roof" was at some point edited to "on the right side of the building". I dislike when refs do this.

Orders when Haymez gives final say as to where we are.
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:40 PM   #70
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Let's say we're on the roof.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:36 PM   #71
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Time for a tactical retreat then... but let's do it in style.

"Short term Agility to dodge as you go into a Skull Bash to crash through the nearest skylight, or just jumping off the roof with it if that's closer. Make sure to land on the aura so as to avoid taking damage from the fall."
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:24 PM   #72
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...why be complicated.

Swagger him, Hydro Pump twice. if the Swagger fails, follow him down and Hydro Pump him anyway, use his body to cushion your fall.

potential 3 confirmed
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:16 PM   #73
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Round 8

Tuan prepares for a stylish retreat, preparing some extra agility to avoid attacks and get away quickly. He bolts toward a skylight with the intent to break through and hide. Looking back to see if his foe will try and stop him he sees Spindry strutting about with a swagger in his step, boasting in his advantage. Now that's not nice. Tuan goes into a rage, stopping his attempt to flee, and turns to face his foe. He coats his head in a white aura and charges back towards the washing machine with the intent to bash Spindry's skull in, or at least dent the washing machine. Spindry unloads a hydro pump on the incoming Ponyta, the stream of water striking the glowing cap of energy on his head which deflects the blast, weakening the strike. Tuan, still enraged, slams into Spindry before being blasted back by another hydro pump.

Tuan took a crapton of damage. Sitting just above the final quarter. Used fairly low energy.

Spindry took heavy damage, a moderate amount left in the first quarter. Used a ton of energy, a little ways above half energy. Will be tired next round.

They are about ten feet apart.

Firewater
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:37 PM   #74
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Water Pulse wave twice, space them out so you don't get too tired.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:20 PM   #75
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Tired huh?

"Hypnosis for some nice sleep. Get behind him, but near a skylight or edge of the building and let loose a Solarbeam. Finish the round by jumping down before he can attack, using a Protect to shield yourself from damage from the fall, as well as from water from above."

3-mover confirmed.
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