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Old 11-05-2011, 09:46 AM   #26
Lady Kuno
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I like the Round Robin. Btw who are the two extra trainers?
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:59 AM   #27
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Round Robin is good for me, I'd like to battle everyone if possible.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:01 AM   #28
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Concurring with Kuno and Elsie on the Round Robin thing. I just fancy battling people, round robin gives me more chances to do that (as I'd almost certainly go out fast :p)
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:04 AM   #29
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Square Sparrow.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:05 AM   #30
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I'm gonna go with Option A, as I'd think it would be fun to fight everyone. Longer yes, but entertaining.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:08 AM   #31
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Signing up. Option A/3 seems plausible.
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Trainer Level: 5
Referee Grade: B
Wins (DQ): 51 (5) Losses (DQ): 27 (6) Draws: 3
KOs: 135 TP: 294 SP (Earned): 0 (0)

Anime Style Battling | Fizzy Bubbles | Wild Future
Thanks to Pengyzu for the UserBar!

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Old 11-05-2011, 10:35 AM   #32
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How Trainers Will Be Assigned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Emperor View Post
Btw who are the two extra trainers?
What I've decided to do is is to ask you (if you'd be so kind ) to do the dice rolls for us on Livestream. Everyone needn't be there at once: all we need do is record the stream as evidence so that there are no hurt feelings or this or that regarding who gets what. Once we know how many people we have for certain and who they are, we can go ahead and assign trainers via these dice rolls. This will take place some time tomorrow (after registration is locked and the format has been decided).

As for who the two (or more) extra trainers will be, it will make sense if I explain the dice rolls to you. (Assume there are nine people in the tourney for the sake of this post). We'll get a D10 and roll it. 10 is ignored, 1 thru 9 initially count. Before the stream begins, I will have supplied to you the list of nine trainers and their numbers. Sample below:
1 - Alder
2 - Cynthia
3 - Elite 4
4 - Wallace
5 - Green/Blue
6 - Red
7 - Elite 4
8 - Steven
9 - Lance
We'll just go through the list of UPNers who entered the competition and roll dice for them, one at a time, to assign to them a trainer at random. As each trainer gets assigned to a UPNer, they will be removed from the pool by way of saying "when the D10 turns up that number, it now no longer counts as anything and Kuno will re-roll." When we get down to six remaining trainers, the order of the remaining trainers is preserved but you can switch to a D6 (so you don't keep rolling duds). For example, say I go first and get Wallace. Say Concept goes second and gets Steven. Say Tdos goes third and gets Cynthia. What the list would then look like for the two D6 rolls would be:
1 - Alder
2 - Elite 4
3 - Green/Blue
4 - Red
5 - Elite 4
6 - Lance
Then you'd roll a D6 twice for two more UPNers before we re-scrunch the list and move to a D4. For example, say Alder and Red get picked. Then it'd become:
1 - Elite 4
2 - Green/Blue
3 - Elite 4
4 - Lance
And we just roll the D4 until all four remaining trainers are assigned. Sound good?

Now that I've explained all this, I can finally answer your question. Say someone rolls a dice roll and they get an Elite 4 ticket. What that means is, they sit tight until we've rolled all the other trainers (including the other E4 ticket). After we've finished with the main round, we then bust out the D4 for the first person who got an E4 ticket and we do a special Elite 4-only dice roll for them. The initial pool will be all Gen II Elite 4:
1 - Will
2 - Koga
3 - Bruno
4 - Karen
If he gets somebody that he ab-so-lute-ly does not want, then he may ask you for a re-roll. He's free to nominate one replacement, and he can choose from the entirety of the Elite 4 pool. (Say he rolls Bruno, doesn't want Bruno, and wants Shauntal instead. He would ask you to nix Bruno and add Shantaul to the pool.) You then re-roll the D4 for him one time. Whoever he gets that time, he's stuck with. No take-backs. (So say he abandons Bruno in the hopes of getting Shauntal but now he gets Koga instead and he's like "Neuuuuuuuuu! ;_;" Too goddamn bad. ^^; We don't have all day and this is a very casual tourney that I'm already making way too complex as is. lol Take Koga and proudly represent! The Shinobi Master of Fuschia City!) After his turn is complete, it's now the other guy's turn to roll for his first time. Same procedure, except this guy obviously can't take who the first guy took. Also, the pool is reset to the way it was before (with Will, Koga, Bruno, and Karen all present). So for example, say Guy #2 goes and he rolls a 2. That's Koga's original number. So since Koga was indeed taken by Guy #1, Guy #2 needs to roll again immediately. Say he then rolls a 1 for Karen but is like "Karen? No way! " That's the point where he then gets to make his own replacement nominee and ask for one final re-roll.

