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Old 01-14-2012, 11:23 AM   #26
Talon87
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Really? Film critics and laypeople alike single out Pinocchio often, I thought. I know I would. When I was a little boy, I thought that Pinocchio was no older -- perhaps even newer -- than The Jungle Book which came thirty-odd years later. Whether that's a discredit to 1967 Walt Disney Studios or a huge credit to 1940 Walt Disney Studios, I dunno, but Pinocchio is damn impressive when you consider it was drawn back in the late '30s (released February 1940).

I think it's also pretty telling what Disney themselves think about their first two films and the public's perception of them. Because while they released Pinocchio on VHS in 1985 -- back when the technology was still piping hot -- they held off on Snow White until 1994, almost one full decade later. In fact, and I quote the Wikipedia, "It was the last of the early Disney animated films to be released on home video." Saving the best for last? Hardly. While Snow White is a decent film, neither its story nor its animation are as compelling IMO as some of Disney's later works. But the fact that they couldn't even wait to get Pinocchio onto VHS should tell you something, Muyo ...

... about just how wrong you are. *shot*
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:23 PM   #27
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I didn't mention Snow White, I mentioned Sleeping Beauty- and I'm really not surprised about Snow White's release, it's still quite brutal. Pinocchio had the incomparable "When you wish upon a star" and Jiminy Cricket, as well as a few scenes that stick out- Monstro's breaching was particularly well animated- but it's simply not the all-timer to me of the early Disney era. Pinocchio did tighten Snow White's innovations, though, no question- but I'm still curious as to what makes it stand above in Dopple's mind.
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:36 PM   #28
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I was only wanting to compare Disney Film #1 with Disney Film #2. But as for which is more popular between Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty ... Pinocchio, VHS release 1985, Sleeping Beauty, VHS release 1986. It's pretty clear that Disney Studios is proud of both films but it's also clear which one they felt the public would want to own first. Consider also that the film was not re-released on VHS until the late hour of 1997 (an eleven-year gap), whereas Pinnochio was re-released in 1993 (an eight-year gap), something which should indicate to you which film was more in-demand for a re-release (whether because people couldn't find the 1985 copy or because their personal copies had worn out from too many viewings over the years).

I'm not saying you're wrong to like Sleeping Beauty more. I am saying that the facts would support the claim that the American public, overall, seems to prefer Pinocchio; and that it's surprising that you didn't realize just how popular Pinocchio was.

========================================

Back on topic to Batman. I've been reading some stuff about it on wikis and what not in my spare time, and I just happened across this picture while reading up on Batgirl. If this is what the animation tended to look like in The Batman, then yeesh. I don't like it. Reminds me of the fugly pseudo-anime pseudo-B:TAS look of shows like Teen Titans. In fact, it looks exactly like Teen Titans. So I guess if you loved Teen Titans' animation, you'd love The Batman's too. But ... damn, guys, she looks like a friggin' Oocca. That head ... and that neck!

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Old 01-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #29
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:09 PM   #30
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Non-adults, The Penguin and The Joker look weird, I'll give you that. Scroll through these, you'll find it's nothing like Teen Titans. I remember reading something about them changing the art style to be more in-line with Justice League (bulking up batman slightly, making his chin less sharp and more reminiscent of Batman: The Animated Series). I like it mostly for the plot though. I didn't dislike Teen Titans either.

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Old 01-14-2012, 01:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
Non-adults, The Penguin and The Joker look weird, I'll give you that. Scroll through these, you'll find it's nothing like Teen Titans. I remember reading something about them changing the art style to be more in-line with Justice League (bulking up batman slightly, making his chin less sharp and more reminiscent of Batman: The Animated Series). I like it mostly for the plot though. I didn't dislike Teen Titans either.
From what I saw, I didn't like any of it. Batman's head looks wonkily drawn. So does Green Lantern's. Didn't care for the reimagining of Commissioner Gordon's look ...

