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Old 01-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #1
Lonely Cubone
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Cubone UPN Monotype Tournament

Here is the draw for types
Here are some rules


Some time after the rousing success that was Talon's excellent Champion's Tournament, I fancy giving something similar but different a crack, and would very much appreciate a few other people joining in. I'm not Talon, so don't expect it to be quite as well organised, but hopefully it'll be every bit as fun

Timings: I think one of the things we learnt from Talon's tournament is that people are fairly good at playing the matches in their own time, and whilst one or two people may more limited net access, you can still get a Tournament through fairly quickly- as a result I won't be determining a fixture order or anything like that, just asking people to battle and upload their videos as and when they can.

Sign Ups: For obvious reasons, there are up to 17 slots available. If we get that many, great, but if not then it's not a problem- I hope with the success of the last one, we might well get there though. Will keep signups open for a few days at least.

Type Allocation: I will RNG this, nobody gets to pick. If anyone really hates their type, they can swap with anyone else who agrees to it. I'm not rolling a dice on Webcam though, y'all are going to have to trust me a bit.

Building Your Squad: This is fairly simple. Like in Talon's tournament, your monsters will be set in terms of item, moveset and EV allocations at the start of the Tournament, and you have a squad of up to 9 from which to choose the six you battle with in any particular matchup. I'm not asking you to send me the nine or anything, we'll be able to see if anyone exceeds it from the videos and as it's all friendly, I don't think that's likely. The Pokémon rules are:
  • Every Pokémon in your squad must have your type (either as a primary or secondary)
  • You may have no more than two Pokémon from the same evolutionary line
  • The Pokémon's movesets, items etc. are fixed from the first time they are used
  • Ban List TBC but the obvious ubers plus Drought Ninetales and Drizzle Politoed are obvious ones

Thoughts on a ban list are welcomed, personally I'd like to see a fair few UU Pokemon getting some use so I'm fine with banning everything legendary/demi-legendary but it does rather screw over the poor sod who gets Dragon- I'll leave that open to debate for now.

Sign ups then, who's keen?

1. Lonely Cubone
2. Concept
3. DaveTheFishGuy
4. Ethereal
5. Phoopes
6. SP-Eevee
7. Holy Emperor Kuno
8. Yuki-N
9. DaisyInari
10. Firewater
11. Kairne
12. Talon87
13. Empoleon Dynamite
14. Mewmaster007
15. Quintowill
16. Yougirasu
17. Kindrindra

Edit: I forgot to state clearly that this would be on Pokemon Online. It will be on Pokemon Online. Thanks lovers.

Last edited by Lonely Cubone; 01-07-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #2
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Hopping on the monoteam train.
I hope that none of the pokemon have mono.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #3
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I'm interested in this tournament. Beam Sign me up, Scotty!
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #4
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:58 PM   #5
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I'm in~
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #6
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Ooh, sign me up again! Last one was so fun. ^^

If possible, I'd also like to reserve a spot on behalf of my lil sis (DaisyInari)~ She's on vacation right now so she might not get a chance to see this.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #7
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sup, if it's on Pokemon Online, go for it.

i'm in.

I am also curious on the sand, is that banned too (Hail/Sand) or just no Chlorophill/Drought abuse.

/there should be no banning of anything that's not uber or non- standard rules.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:07 PM   #8
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I am in
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As may be expected though, our clear winner here was Kairne, ASB's champion of prioritizing the pokemon you like over those that are objectively better. I mean, one of his mains is a Watchog.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:09 PM   #9
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Weather Conditions aren't banned, just Drought and Drizzle- if you want Sun, set it up- the Pokemon doing it I don't think have been officially released yet- if I'm wrong then fine. I'm up for negotiation on any of that anyway, and my ban list is likely to be minimal, but we'd better have something otherwise we'll see 17 different typed Arceuses.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:15 PM   #10
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>the Pokemon doing it I don't think have been officially released yet

