UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-21-2011, 11:30 PM   #1
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
Suggestions & Inquiries - General - Archive

Let's reduce the thread clutter a bit with S&I General. Questions? Comments? Suggestions? We'll keep all our random rulings here so we can keep track of them.

And, as a disclaimer, be aware that non-LO opinions are not official and not always right. Read with caution!

Last edited by Mercutio; 11-24-2013 at 02:56 PM.
Jerichi is offline  
Old 01-28-2011, 09:35 AM   #2
Shadowshocker
used First Impression
 
Shadowshocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,033
This is the match in question.

Shadow attempts to get Rangeet to justify his take on paralysis.
Spoiler: show
Numbuh 37 says:
How often do you ref paralysis working?
Rangeet says:
?
Mind elaborating?
Numbuh 37 says:
You know, how often do Pokemon become "fully paralysed" in your system.
Rangeet says:
....depends on the attack?
Numbuh 37 says:
For Discharge?
Rangeet says:
Well, up to 30 is paralysis
1 is full body paralysis, and 30 is very light paralysis
so it goes like that
Numbuh 37 says:
So, based on that you mean "20" was the level of paralysis that Wukong had?
Rangeet says:
It wasn't full body, but it wasn't very light
Numbuh 37 says:
Enough to completely stop BB?
Rangeet says:
Um, yes.
Numbuh 37 says:
Hm.
Quoting the site: "Paralyzed - While not as blatant, errors *are* made. Thunder Wave stops paralyzing the second it's dropped. Partial paralysis IS possible, either in overall slowness or in one part of the body."
Well, not the site; Mozz's discussion thread on statuses.
Granted, I'd rather not use Mozz but nothing has challenged this yet.
Rangeet says:
Um...that...is outdated like crazy.
Thunder Wave actually does paralyse after it's dropped.
Says Muyo. In the legend match.
Numbuh 37 says:
I believe the wording means Thunder Wave stops adding paralysis after it's dropped.
Rangeet says:
...well, duh.
Numbuh 37 says:
So it's not outdated like crazy.
Rangeet says:
but it's pretty outdated.
*shrug*
Numbuh 37 says:
Has anything else challenged that list? My lack of reffing might have left me unaware
Rangeet says:
If you could link me to the post, that'd be a help
Numbuh 37 says:
http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=78714
Rangeet says:
xD
I wondered what was wrong before realising my default browser is IE
well, the only thing wrong is "the one EVERYONE uses"
no sane person uses Toxic
lol
oh, well
in that exact thread Jeri said Paralysis is outdated, so...
Numbuh 37 says:
I'm wondering. Just how defined is your paralysis scale?
Rangeet says:
Er....?
Numbuh 37 says:
Is your scale like that of a ruler?
As in, say, 15 is twice as paralysed as 30, that sort of thing.
Rangeet says:
no
15 would be moderately paralysed
30 is super light paralysis
Numbuh 37 says:
What defines moderate paralysis?
Rangeet says:
Um, paralysis that would go away completely if hit with an attack of Thunderbolt and above.
It's kind of hard to define it.
Numbuh 37 says:
Well, if that's how you say it, it's no surprise why your in-ref description of paralysis factor 20 is looking no different from paralysis factor 1 to me.
Rangeet says:
Um, well....
If it came out "1" it'd be very seriously paralysed, not even requiring an RNG to check whether it could use BB or not, and Thunderbolt wouldn't have broken it out.
Numbuh 37 says:
So what's 20?
I'm thinking 30 as almost zero; 20 is a third of the way to insane paralysis, and 10 is another third of the way.
Rangeet says:
20 is about halfway between moderate and light, an attack of the strength of Psychic would easily have broken it out, and it required an RNG to see if you could break through it or not
It's...not like that.
Numbuh 37 says:
So what's your RNG for between moderate and light?
Rangeet says:
My basic landmarks are
1- extreme, 10- huge, 15- moderate, 25- light, 30- very light
Numbuh 37 says:
No, I meant what's your RNG for 20. What's your range for letting a 'mon break free?
Rangeet says:
75 can't break free, 25 breaks free.
Jeezus christ, it's a game. >.>
Numbuh 37 says:
Your "between moderate and light" has a chance of 1 in 4 of breaking free?
Rangeet says:
Breaking free is...not common.
Numbuh 37 says:
'geet, I might be taking game mechanics as a university module now
But you don't need to be in my position or a math whiz to know that those odds are trippin'.
Rangeet says:
feel free, but don't get to serious all over it
tripping...in what way?
Numbuh 37 says:
In that your supposedly low magnitude of paralysis - as opposed to full paralysis - has an incredibly punishing chance of (not) surviving
Rangeet says:
Well, duh.
Breaking free is extremely rare, in fact I should probably lower it to 80-20,
>.>
Numbuh 37 says:
I might regret this... but I'd like to ask where your citation is for "breaking free is extremely rare".
Rangeet says:
The fact that if it wasn't, paralysis would be confusion.
Numbuh 37 says:
If paralysis let you mix moves up or hit yourself, yeah, it would.
Rangeet says:
Uh, confusion does not let you hit yourself
Numbuh 37 says:
It does. Verified it with Muyo.
Rangeet says:
O-O
well that would have to be something silly
like two pokemon using Confuse Ray at the same time
or something
Numbuh 37 says:
No, it happens. I verified it with him when I had to ref confusion.
Rangeet says:
....ok....
Now, if you excuse me...dinner.