... but you know something? This is probably 99% chalk-up-able to nostalgia. "The one I saw first did it better," "the one I grew up with was the best," etc. So I don't really want to comment on it (or hate on it) further than to say, "I don't like the look. It's off-putting enough that I don't think I'll be giving this one a go." I'd be sad to hear today's kids say the same thing about Batman: the Animated Series, but there you have it.

And I have to say: I saw the The Batman Joker and ... Gr is totally right. Haven't seen him speaking (have only seen him on Youtube in fan videos), but just to see his redesign and to see him move around ... he seems like a hulking brute. Which is not what the Joker is supposed to be about at all. I also saw Harley Quinn in The Batman and ... again. Didn't like the new look. Felt very KidsWB Teen Titans-ey to me.

Okay. I said I wasn't going to hate on The Batman more. Especially since I haven't actually seen an episode of it. So I'll stop here. Maybe if someone can link me to a full episode somewhere (non-download), I'll watch it. Give it a fair try.

Now it's time to give you The Batman fans some punching material. Batman Beyond? I liked it. I actually really liked it as a teenager. Not sure how I'd feel about it now, but back then, I really, really dug the idea of a timeskip in the Batman universe which would see the passing on of the mantle from Bruce Wayne to someone new. Some of the new villains were bad, yes, but some I thought were pretty interesting. I will say this though:

Batman Beyond: the Return of the Joker is probably the most frightening, scarring cartoon I have ever seen in my life. I got that as a gift and eagerly watched it one night ... only to put it away in its box, put the box deep in the back of my bookshelf, and spent the next 10+ years trying to forget the creepy shit I had seen in that movie.

Spoiler: show
Just ... the whole idea of Joker-ifying Robin really fuckin' creeped me out. Less for the physical aspect, though that was creepy too, but more so for the psychological aspect. Really fucked with me. To this day. Just ... really creeped me out.

Aside from how creepy it was, though, it was a solid story to tell. And it tastefully put the nail in the coffin for seeing more Joker in the cartoon show, something I was appreciative of since part of the whole idea to Batman Beyond was supposed to be getting over the past villains and ushering in a new set of interesting villains to join the mythos. Sadly, it never really caught on, and I'm not even sure if any of the Batman Beyond creations have made it into DC canon the way that Bruce Timm's Harley Quinn did.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:48 PM   #32
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Joker in "The Batman" was less of a brute and more of a deranged serial killer who just wanted to kill people or fuck with them. Actually I suppose that is brutish... but yes, completely different Joker, although I still loved him (just not as much as I loved Mark's).

Also, I enjoyed the Teen Titan's story quite a bit, and after recently rewatching the series finale, after years of being upset that they ended it on a cliff hanger, I actually felt they did the ending right and left it open to interpretation. The animation annoyed me at times because it tried to hard to have anime tendencies and often.

As for Batman Beyond, wasn't a fan, which is odd because I like the movie (in fact I own it), but I just didn't like the show. It was too angsty... I didnt think Terry did a good job being the new Batman (sure he was badass, but he didn't have the personality, not to mention he could never be Bruce Wayne). I dunno, I suppose I wasn't a fan of it's dystopian future setting either. I just had a lot of qualms with it, but I'm definitely in the minority in Batman fandom.
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:44 PM   #33
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Now i want to fnd a copy of Batman: Mask of the Pantasm(? Spelling) and watch it
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:09 PM   #34
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Now i want to fnd a copy of Batman: Mask of the Pantasm(? Spelling) and watch it
What a damn good movie. I must have seen it at least twenty times.

Didn't care for the romance, of course, but it's a package deal.
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:45 PM   #35
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i felt the same about the romance also but it was needed to understand the back story. i also felt it was a better quality and storyline than Batman Returns.

i also used to own the comic adaptation of it but lost it :'(

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Old 01-14-2012, 05:40 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Also: I would not call TIE Fighter the best flight simulator ever and aive played my fair share of them. Rose-tinted lenses indeed.
You are very big on graphics and appearances, but like with all old games those rarely hold firm over time. It is the quality of the writing in Tie Fighter that is immortal, and the gameplay hasn't been imitated by more recent Star Wars games so it is still unique. Those two weaknesses could be easily addressed in a modern day remake, unlike the story which modern day Star Wars writers + Lucas seem to struggle with.

