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Old 11-21-2014, 02:21 AM   #1251
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Good point, well made. Having the user itself be the drawback is a valid manner of balancing too!
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:57 AM   #1252
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No it isn't. You have no idea what will get that move in future.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:04 AM   #1253
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This is true, and I had already thought of that, but I think the general opinion on that is that we can just nerf it if that turns out to be the case.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:14 AM   #1254
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Yeah and then Heal Order takes literally years to deal with because of inertia. Just do it well now instead of half cocking it

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Old 11-21-2014, 03:27 AM   #1255
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Having thought it over, wouldn't it make the most sense to instead give said poor Pokemon an SC alteration to the move rather than rewrite the move straight up? That way you're both future-proofed it against distribution as well as made it powerful for the Pokemon who you want to be benefiting from it.

So, in this example, rather than buffing King's Shield, adding to Aegislash's SC something along the lines of "Being proficient with the attack, Aegislash's King's Shield nullifies damage from incoming attacks rather than reducing it.". That option also means the move is left in a form conductive to being sigged onto other pokemon without being inordinately powerful.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.

Last edited by Kindrindra; 11-21-2014 at 03:53 AM. Reason: Formattiiiiing
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:08 AM   #1256
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Having thought it over, wouldn't it make the most sense to instead give said poor Pokemon an SC alteration to the move rather than rewrite the move straight up? That way you're both future-proofed it against distribution as well as made it powerful for the Pokemon who you want to be benefiting from it.

So, in this example, rather than buffing King's Shield, adding to Aegislash's SC something along the lines of "Being proficient with the attack, Aegislash's King's Shield nullifies damage from incoming attacks rather than reducing it.". That option also means the move is left in a form conductive to being sigged onto other pokemon without being inordinately powerful.
King's Shield has already been fixed, as seen in the Move Errata. The reason why it was fixed was because there was absolutely no reason why it shouldn't have any effect on special attacks, considering that it cost more energy than Safeguard. Jeri said that he made a mistake when he was writing that move since he was in a rush. I prefer not to see this as "buffing" a move but rather "fixing a mistake". While I like your idea in principle, fixing moves which are problematic either because they were poorly conceived or have typographic oversight (which is the case for King's Shield) should not be taboo.

Move Rewrites are a part of the ASB, and implying that we were "buffing" King's Shield, when we were simply rectifying an oversight, isn't quite apposite. Nobody was saying that Aegislash is a poor Pokemon (I certainly don't think that it's bad, per sey); we simply noticed that King's Shield was a poor man's Protect and Safeguard for no real reason. After we pointed out this error to Jeri who wrote the move, he said that he forgot to mention special attacks and changed it appropriately.

And honestly, as Kush pointed out, we have no discernible way of determining how GameFreak will distribute moves. King's Shield at the moment is exclusive for Aegislash, and I think that it would stay that way. However, deliberately keeping a move poorer than it necessarily should be due to a small possibility that Game Freak might assign it to Dragonite seems a bit out there, isn't it? I mean, by the same logic, I should stay indoors all day because there is a possibility of a meteor striking me when I step outside. But because we don't know these risks of meteors, we all take the risks anyway and choose to step outside our doors, because staying inside all day over a small possibility seems silly?

Also, I think we as a community are more wary about Species Characteristics rewrites, simply because we had such a large SC overhaul not that long again. In contrast, the Move Reviews is a currently undergoing process, which therefore is a logical place for oversights to be corrected in our descriptions.

Last edited by Schadenfreude; 11-21-2014 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:18 AM   #1257
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Oh, did King's Shield cost more than significant before? I honestly missed that.

While it's true that we had a large SC overhaul recently, I don't really think we should be avoiding changing SCs- The PASBL is constantly evolving as a whole, there's no need to limit ourselves in terms of the tools we can use.

While I realize the move has been rewritten, the solution I proposed was more of a 'for future reference' idea since I know we've rewritten a few moves based on distribution in the past little while, and it might be something to keep in mind going forwards since I doubt this is the last time it'll happen.
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:21 AM   #1258
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Trump Card (NO) -- The user creates a number of plates of sparkling red energy, flinging them at the foe at a high speed. Each plate deals minor damage. The number of plates generated is dependent on the amount of energy the Pokémon has remaining. For every fifteenth of the energy depleted minus a massive amount of energy (i.e. 8/9ths of their total energy), the user will be able to generate another plate for a possible total of fifteen. A fresh Pokémon will only generate one plate, but a Pokémon at critical energy will generate the full fifteen possible plates, and a Pokémon with a bit over half of its energy of energy remaining will generate seven. Each plate costs minor energy to generate. Because this attack pulls its power from the Pokémon's exhaustion, it will retain its fast execution time, even at full power. A Pokémon may not generate more plates than they have energy. Therefore, when a Pokémon goes below critical energy, they will generate as many plates as they have energy for. If a Pokémon uses Trump Card at critical energy, they will faint after executing the attack.