Folks are encouraged to be there for the livestream if they can be but it's by no means required. However, if you're assigned an E4 ticket, you will need to attend a livestream (whether it's the first one or a later second one) so Kuno can roll for you. And if you're not available for your dice re-roll during Stream #1 (should you even want a re-roll) but the other E4 ticket holder is, you will lose your spot in line for E4 re-rolls and the other guy will get to do his re-roll first. This is just so we can hurry things along and not drag drafting out. For everyone else, attending the livestream won't make a difference: you get who you get and you can't change it. I repeat: for people who successfully roll a Champion on their first try, there are no re-rolls allowed. You get who you get. Re-rolls are only available to E4 ticket holders as a conciliatory measure since (typically) E4 trainers are facing an uphill battle against the majority of the Champion teams. The point of asking Kuno to do it on camera is so that there can be eyewitnesses to the fairness of the dice rolls (i.e. no accusations of lying about RNG rolls). The benefit of doing it on Livestream is that he can record the stream as evidence and you can check it out later at your own leisure if you don't believe us when we tell you who you got.

I realize this is a lot to read. However, I hope it makes sense out of how this will go down.

P.S. If Kuno says "No," then we'll try to find somebody else with a webcam and DND dice. ^^; I have the dice but no camera.

EDIT: Should we happen to break 12 members before registration closes tomorrow, the Elite 4 pool will be expanded to include Gen IV's Elite 4, totaling eight possible E4 you could get on your first E4 ticket holder roll instead of four possible trainers. Just keep that in mind.

Last edited by Talon87; 11-05-2011 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #33
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Yeah that's fine. Do you want me to do it now?
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:40 AM   #34
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You can't because we don't know how many people wish to compete and therefore what the roll count should be. It can't happen any sooner than tomorrow right after registration closes.

Thank you for accepting, though. Do you have physical dice, too? That would be ideal. You could just have the camera pointing down at your desk as you roll the die.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:42 AM   #35
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Yeah I got the usual. 4s, 6s, 8s, 10s, 12s, 20s.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:49 AM   #36
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Talon, I appreciate the effort you're putting in here and it's a great idea, but this is a friendly tournament and I don't think anyone's likely to kick off if you just tell them who they are, I'm really not that bothered about watching a video of someone rolling some dice to prove that I got my character by a completely unbiased method.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:55 AM   #37
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I'll give this a try. Total newbie here, never done competitive battling before. But it souds fun, so heck, why not? =3
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:00 AM   #38
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Lol, I realize I'm going to extreme measures. hahaha It's just that I don't want people feeling gypped out of an opportunity to fanboy it or fangirl it up representing who they want. We can't just allow people to pick who they want because, duh, there's going to be a lot of people picking the same ones and, as per the theme of this contest, I'd rather not allow double-dipping of characters. I think it's more fun to have us each represent a character. But in order to do that, we can't allow people to lay dibs. So we have to assign them. And assigning a character to a child who that child doesn't want is very likely to produce rage-tears. No thanks. ^^; If Kuno's willing to go along with this (and he apparently is), then I'm all the more grateful to him and we should be able to leave no doubts in anyone's minds that they got who they got.

