Move Description Review - Mew Thread 2.0

[Jerichi]

If there is a problem that you've found with a move description, glossary definition or other attack-related (NOT SC RELATED) aspect of the ASB, this is the place to submit your proposals. In the past, we operated primarily under an open debate, but to keep the discussion more focused, we will be shifting to a proposal system.

If you wish to submit a move for review, please post the following:

• The current full description or rule (if applicable), highlighting any problem areas
• The issues with the move (in bullet points or short paragraphs)
• The proposed changes (please do not rewrite the moves yourself)

Once a proposal is posted, there will be a 24 hour period for someone to volunteer to write a counterproposal. Please do not pick apart the posted proposal's points - simply state your reasoning for a different change or for no change at all. We prefer that there be only one counterproposal but if a number of different ideas emerge, we will accept multiple. Once someone posts to volunteer, they will have 3 days to get their proposals in. Once all proposals are submitted or no counterproposals are made after 24 hours, we will have a 2 day discussion period of potential revisions to these proposals. Again, please do not pick them apart, but suggest alterations to further fix potential issues.

After this period, the LOs will review the proposals and respond (in as timely a manner as possible) with either a rewrite incorporating one or more proposal or a post stating why no change was made. After a change is made, there will be a cooldown period of one month in which the move may not be resubmitted for review, barring an emergency rewrite initiated by an LO.

Failure to follow these guidelines may result in banning from the thread and repeat offenses will result in infractions.

Thanks!

[Schadenfreude]

Alright, I guess I'll start us off by mentioning something relatively non-controversial and safe. I have five minutes between revising macula densa anyway.

1. Current Move Descriptions:

Electric Terrain (EL) - For considerable energy the user sends a powerful electric charge into the ground, causing it to surge with electricity for five turns. The charge energizes any Pokémon in contact with the ground, preventing them from falling asleep and also makes Electric-type moves slightly stronger. Nature Power will become Thunderbolt while this move is in effect, and Weather Ball will become Electric-typed when used by a grounded Pokémon.

Grassy Terrain (GR) - For considerable energy the user spreads invigorating Grass energy along the ground, causing grass and flowers to sprout in even the most rugged environments. This super invigorated grass will restore some (~light) health to all Pokémon touching the ground for the next five rounds, until the energy fades and also makes Grass-type moves slightly stronger. Nature Power will become Seed Bomb while this move is in effect, and Weather Ball will become Grass-typed when used by a grounded Pokémon.

Misty Terrain (FA) - For considerable energy the user spreads magical Fairy energy along the ground, causing a low pink mist to rise up. This strange mist protects any Pokémon making contact with ground from being afflicted by statuses for five rounds, as well as strengthening Fairy-type moves slightly and making Dragon-type moves slightly weaker. Nature Power will become Moonblast while this move is in effect, and Weather Ball will become Fairy-typed when used by a grounded Pokémon.

2. Current Problems:

• Because they carry a relatively sizeable energy cost for a net benefit which helps both the foe and the user, I don't think anybody ever uses Terrain moves. Like ever.
• Refs have been treating the methods of removing these in arbitrary manners.
• Personally, I've been allowing Rapid Spin and Defog to remove them, but back when Misty Terrain was its old form, newer refs were allowing a Gust to remove Electric Terrain and an Ember to clear Grassy Terrain. Won't name names, but yeah, standardising the ways of removal (if any) would be nice.

3. Potential Proposals & Suggestions:

I'm not sure how to make them more useable. Maybe dropping the energy cost slightly? Maybe the STAB users (eg Grass-types + Florges for Grassy Terrain, Electrics for Electric Terrain, Fairies for Misty Terrain) would be able to use the Terrain moves for less energy/more potent?

Also, standardising their methods of removal to Defog, Rapid Spin, and something that truly alters the arena like Fissure or Magnitude rather than EQ or Bulldoze? Magnitude/Fissure break the arena more than Bulldoze/EQ anyway, and the former two are less widely distributed than Bulldoze anyway. Also, a reason to use Magnitude suddenly arises.


--Disappears back to studying kidneys and pyelonephritis.

[Jerichi]

Okay I don't really see any need for counterproposals on this so we're just gonna open the floor to discussion.

[Mercutio]

I feel like our basic problem is that Gamefreak designed these in a really stupid way. Kind of like how there's only so much we can differentiate between shitty Grass types or the endless variations on Mirror Move and Counter. So we are probably fine to just ignore ther games.

They should benefit the user's team only, but I personally feel the energy cost is fine. They should have a standard method of destruction. They should last a set period of time.

[Connor]

Agreeing with Kush. Keep the energy cost, make them affect the users side only, they last 5 rounds. They can be dispelled early only by entry hazard removing Rapid Spin and Defog, or by another Terrain move being put down over them.

[Emi]

I personally feel they should have very few ways of being removed, maybe Rapid Spin and Defog at the most. I agree with Kush that they should only benefit the user in terms of the anti-sleep, healing, anti-status part but I do think they all need buffs. Grassy Terrain in particular is not fantastic and probably should have its healing boosted slightly. Electric Terrain could increase the paralysis chance of Electric moves slightly. Misty...um I dunno maybe Misty is good enough.

[Mercutio]

Yeah no it should be one of the two. Either it is, say, decent and it affects both sides. Or it is considerable and doesn't.

EDIT: I r gud at words

[Jerichi]

Alright I think I'm going to do decent energy across the board but keep it arena-wide. When it comes down to it, even if your opponent gets some benefits, you still get a nice healthy boost to your STAB.