http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/show...2-DW-Abilities

I'm pretty sure they have been, since both are VGC legal but I might be wrong.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:16 PM   #11
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Ah, that must have changed fairly recently. Well, I'll leave it open for debate but my personal feeling is that Drought/Drizzle are too big of an advantage for their respective types.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:19 PM   #12
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Ah, that must have changed fairly recently. Well, I'll leave it open for debate but my personal feeling is that Drought/Drizzle are too big of an advantage for their respective types.
I agree. I think that the banlist should be Smogon's list, plus Drought and Drizzle bans. Other than that, I'm don't feel strongly that there's a need for any other restrictions need to be put in place. MAYBE for the Dragon type user have a limit on the amount of pseudo-legendaries used per battle, but once again I don't feel strongly that that needs to be put in place.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:20 PM   #13
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Smogon's list contains Excadrill, can anyone explain that one to me? (Also Blaziken, but I understand that if not agree with it). Personally I'd allow both but yeah, majority rules.

And the Dragon user has a lot of very good Pokémon but they pretty much all share a 4x weakness so literally every team that can will pack an Ice move, double edged sword of being the obvious favourite is that everyone will tool up to beat you.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:20 PM   #14
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Interested, but willing to drop out if you get 18+ sign-ups. Since I don't have to be the one to organize it this time, time shouldn't be an issue for me. If it becomes an issue, I can let you know in advance.

===============================

Regarding banning übers or demi-übers: I don't see the point in banning non-legendaries to be perfectly honest. A team that can't navigate around Blissey on a mono-Normal team deserves to lose IMO. A team that can't navigate around Garchomp, Salamence and Dragonite on a mono-dragon team deserves to lose IMO. Sure, not every mono-typed team has access to ice-type attacks (let alone ice-type priority!) to take out dem dragons, but most do and for the ones that don't, dem's da brakes, kid. Not every element can expect to win against every other element. Some simply have better move pools or better resistances than others.

I will caution that if you're really worried about things getting too out of hand in terms of fairness, you can playtest with a small group of people before launching the tournament proper and, if the playtests seem to indicate that a particular element is "broken" with a no-holds rule policy (e.g. "Oh man, mono-steel is just TOO GOOD. It completely rapes 2 out of every 3 teams without even trying"), then something you could consider doing is handicapping the more powerful elements by restricting their teams' slots from six to five, or by forcing them to declare who's on their team before the match starts while the opponent need not do that, or something. Personally, and for a casual tourney, I think this is pushing it way too far, but it's still what I think I'd rather see than see you ban every single dragon except for Flygon, Altaria, and Druddigon.

Allowing people to have 2+ from the same evolutionary line could be a problem. I know I was pretty unsympathetic earlier with the "you deserve to lose if you can't bypass Blissey " line, but having both Blissey -and- Eviolite Chansey on the same team, and giving them completely different movesets (e.g. one is the team healer and ToxicStaller while the other is the Thunderwaver and Seismic Tosser, or something) could be construed as an unfair advantage, particularly against elements which really don't have much in the way of good, reliable physical STAB against Blissey. (E.g. Psychic. Starmie's Psycho thingamajig was a 3HKO on a Blissey. This is with STAB and it being on Starmie ffs. 3HKO. a.k.a. not a KO when we're talking WishStall Blissey. Pretty sure the only Fighting-type moves most traditionally special Pokemon get are Aura Sphere or Focus Blast, i.e. things that Blissey doesn't mind at all.) The problem is aggravated, of course, if by "no more than 2 in each line" you were actually allowing people to double-dip for the same stage at least once, in which case THIS is why you're having to worry about your dragon-themed team being broken. (Why, hello, two Dragonites, a Salamence, a Garchomp, and two Kingdras! How nice of you to stop by!)

I guess you could make a "the following Pokemon are disallowed for the no-more-than-2-of policy" list, but that's more work on your part. Would be easier to just say "no double-dipping. Sorry." If you were wanting to allow the double-dipping so that some of the more pitiful elements could stand a fighting chance in this tournament, then again: maybe it'd be better if you came out and said it, "These elements are too good and will be handicapped in the following ways. These elements are too bad and will not be handicapped." So that, for example, if was decided (made-up example) that electric types on the whole were pretty shitty but that dragons on the whole were pretty good, then the electric guy would be allowed to carry both Volt Absorb Lantun and Water Absorb Lanturn (TROLOLOL) while the dragon guy would be limited to 1 Of per creature line, no exceptions. It'll be important for you to put your foot down on this now rather than after the tournament starts because I can promise you that either way you side on this you're going to have a supremely whiny whiner whining about his poor luck of the draw. (E.g. the electric guy if you don't create handicaps, the dragon guy if you do and he feels he keeps getting singled out.)