Anyway, we can't assign yet because registration's still open and I promised not to close it until tomorrow. Every time I think I want to close it, someone else signs up. Which shows that there's still interest trickling in. I mean, hell, the thread's only two days old. It's not like this should be surprising. How long did Loki leave registration open for his more serious tourney? A week? Two weeks? I'm leaving mine open for only three days. XD But it's the least I can do to allow people a chance to sign up.

That stated, I may actually cap registration at 12 members. (Which we're one away from right now with Celebii151's and lilbluecorsola's additions to the roster.) This is so that we don't get too many battles. (6 pairs per round times 11 rounds for sixty-six battles to keep track of if we do a Round Robin tournament with 12 people.) In which case I guess I could ask Kuno to do it today after all. XD But then I'd be a big dirty liar for having promised that registration closed tomorrow. Thoughts?
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:03 AM   #39
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I think it's fine if a tournament caps at a certain number of people.

Plus this is on PO. It's so easy to organize/get Pokemon ready for battle that doing one again later on (or soon) won't be too difficult.


If it is going to be 12, any chance you can write who the new trainers are and what Pokemon they have? I like to theorycraft based on who is available.


Edit: I'm also pretty sure nobody would want who I want to pick so.. XP
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Emperor View Post
If it is going to be 12, any chance you can write who the new trainers are and what Pokemon they have? I like to theorycraft based on who is available.
If it's 12, the new additions to the Elite 4 pool would be Aaron, Bertha, Flint, and Lucian. These are the Elite 4 from Generation IV (Cynthia's generation) and are included either for their strength, their team diversity, or else the fact that they're not Glacia. XP (Poor, poor Glacia.) I considered including Gen V's because of how tough many people found them during Story Mode but (1) Story Mode's Story Mode and (2) unfortunately they each only have six Pokémon to choose from and some of them are sorely lacking in the defensive typing department. (E.g. that poor bastard Marshal is sporting a ridiculous 2x or 4x weakness to Psychic and a 2x or 4x weakness to Flying across his entire goddamn team of six.) If we were doing "pick the E4 manually" (Option 4 in that one vote from earlier), then I would probably have tapped Will, Karen, Aaron, and Agatha initially and then proceeded to include Bruno, Flint, Shauntal, and possibly Caitlin (dunno about that last one).

I should explain "Why Agatha?" in the next post. It may influence how the Elite 4 people draft. It will also certainly influence how whoever gets Lance chooses to use Lance.

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Edit: I'm also pretty sure nobody would want who I want to pick so.. XP
Really? XD I'm such a typical fanboy. I know that my top three picks would be three of the most heavily-desired picks of the lot. (And no, I won't say who, but I'm pretty sure you could figure it out. ) But yeah, I keep thinking to myself that even if I get someone I thought was terri-weak when playing the games that I'm not going to let it show during this tourney. I'm going to go full-out with whoever I get and totally represent.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:52 AM   #41
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This will be reiterated in the official tournament rules post (to come later), but for now, I want to explain why Agatha might be a preferred choice over some other Elite 4 members. The rationale behind this is, the only species clause in place in this tournament is that you can't use more than what we know the characters owned in the games. Translation: if you're running Steven Stone then you can only have one Metagross because he only ever used one Metagross at a time in battles; however, if you're running Lance, you have the option to run as many as three Dragonites on one team; if you're running Agatha, then you have the option to run as many as two Gengars on one team; etc. Needless to say, this will not only affect how the UPNers using these Champions or Elite Four members decide to use them but it will also affect how their opponents prepare for those matches. It could be a very powerful thing to run three Dragonites on one team but it could also be a very perilous thing. Whether it's brilliant or foolish is up to you and your opponents to determine in the course of battle. But I'm throwing that out there for those of us who may draw Elite Four tickets: don't think that there's going to be a species clause which restricts you to only using one Flygon (Drake) or one Gengar (Agatha) or one Banette (Phoebe). You may use as many members of a particular species as that Elite Four member or Champion demonstrated that they owned separately (by virtue of summoning separately in one single battle).

