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Old 09-04-2010, 11:35 AM   #301
Concept
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The following attacks are listed as being as strong or stronger than hyper beam (listed as "major") according to Muyo's guide to damage/energy terms:

Major:

Draco Meteor
Leaf Storm
Rage


Severe:

Body Slam
Barrage (listed as "at most a Body Slams worth of damage")


Heavy:

Blizzard
Cross Chop
Dizzy Punch
Drill Peck
Flamethrower
Hyper Fang
Skull Bash
Solarbeam
Stone Edge
Recoil from Wing Attack (ie 14 clicks above what the move itself does, at moderate)


Massive:

Giga Impact
Gravity (energy)
Head Smash
Heal Order (energy)
Healing Wish (energy)
Me First (energy)
Payback (if hit by a 3 move combo)
Poison Sting (arguably the number of quills)
Thunder (I would say it refers to size not damage, but I've seen Shadowshocker take it as damage)
Wood Hammer (energy, 11 clicks above the good damage it does)


Very Heavy:

Blast Burn
Frenzy Plant
Megahorn
Overheat
Heat Wave ("between flamethrower and fire blast")


Tremendous:

Blast Burn (energy)
Guard Swap (energy)
Power Swap (energy)
Trick Room (energy)
U-turn (energy)


Extreme:

Doom Desire
Explosion
Fire Blast (yet described as significant in the description for solar beam)
Hydro Cannon
Self Destruct
Sheer Cold
Skill Swap (energy)


I'd also note that Flail is listed as doing at most "3 body slams" worth of damage, so well over 3 hyper beams.

Some of these are arguably correct, but most are kind of ridiculous. This is also here for the benefit of anyone being reffed by SS or others who follow the "Nicabulary", as it's been put, to the letter, for quick ways to deal absurd damage. I'm currently compiling a list of moves missing energy/damage terms, which will be edited in below when complete. This may take me several weeks, there are loads of them.

The following are missing either energy, damage or both in the attack descriptions, including those listed with terms that don't appear in Muyo's scale. Attacks with damage but no energy are left out, assuming energy = damage.

Incomplete Attack Descriptions:

Spoiler: show
Acid
Acid Armour
Acupressure
Aerial Ace
Agility
Air Cutter (defined with respect to Razor Wind, which has no damage/energy terms)
Air Slash
Ancient Power
Arm Thrust (defines individual hits damage, but no indication of overall damage or how many hits.)
Aromatherapy
Astonish
Attract
Barrier
Belly Drum
Bind
Bite
Blaze Kick
Block
Bone Rush (see Arm Thrust)
Bonemerang
Brine
Bulk Up
Bullet Seed (see Arm Thrust)
Calm Mind
Camoflauge
Captivate
Charm
Clamp
Comet Punch (see Arm Thrust)
Confuse Ray
Constrict
Conversion
Conversion2
Cotton Spore
Covet
Crush Grip
Curse (both versions)
Cut
Defend Order
Defence Curl
Defog
Destiny Bond
Dig
Disable
Double Kick (see Arm Thrust)
Double Team
Double Edge
Double Slap (see Arm Thrust)
Dragon Dance
Dragon Rage
Dragonbreath
Dynamicpunch
Earthquake
Encore
Facade
Fake Tears
False Swipe
Featherdance
Fire Punch
Fire Spin (energy)
Fissure
Flame Wheel
Flatter
Focus Energy
Follow Me
Foresight
Fury Attack (see Arm Thrust)
Fury Cutter
Fury Swipes
Future Sight
Glare
Grass Knot
Grasswhistle
Growl
Growth
Guillotine
Hail
Harden
Haze
Headbutt
Heal Bell
Helping Hand
Hi Jump Kick
Howl
Hydro Pump
Hypnosis
Ice Beam
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Ingrain
Iron Defence
Jump Kick
Karate Chop
Kinesis
Leech Life
Leech Seed
Leer
Lock On
Lovely Kiss
Low Kick
Lucky Chant


Will be finished later. For those interested, the "incomplete attack descriptions" list currently encompasses 101 out of the first 240ish moves from A-L. Every single one of these currently comes down entirely to refs discretion.

You can tell I'm supposed to be revising.
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Last edited by Concept; 09-04-2010 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:37 PM   #302
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With every use of Pursuit I see, it seems to get exceedingly more broken or confusing than when I first viewed it.

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Pursuit (DK) -- The user becomes covered in a dark veil, and hits the user with a quick attack, which deals light physical damage and light dark damage. No matter what, the attack will always hit, which means that the user will always be able to follow the victim, gaining speed until it hits. The only way to shake the opponent is to hit it somehow, and hard enough to make it lose the concentration holding up the dark energy. In addition, the 'bubble' of dark energy also protects it from ALL psychic attacks, but provides no protection from anything else. The user of Pursuit will be able to go anywhere it could normally go, although once it hits the opponent, the user's shield fades, so be careful in using this move in certain situations. If the target is trying to be recalled and the attack is initiated, it will hit just as the target is turned into light and is in the process of returning to the ball. The surge of dark energy disrupts the 'pattern buffer' of the Pokéball's scan, and causes EXTREME pain for the victim, doing twice the normal damage. A hit at this point has a 20% chance of an automatic KO.
The attack always hits. But then it says the Pokemon can go anywhere the user could normally go. So if the target is flying in the sky and the user is a Diglett, does Diglett fly into the sky to strike? Then possibly fall to his death (or KO)? The wording makes this confusing. I know I've had people tell me they should never miss Pursuit because of the first line, even when the user could potentially end up someplace impossible to reach normally.

