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Old 08-23-2015, 12:41 PM   #1976
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Gastro Acid is still a good and under appreciated move now I don't see how there isn't a reason to use it.
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Old 08-23-2015, 12:49 PM   #1977
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Gastro Acid (PO) -- The user vomits on the opponent. Although no damage is dealt, the acid in the vomit is constructed so that that the opponent will lose any damage boosts or reductions, as well as any increases or decreases in attack effectiveness (intimidation boosts, confusion resistances) gained through their SC for the remainder of the match. No physical traits or characteristics will be lost. The user must expend a high amount of energy in order to perform this move.

Hariyama loses thick fat and its hand boost, but retains its slow speed, sturdiness, dark vision, and temperature tolerance. Also keeps everything in the fighting sc

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Old 08-23-2015, 12:53 PM   #1978
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I can absolutely get behind that.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:03 PM   #1979
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That's fine, still don't see the reason it needs to be changed.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:05 PM   #1980
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Probably a bit restrictive but sure, solves all existing issues causes no problems, gogogo.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:56 PM   #1981
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Old 08-23-2015, 03:54 PM   #1982
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Gastro Acid (PO) -- The user vomits on the opponent. Although no damage is dealt, the acid in the vomit is constructed so that that the opponent will lose any damage boosts or reductions, as well as any increases or decreases in attack effectiveness (intimidation boosts, confusion resistances) gained through their SC for the remainder of the match. No physical traits or characteristics will be lost. The user must expend a high amount of energy in order to perform this move.

Hariyama loses thick fat and its hand boost, but retains its slow speed, sturdiness, dark vision, and temperature tolerance. Also keeps everything in the fighting sc
yes
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Old 08-23-2015, 04:18 PM   #1983
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Shit, the eternal wrong has accepted that descript. Back to the drawing boards, everyone!
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:45 PM   #1984
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I like it
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Old 08-23-2015, 11:26 PM   #1985
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Personally I like it working more with SCs than sigs because as IT said not all mon have sigs but all mon have SCs so doing SCs = greater incentive.
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Old 08-24-2015, 02:25 AM   #1986
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I feel like it should cost less energy and also not last for the rest of the match, maybe only for like 4 turns or so. But maybe that's just me
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:32 AM   #1987
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Mm a time limit with corresponding drop would be sensible.
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:13 AM   #1988
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maybe considerable-significant, 5 turns?
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:17 AM   #1989
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Considerable energy, don't bother with a round time really. It's a decent effect but its not strong enough to warrant only lasting for five rounds.

>people saying this has more incentive

lel
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:23 AM   #1990
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It's less of an incentive but it's less situational which is more important.
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:32 AM   #1991
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Nah this move is still pretty situational. It also isn't going to pay for itself using considerable energy for five rounds so I mean if we really want it to fade away the energy needs to go down to like decentish.
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Old 08-24-2015, 04:56 PM   #1992
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idk, decent for five rounds seems really low to me. I mean, Magnet Rise is three rounds for significant, Magic Room is five rounds for significant, Aqua Ring is five rounds for heavy, Conversion and Conversion2 are five rounds for heavy, Embargo is Considerable for Five Rounds, Terrain moves are all Considerable for Five rounds, Gravity is heavy for Five Rounds, Guard Swap is Considerable for five rounds, Heal block is significant for Five Rounds, Ion Deluge is significant for Five Rounds, Lucky Chant of all things is Good for five rounds... I could go on, but you get the point.

So unless you're honestly telling me that you think this Gastro Acid would be less useful than the likes of Guard Swap, Embargo, Ion Deluge, Grassy Terrain, and even Lucky Chant, decent is wayy too low, and I stand by my original proposal of 5 Rounds for Significant-Considerable.

And before it's pointed out, yes, I realize some of the things I listed, such as Gravity and Conversion2, would be distinctly better than this version of Gastro Acid. That really isn't the point :p
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:02 PM   #1993
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Well no in most cases this isn't going to be much more than a glorified boosting move. Hell, any defensive benefits you get from it are probably outclassed by defensive boosting moves right now anyways. You could maybe argue good but I'd still say decent is fine.

Unless you are honestly suggesting that Swords Dance and Nasty Plot and Shell Smash and Amnesia all get an energy hike (and yes several of those moves you listed need to cost less energy).
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:09 PM   #1994
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You really can't compare this Gastro Acid to a simple boosting move. Even if you completely leave out effects like losing Thick Fat, resistances to Mental effects like confusion and sleep and whatnot, and all the other things it can get rid of outside of straight boosts to moves, this Gastro Acid is still not having its effect diminish over time, and the effect stays longer than an attack like Nasty Plot or Work Up.

This incarnation of Gastro Acid is absolutely better than Guard Swap (which, btw, Gastro Acid arguably now does the same thing as but better and with more effects), Heal Block, Lucky Chant, and other such attacks, and I do think that needs to be reflected in the energy cost.
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:16 PM   #1995
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I said in most cases. There are obviously a couple of really noticeable exceptions like Mega Venusaur (who's SC should not be as powerful as it is), and yeah it has extra little bits to it (the fact that it murders the Grass SC is one of them [and is not okay]) but really, if you make its energy too high you are going to seriously devalue the move. Considerable / significant? The move doesn't pay itself off. It's not worth it at those energy levels imo even if other worse moves aren't either and should be fixed anyways.
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:18 PM   #1996
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I cannot believe we are still talking about Gastro Acid.

Can we move on to how Imprison is convoluted and not hugely useful?
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:19 PM   #1997
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God I hate this place.

Imprison is fine.
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:28 PM   #1998
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Not really. It perpetrates 'no glow now go' idiocy, it costs significant energy to kill off one move (which must have been seen recently) in a game where we give Pokémon every move they've ever learned ever. Where if we removed the latter clause and found a way to make it a bit more cost effective it could be a neat little move.

It's not a major issue but it's more interesting than talking about an issue we solved enough for the LOs to tweak it before making it final.
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:31 PM   #1999
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Yeah but I'm just remembering the time I used it so well when you had to use the move in question it got lobbied to be rewritten, and then was ironically made better.

It's still a very neat little move and yeah you could lower the energy of it but I don't see much of a reason why. If I'm a Gyarados and I Imprisoned your only Electric move I've just saved myself from 3 HBs of typespam (this is just an example to show how it can work). That more than paid itself.
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Old 08-24-2015, 05:32 PM   #2000
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Ohey look another move that is way less useful than this version of Gastro Acid and costs significant :p

Yeah honestly I'd say either bump the cost to like solid-good or, if we wanted to change the effect of the move to fit the energy cost, maybe something like it locks all moves used by the opponent in the round prior? Could be a neat way to punish a three or something. Alternatively we could have it lock a type but make it so it can't lock STAB/Normal/XX.

EDIT: @Emi, now there we have a hilariously situational scenario, especially when you consider that Landorus is the only mon that gets imprison and has a 4x weakness. I get that it's just an example, but I really don't see any way it can be practically applied given the mon that learn the move, or even anything remotely similar.
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