Lots of stuff to consider, dude. A monotype tourney is not easy. It's why I didn't rush into it. Best of luck to you, though. I hope it's a fun one.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #15
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Drizzletoed and Droughtales have been released since foreverz. But I still think that they should remained banned, or atleast Drizzle. Most Fire types are already frail and a huge asset to sun teams (Chlorophyll) is only available to grass types. Water types are given numerous abilities that benefit in the rain and there are tons of bulky waters out there that can take hits and hit back hard thanks to rain. Anyways I won't be joining, just wanted to clarify.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:25 PM   #16
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You raise some reasonable points on the duplicates issue (albeit in a really excessively long manner, you really do need to be more concise so people actually read your posts) and it's a fair one- I was thinking primarily about those types which aren't blessed with many Pokemon, although I suppose five generations in there isn't a type left without nine available families as far as I know. Anyone think of a good reason for me to leave that clause in?
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:26 PM   #17
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Signing up.

I'd link to all the ban discussion for Excadrill but I don't really mind who's banned or not.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:33 PM   #18
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The huge advantage Blaziken gets from Speed Boost coupled with his already monsterous attack made him broken. Excadrill sucks without sand to activate his sand rush so using him on a steel mono would be useless. On a ground mono atleast there's Hippowdon. Even with Sand Rush activated, he has quite a few more checks and counters to him than Blaziken so I don't see it wrong if Excadrill was allowed.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:33 PM   #19
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While I do agree with Talon, a type that doesn't have many useable Pokemon is Bug. The only Bug types that are OU are Volcarona, Forretress, and Scizor. Since those are the only ones from that type that are OU, I would suggest making an exception on "Only one Pokemon from an evolutionary line" with Bug, since Scyther and Scizor would be all right on the same team IMO.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:35 PM   #20
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A lot of types get screwed OU wise, that's what makes it fun. Also I'd get rid of the "same evo line" thing for everyone 8ut dragons. They're the only ones short on Pokemon, really.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:37 PM   #21
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>Implying you have to only use OU Bugs

Yanmega and Venomoth are sad now.

(yes I've not battled much in the last year and a half shut up that's not the point)
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #22
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All I'd say on all this OU stuff is that it's a fun Tournament. If you want to run six OU Pokemon then good for you, but I'll be running a Vileplume if I get the slightest chance.

And Kuno, the two of one evo line rule is most dodgy for Dragons in my view- dealing with two Garchomps is not really reasonable. Maybe a Garchomp and a Gabite, but things like Eviolite Chansey get tricky, so may just go back to unique- Dragon can get 9 different Pokemon so it's not a major issue.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #23
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Yanmega <--- This Pokemon sucks nowadays

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>Implying you have to only use OU Bugs

Yanmega and Venomoth are sad now.

(yes I've not battled much in the last year and a half shut up that's not the point)
I'm aware. I for one, think Scolipede is awesome. And Venomoth can be used effectively, but Yanmega is pretty much stupid to use in today's metagame, sorry to inform you.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:41 PM   #24
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I can't say I've ever used 'mon based on how viable they are, but then again I used to get looked down on just for trying to avoid using certain OU stuff back when I was in the OSL (never used Scizor, for instance).

I used to run Yanmega and it was pretty swish. Not sure how things could have changed so drastically in the transition to Gen V (especially with Stealth Rock being less widespread) but there you go.
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:45 PM   #25
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A lot of types get screwed OU wise, that's what makes it fun. Also I'd get rid of the "same evo line" thing for everyone 8ut dragons. They're the only ones short on Pokemon, really.
There's 9 dragon lines. Maybe 11, I'm pretty sure [email protected] without Soul Dew was okay last time I played comp so I don't think it'd be too limited.
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