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I'm really curious now as to why Dopple thinks so highly of Pinocchio- I agree with his assessment of TIE Fighter as a classic (though maybe not the best of all time), but Pinocchio seems a bit randomly selected- I don't know of anyone else who singles it out as the pinnacle of early Disney (I'm partial to Sleeping Beauty myself from the early-ish films, the backgrounds are simply astounding, you can really see how it cost such an astronomical amount to make).
A few reasons, but I'll first point out Sleeping Beauty isn't considered "early Disney", since it came out during the late 1950's, nearly 20 years after Pinocchio. That would be firmly "middle" Disney for me, since The Jungle Book (the "end" of Disney's Golden Era) debut during the late 1960's.

Pinocchio is often cited as the best early Disney movie because it was easy to connect to while having the crazy insane animation of the 1940's. It's not as esoteric as Snow White and its fantastical romance plot, nor as experimental as Fantasia and Bambi. Dumbo was the first film where Disney started to really cut animation costs, so only Snow White, Pinocchio and Fantasia can really claim to have the best animation in a Disney film. It also premiered the most memorable Disney song ever.

It's also aged extremely well, to the point of it blending in with later films. Rotoscoping isn't really a technical accomplishment for animation but Pinocchio only had one obviously rotoscoped character - The Blue Fairy. By contrast, all the humans in Snow White were rotoscoped, with only the animals and dwarves animated from character sheets. Arguably, this featured use of rotoscoping helped cast an impression of The Blue Fairy as magical and sublime. A feature, not a bug as it were.
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:17 PM   #37
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I didn't watch a lot of Batman: The Animated Series or Batman Beyond when I was young, but even I hated what they did to the Joker in The Batman. The chainsaw-wielding maniac look gave me nightmares. x.X
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:58 AM   #38
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Okay. I said I wasn't going to hate on The Batman more. Especially since I haven't actually seen an episode of it. So I'll stop here. Maybe if someone can link me to a full episode somewhere (non-download), I'll watch it. Give it a fair try.
My actual favourite episode is the series finale, and although there’s not much continuity between episodes besides the introduction of Robin, I don’t think it’d be the best one to give you a feel for the series. I’d say one of my favourite episodes from what I can remember is/was “Riddler’s Revenge”.

Try watching it with an open mind, and if you decide to critique it make sure you cover your opinion of plot, voicework etc. rather than just the visuals and character design. Don’t worry too much when Dick Grayson shows up, Robin’s hardly in this ep as with most episodes. Just watch it, then try and tell me they ruined the batman franchise for a generation. Even I’m saying Batman: TAS is better, but I really enjoyed The Batman during its run too and I don’t think it’s fair to shrug it off because it’s not the one you grew up with.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:35 AM   #39
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="Riddler's Revenge" Thoughts=

First impressions (thru the OP):
I'm not a fan of the Riddler's re-design. Not at all. The black lines on his face are silly, but even worse is that long, black hair. It just doesn't fit the Riddler at all. It's like whoever wrote this show went out of their way to take the established Batman villains and to transform them into completely new people. That sort of thing usually only works when you do it gradually (like with 1960s Comic Joker --> Nicholson Joker --> Hamill Joker --> Ledger Joker) or else when it's so badass the fans just can't help but to love it (like with 1960s Batman --> out of nowhere the 1980s Dark Knight). But again: this is largely superficial, and you said not to focus on the animation, so ...

The premise with the exploding boat is interesting. The premise of having Batman and the Riddler trapped in a cargo container together is also interesting. I'll look forward to seeing how the episode proceeds from here.

Continuing Impressions (while watching remainder of episode):
Why call him Dick Grayson? Why not just have him be Tim Drake? No one's going to mind skipping right past Dick if it's the kid you're after, WB, and not the young adult. Well, whatever.