NOTE: Alternate movesets on a creature in different battles do not mean the person had more than one of that creature! This should be duh-obvious but I'm going to mention it so we avoid any bitching later on: no, I don't care that so-and-so's such-and-such had these moves pre-defeating the E4 but then these moves post-defeating the E4. That isn't the point. If they only ever had the one guy on their team at once, then you can only bring one of those to battle in this tourney. (Make-believe example: if Agatha had had a Dusknoir pre-beating the game and it knew Will-o-Wisp but then she had a Dusknoir post-beating the game with Rest instead, that is not evidence that she owns two different Dusknoirs and so no you may not bring two Dusknoirs into battle in this tourney if you draft Agatha.)
_________________________________

Another thing which I'll bring up in the official rules, and this should also go without saying but I'll say just so it's on the record: no, you may not use higher evolved forms or alternate evolved forms for a given creature if that Champion or E4 member did not own said creature. For example, Karen may not use Bellossum (an alternate form of Vileplume) nor may Agatha use three Gengars (by way of "evolving" her one Haunter). Karen did not have Bellossum, therefore no Bellossum. Agatha did not have three Gengars, therefore no third Gengar.

Anyway, more rules later. I need to draft an official rules post that consolidates it all together.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:55 AM   #42
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Are you going to have more than 12 (provided 12 join) to allow rerolling without taking someone elses roll?
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:05 PM   #43
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No. I think I explained it in the long dice roll mechanics post, but I'll try again much more briefly here:

Say there are 12 of us and the randomized list of trainers looked like this:
1 - Steven
2 - Green/Blue
3 - Elite Four ticket
4 - Elite Four ticket
5 - Red
6 - Alder
7 - Cynthia
8 - Wallace
9 - Elite Four ticket
10 - Lance
11 - Elite Four ticket
12 - Elite Four ticket
Seven Champions plus five Elite Four. You would roll the dice (as explained in the first post) to assign people to their characters. The people who are assigned E4 tickets just sit tight and wait until everyone's been rolled a character. Then the round of E4 dice rolls begin, first rolling their initial character, then allowing them the chance for a re-roll, and proceeding like this throughout the queue until all five E4 ticket holders have been assigned an E4 member.

So let's look at this E4 nonsense a bit more closely. This time, there are eight trainers, listed in order because why not:
1 - Will
2 - Koga
3 - Bruno
4 - Karen
5 - Aaron
6 - Bertha
7 - Flint
8 - Lucian
E4 ticket holder #1 rolls and gets a 6. "Bertha!? D: No thank you!" he says. He asks for a re-roll. He nominates Shauntal to replace Bertha. Kuno graciously re-rolls and ... 3. That means ticket holder #1 gets Bruno and is stuck with Bruno.

Now the E4 board is reset to the original list (i.e. no Shauntal is in it). Since Bruno's already taken, it means that if Kuno rolls a 3 for ticket holder #2, then he needs to re-roll automatically. (This does not count as ticket holder #2's free re-roll.) So Kuno does re-roll and he gets an 8 this time. Lucian. Say ticket holder #2 says, "Mmmm...... thanks, but no thanks. Can we re-roll?" He nominates Agatha to replace Lucian for his re-roll. You re-roll for him and ... it's a 3. Bruno again. That means you need to re-roll automatically. So you do, and this time you roll a 2, Koga. That means that E4 ticket holder #2 is the proud owner of Koga. The board resets, and we move on.

So ... I don't think we need to have more than twelve characters if twelve people join, but it turns out that (incidentally) I will have 15 characters if 12 people join because I add E4 in blocks of four rather than adding them one by one. (At least that's the plan.)
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:06 PM   #44
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Welcome aboard, Celebii151 and YUKI.N! (A little late, I realize. ^^; )

=Current List of Competitors=
Talon87, Concept, Tyranidos, KratosAurion, blazeVA, Lonely Cubone, SP-Eevee, Holy Emperor, XanderKetsu, Celebii151, YUKI.N

=Round Robin votes=
Talon87, Holy Emperor, Lonely Cubone, Concept, Tyranidos, XanderKetsu, Celebii151

If we do a Round Robin format, which seems likely judging from the votes so far, then each round there are going to be six matches (assuming 12 people). It won't be possible to stagger that many matches so that everyone can watch everyone else play. Now granted, thanks to Kindrindra we now have the lovely option available to us of uploading our P-O battle logs to the web and posting them here for everyone else to enjoy at their leisure. But that isn't quite the same thing as watching a live match.