So the better question is now how do we want to make them clearable? I think they should all last 5 rounds but we should probably make them so you can get rid of them earlier.

[Mercutio]

Well Rapid Spin will already do it in its magic form.

How do the games remove them?

[Emi]

Originally Posted by Jerichi

Alright I think I'm going to do decent energy across the board but keep it arena-wide. When it comes down to it, even if your opponent gets some benefits, you still get a nice healthy boost to your STAB.

So the better question is now how do we want to make them clearable? I think they should all last 5 rounds but we should probably make them so you can get rid of them earlier.

Just noting the boost to STAB is 100% worthless with Grassy Terrain because unless you are fighting a 3x weak mon they heal the difference. Plus Grasses typically shouldn't go that offensive.

Rapid Spin, maybe Defog. I'd prefer just Rapid Spin since Defog is so much better distributed and does a lot as it is.

[Crys]

Originally Posted by Mercutio

How do the games remove them?

They fade after five turns, or through another field move ie

[Mercutio]

RS, five turns and can be overwritten with weather / arena moves?

No to Defog. It is a stupid move.

[TalkSick]

Not with weather moves, they can actually be stacked with weathers, like a combination of grassy terrain and rain for a grass type.
Rapid spin sounds good, other then that maybe fire type moves can burn grassy terrain away, ground type arena move can destroy electric terrain, and poison moves can corrode fairy terrain?

[Emi]

I'd actually like the combination of weather and terrain moves, mostly because of the Grassy Terrain and weather interaction. It's possible we could make it exclusive to just Grassy Terrain if its a big issue.

[TalkSick]

I don't think there would be issue, just the weather ball will become a bit messy.
This could actually give terrain moves a niche, like grassy terrain + rain/sunny day,
or misty terrain + hail to troll the dragons.

[Mercutio]

http://veekun.com/dex/moves/weather%20ball

Weather Ball is not an issue.

[Jerichi]

Originally Posted by Emi

Just noting the boost to STAB is 100% worthless with Grassy Terrain because unless you are fighting a 3x weak mon they heal the difference. Plus Grasses typically shouldn't go that offensive.

Rapid Spin, maybe Defog. I'd prefer just Rapid Spin since Defog is so much better distributed and does a lot as it is.

Would it be terrible if we had Grassy Terrain restore energy instead of health? I honestly thought that was how we had it and am a little surprised that it restores health.

[Emi]

Restoring energy honestly would be the better option I don't know why we didn't do that in the first place. Probably because of the games but fuck the games. :p

[Jerichi]

Well we often take health restoring moves and make them restore energy anyways (Rest, Wish, etc.) so there's a mountain of precedence.

[Mercutio]

Agree.

[Jerichi]

Electric Terrain (EL) -- For decent energy the user sends a powerful electric charge into the ground, causing it to surge with electricity for five turns. The charge energizes any Pokémon in contact with the ground, preventing them from falling asleep and also makes Electric-type moves roughly two stages stronger. Nature Power will become Thunderbolt while this move is in effect, and Weather Ball will become Electric-typed when used by a grounded Pokémon.

Grassy Terrain (GR) -- For decent energy the user spreads invigorating Grass energy along the ground, causing grass and flowers to sprout in even the most rugged environments. This super invigorated grass will restore some (~light) energy to all Pokémon touching the ground for the next five rounds, until the energy fades. The energy also makes Grass-type moves two levels stronger. Nature Power will become Seed Bomb while this move is in effect, and Weather Ball will become Grass-typed when used by a grounded Pokémon.

Misty Terrain (FA) -- For decent energy the user spreads magical Fairy energy along the ground, causing a low pink mist to rise up. This strange mist protects any Pokémon making contact with ground from being afflicted by statuses for five rounds, as well as strengthening Fairy-type moves two levels and making Dragon-type moves slightly weaker. Nature Power will become Moonblast while this move is in effect, and Weather Ball will become Fairy-typed when used by a grounded Pokémon.

Rapid Spin (NO) -- The user spins round very quickly and charges at the target, dealing decent damage for decent energy. The spinning action may act to deflect attacks directed at the user, reducing damage slightly, and prevent foes from grappling or entrapping it with moves like Fire Spin or Leech Seed. Alternatively, using considerable energy, the user spins rapidly in one place and emanates an aura of energy that clears the user's side of all enemy entry hazards, such as Stealth Rock, and clears away other obstacles like Spikes and eliminates any active Terrains. If the user is caught in attacks such as Wrap or Leech Seed, it will escape if it can pull off the attack. This version of Rapid Spin deals no damage.

Okay, that should cover all the bases. I feel like weather interactions are too complicated to talk about here so we should probably just say that whichever is more recent trumps in the case of Weather Ball or find some other uncomplicated and obvious solution.

[Emi]

Yeah this works pretty well, thanks Jeri!

[Sneaze]

Honestly just make Weather Ball work on Terrain if the 'mon is grounded and work off weather if they aren't grounded. Gives more variable play. The whole idea of whichever is most recent doesn't make actual in game sense.

[Jerichi]

Well the descript pretty much reads that way so let's just say that!

[Slash]

I'm going to go ahead and say that since our Incinerate should probably have some effect on Terrains:

Incinerate (FI) -- The user fires a burst of flames, hitting the foe for good damage and using solid energy. This attack is naturally wide-spread, allowing it to burn a large area to scorch grass or plants and clear foliage, as well as hit multiple targets at once. If the target has an attached item, this move has a 50% chance to negate its effect for the remainder of the match. Mega Stones are not affected by this move.