An okay backstory for the Riddler. Better than the one in the live-action movie, perhaps, but ... I dunno, I think the Batman mythos is capable of better. But it's not bad.

LOL @ the part where Gorman calls 911 and Batman is suddenly on the case. What? We're supposed to believe that he intercepts all 911 calls? And that even more incredibly he's able to tell apart the birth-of-an-archcriminal ones from the help-my-dog's-choking ones? Obviously most kids aren't going to question this, but ...

The plot twist was pretty obvious -- they made it pretty clear during the party with the way [the true culprit] leered at him after things went wrong -- but again, kids show, it doesn't have to be The Most Epic Plot Twist Ever to be good.

LOL @ how some of those biopads fall off of Julie's face all on their own while Batman and Robin take on the Riddler. Some adhesives you've got there, Gorman.

Whoa! What's with the police just letting Batman go? What sort of alternate universe is this where the police are 100% cool with Batman and his vigilantism?

Final Impressions:
It was a good episode. Do I think it would have benefitted from Batman: the Animated Series's music and animation? Yes. Do I think it was better written than a number of Batman: the Animated Series episodes? Sure. But ultimately -- and I don't know if it's the animation or something else -- the impression I get from this production is that it's cheap. It ... inexplicably, reminds me of shows like Extreme Ghostbusters or Static Shock or Godzilla: the Series, not of shows like Batman: the Animated Series or Avatar: the Last Airbender. But like you said from the beginning: this wasn't a question of "Is The Batman better?" but instead "Is The Batman good all on its own?" I guess I would say, from this episode, I'm willing to be generous and say that it might have been good. (I say "might" since I wouldn't want to judge just based off of one episode alone.)
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Old 01-15-2012, 06:40 PM   #40
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Okay. Having re-watched quite a few episodes of Batman: the Animated Series, I think I'm ready to make some Top 10 nominations. Certainly these are episodes I'd place ahead of some of That Guy With the Glasses' picks.

Harley & Ivy:
This is one of the best episodes of the franchise imo as it establishes (and it establishes well) the famous duo of Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn. One of the best parts is when the Joker realizes where Harley's gone (that scream ).

Harley's Holiday:
This episode deals with the idea that many of Arkham's patients find it difficult to rehabilitate not because they're incapable of reform but because society just won't give them a second chance. That Guy With The Glasses picked a similar episode dealing with this concept -- the one with the Penguin -- but I think this episode beats it hands down. Harley Quinn is generally a more fascinating character, but what really seals the deal for this episode is the epic ending scene. It's one hell of a scene within the greater context of the Batman mythos and is pretty much pure fanboy fodder.

Harlequinade:
Three Harley Quinn episodes in a row!? And to think: I positively hated this character as a kid. This one actually may not be Top 10 material (while the other two certainly are), but it's still pretty good and I'd still place this above some of TGwtG's picks. One early scene in the episode is of Batman escorting Harley out of Arkham in exchange for her giving him a lead on the Joker's whereabouts. It is positively epic. I first saw it on Youtube in the link provided and that's actually what led me to want to watch the full episode. It's classic fanon "the Goddamn Batman" material and it's awesome to see it have made its way into the show. The rest of the episode is pretty good, too, though not without some pretty campy moments. The end of the episode -- "Baby? You're the greatest!" -- was absolute gold though. Only the Joker would have been able to react like that following what Harley had just done to him. I swear, they are the most dysfunctional couple ever: but that's why they're so great together for us at home to watch. Obviously we all agree with Poison Ivy that the Joker's scummy and abusive to her and she needs to get out of it, but that doesn't change the fact that the Joker and Harley more often than not capture the spotlight when they're on stage together.

So there you have it: three episodes I'd recommend checking out, and at least two episodes I'd probably place in my own Top 10.

