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Old 07-12-2014, 02:21 PM   #101
Talon87
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I have nothing to offer but condolences. Here's selfishly hoping that Sailor Moon, also Toei-made, will be one of those nice quality exceptions that is owed to the extra effort they put into it. Given some of the voice acting all-stars who are on board with the project, I can't imagine that it will have been cheap. Judging from your posts and from the few episodes I've watched bits and pieces of over the years, PreCure does not seem to have enjoyed that level of dedication.

I wonder if PreCure in Japan is like DuckTales, Scooby-Doo, or Garfield in the United States in that its older series that are universally acclaimed by fans air as re-runs on some television network while its newer series that are universally panned are abandoned as soon as they complete their original run. In other words, I wonder if, even though modern PreCure series may suck, little kids in Japan can still watch the PreCure series which you believe are the best. I could probably try to find the answer to my question if I tried but I guess I don't care enough to do so.
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Old 07-12-2014, 08:29 PM   #102
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PreCure has arguably gotten worse from Futari wa onward, although the installments up through HeartCatch were different enough that you could substantially like one over another due to different taste.

Ultimately, I don't think it's "Scooby Doo syndrome" so much as it's "4Kids syndrome". HeartCatch was an intelligent show, which is why adults liked it. Suite was the first case where the show really felt "dumbed down" specifically to exclude adult fans, in spite of the other mild pandering that was increased, like the phantom yuriism. It's hard to write a good story of the same or superior quality as a previous work - Osamu Tezuka is legendary for being able to do so, and is often accused of stealing his assistant's ideas as the flip side of that coin - but in PreCure's case the drop-off is so dramatic I think it's due to a conscious effort to keep the anime a brain-free zone.

BBB says Toei "isn't trying" but given the amount of money invested in this show, I'm skeptical of that. Although, reputedly Kamen Rider has been terrible throughout all of the Heisei Era (with Showa, almost 25+ years ago, with the last good one) so I dunno. Maybe this is PreCure's ultimate fate: living death.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:59 PM   #103
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Looks like I have about a year to complete Jinsei wa Hikikomogomo!, because the release of Glitter Force could not have better timing.
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Old 12-20-2015, 09:53 PM   #104
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I'm watching Glitter Force right now!

LOL
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Old 01-10-2016, 01:01 AM   #105
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Never really said anything on Princess Precure, but it's an improvement over the previous years. Sadly I just can't get up the initiative to watch it. Precure is just getting more and more blatant in its product placement. New freaking toy every episode. That aside, this show has some good character development here and there, but it's piled under a huge load of "meh". I'm still downloading the episodes, so maybe I will pick it back up.

For the next Precure, Mahou Girls Precure, I wasn't even going to bother watching. The announcement that Yui Horie was the main girl in this one kind of changed that though. I swear I never hear her anymore outside of JC Staff shows, which I don't watch.
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:52 AM   #106
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My friend's brother is a big fan of Pretty Cure. In joking about the dub name for Smile (which is Glitter Force), he hinted at wanting to watch a PreCure with my friend and discussing it on their podcast. I told my friend what you told me a long time ago: that while some of the PreCures are pretty good (assuming you like PreCure), several of them are downright awful and the more recent ones have been mediocre at best. So he asked me, "Which one should I see?" And never having watched a Pretty Cure full series before, and their names all sounding so similar, I could not recall which were the ones you had recommended in the past.

So! Question time:

Q1. What are the two best Pretty Cure series in franchise history? If you can, clarify which of the two you think is the best one. If they're tied, okay.

Q2. If Futari wa wasn't an answer to Q1, should he still watch it? If it was an answer to Q1, okay, fine, we know he should watch it!

Q3. If he should watch Futari wa, should he start with it? Or should he start with some other one instead?

Q4. If Smile wasn't an answer to Q1, should he still watch it?

