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Old 07-19-2009, 05:24 PM   #1
Jerichi
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Kecleon Type Energy clarifications

One MAJOR inconsistency I've found with move descriptions is the whole type in parenthesis vs. the actual type damage it does. For instance...

Dig (GD) -- The user digs underground and attacks the opponent from underneath shortly after. As the digger digs, the tunnel simply collapses, leaving nary a trace. If the user is not accustomed to being underground, then they must constantly move, as the ground will collapse on them if they stay still for too long, and certain Pokemon can't handle that.

There is nothing about Dig that suggests it would be more effective on Electric or Rock types. They pop up, but there's no signature Anime glow that signifies "OMG THIS CLEARLY DOES GROUND DAMAGE".

On the inverse side of things...

Brave Bird (XX) -- The user charges into the target recklessly at high speed, beak first, dealing a large amount of damage while incurring considerable recoil.

This is a very "Flying"-type move. If we go by the Anime (ignoring the dumb fire thing) the move does have a glow, and can be assumed to be a Flying type move that would be super-effective on Grasses and Bugs.

Then there's just dumb stuff like this:

Megahorn (XX) -- The user smashes a horn glowing with bug energy, into the target, dealing very heavy damage.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:20 PM   #2
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The parentheses indicate the type of energy used in the move, not the type of type damage it inflicts.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:22 PM   #3
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That seems totally illogical as the type energy used tends to be what actually inflicts the damage based on most of these descriptions.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:32 PM   #4
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How could something use one kind of energy and deal another kind? Other than, for example, perhaps, a Rock Type technique that forms a Rock that causes purely physical damage, but one energy can't transition into another.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
That seems totally illogical as the type energy used tends to be what actually inflicts the damage based on most of these descriptions.
Except all moves have types but not all do damage, so clearly that's not the case.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:51 PM   #6
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Except all moves have types but not all do damage, so clearly that's not the case.
But when they /do/ cause damage, it's almost exclusively of the type of energy put into it.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:58 PM   #7
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Almost all, yeah. I do have a lot of trouble looking at moves like Dizzy Punch and Dynamic Punch, almost identical in stats but different in types. I mean, a punch that inflicts confusion is a punch, why one should do double damage and the other normal damage kills a kitten inside me each time I think about it.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:03 PM   #8
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Because of the essential nature of the energy the Pokemon puts behind it. Simple.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:14 PM   #9
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Also DynamicPunch involves a small explosion and is much more powerful.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
Because of the essential nature of the energy the Pokemon puts behind it. Simple.
Simple, but inaccurate.

Energy is conserved across all systems. Thermal, kinetic, potential, etc. are all measured in Joules, but they're stored or expressed in different states.

Hence why the overly simplified nature of Pokemon battling sometimes grates me. My intuition tells me there's no difference between Normal and Flying type moves, and Solar Beam is a Normal attack that uses Grass energy to form, but game data and anime evidence suggest otherwise.

From my perspective, Psychic, Ghost, Electric, Normal, and Fighting (ki) are the only really legitimate energy types for special attacks. Everything else is physical or has a chemical/biological/physical property that allows the type effectiveness to make sense.

Flying/Normal never makes sense though.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:54 PM   #11
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See, this is the mistake you're making.

This isn't "Reality Style Battling". It's "Anime Style Battling" for a reason. Applying physics or other fantasy elements or other popular interpretations from other fandoms or RP groups.

You really seem to be over-analyzing this and clearly have a frame of reference that's not really in-tune with both the basic idea of the league and the overall popular idea of the league's workings.
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Old 07-21-2009, 12:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post

You really seem to be over-analyzing this and clearly have a frame of reference that's not really in-tune with both the basic idea of the league and the overall popular idea of the league's workings.
I already said I understand the distinction and it doesn't interfere with how I judge matches. It's just a personal reservation toward something that fundamentally makes no sense, fantasy or not.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:19 AM   #13
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I'm right up there with you on the science, but you've got to suspend disbelief in the PASBL. Otherwise, Pokemon typing is a confusing mess of illogical lies.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
One MAJOR inconsistency I've found with move descriptions is the whole type in parenthesis vs. the actual type damage it does. For instance...

Dig (GD) -- The user digs underground and attacks the opponent from underneath shortly after. As the digger digs, the tunnel simply collapses, leaving nary a trace. If the user is not accustomed to being underground, then they must constantly move, as the ground will collapse on them if they stay still for too long, and certain Pokemon can't handle that.

There is nothing about Dig that suggests it would be more effective on Electric or Rock types. They pop up, but there's no signature Anime glow that signifies "OMG THIS CLEARLY DOES GROUND DAMAGE".

On the inverse side of things...

Brave Bird (XX) -- The user charges into the target recklessly at high speed, beak first, dealing a large amount of damage while incurring considerable recoil.

This is a very "Flying"-type move. If we go by the Anime (ignoring the dumb fire thing) the move does have a glow, and can be assumed to be a Flying type move that would be super-effective on Grasses and Bugs.

Then there's just dumb stuff like this:

Megahorn (XX) -- The user smashes a horn glowing with bug energy, into the target, dealing very heavy damage.
Simple answer: We fucked up, and those moves need to be looked at. Essentially, any move with a glow or an obvious energy makeup (water gun, fireblast, etc.) should be that type. All else are XX.
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:48 PM   #15
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>Simple answer: We fucked up, and those moves need to be looked at. Essentially, any move with a glow or an obvious energy makeup (water gun, fireblast, etc.) should be that type. All else are XX.

I noticed.

I was just taking the time to point them out since they seem to have been ignored for a good...6 years now.
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:02 PM   #16
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That's Nick's fault. He stinks out loud. :points:
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerichi View Post
There is nothing about Dig that suggests it would be more effective on Electric or Rock types. They pop up, but there's no signature Anime glow that signifies "OMG THIS CLEARLY DOES GROUND DAMAGE".
While this has been mentioned, I'll bring up that in Paul's gym battle against Roark, he had Chimchar spam Dig on Onix for the super-effectiveness, pointed out by Brock's commentary in the episode.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:35 AM   #18
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That's Nick's fault. He stinks out loud. :points:
You wrote all but the D/P ones, I'm editing the old ones to be ok. The only one I screwed up on is Brave Bird.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:26 PM   #19
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Also you screwed up on Aqua Jet, Grass Knot, Head Smash, Last Resort and Pluck. Possibly Punishment too.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:28 PM   #20
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Zora's right! BONWEE!
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:57 AM   #21
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Those were all guest written by Jeri.

Damn it, Jeri!
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:53 PM   #22
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Hey, I proposed an edit to Aqua Jet. Don't pin it all on me.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:58 PM   #23
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Throwing this in here.
SPARK NEEDS TO BE CHANGED TO A PHYSICAL TACKLE.
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:41 PM   #24
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> Physical tackle

OR what it currently is, ala Psychic or Crabhammer, considering that lame Chinchou's version in the Whirl Islands.
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