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Old 01-15-2012, 09:21 PM   #41
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="Riddler's Revenge" Thoughts=

First impressions (thru the OP):
I'm not a fan of the Riddler's re-design. Not at all. The black lines on his face are silly, but even worse is that long, black hair. It just doesn't fit the Riddler at all. It's like whoever wrote this show went out of their way to take the established Batman villains and to transform them into completely new people. That sort of thing usually only works when you do it gradually (like with 1960s Comic Joker --> Nicholson Joker --> Hamill Joker --> Ledger Joker) or else when it's so badass the fans just can't help but to love it (like with 1960s Batman --> out of nowhere the 1980s Dark Knight). But again: this is largely superficial, and you said not to focus on the animation, so ...

The premise with the exploding boat is interesting. The premise of having Batman and the Riddler trapped in a cargo container together is also interesting. I'll look forward to seeing how the episode proceeds from here.

Continuing Impressions (while watching remainder of episode):
Why call him Dick Grayson? Why not just have him be Tim Drake? No one's going to mind skipping right past Dick if it's the kid you're after, WB, and not the young adult. Well, whatever.

An okay backstory for the Riddler. Better than the one in the live-action movie, perhaps, but ... I dunno, I think the Batman mythos is capable of better. But it's not bad.

LOL @ the part where Gorman calls 911 and Batman is suddenly on the case. What? We're supposed to believe that he intercepts all 911 calls? And that even more incredibly he's able to tell apart the birth-of-an-archcriminal ones from the help-my-dog's-choking ones? Obviously most kids aren't going to question this, but ...

The plot twist was pretty obvious -- they made it pretty clear during the party with the way [the true culprit] leered at him after things went wrong -- but again, kids show, it doesn't have to be The Most Epic Plot Twist Ever to be good.

LOL @ how some of those biopads fall off of Julie's face all on their own while Batman and Robin take on the Riddler. Some adhesives you've got there, Gorman.

Whoa! What's with the police just letting Batman go? What sort of alternate universe is this where the police are 100% cool with Batman and his vigilantism?

Final Impressions:
It was a good episode. Do I think it would have benefitted from Batman: the Animated Series's music and animation? Yes. Do I think it was better written than a number of Batman: the Animated Series episodes? Sure. But ultimately -- and I don't know if it's the animation or something else -- the impression I get from this production is that it's cheap. It ... inexplicably, reminds me of shows like Extreme Ghostbusters or Static Shock or Godzilla: the Series, not of shows like Batman: the Animated Series or Avatar: the Last Airbender. But like you said from the beginning: this wasn't a question of "Is The Batman better?" but instead "Is The Batman good all on its own?" I guess I would say, from this episode, I'm willing to be generous and say that it might have been good. (I say "might" since I wouldn't want to judge just based off of one episode alone.)
I watched it too, I hadn't seen that season. The theme song was different than the first and second season, I don't like it. The first one was darker and more "mysterious". This one was alternative and goofy, and again, I dislike Robin and Batgirl's presence in the show. I feel it was better off with just Batman, although I suppose it was inevitable without a story drawing stale.

The episode wasn't bad, but it is definitely representative I suppose of the layout of most episodes in the show. Like I said before, the two parter with Clayface's creation was hands down the greatest and most emotional episode. We saw a main character, Bruce Wayne's friend and also a cop who went from hunting down Batman to supporting him, tragically turn into a villain against his will, and it also showed a more emotional side to Bruce. It also brought back the fucked up Joker we know and love, one who enjoys laughing at another's expense, in this case, by essentially killing Ethan and turning him into Clayface, and for the first time, Batman was powerless to stop it even though it happened right in front of him. You also probably would have had to see all the prior episodes with the character development to understand the tragedy of the character

Speaking of cops, though, at the end of S2, Gordon had the GCPD ally themselves with Batman, as he called him a protector or something like that. I just remember something about Barbara being involved with making that happen.

Anyway, I've already ruined the premise for you, but if you care to give it a watch even though you already have a vested idea of the show, here it is. It's also a S1 episode, so no Robin or Batgirl.

EDIT: Also, Part 2. I forgot how horrifying the first one's ending was for me when I first saw it. Just those last five seconds. I guess it just upset me because he was always such a huge protagonist in the show and he just... changed. And got fucked up.