Q5. What are the top three PreCures he ought to avoid, and why?
Tastes vary. It's possible that his brother will highly recommend one of the shows on this list. I need to know why his brother is wrong so I can possibly save my friend some grief.
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Old 02-21-2016, 11:30 AM   #107
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Two best, ka...
  • HeartCatch PreCure is a very clear #1, as it's a mix of both DoReMi and PreCure. #2 would probably be Yes PreCure 5.
  • I would still recommend it, at least up through the first season of Futari wa. The anime was originally slated for 24-26 episodes and had to be emergency extended due to the sudden massive popularity. The famous Nagisa x Honoka episode ended up in the second season, when it really should have remained in the first. Max Heart isn't worth the time, except for the kick-arse opening.
  • This is an interesting question. It's really dependent on the person, but I would recommend it as the second show seen. HC, Yes 5 and Futari wa have the strongest character development, and Yes 5/Futari wa are the only two with actual romance in it. After that I'd say Fresh/Doki Doki have the best character development.
  • Smile is unique, as it's almost like a hyperactive parody of PreCure because of how silly it is, and it only superficially resembles the originals. You hear many of the same lines about friendship and courage, but they lake the emotional weight and sincerity of the earlier titles. Fresh and Doki Doki similarly make fun of the PreCure formula, in different ways, with different levels of emotional investment. I'd say compared to the later titles, Smile is more watchable (and it has one of the franchise's best fights in the first season), but it's a low totem pole show.
  • Max Heart, Happiness Charge, GoGoGo? This is honestly the hardest question (and I hope BBB weighs in) because the bad PreCure are bad for different reasons. The most prevalent problem is boring. PreCure is a 48 episode series so with heavy investment, the quality must remain high for it to not be a tortuous watch. HeartCatch and Yes 5 are probably the only ones with "serious" plots that remain good for the whole cour. Fresh is considerably sillier and light hearted, so it's a much easier watch all the way to the end. Very few PreCure have distasteful plot developments that frustrate the viewer.

    The second major problem is something of late, poor third-world outsourced animation. All of the recent PreCure - Maho Girls, Princess, Happiness Charge - have been poorly animated. Not quite as bad as Crystal, but comparable (same teams).

From best to blah:

HeartCatch
Futari wa
Yes 5
Splash Star
Fresh
Doki Doki
Smile
-The Rubicon-
Suite
Maho Girls
Princess
Happiness Charge
GoGoGo
Max Heart
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:13 PM   #108
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Q1: Heartcatch is the best Precure. No question about that. Second is a bit more difficult. To me, Yes! Precure 5 GoGo! was number 2, but it's almost universally claimed as one of the worst. Splash Star and Fresh are high up there was well.

Q2: Yeah. It's a solid enough show, and most of the other Precure shows and movies show homage to it somehow. Not sure if it would be in my top 2 if the second half stayed as strong as the first half, but it would be up there.

Q3: Doesn't matter, really. Whatever he feels like watching first. Besides Max Heart and GoGo, none of them are continuations of another one.

Q4: Yup! He needs to see how bad Precure can get! How dumb it can get if it panders to the wrong crowd. How much a character from it made Pikachu's voice sound like torture to me. How despite how bad it is, it's still the most popular freaking show in the franchise.

Q5: Max Heart, Suite, and Happiness Charge, I guess? Even the bad shows have something to give if you watch them. Max Heart and Happiness Charge are probably the only shows that don't have the sudden "quality hiccup" the bad shows sometimes have, where they're suddenly very good for an episode or so. Suite is okay, but dumb. Max Heart is insanely dull. Happiness Charge is just sloppy, despite having strong potential (I'm guess Sailor Moon Crystal took most of its budget and focus).

__________________________________________________ _________

It seems Doremi finally got tired of Precure as well. Kind of disappointing, but very understandable, considering they've been subbing bad/meh Precure shows for 5 years. I'm glad someone besides Commie picked up Mahoutsukai Precure. I don't think I could tolerate their 4Kids dub style subs.

I tried the first two episodes of Mahoutsukai Precure, or Yui Horie Precure, and while it's not great, I still kind of enjoyed the first two episodes. It might just be a superficial fascination with something new, so I'm still holding off before I can call it bad or good. Also I think this is the first Precure where the VAs actually sing the ED.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:49 PM   #109
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I personally haven't disliked GoGoGo so much, but the romance elements are far weaker in it (except Urara x Syrup) than Yes 5. Yes 5 had some amazing scenes like the boat where you genuinely wondered if the show was about to go hentai.

GoGoGo's weakness are the repetitive and vapid fights. From the character POV, it's strong. And the music is also a strength, while it was weaker in Yes 5.
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:33 AM   #110
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'll forward your answers to my friend and let him make an informed decision.

Looking at the sample artwork for each of the PreCures the other night, I did not think that HeartCatch PreCure! would have been the No.1 on your guys' lists. The characters look largely unfamiliar from the H scene (which is often, though not always, a good way to measure popularity) and the animation looks like it's one of those generi-21st century Saturday morning TV cartoons, not the No.1 in a decade-long franchise.

