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Old 07-07-2011, 08:25 PM   #1
DaveTheFishGuy
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Roggenrola Explosion Clause

If a trainer forces a tie (at the end of the battle) by use of Explosion, Selfdestruct, Perish Song or Destiny Bond, they lose the battle.

This is used fairly frequently in competetive, since the strategy's looked down on over there. Should probably apply in ASB too since I've seen it used a few times. Rangeet vs Milo in 'bowl would've been less of a clusterfuck had Milo not forced a draw with Destiny Bond (going second). Similarly I've been kicking Zora's arse all over the place but he's just tied me due to Selfdestruct. And Kush reffing sillily.

Just throwing it out there. If you're doing so badly that you need to use a suicide move to force a tie, then you don't really deserve even that.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:27 PM   #2
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I agree with the principle but then what's the point in Ex/Self/LastResort?
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:29 PM   #3
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You can still use them mid-match to force a matchup tie/put a dent in your opponent's fresh Pokémon.

Just seems a bit silly that if a trainer is in blatant control of a match all the way through then gets tied by a suicide move the other trainer gets full points.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:30 PM   #4
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Hmm. I guess.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:31 PM   #5
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You'd need better rules than "sir, sir, hes's using Explosion near the end of the match bawwww".
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:31 PM   #6
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I agree with this idea, or at least adopting it officially for tournaments.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:32 PM   #7
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Why not make Exp/SD take longer to "charge" so that most Pokemon can gtfo? I would be against making a hard and fast rule like this. If you're being sat on by a Weezing and they can get off a slow charging SD and force a draw, you deserve to not get a win.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:33 PM   #8
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We should probably have this for tourneys (to keep it moving) and I wouldn't be totally against it for regular matches, but I don't want to say yes without any other opinion.

>Why not make Exp/SD take longer to "charge" so that most Pokemon can gtfo? I would be against making a hard and fast rule like this. If you're being sat on by a Weezing and they can get off a slow charging SD and force a draw, you deserve to not get a win.

Because you make the move a lot less useful then. This deals with the problem in one swift rule change instead of complicating the move.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:36 PM   #9
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Additionally, intelligent refs will be having more energy take longer to bring together anyway so the bigger the explosion the more time you have to run anyway.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:36 PM   #10
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Also since SPPf won't let me reply with pictures.
@ Dave in vs Zora thread.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:37 PM   #11
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>You'd need better rules than "sir, sir, hes's using Explosion near the end of the match bawwww".

If both Pokémon in the final matchup are KOd, resulting in a tie due to the use of one of the four moves, the user is considered the loser. Possibly Last Resort too, actually.

Bada-bing, bada-bam.

I personally ref Explosion/Selfdestruct/Last Resort taking a while to charge depending on energy, and i think quite a few other refs do too.

EDIT the first:
>Weebs
Yeah you actually need to explain that since Zora sorta lost by ordering Selfdestruct to force a tie.

Which is what this whole thread is about.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:39 PM   #12
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I'm just jocking you son.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:40 PM   #13
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We'd also need to clarify that if one is winning a match and use the moves they aren't made the loser. I don't want to see situations where someone has been dominating a match and decides to end it quickly by using Explosion only to suddenly be made the loser of the match.
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Also since SPPf won't let me reply with pictures.
@ Dave in vs Zora thread.
This amuses me.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:41 PM   #14
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If you're winning, why force a tie in the first place?
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:43 PM   #15
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This is all assuming its adopted, which, if I know Muyo like I do, will probably not happen.


inb4 Muyo adopts this just because I said he wouldn't.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:43 PM   #16
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If you're winning, why force a tie in the first place?
a) You don't necessarily die when using Explosion.

b) It's safe to assume I'm going to destroy SR's team over on SPPf. I may even do it without losing a pokémon. Suppose I decide to kill his last pokémon by using Explosion because I want the slot to do some levelling. Am I suddenly the loser because I used Explosion?
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:44 PM   #17
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Yo Weebs, say I can never be a Gym Leader.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:44 PM   #18
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>If you're winning, why force a tie in the first place?

If you do this, you deserve to lose.

Though maybe we should just ban the moves from Sleep Talk and Metronome rolls.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush View Post
a) You don't necessarily die when using Explosion.

b) It's safe to assume I'm going to destroy SR's team over on SPPf. I may even do it without losing a pokémon. Suppose I decide to kill his last pokémon by using Explosion because I want the slot to do some levelling. Am I suddenly the loser because I used Explosion?
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>You'd need better rules than "sir, sir, hes's using Explosion near the end of the match bawwww".

If both Pokémon in the final matchup are KOd, resulting in a tie due to the use of one of the four moves, the user is considered the loser. Possibly Last Resort too, actually.
a) Then it's not a tie so it doesn't count.

b) You'd still have Pokémon left, so it doesn't count.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:46 PM   #20
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Sleep Talk and Metronome derive half of their fun from the complete megafucking backfires that are possible.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:12 PM   #21
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I dunno, if the use of the move does make the result a tie, then perhaps the "winner" wasn't exactly winning the match by a lot. And I think someone said this before, but "winning" isn't exactly something that can be measured.

How often does this happen with people hating it such that it needs a ruling?
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #22
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*guilty of a perish song and explosion draw*
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #23
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Well it happened in the Pokebowl and caused all sorts of silly problems, which makes me support banning it in tournaments just because of the complications.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:22 PM   #24
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Having bested Zora in three matchups (Sceptile vs Granbull, Durant vs Illumise, Jynx vs Gorebyss), I wouldn't have had a problem (aside from the bitter taste) with him pulling a reversal and winning Gastrodon vs Camerupt. Just the fact that he went for the Selfdestruct since apparantly he could see no chance of winning seems... idk. Wrong.

Then again this is Zora we're talking about and he probably thinks 'sportsmanship' is something that Dorfs sail the seas on.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:31 PM   #25
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In his defence your orders were very open to being one
Rounded
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