EDIT 2: Okay, I think it's the whole Clayface anthology that is the best of the series. I recall another episode, possibly in S2, I don't remember, where he seeks out Joker for revenge and he has a very emotional breakdown in front of Batman. It was fantastic, and most likely the episode I was thinking about. From the Batman Wiki:

Spoiler: show
Quote:
Clayface returns in the episode "Meltdown", where he goes to Arkham Asylum to kill the Joker, but Batman stops him. Clayface later goes on trial for his crimes, with Hugo Strange giving him a clean bill of mental health. He is put on probation: if he uses his powers again, he will be put back in Arkham. Clayface becomes Ethan Bennett again, and gets a job from his friend, Bruce Wayne.

When the Joker breaks out of Arkham to wreak chaos, Ethan becomes determined to save others from his fate, and becomes Clayface again in an attempt to stop the Clown Prince of Crime. At first, he and Batman work together to bring the crazed supervillain down, but after Batman confronts him for his violation of court orders, Ethan feels betrayed. He becomes Clayface permanently and is put back in Arkham.

In the episode "Grundy's Night," a creature known as Solomon Grundy, an old legend, is attacking Gotham on Halloween. It soon turns out that he's really Clayface in disguise. Batman and Clayface fight in a wax museum where Batman defeats him and Clayface is sent back to Arkham Asylum.

In the episode "Clayfaces," Ethan promises to give up his life of crime to use his powers for good. Bennett seems to have finally reformed. He tracks down and captures the Joker, disguising himself as the Joker's henchmen: Punch and Judy. He hands him over the police without using excessive force, and turns himself in to the authorities, who take him to Arkham Asylum. However, Bennett has not completely regained Bruce Wayne's (and Batman's) trust. He is eager to leave Arkham and continue working as a police officer, although Batman refuses to consider this request until Bennett is cured, citing he could easily go back to crime. Ethan then fights a new Clayface. Together, Ethan and Batman confront Basil Karlo, the new Clayface. At the end of the episode, Ethan is cured from his condition when Batman fires an antidote into the two, and he is taken away to Arkham. While Ethan has been completly cured of his mutation, Basil Karlo still retains his powers.


But whatever, I'll stop cross discussing "The Batman" and "B:TAS" :P
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:38 PM   #42
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The Riddler's introduction in Batman TAS presented him as a disgruntled video game developer, which was memorable to me for the totally random Super Mario Bros sound effects that they used when showing his game. I don't know if I was more amused that they used actual sounds from Mario or annoyed that they made absolutely no sense in combination with what was happening in the game.

I think my favourite episode was Joker's Favor. The whole episode was pretty much a showcase of Mark Hamill's voice acting talent combined with some of the Joker's best lines ("Well look at the size of that cake, man!") It also features Batman actually laughing at a joke. This was the episode that turned me into a fan of the series and the Joker in particular.
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:59 AM   #43
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Joker's Favor is a good episode. There are a lot of "best moments" one wants to point to in that episode from the beginning all the way to the end, so that's always a good sign.

I often wonder (and then look it up, and then forget the answer, rinse and repeat) what Mark Hamill's response is to his fame as the voice of the Joker in Batman: the Animated Series. How for many, many fans, Hamill will be more remembered for his voice acting roles than for his cinematic ones. Does he enjoy this fact, especially after years of being annoyed that people ran up to him and said "HEY! I KNOW YOU! YOU'RE LUKE SKYWALKER! "? Or is it to him nothing more than a second Luke Skywalker phenomenon and it pisses him off just as much? I hope he likes it. I hope he's been able to appreciate the fans' gratitude for his amazing interpretation of how the Joker should sound.
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Old 08-06-2015, 10:32 AM   #44
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Mark Hamill discusses how he got the part. It's a fun little video, a must-see for any B:tAS fans. Mark delivers a speech from the show in character and absolutely nails it, even though it's been decades since the recording and he's delivering live on stage in front of an audience instead of in a recording studio.

