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Old 03-04-2011, 04:43 PM   #26
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So then, you've gotta be expecting this.

With BW out in Europe, and the Stateside release two days away, when can we expect Gen V implem--{shot}

Nah, kidding. Instead, I'm just going to ask about if we're allowed the new distribution of previously existing moves on previously existing Pokémon (Mud Shot Octillery, Brave Bird Farfetch'd, etc) or not? If so, are they allowed in currently-running battles?
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Old 03-04-2011, 04:49 PM   #27
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For the moment, let's say no. I'll ask Muyo about it later and see what he says.
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:56 PM   #28
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Eh. Would be nice to have a Recovering Kecleon. But I don't think we need it yet.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:04 PM   #29
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That's an HGSS move, Kushtie.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:56 PM   #30
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Once everything gets properly vetted and people have some time to play the games a bit, we might be able to release BW in full since the only thing not done is the SCs (and they're in progress). But I want to release everything at once which means finishing the new Attack list.

So.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:27 AM   #31
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Would a Litwick using Acid Armor over a pokemon cause burns/damage due to it being a freaking hot melting piece of wax?
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:31 AM   #32
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It could, but they'd be comparatively light to a burn caused by, say, Flamethrower.
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:59 AM   #33
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Warning: Upcoming tl;dr post
Warning 2: Upcoming slightly intelligent Rangeet post

So about Trick Room. I was wondering...if your opponent uses Trick Room and you use it again, wouldn't the original be neutralised?

Now...in order of the people I asked...

(4:40 PM) Rangeet: If a pokemon used Trick Room
and its opponent used Trick room to neutralise it
would you ref it working?
(4:40 PM) Handy: Yes. But, when the first trick room's turns are up, it'll mean that only the second one remains, therefore un-neutralising it again briefly.

So a yes from Handy...

(5:12 PM) Rangeet: would you ref a Trick Room being neutralised by an opposing TR?
(5:13 PM) Copygoo: No.
(5:13 PM) Rangeet: wut, wynaut
(5:13 PM) Rangeet: - * - = +
(5:13 PM) Copygoo: Because TR has the same effect no matter what side you are on.
If you are slow, you go faster. If you are faster, you go slower.

No from Copy.

Now, the next one is important...and kinda long...(this Dave is Concept, just btw)

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Rangeet says:
*DAVE
*Would you ref a Trick Room being neutralised by an opposing Trick Room? And no, I do not care if the answer is from some "unmentionable place"
Daεve says:
*hang on lemme read trick room
Rangeet says:
*uh oh
*that's a no
Daεve says:
*yeah i'm gunna say no
Rangeet says:
*D:
*But that leaves you no way to counter an opposing Trick Room.
Daεve says:
*any move that slows the user down will do that just fine
*curse et al
Rangeet says:
*oh sorry
*meh
*gonna ask Jeri
Daεve says:
*muyo's on atm, why not ask him
Rangeet says:
*unsurprisingly, he blocked me a while back
*or just appears offline to me one of the two
Daεve says:
*sad times
*SS?
Rangeet says:
*h'm maybe
*why don't you ask muyo?
Daεve says:
*because i think i'm right, and i don't really care :p
Rangeet says:
*oic
*SS: Yes
*So far, Handy and SS: Yes, you and Copy: No
Daεve says:
*Daεve says:
*trick room to counter another trick room y/n?
Muyo *hsus says:
*No


So, Muyo said no, but didn't give no reasoning. Now, the next one, with SS, is by far the most important. And long.

Spoiler: show
Numbuh 37 says:
*I'm not following the "gravity" thing.
Rangeet says:
*Basically.
Numbuh 37 says:
*So heavier Pokemon move faster than lighter Pokemon?
Rangeet says:
*Bulky pokemon, who are slow because of their bodies
*can now move fast
*and Slowpoke, etc, can't
Numbuh 37 says:
*That's pretty damn stupidly broken if you stop to think about it.
Rangeet says:
*H'm. I believe you're right.
*ESPECIALLY if it can't be reversed
Numbuh 37 says:
*Things with low base speed but are light are screwed over by anything with weight.
*But I suppose it's the league's way of giving the games the middle finger.
Rangeet says:
*Like Exeggcute[/nobodyusesit]
Numbuh 37 says:
*Implying I'm not planning for Alien Xeggutor.
Rangeet says:
*xD that would be awesome
*the 4x weakness would serve for Alien X's "weak spot"
*I'd bring it up in the forum, but don't particularly want to, as I'm planning on using it in a match
Numbuh 37 says:
*Yeah, do me a favour and raise another EQ ruckus.


Ignore the part where we talk about Ben 10.

Also, DTFG said that "it does in the games, so I would say yes" in answer to my question.



Now then. Let's see what we raised.

1) Trick Room is kind of broken as is, especially with no real "counters" to it.
2) There are plenty of reasons for Trick Room to be negated by another one. The main being the games.