Dave attempts the same thing with similarly glorious results.
Spoiler: show
Dave says:
*trying to
*for the record, i'd have let Brick Break probably hit, but with reduced momentum thus reduced damage
Rangeet says:
*um, ok
Dave says:
*also a 25% chance of getting free is a bit silly
Rangeet says:
*for the record, I ref breaking free being laughably rare
*otherwise paralysis would be confusion

Rangeet says:
*Zap Cannon has an approximately 0% chance of breaking free
Dave says:
*yeah, same
*but 'moderate-to-light' paralysis?
Rangeet says:
*Um.
*Between moderate and light, yep.
Dave says:
*yeah
Rangeet says:
*I just said breaking free is rare.
Dave says:
*...so 25%?
Rangeet says:
*Indeed. Because it's between moderate to light.
*I should in fact prolly lower it.

Dave says:
**raise
Rangeet says:
*no, sorry
*I ref breaking free of paralysis very low
*ffs
*You're acting like half the customers on notalwaysright
Dave says:
*by 'breaking free' do you mean 'totally escaping' or 'using an attack'?
Rangeet says:
*"using an attack".
Dave says:
*...
*yeah, that's silly
*i can see movement being hindered, sure
Rangeet says:
*feel free to think so
*I'll keep reffing my way until there's some word on paralysis.


I'm sorry for soiling the thread like this, and I know Jeri's said in Mozz's thread on SPPf that paralysis is outdated, and I know we should be giving newer refs a chance, but...

for (var i:int = 0; i == i; i++)
{
Shadow.headdesk();
}
Shadowshocker is offline  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:59 AM   #3
Concept
Archbishop of Banterbury
 
Concept's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nipple-Hunting with Elsie and Kairne
Posts: 6,962
Send a message via Skype™ to Concept
Out of interest, just how did you suffer such extensive brain damage that caused you to let Rangeet ref anyway?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTerry
What can the harvest hope for, if not the care of the reaper man?
Concept is offline  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:00 AM   #4
Shadowshocker
used First Impression
 
Shadowshocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concept View Post
Out of interest, just how did you suffer such extensive brain damage that caused you to let Rangeet ref anyway?
I'd asked Dave (of the fish sort), and he said that Rangeet had been improving.

The Earthquake debacle has also led Kush to say that newer referees should have practice or they'll never improve.
Shadowshocker is offline  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:02 AM   #5
DaveTheFishGuy
Primordial Fishbeast
 
DaveTheFishGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,257
Send a message via Skype™ to DaveTheFishGuy
Yeah, I decided to put some faith in Rangeet and actually let him have a go at reffing something.