At the same time, it always hits. This has been argued as "Cannot miss." I can't see how Pursuit can be an automatic not miss. If the target creates decoys like Double Team or Substitute, then how does Pursuit let the user see through the decoy? I can understand chasing down their opponent if they run. I can understand running through a mist or haze until they find the target. If the user hits all the decoys until it hits the real user, it should count as using multiple Pursuits or higher energy expense.

The bubble of Psychic protection makes sense, but needs to be explained so people don't try to break it with newbie refs. i.e. "Do pursuit and keep your bubble up so you are immune to all three of those psychic attacks!" I've seen it. People try it.

I don't have an auto-KO when returning issue. It's just something to point out how ridiculously powerful Pursuit can be.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:43 PM   #303
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Pursuit sucks. Agreed. Is muyo alive?
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:50 PM   #304
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Pursuit enables the user to fly and reach something in the air. It will not allow the user to hit a Xatu that just Teleported inside a giant transparent aluminium cube (unless it's being used by an ethereal Banette), it will just bang the user's head against the wall. It will attempt to enter magma, but again, unless it's being used by say, a Magmar via Metronome or something, the user will lose their concentration due to being burned.

It can identify the real one in a Double Team via magic stuff the same way Aura Sphere works. Or maybe Mind Reader. Or Detect.

I think Muyo fell off the edge of the world or something.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:55 PM   #305
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The whole auto hit = never miss thing is kind of a no brainer I'd have thought.

Your point about it being over powerful is probably justified. We should probably up the energy cost; it's already fairly weak in terms of power in normal circs.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:23 PM   #306
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At the very least, Pursuit should have a time limit.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:40 PM   #307
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Pursuit should be a full body shadow punch type attack that does light damage and isn't an auto-hit. Swift isn't a goddamn auto-hit in the animoo either.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:50 PM   #308
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It makes sense to me that Pursuit should follow the target, based solely on the name, which implies it will pursue it. My opinion is that the Pokemon should burn through dark energy dependent on distance traveled; for every five feet or so, a Thundershock of dark energy or something. I think it makes sense anyway.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:48 PM   #309
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Well, when there is a bubble around the user, chasing down the target at an increasing speed being an extremely high chance of striking makes sense. It's fast and it's a chase down, making it a difficult to avoid. But when the user strikes a decoy, they should think "Okay, I hit something. Bubble goes pop now." Instead, AUTOMAGICALLY they know what is real and what is fake.
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Old 09-08-2010, 10:18 AM   #310
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I'm not sure the integrity of Double Team is really an issue considering there are a billion ways to get rid of it that are no more cumbersome than Pursuit.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:52 PM   #311
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For example, rain.

OHWAITNO.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:41 AM   #312
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Bide

Since the description explicitly says 'At the end of the round, energy, beam, fire, blah blah blah', what does that mean if someone orders 'do X then ST Agility/Reflect/Safeguard the beam? Would it fail because Bide should be the last attack used? Or would they be able to dodge, and therefore potentially break the description?

Probably redundant, but I was pondering this and my head started hurting.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:44 AM   #313
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It means people are idiots. Bide is supposed to release at the end of a round. By extension, nothing else can happen in a round.

Which is a really stupid idea.

More importantly, Bide is the ultimate "wait til they're done" attack and should be toned down. Perhaps it should stop taking on the type of attacks levied against it? Just keep it normal or XX?
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:53 AM   #314
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In this case, potential brokeness is going to trump literal interpretation of the move. Let Pokemon defend against the move but don't let the Bider perform anything else.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:57 AM   #315
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A very simple fix would be to make Bide the only move able to be used by said Pokemon that round, like Destiny Bond. And firing, should the Bide continue on to the next round, shouldn't count as a move.

My opinion anywayyy
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:05 PM   #316
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Yeah. But it shouldn't have to end the round; it leaves people open to getting raped by no real skill.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:03 PM   #317
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Something that bugs me; how come Pursuit, which isn't an auto-hit in either the anime, always hits, when things like Shadow Punch (Which, btw, was shown to always hit in the anime) and Shock Wave don't?
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:37 PM   #318
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WE'LL GET TO IT!
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:48 PM   #319
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Right, now that I'm using a Bastiodon: How exactly does Metal Burst work?

The Attack description basically says it's Counter, except that the 'payback' as it were is in Steel energy. However, it doesn't even say how much damage the 'payback' deals. It says that it only absorbs physical attacks (well, "physical blow that hits them"). In the game, the move is basically a merged CounterCoat, only that it deals 1.5x damage back instead of 2x. In the Anime, it's been shown to flat-out absorb special attacks (like Flamethrower). I know that's out of the question, but yeah.

Could I have some clarification before I order it and it fails spectacularly?
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:36 AM   #320
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Quote:
Metal Burst (ST) -- The user coats their body in steel energy which gathers the impact of the next physical blow to hit them and converts it into steel energy, which it amplifies with the steel energy in its body, sending the energy back into the target in a bright burst. The base percentage of this move working is 65%. The chance of the attack succeeding also depends on level and power, with a Giga Impact from a higher level Snorlax having a significantly lowered chance of succeeding, while a level 1 Weedle's Headbutt should almost always be able to be burst back. The user of Metal Burst still takes the full effect of the move it attempts to absorb in every case, and energy usage is proportional to the attack absorbed.
It says it's amplified, so let's just say that 1.5 is a good guess and I'll put in a word about incorporating Special attacks as well since the Anime seems to like that.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:59 AM   #321
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I think here's the right place, so...

Whirlwind seems quite silly to me. If I'm reading it right...how can a pokemon flap its wings or blow hard enough that something weighing FIVE TIMES its body weight goes across the room? Seems really stupid.

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