UPNetwork  

Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-27-2009, 09:22 PM   #26
Shadowshocker
used First Impression
 
Shadowshocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,033
I have to admit -- a constant, expected barrage of Psychics knocking on my gym door is why my Toxicroak, cool as I think his set is, rarely factors in serious defence plans. But bringing 4x weakness Pokemon, in addition to any Pokemon at all, is a risk in itself. And one could also argue weaknesses would be what other Pokemon are for -- a team of six should ideally be able to cover for each other.
Shadowshocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:24 PM   #27
Weebos
TOO SLOW! LOL
 
Weebos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ankh-Morpork
Posts: 1,569
Send a message via AIM to Weebos Send a message via MSN to Weebos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowshocker View Post
I have to admit -- a constant, expected barrage of Psychics knocking on my gym door is why my Toxicroak, cool as I think his set is, rarely factors in serious defence plans. But bringing 4x weakness Pokemon, in addition to any Pokemon at all, is a risk in itself. And one could also argue weaknesses would be what other Pokemon are for -- a team of six should ideally be able to cover for each other.
LOL SAME HERE LOL
Weebos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:28 PM   #28
Insidious_Dreamer
Marsh Badge
 
Insidious_Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seireitei
Posts: 1,703
Send a message via AIM to Insidious_Dreamer Send a message via MSN to Insidious_Dreamer
Everyone needs to be able to deal with 4x weaknesses and the teams should help to cover that. And, it shouldn't prevent anyone from using 'mon with 4x weaknesses either.
__________________



Looks like I might be here to stay...

PASBL Trainer Level: 4 | 26-12-8 | 77 KO's | 199 TP | 0 SP
PASBL Referee (C+)
| Squad | League Table |

[.:Badges:.]
Reffing Badge
Onslaught Badge
Insidious_Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:30 PM   #29
Qball
Boulder Badge
 
Qball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Send a message via MSN to Qball
You get to send out second... you really shouldn't have a plague of a problem. Also, Toxicroak is loaded with a variety of useful Dark attacks. And Payback can be a Shinx.
Qball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:32 PM   #30
DragonDance
Soul Badge
 
DragonDance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wings country
Posts: 1,287
Send a message via MSN to DragonDance
Quote:
a team of six should ideally be able to cover for each other.
It's kinda harder to do that in Switch = KO, which is the norm these days.
__________________
Retired


Level 4: 38-14-7, 76 KO's, 212 TP, 0 SP, B- ref
DragonDance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:37 PM   #31
Balmund
'Munds of fun
 
Balmund's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: A snake's lair.
Posts: 2,369
Send a message via Skype™ to Balmund
>And one could also argue weaknesses would be what other Pokemon are for -- a team of six should ideally be able to cover for each other.

Exactly, but with movesets as vast as they are in ASB, plus no switching clauses, covering weaknesses isn't really the same as ingame.

>I think 4x weakness has come to the point when people stop using pokemon because they have a 4x weakness, personally I don't think this is a good thing, I see the possible lowering of damage as a good thing, at 3x it still does a lot more than regular super effective attacks, but not enough to completely discourage the use of the pokemon.

my thoughts exactly. while i don't yet have a clear idea on much of a pwerhouse are pokes like charizard and gyrados in asb, i feel lowering it down to 3x would balance things out for most pokes on the 4x weakness list while not making other pokes too broken.
__________________

::FB::WF::

Last edited by Balmund; 05-27-2009 at 09:41 PM.
Balmund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:37 PM   #32
Shadowshocker
used First Impression
 
Shadowshocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qball View Post
You get to send out second... you really shouldn't have a plague of a problem. Also, Toxicroak is loaded with a variety of useful Dark attacks. And Payback can be a Shinx.
Toxicroak isn't loaded with a ton of Dark energy, though, and having a supereffective move, limited more so, =/= counter. But that's drifting off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonDance View Post
It's kinda harder to do that in Switch = KO, which is the norm these days.
True. Though, to go back to the subject, while there are distinct short-term merits for lowering weaknesses, it's a bit of a slippery slope. You could viably argue for a Pokemon to be strengthened on grounds that it's weak, or nerf a stronger Pokemon on grounds that it's overpowered. Eventually, we might be potentially paralysed with such arguments.
Shadowshocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:39 PM   #33
Treepandaone
Original Gangsters
 
Treepandaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,052
While some of the Pokemon mentioned may be powerhouses, they can't do much with their respective weakness' baraging down on them each turn.

How long could a Rhyperior survive against a Bellosom?
Treepandaone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:43 PM   #34
Weebos
TOO SLOW! LOL
 
Weebos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ankh-Morpork
Posts: 1,569
Send a message via AIM to Weebos Send a message via MSN to Weebos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treepandaone View Post
While some of the Pokemon mentioned may be powerhouses, they can't do much with their respective weakness' baraging down on them each turn.