So, I'd like to propose a "modified Round Robin" where our matches are still going to follow the Round Robin format but we're not going to all fight one another in the same 3-hour or 4-hour window of time like you ordinarily would with a Round Robin tourney. Doing the normal thing would require getting 12+ people across three different continents to agree on a time in which the they could all play for 3+ hours straight. It just isn't going to happen. So instead of doing a traditional Round Robin, instead I think I'll tear a page out of Loki's manual and allow folks to schedule their own battles. However! There will be stipulations for when the Round Robin battles must be completed by and it's going to be pretty harsh. Brace yourselves!

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See a sample calendar here. Deadlines are in red, imaginary appointments to meet up with fellow UPNers are in cyan.

Rounds 1 and 2 must be completed by Friday, Nov 12 at midnight GMT.
Rounds 3 and 4 must be completed by Saturday, Nov 13 at midnight GMT.
Rounds 5 and 6 must be completed by Sunday, Nov 14 at midnight GMT.
Rounds 7 and 8 must be completed by Friday, Nov 19 at midnight GMT.
Rounds 9 and 10 must be completed by Saturday, Nov 20 at midnight GMT.
Round 11 must be completed by Sunday, Nov 21 at midnight GMT.

These are hypothetical times but I think they're pretty good. Let me know what you guys think. If I hear pretty good support for them, I'll announce that these are the official deadlines. If I hear pretty solid disapproval of them, then we'll fix things.

If we do things this way, there are two major advantages. The first advantage is the flexibility to make your own schedule. All I'm giving you is a set of ultimate deadlines. But you're encouraged to get your battles done as early as you want: heck, you could start battling mere hours after Kuno's finished livestreaming the dice rolls and you've prepped your teams on P-O, if you like. The second advantage is that if you guys post your appointment times in this thread, then your friends can come and watch when you two square off. This way people participating in the tournament needn't feel like they're not going to get to watch any of the matches live.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:14 PM   #45
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I hereby endorse the above post.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:19 PM   #46
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Sounds good to me, means that people don't have to back out if they're out on the night or whatever.
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Old 11-05-2011, 02:15 PM   #47
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Goody, I won't have internet access from the 23rd to 26th or something. The week after next will be quite hectic but I could probably squeeze in a couple rounds.
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:33 PM   #48
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I hereby approve all of this. Also, Round Robin please. Tdos is bad and should feel bad

Also, we can use any moveset, right? I might have forgotten.
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:40 PM   #49
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Tyranitar

Quote:
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Tdos is bad and should feel bad
What? I voted for Round Robin.
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:53 PM   #50
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You can use any legal moveset, yes. I'm still working on the rules post, and also not wanting to bog this thread down with too many replies. (Makes it less likely people who are AFK today will read through everything when they come back tonight or tomorrow.) But for now, if you're already trying to consider who/want you want to bring -- though that seems a bit premature to me ^^; since you're not statistically likely to get who you want, but whatever! If you're that excited, great! -- then I can go ahead and repeat the following team-building rules:
1 - a modified species clause. No repeats unless your trainer had repeats on their team at the same exact time. (e.g. Lance and his three Dragonites)

2 - any moveset, and not necessarily the movesets the characters used in the video games

3 - any creatures that I listed in the OP post. I'll edit the list to include Elite 4 members once we know which specific ones are being used. The lists are basically restricted to main series games and their remakes only. No Pokemon Stadium stuff or anime stuff or TCG stuff, etc.

Will hold off on more rules till later. But yes. Any legal moveset works. Hacked movesets not only won't be allowed but I don't think can be allowed with the P-O software. I'm pretty sure it barks at you if you try to make a team that is illegal for a particular generation, so never mind (say) trying to give a Steelix the move Teleport.
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