Again, judging from the sample art, I would have thought that any of these were likelier candidates for the No.1:
  • Fresh Pretty Cure!, because I always, always see fanart of the one girl who starts off as a villain and later becomes good
  • Smile PreCure!, just because it's insanely popular in the H scene. I also would've chalked it up as possibly being one of the worst ones, since it seems like it doesn't have the same sort of spirit that the show I'd imagine your guys' No.1 to have would have
  • Yes! PreCure 5, because there is this one H-artist I know in particular who absolutely adores this series and keeps drawing doujins and fanart of these girls even all these years after the series aired
Some of these, you guys have indicated are good. (Yes 5) Others, you've indicated are the cancer that is killing PreCure. (Smile) But still, I'm surprised -- based on the cover art alone -- to hear that HeartCatch is the No.1. I would've totally, totally pegged it for Bottom 3 material given the art style. Apparently not!
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:14 AM   #111
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HeartCatch takes the #1 slot because of its incredibly high production values and ridiculously developed characters. The only weaknesses are chronic to the franchise - basic plot and cookie-cutter main villain.

PreCure looks good in stills, but the animation can be very inconsistent. This is no more apparent than GoGoGo's Ganbalance de Dance. 0:43-0:57 illustrates this quite sharply with Cure Rouge having some pretty poor animation, and Cure Lemonade looking ridiculous.

HeartCatch has uniformly excellent animation throughout the whole series. The art is a matter of taste, I'd say. The lolicon in me does find the artwork of other PreCure much more attractive, but Umakoshi's style helps the viewer look past the "cute girls punching things" aspect of it.

That said, Talon, get a load of this. I hope you're stocked up on ammo today:

Spoiler: show


Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon87
Again, judging from the sample art, I would have thought that any of these were likelier candidates for the No.1:
  • Fresh Pretty Cure!, because I always, always see fanart of the one girl who starts off as a villain and later becomes good
  • Smile PreCure!, just because it's insanely popular in the H scene. I also would've chalked it up as possibly being one of the worst ones, since it seems like it doesn't have the same sort of spirit that the show I'd imagine your guys' No.1 to have would have
  • Yes! PreCure 5, because there is this one H-artist I know in particular who absolutely adores this series and keeps drawing doujins and fanart of these girls even all these years after the series aired
Fresh is an underrated title. It was also marked the turning point for PreCure, as all the shows since are descended from Fresh, rather than Futari wa, Yes 5 or Splash Star. The girl you are referring to was the star of an excellent plot-line.

Fresh is a staple of hentai for a few reasons:

-the designs are extremely sexual. The girls in Fresh, while the same age as in previous titles, are far more developed physically (i.e., all three have breasts). MKTN has the zettai ryouiki and the flirty personality, all the girls have frilly dresses with and show off the thighs.
-the name, which is very easily rendered as Flesh PreCure
-the timing. Fresh got a lot of exposure via Pixiv, which launched in September of 2007, and Fresh came out in February of 2009. Pixiv would later be a major launching pad for Smile's popularity.

I drew a comparison when watching Fresh between the heights. Fresh's girls look like 14 year olds within the context of the show. But compared to earlier titles, they look high school, when in reality the middle school girls of earlier titles look closer to elementary than high school. This is the same sensation watching Sailor Moon - the Scouts look like high schoolers until Mamoru walks in. Mamoru looks like he's in his 20's, but if you mentally adjust him to high school, the girls look middle school.

With Smile, it's popular not because of the character designs necessarily, but the personalities. Smile's girls were loud, obnoxious, otakufied stereotypes. Everything about them was exaggerated and I'm sure that struck a chord with a lot of otaku.

No PreCure since has had such blatant stereotypes. Most of the girls are fairly ordinary with a few mild-mannered preferences. Smile was utterly in-your-face.
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Old 07-10-2016, 02:38 AM   #112
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Go! Princess Precure
I decided to pick up where I left off with this. The last few episodes surprised the hell out of me. The show started off pretty dull. Not much happening besides your usual toy advertisements. In the last 20 or so episodes, the show became really good. I couldn't stop watching. They overplay the theme with dreams, but I like how they do the characters' struggles with their dreams. It's believable, and it had a really down-to-earth way to go with them. If only the first bits of the show was as good as the end. If it was, this could very well be one of the best Precure. I feel bad for putting this show off for a year.

Mahoutsukai Precure
This show is still enjoyable. Sadly it's still not much more than cute and endearing. I guess that's what you can expect from the character designers of Smile Precure. It's nowhere near as dumb as Smile Precure though.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:45 AM   #113
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Ever since Doki Doki Pretty Cure there have been many jokes about the next cliche onomatopoeia series title. It's especially funny because most of the onomatopoeias originate from a single song, Kimi to Yay! Yay! Yay!, the first ending of Smile. It seemed only fitting that Smile, the worst PreCure ever made, would be the cancerous source of the worst titles possible.

2017's PreCure does not disappoint. It does not disappoint at all.

Spoiler: show
Kirakira PreCure a la Mode
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