Obviously, I was mistaken.

Glad to see some input on this though! [/sarc]
__________________
Trainer Level 6 - A- Grade Ref - Dark Gym Leader



Fizzy Bubbles - Cable Club Post - Wild Future

Spoiler: show


Various awesome artstuffs by DaisyInari
Spoiler: show

DaveTheFishGuy is offline  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:56 AM   #6
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,328
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Out of interest, when was a landmark for paralysis there again, and when did common sense factor into reffing something with absolutely nothing to do with "common" sense?
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:57 AM   #7
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowshocker View Post
I'd asked Dave (of the fish sort), and he said that Rangeet had been improving.

The Earthquake debacle has also led Kush to say that newer referees should have practice or they'll never improve.
Oh, that's not particularly due to that. It's just that, Dave and I are the most active refs currently working consistently and neither of us will be around forever. If we suddenly stopped reffing (or even if Dave just stopped reffing) the league would very suddenly stop running at a rate that's worth bothering with. This must not be the case when Dave gets bored of reffing.
Mercutio is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 09:27 AM   #8
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
Rangeet, please make your description system more congruent with how you ref paralysis.

Paralysis should never be a 100% total lock-up. Paralysis described as "moderate to light" is not going to make a Pokemon lock up 75% of the time. This would make paralysis wildly broken. Paralysis gives a fair chance of locking up the foe - the biggest advantage in an attacking context is that it slows down the foe quite a bit, allowing you to get an attack in without too much retaliation. If the paralysis is moderate, something like a 40% (that's kinda high) or 30% chance is reasonable for an attack failing. Severe or somewhere around there makes 40-50% chance somewhat reasonable, but even then, that's a little high.

You're digging yourself a bit of a ditch here. Even if I don't make a ruling on your horrible reffings, you're soon going to be unable to find anyone who will want you to ref for them.
Jerichi is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 10:27 AM   #9
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,328
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Thanks for the info, but I do have to point out there's absolutely no benchmark on how to ref paralysis. Like, ever. So you can't really blame me for using my own version of paralysis.
__________________
Spoiler: show
Rangeet is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 10:39 AM   #10
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
You could use a bit of common sense. And by that, I mean, consider what would be fair.
Jerichi is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 10:43 AM   #11
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,328
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
Paralysis is just a slightly boosted form of confusion in any case, both of them wear off completely normally, are removed immediately if an attack hits, and cause the user to have a chance of not attacking during the time they're their. The only difference is you can mix up attacks during confusion and (this I did not know) apparently, you can hit yourself during confusion.


While I'm here, is the old rule that you can get 1 battle in the Pokemon Center even in Slapstick still there?
__________________
Spoiler: show

Last edited by Rangeet; 01-29-2011 at 10:49 AM.
Rangeet is offline  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:07 AM   #12
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
>While I'm here, is the old rule that you can get 1 battle in the Pokemon Center even in Slapstick still there?

Injuries have to be fairly extreme but yeah, it's possible.

>Paralysis = Confusion

No not really. There's a speed-lowering element in Paralysis and Confusion is much, much easier to get through. Not to mention that Paralysis does not affect mentally-based moves nearly as much.
Jerichi is offline  
Old 01-31-2011, 07:05 AM   #13
Rangeet
Foot, meet mouth.
 
Rangeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beyond the Wall
Posts: 4,328
Send a message via MSN to Rangeet Send a message via Skype™ to Rangeet
All right, this may be my mistake, but honestly this is quite a big difference. Is Trick Room to be reffed as all pokemon move at equal speeds or is it to be reffed as slowest pokemon is now fastest and vice versa?
__________________
Spoiler: show

Last edited by Rangeet; 02-02-2011 at 02:09 AM.
Rangeet is offline  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:22 AM   #14
DaveTheFishGuy
Primordial Fishbeast
 
DaveTheFishGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,257
Send a message via Skype™ to DaveTheFishGuy
Oh, I'm about to sound like such a n00b.