Now, let us debate upon these facts.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:04 AM   #34
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Just like to add that I haven't reffed for a while so my opinion shouldn't really be considered. Just saying.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Trick Room (PS) -- The user expends a significant amount of psychic energy to change the pull of gravity on the field to pull equally on the field to equalize across all Pokémon. This effect means that slower Pokémon will seem to be tremendously sped up, as they are able to move with the same pace and ease as usual, while faster Pokémon are greatly affected by the pull, having their speed plummet. The effects last for five rounds before gravity returns to normal.
I don't really see how you can argue that using Trick Room twice cancels it out. All you're doing is reinforcing the fact that gravity pulls equally across all pokémon.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:10 AM   #36
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If you can change the pull of gravity to equalize, you should be able to change it to..uh..un-equalize.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:11 AM   #37
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I don't really see how you can argue that using Trick Room twice cancels it out. All you're doing is reinforcing the fact that gravity pulls equally across all pokémon.
Either way, it means that the description is flawed on saying that slower Pokemon invariably go faster. Going by what 'geet told me, the boost pretty much only applies on things that are slow and bulky/large. Stuff like Slowpoke and Shuckle are essentially screwed over.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:12 AM   #38
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If you can change the pull of gravity to equalize, you should be able to change it to..uh..un-equalize.
Yeah I understand the concept but I don't think we generally allow pokémon to do that.

We could. But then we'd have to be able to use reverse trick room at other times too. Thus, you'd see ultra fast pokémon battling against slow stuff brought to a standstill. This is way more broken than the existing trick toom.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:13 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Now then. Let's see what we raised.

1) Trick Room is kind of broken as is, especially with no real "counters" to it.
2) There are plenty of reasons for Trick Room to be negated by another one. The main being the games.

Now, let us debate upon these facts.
I've had trick room pulled on me multiple times and never has it given me any real problems. Like I said, curse et al are great ways of dealing with it. It's really not broken - most pokemon that get it can't really use it to any great effect, and those that can are kinda nerfed by their low speed anyway. All it's doing is making slow pokemon faster than their opponent, it's really just long term agility on steroids for a lot more energy.

If we took the games as an argument for anything we'd have silver raising stats and ghost curse being passed by BP and U-turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowshocker View Post
Either way, it means that the description is flawed on saying that slower Pokemon invariably go faster. Going by what 'geet told me, the boost pretty much only applies on things that are slow and bulky/large. Stuff like Slowpoke and Shuckle are essentially screwed over.
The whole "gravity" thing in the attack description is just a bollocks way (read: drunk Mozz) of trying to rationalise what it does, which is speed up naturally slow pokemon and slow down naturally fast pokemon. Follow what it says it does, not the faux-physics it claims causes it to work.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:14 AM   #40
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Not what Jeri said iirc(though I prolly don't). He said it has to do with gravity, i.e bulkiness, so stuff like Slowking is fast, but not Slowpoke, because retarded.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:21 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangeetsuper View Post
Not what Jeri said iirc(though I prolly don't). He said it has to do with gravity, i.e bulkiness, so stuff like Slowking is fast, but not Slowpoke, because retarded.
As much as I like Jeri, if he thinks "equalising the pull of gravity over all pokemon" would make Snorlax speed up massively he clearly hasn't done science in many years. For one thing, gravity is already bloody equal everywhere on the earths surface. For another, watch videos of the moon landings and tell me that being under low gravity makes you able to outrun Usain Bolt.

Can I propose:

Trick Room (PS) -- The user expends a significant amount of psychic energy to cause a mysterious effect upon the field. As a result of trick room, those pokemon that are slow outside of trick room find themselves sped up massively, whilst those that would otherwise be fast will find themselves moving slower than average. The effect lasts for about five turns.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:26 AM   #42
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>People thinking Curse is a speed boost under Trick Room.

oh u
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:27 AM   #43
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That should still be counterable. And we can simply put a ban on using only reverse Trick Room. Not like we haven't put bans on stuff simply because it was broken before.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:33 AM   #44
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If it's just based on gravity, Curse probably shouldn't be a boost. Clearly common ASB logic dictates that Trick Room not particularly to do with Gravity.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:32 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Concept View Post

Can I propose:

Trick Room (PS) -- The user expends a significant amount of psychic energy to cause a mysterious effect upon the field. As a result of trick room, those pokemon that are slow outside of trick room find themselves sped up massively, whilst those that would otherwise be fast will find themselves moving slower than average. The effect lasts for about five turns.
I like this, as it also shuts down the Trick Room + Gravity loophole me and I_D found.
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:11 PM   #46
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After random perusals I've found a couple of things. Don't get me wrong, ABL's done an absolutely bang-up job on updating the site, but there's at least two things that I should point out:

1) The rule about non-evolvable uplevels is still in place, when apparantly that was repealed ages ago.

2) Attack descriptions. For some reason, some of the majorly changed ones (at the top of the beta document Jeri wrote up) are also up in their older forms in the lower list of the doc, and as such have been pasted onto the site. The ones I can find so far are: Amnesia, Bone Rush, Defog, Giga Impact, Hidden Power and Stone Edge.

...I'm sorry please don't kill me ;;
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:49 AM   #47
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Also Gen V moves don't appear to be up.

But it's still awesome
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:54 AM   #48
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Also Gen V moves don't appear to be up.

But it's still awesome
You're not looking hard enough then, they're there.
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:00 AM   #49
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>2) Attack descriptions. For some reason, some of the majorly changed ones (at the top of the beta document Jeri wrote up) are also up in their older forms in the lower list of the doc, and as such have been pasted onto the site. The ones I can find so far are: Amnesia, Bone Rush, Defog, Giga Impact, Hidden Power and Stone Edge.

Yeah that's partially my fault because I haven't been able to get her the full list of major changes. I'll see what I can do about that soon.
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:02 AM   #50
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You're not looking hard enough then, they're there.
Not for me they're not. Which is odd as the level acquisitions bit is all updated.

;;
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