Apparently Tim Curry was originally to voice the Joker but studio execs felt that his performance was too identifiable, too recognizably Tim or another of his characters. (Some speculate it might've sounded too similar to Pennywise the Clown from the film adaptation of Steven King's It.)

For comparison of Mark's performance, you can hear part of the original eulogy here. Aside from Harley Quinn's punctuating sobs, it's pretty much just as Mark performed it in the first video.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:33 PM   #45
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Yeah I like that talk, and a lot of other ones that Hamill does about his work. You can overegg how fantastic the 90s Joker was but I think he's probably the only celebrity that I would ever go up to and ask them to do a quote.
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:29 AM   #46
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Lil' Bluey

It's funny this thread got bumped since I've strangely been on a big Batman binge recently. Been browsing a bunch of clips from various animated series/films (including Justice League) and games, such as the eulogy Talon linked. It started with stumbling on the creepy scene from the Batman Beyond movie where...

Spoiler: show
Joker physically and psychologically tortures Robin into becoming his protegé, resulting in Robin killing the Joker. o-o It was the uncensored version too. (Also led me to read into the Jason Todd debacle. Joker is some sick twisted shit man, even when he wasn't Heath Ledger.)


I didn't watch much of either B:TAS or Batman Beyond when I was younger because of their dark atmospheres, but I never realized how downright disturbing kids' programs could be back then. Compared to the live-action '60s series (which I coincidentally caught a couple episodes of on TV the other day - I swear this stuff just keeps popping up), it was certainly surprising to see how the cartoon was the less campy of the two.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:02 AM   #47
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The scene in your spoiler box is one of the most fucked up things I have ever had the displeasure to witness. I have watched the Batman Beyond movie exactly once and, because of that scene, never again. Never have I been more disappointed in a gift I asked my parents for and received.
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:55 AM   #48
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I think there's a balance to be had.

On the one hand, it's Batman, and nowadays the default pattern is to have this be dark and disturbing. TAS was part of that and for that reason I loved that movie. It's fantastic, the scene we're talking about is beautifully done, perfectly written and executed. If you can't handle that, don't watch a Batman movie, frankly.

On the other hand, it's fundamentally a kids show and that scene is probably a little much. I forget what the film was rated but the Batman Beyond universe was always a little dark. The JLU crossover was also a little dark for a kids show, as were one or two episodes. Inque in the Batcave springs to mind. The second episode of BB has Freeze allow himself to be killed because all he knows has been lost, the despair he feels is palpable. That's a valuable thing to talk about but still, a bit heavy.
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:11 PM   #49
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I don't think it's fair to chastise people for getting disgusted that there was some Clockwork Orange snuck into their Batman. Nothing in the films (prior or subsequent) or the TV series (prior or subsequent) comes anywhere near to where the Batman Beyond scene in question goes. (And it is specifically just that one scene. The rest of the film is as innocuous as all other Batman cinema and television.)

Even in the comics, I'd say that some 95-99% of the 20th century Batman comics and 90-95% of the 21st century Batman comics aren't anywhere near as fucked up as the scene in question. For every Alan Moore's "The Killing Joke," there are ten to twenty other perfectly harmless stories, stories that can still be considered exciting, edgy, even dark. Even modern popular story arcs like Injustice are nowhere near as deranged, sick, or twisted as the Batman Beyond scene. (At least not from what I've seen. Maybe I haven't seen enough!)

This is not about whether the scene is enjoyable or not. This is about your assertion that people disturbed by the scene have no business enjoying Batman in the first place.
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:21 PM   #50
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I don't buy it personally, for one thing the very existence of the Red Hood negates your argument to a large degree. I think though that the references to rape, murder, torture and suicide in most Batman mediums since the 80s has desensitised me to the scene in question. Watching Brave and the Bold or that series directed by the guy who did Jackie Chan TAS, that scene would be completely inappropriate, but you weren't. You were watching Batman Beyond. So the addendum to my previous post would be "don't watch a film based in this Batman universe".

But disgust is subjective so people can react how they like in their own heads. If you didn't like it you didn't like it!
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