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Old 02-19-2011, 09:23 AM   #76
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>Implying thunderbolt isn't at significant.
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Thunderbolt (EL) -- The user quickly charges a strong burst of electricity, which it then fires off directly at the opponent for fairly high damage. Thunderbolt also has a 10% chance of inducing paralysis.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:27 AM   #77
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And flamethrower says it's stronger than hyper beam.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:31 AM   #78
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>Shadow Ball looks good, though 'significant' seems an eensy bit high. Would suggest 'fairly high'/'high', to keep it in line with Thunderbolt-strength.

Significant is now TB-level strength.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:32 AM   #79
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Concept in trying to pass the buck when proven wrong shocker.

'Significant' just sounds stronger than Thunderbolt-level attacks anyways. I know SM agrees with me here ;;

EDIT the first: ...what.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:35 AM   #80
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I've revised the Muyo scale because it was based on Mozz and his inconsistencies. It's now only 15 terms and Significant is where Thunderbolt falls.

Moderate is still low even if that's retarded, but I'm trying to keep with the scaling of the original list.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:39 AM   #81
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Currently I rate Significant at around two-thirds of an HB, which seems a little high for Thunderbolt and the like.

Moderate falls around the one-third mark, seeing how most moves that are described as such are around the 60 Power mark.

Fair point on clearing the whole system up though, just seems a bit strange to radically power up/down some moves, but then again people think I'm strange for putting TBolt at half an HB though it makes sense to me, dammit!
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:46 AM   #82
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>Fair point on clearing the whole system up though, just seems a bit strange to radically power up/down some moves, but then again people think I'm strange for putting TBolt at half an HB though it makes sense to me, dammit!

Very, very few moves have been radically changed - Shadow Ball is pretty much the biggest change. Only a few moves have had their strengths either regularized so similar moves have equivalent power (e.g. Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower and Fire Blast/Blizzard/Thunder are all now the same power, respectively). Some moves that were stupidly underpowered (read: Ominous Wind, Elemental Fangs, Cross Poison, among others) were given pretty significant boosts, but they're comparatively few and far between.

I'll be releasing the full, rewritten list in a bit after LOs *coughcoughMuyocoughcough* look at it and give me feedback.

>Moderate falls around the one-third mark, seeing how most moves that are described as such are around the 60 Power mark.

That's become "Good" because of how it scaled/that's what Water Pulse uses.
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Old 02-19-2011, 09:48 AM   #83
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Ah, right-o. Apologies for butting in with severe lack of understanding. This looks like a vast improvement.
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Old 02-19-2011, 11:14 AM   #84
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Jeri, perhaps add in the whole "flinch" aspect of FP? Has been shown in the animé a few times.

> Ominous Wind being raised

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Old 02-19-2011, 11:17 AM   #85
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Pretty sure that works as it is now, which is why people Wait Until It's Done before charging - so that they don't get hit and flinch.
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Old 02-19-2011, 11:20 AM   #86
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Can Magnet Rise's energy be decreased somewhat?
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Old 02-19-2011, 11:22 AM   #87
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Also can it be specifically given an aspect that makes it worth using for Magnemite and other already floating things? Perhaps a greater flight ceiling/manoeuvrability?
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Old 02-19-2011, 11:39 AM   #88
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Can Magnet Rise's energy be decreased somewhat?
I'll definitely consider it considering it's a rather marginal advantage for a ton of energy.

>Also can it be specifically given an aspect that makes it worth using for Magnemite and other already floating things? Perhaps a greater flight ceiling/manoeuvrability?

Good idea.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:06 PM   #89
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@Falcon Focus Punch: Thinking about how it works in the games, I'd put in a mention about the the attack being easily disrupted the the user is struck anywhere other than the fist.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:08 PM   #90
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Pretty sure that works as it is now, which is why people Wait Until It's Done before charging - so that they don't get hit and flinch.
I thought we already covered this? :x
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:10 PM   #91
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I thought we already covered this? :x
Yes, but people do some crazy things when things aren't explicitly stated.

Remember those newbs with their 'Agility uses Psychuck energy'?
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People should watch what they enjoy regardless of what others think, even if it's a terribad guilty pleasure.
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Though, I also dislike the concept of lamenting the current day while wishing to re-experience the past. At least, my modern attitude is to try and make each new day magical even if it's not, since exclusively reminiscing about the past is too pathetic.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:00 PM   #92
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Focus Punch (FT) -- The ultimate fighting attack, the user spends significant time charging up the attack, and then releases a devastating punch. The user's fist glows with fighting energy. Energy and damage are equivalent to Hyper Beam, with damage also being modified by the user of the move. The charge time, as well, is like Hyper Beam, with a full charge doing the lethal damage, but consuming a very significant amount of time and energy. Due to the large amount of focus it takes to execute this attack, it can easily be interrupted, causing it to fail. Quick charge and Mid-Charge variations of this move are possible, but consume slightly more energy than they do damage due to the need to break the focus before the technique is complete.
Good?

And, from a quick scan of my list, I've hit many of those in my rewrites, so let's just go through and hit all the minor remaining points at once.

>Encore

What's wrong with it? How can we change/improve it?