Quote:
Double Team (NO) -- ...No energy-type moves (except energy based Normal techniques like Hyper Beam or Swift) can be used while clones are active, doing so eliminates the clones...
So... what exactly is 'energy-type'? Obviously things like Thunderbolt and Fire Blast, but what about melée attacks that use type energy, like Ice Punch and Iron Tail? Do those eliminate clones as well?

Yes, I can't beleive I'm asking this either.
__________________
Trainer Level 6 - A- Grade Ref - Dark Gym Leader



Fizzy Bubbles - Cable Club Post - Wild Future

Spoiler: show


Various awesome artstuffs by DaisyInari
Spoiler: show

DaveTheFishGuy is offline  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:46 AM   #15
Deebs
You sayin' I like dudes?
 
Deebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: KY
Posts: 1,868
Send a message via Skype™ to Deebs
Any energy generated beyond Normal eliminates clones. I never realized the odd wording before, but inverting the word order written makes it more clear.
Deebs is offline  
Old 02-03-2011, 11:07 AM   #16
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Yeah, it needs to be put as specifically being type-energy. If I punch someone, I use energy. If I jump, I use energy. Both of these actions would lose me DT clones.

(Or we could just scrap that rule)
Mercutio is offline  
Old 02-03-2011, 05:20 PM   #17
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
It is type energy and Double Team may be potentially rewritten to get rid of that rule.

Nick said something about it but I forget what it was so I'll leave him to reinterpret it.
Jerichi is offline  
Old 02-22-2011, 02:24 PM   #18
Salamencia
UPN's very own Houdini
 
Salamencia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Not here
Posts: 2,532
Send a message via Skype™ to Salamencia
A question that I don't believe has been covered (may well have been though). Are air-based moves counted Physical in the ASB, in a similar manner to water-based moves? (I believe the current ruling for water is it's Special in terms of Nasty Plot boosting, but will be treated as Physical upon impact? Probably wrong there.)
__________________
PASBL - Trainer Level 4 - B Grade Referee

WF

Yes, I am online. No, I am not ASBing currently. WF takes priority, as it tends to take up less of my time.
Salamencia is offline  
Old 02-22-2011, 04:03 PM   #19
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
People mix and match for no reason. Many consider Air Slash special and Twister physical.
Mercutio is offline  
Old 02-22-2011, 08:39 PM   #20
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
I mean, compressed air has a lot of force behind it, so Air Slash is going to have a semi-physical element. Will it outright break a Light Screen? Probably not a fresh one, but it might shatter a weaker one with some momentum to spare. Will it hit a Ghost in Ethereal? Most likely.
Jerichi is offline  
Old 02-22-2011, 09:41 PM   #21
Ethereal
Creepy Hand Person
 
Ethereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,988
Send a message via AIM to Ethereal Send a message via MSN to Ethereal Send a message via Skype™ to Ethereal
I am slightly disinclined to allow ghosts to reside in my body.
Aside from that, EQ is the only approved rewrite, yes?
__________________
asb|wf
TL-2 • B Grade Referee
Former Bug and Water GT
Ethereal is offline  
Old 02-22-2011, 09:45 PM   #22
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
Thus far, yes. Still need to vet everything in full with LOs before any other rewrites go into play. At the moment, nothing is too terribly broken to merit emergency rewrites.
Jerichi is offline  
Old 03-03-2011, 11:26 AM   #23
Mercutio
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,729
Does Superpower actually deal Fighting typed damage? The description and animé evidence point towards a no.
Mercutio is offline  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:18 PM   #24
Ethereal
Creepy Hand Person
 
Ethereal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,988
Send a message via AIM to Ethereal Send a message via MSN to Ethereal Send a message via Skype™ to Ethereal
Any chances Strength can be a repelling punch like it's in-game description?
__________________
asb|wf
TL-2 • B Grade Referee
Former Bug and Water GT
Ethereal is offline  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:21 PM   #25
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
No.
__________________


気紛れを 許して 今更なんて思わずに急かしてよ
もっと中迄入って あたしの衝動を 突き動かしてよ

asbwffb

[jerichi]
Jerichi is offline  
Closed Thread

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51 PM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.