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Old 11-21-2014, 06:40 PM   #1259
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Trump Card has always been a weird attack.
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:14 PM   #1260
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I think he was referring more to the point that's illustrated by the fact that I've read it five times now and understood none of it.
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Old 11-21-2014, 10:57 PM   #1261
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No it isn't. You have no idea what will get that move in future.
You are exactly right. Hence we have to make our decisions based on knowledge we know now instead of knowledge we can never possible know or else nothing ever would get done.
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:23 AM   #1262
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Trump card is pretty confusing. Could use rewriting.
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:33 AM   #1263
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So this is actually the rewritten version of Trump Card which is significantly better than the old version and is basically the only way this attack is going to work.

Sorry!
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:39 AM   #1264
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Sorry but I'm not taking that for an answer. Current version is absolutely _unreadable._ Plus the description feels like someone tried to use maths and got shot down by someone and it resulted in...come on, "for every fifteenth minus a massive amount" is just plain silly.

If I had any idea what the description was really trying to say I would rewrite it myself. But I genuinely do not except for the whole "Just above half, seven plates" sentence.
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:47 AM   #1265
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So the whole point of the move is that it gets stronger the less energy the Pokémon has, eventually reaching Hyper Beam power. Unfortunately, the way our system works, it's very difficult to divide the entirety of a Pokémon's health into 15 even chunks.

I'd be willing to reword it if you can figure out a better way to say it, but the anime has shown it to work roughly like this and this is the only way I can figure to make it useful without making it Swift 2.0.
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:51 AM   #1266
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Well that's a problem you'll run into when dealing with multiple health/energy scales. I would probably suggest that you directly write it for 6/9 only, state that explicitly and tell refs to go scale it properly when using another scale. And in 6/9, a fifteenth of a pokemon's energy is significant, so that should work.

And you could just throw it out there that in 4/6, a fifteenth of a pokemon's energy is good.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:05 AM   #1267
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I think it was written for 6/9.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:07 AM   #1268
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Trump Card (NO) -- The user creates a number of plates of sparkling red energy, flinging them at the foe at a high speed. Each plate deals minor damage. The number of plates generated is dependent on the amount of energy the Pokémon has remaining. For every considerable amount of the energy depleted, the user will be able to generate another plate for a possible total of fifteen. A fresh Pokémon will only generate one plate, but a Pokémon at critical energy will generate the full fifteen possible plates, and a Pokémon with a bit over half of its energy of energy remaining will generate seven. Each plate costs minor energy to generate. Because this attack pulls its power from the Pokémon's exhaustion, it will retain its fast execution time, even at full power. A Pokémon may not generate more plates than they have energy. Therefore, when a Pokémon goes below critical energy, they will generate as many plates as they have energy for. If a Pokémon uses Trump Card at critical energy, they will faint after executing the attack. This move scales to total energy, so in non-standard (non 6/9 systems) the amount of energy needed to summon another plate will scale accordingly.

Is that better?
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:10 AM   #1269
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We're not doubting the mechanics, Jer - I just genuinely can't tell how I work out how many things it creates. I'm sure mechanically it's fine, but it's entirely unreadable so I can't actually tell.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:11 AM   #1270
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Ninja'd. Much better, thanks.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:20 AM   #1271
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That is really a lot better, awesome work and thanks a ton Jeri.
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:06 PM   #1272
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Sheer Cold (IC) -- The user shoots out a very concentrated, very narrow blast of wind which attempts to deal extreme damage, and might render a limb or section of the victim´s body numb. If the victim is hit in a vulnerable area, the move might deal extreme damage.
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:07 PM   #1273
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According to Bulbapedia, it's only been shown as an OHKO move once. I dunno why. But anyway um most of the anime appearances have been "freezes the area around them dealing damage."

It doesn't have to be an OHKO move in ASB or even be that powerful. It might be fun to use as a widespread freeze move.
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:08 PM   #1274
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:54 PM   #1275
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Yeah there isn't a contradiction there, although it might be worth noting how much damage the move does if it doesn't hit a vulnerable area.
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