>Mach Punch vs. Vacuum Wave

I'm a little iffy on making this distinction just yet, but if you can convince me to find a way to make Mach Punch still reflect it's spirit and be different, go for it.

>Synthesis

This sucks. Let's make it better! Suggestions?

>Taunt/Swagger

How can we make these more useful and still balanced?

>Baton Pass, U-Turn and Volt Change

We need to hash out rules for this. >>;

>Double Team

Muyo suggested boosting this by making it a bit more useful but making it a bit more fragile? Bad idea? Suggestions?

>Regularizing Stockpile

Suggestions?

>Misc. Overlapping Moves

What it says on the tin.

...GO!

Last edited by Jerichi; 02-26-2011 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:05 PM   #93
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>significant energy
>significant = tbolt
>Hyper Beam level
In order to avoid further confusion due to the similarity of lolheavy flamethrower, might just say significant time and [insert HB energy term here] energy.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:07 PM   #94
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>In order to avoid further confusion due to the similarity of lolheavy flamethrower, might just say significant time and [insert HB energy term here] energy.

Well I should just be able to say "you're stupid if you think it's that way" but oh well, whatever.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:09 PM   #95
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Sorry, just me being a buttmunch.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:13 PM   #96
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For Double Team, how about 4th (?) movie Scizor sorta thing; super many clones but sufficient concentration can help locate the real Pokemon. Maybe?

It would make it somewhat simpler at least.

Also btw Twister really should be a dragon type move. Yeah I went there.
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:42 PM   #97
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>In order to avoid further confusion due to the similarity of lolheavy flamethrower, might just say significant time and [insert HB energy term here] energy.

Well I should just be able to say "you're stupid if you think it's that way" but oh well, whatever.
The man has a point - if people are still pointing it out after I complained about it on SPPf and Muyo responded, it's kind of telling. (Or people really hate SPPf's guts. It's a viable alternative.)

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Good?

And, from a quick scan of my list, I've hit many of those in my rewrites, so let's just go through and hit all the minor remaining points at once.

>Encore

What's wrong with it? How can we change/improve it?

>Mach Punch vs. Vacuum Wave

I'm a little iffy on making this distinction just yet, but if you can convince me to find a way to make Mach Punch still reflect it's spirit and be different, go for it.

>Synthesis

This sucks. Let's make it better! Suggestions?

>Taunt/Swagger

How can we make these more useful and still balanced?

>Baton Pass, U-Turn and Volt Change

We need to hash out rules for this. >>;

>Double Team

Muyo suggested boosting this by making it a bit more useful but making it a bit more fragile? Bad idea? Suggestions?

>Regularizing Stockpile

Suggestions?

>Misc. Overlapping Moves

What it says on the tin.

...GO!
>Encore
Encore is a little vague - might be just me, but the way I'm reading it now is that it works better if the opponent doesn't see or hear it. If that's the case, how does the opponent fall under Encore? Is it a magic curse? The anime version is okay, but in view of risks in abuse I'd suggest an imperfect accuracy and short duration (the next 1-3 moves?).

>Mach Punch vs. Vacuum Wave
I know debates about an attack's range tend to make LOs cringe since the difference in viability is arguable to be negligible, but here goes. Mach Punch has been more often shown to be a flying punch that drags the user along, while in both its appearances Vacuum Wave sends air at the opponent compressed by energy. Sufficient difference? One automatically helps the user close the distance between targets where it can be disrupted, but aids in further close-combat tactics if the move is successfully completed. (Others might have something to add here, but that's one.)

>Synthesis
Make it a Grass version of Recover that can be boosted (not sure by how much) if Sunny Day is active. I think we're all of the agreement that Grass is competitively poor enough as a type to deserve it.

>Taunt/Swagger
Give it a chance to use a generic, STAB attack of varying strength? (e.g. 30% chance of a Taunted/Swaggered Pikachu using anything from Thundershock to Thunderbolt instead of the original orders.)

>BP/UT/VC
*shakes fist at the anime writers*

>Double Team
Aren't Double Team clones already fragile enough to the point that spread attacks can be used to break them?

>Stockpile
My suggestion would be to follow the games - give in a fixed energy accumulation (decent?) each time it's used, up to 3 times, then calculate Spit Up/Swallow at a fixed amount depending on how much it's used, without the energy accumulation in between. In addition, do what DPPt did; give the user a bit of a defence boost when it's active. (I'd pointed out with Muyo that the stored energy could in theory constitute a defensive buffer that is removed with Spit Up/Swallow. After Muyoly mulling he told me not to include the effect if I reffed the move, but he'd think about it.)

>Twister
With Whirlwind/Gust being sort of similar it's not a bad thing that stuff like Pidgeot actually receive better coverage.
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:23 AM   #98
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Double Team Suggestion:

Double Team in the rain stop's it as the rain can be seen going through the clones. This should not stop Pokemon that are in a gas-ish state (Ghost Pokemon not in solid form). As we would see the rain go through the real Pokemon to.
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:45 AM   #99
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Double Team Suggestion:

Double Team in the rain stop's it as the rain can be seen going through the clones. This should not stop Pokemon that are in a gas-ish state (Ghost Pokemon not in solid form). As we would see the rain go through the real Pokemon to.
Under the impression things already work this way.
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:09 AM   #100
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>Under the impression things already work this way.

It does.
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