How long could a Rhyperior survive against a Bellosom?
3 rounds?
Weebos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:44 PM   #35
Treepandaone
Original Gangsters
 
Treepandaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,052
Doesn't that put everyone off getting a Rhyperior?
Treepandaone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:45 PM   #36
Qball
Boulder Badge
 
Qball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Send a message via MSN to Qball
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowshocker View Post
True. Though, to go back to the subject, while there are distinct short-term merits for lowering weaknesses, it's a bit of a slippery slope. You could viably argue for a Pokemon to be strengthened on grounds that it's weak, or nerf a stronger Pokemon on grounds that it's overpowered. Eventually, we might be potentially paralysed with such arguments.
Or a more direct example, raising up those good old x4 resistances to x3, effectively weakening the Pokemon, when that resistance could have been one of their few good traits (i.e. Lombre, which is effectively great against fellow Water types, but gets nothing against other types except Steel and Ground, which are kinda pointless to use against it anyway, and has a limited moveset).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treepandaone View Post
While some of the Pokemon mentioned may be powerhouses, they can't do much with their respective weakness' baraging down on them each turn.

How long could a Rhyperior survive against a Bellosom?
How long could a Bellossom survive against a Rhyperior? I give it about the same amount of time.
Qball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:48 PM   #37
Shadowshocker
used First Impression
 
Shadowshocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treepandaone View Post
Doesn't that put everyone off getting a Rhyperior?
Your analogy, ironically, could be argued in the other direction. Rhyperior has a considerably superior movepool to Bellossom, and Bellossom being a Grass-type already has enough problems about weaknesses and resistances dogging it. Not everyone gets a Pokemon because it's necessarily strong. *points to Camerupt*
Shadowshocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 09:57 PM   #38
Treepandaone
Original Gangsters
 
Treepandaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,052
Rhyperior only has 6 moves which are x2 super effective against Bellosom, three of which are dead and burried from the lack of a special attack.

Bellosom on the other hand has many, many more x4 weakness.

I fail to see how a Bellosom will only last 3 turns.
Treepandaone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 10:00 PM   #39
Qball
Boulder Badge
 
Qball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Send a message via MSN to Qball
If Exhibition matches were still allowed, I would be glad to show you, but unfortunately they're not.
Qball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 10:04 PM   #40
Treepandaone
Original Gangsters
 
Treepandaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,052
Which is unfortunate, but the question still remains, how will a Bellosom be KO'd in three turns.

Its superior speed keeps it from harms way of a horn drill, thats for sure.
Treepandaone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 10:06 PM   #41
Shadowshocker
used First Impression
 
Shadowshocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treepandaone View Post
Rhyperior only has 6 moves which are x2 super effective against Bellosom, three of which are dead and burried from the lack of a special attack.

Bellosom on the other hand has many, many more x4 weakness.

I fail to see how a Bellosom will only last 3 turns.
This is still working within the frames of if both Pokemon used exclusively super-effective attacks, or any techniques that would give them the biggest edge in damage. You're forgetting the possibility of finer tactics -- even how both Pokemon still need to alternate turns.

Bellossom: Double Energy ball, lol
Rhyperior: Rock Tomb in front to block out Energy Ball, and proceed with Fissure.

With the above scenario the Rhyperior user effectively puts the enemy into a less favourable condition where its supposed advantage is quite drastically nerfed. Anything Bellossom does from the bottom of a Rhyperior Fissure can be Rock Slided into nothingness. It's really a matter of how you use a Pokemon.
Shadowshocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 10:11 PM   #42
Qball
Boulder Badge
 
Qball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 110
Send a message via MSN to Qball
And even in terms of just using SE attacks, any round that Rhyperior's trainer ordered second could easily result in massive damage, due to either Fire Blast or Blizzard with another weaker SE attack, such as Poison Jab.
Qball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 10:55 PM   #43
Insidious_Dreamer
Marsh Badge
 
Insidious_Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seireitei
Posts: 1,703
Send a message via AIM to Insidious_Dreamer Send a message via MSN to Insidious_Dreamer
So, all in all, it comes down to the trainer, how they cope with the situation. Someone like me for example would pwn with a Bellossom, using some of the finer tactics to keep out of harms way. However, if the Rhyperior was owned by, say TDos, for example, I'd have a terrible situation on my hands to fend off the barrage. We really dont need to tone down the attack damage...
__________________



Looks like I might be here to stay...

PASBL Trainer Level: 4 | 26-12-8 | 77 KO's | 199 TP | 0 SP
PASBL Referee (C+)
| Squad | League Table |

[.:Badges:.]
Reffing Badge
Onslaught Badge
Insidious_Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 11:01 PM   #44
ZoraJolteon
BBCode Master
 
ZoraJolteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,029
Lets just half the effects of all weaknesses and resistances.

Now all is good. Your silly discussions may end.
__________________

Superior Christmas Banner is Superior.
Also still looking for ref with brain, although not just now due to Tyranidos running in fear.
ZoraJolteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 11:09 PM   #45
Insidious_Dreamer
Marsh Badge
 
Insidious_Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seireitei
Posts: 1,703
Send a message via AIM to Insidious_Dreamer Send a message via MSN to Insidious_Dreamer
And have 1v1 matches last for 3 months. Sure. Let's really slow down the league so everyone's happy. Wait. Why are you all leaving? Srsly, the match will end soon![/cynicism]
__________________



Looks like I might be here to stay...

PASBL Trainer Level: 4 | 26-12-8 | 77 KO's | 199 TP | 0 SP
PASBL Referee (C+)
| Squad | League Table |

[.:Badges:.]
Reffing Badge
Onslaught Badge
Insidious_Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 11:18 PM   #46
ZoraJolteon
BBCode Master
 
ZoraJolteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,029
Yes, Heven Forbid matches that can't be finished after two rounds of typespam.
__________________

Superior Christmas Banner is Superior.
Also still looking for ref with brain, although not just now due to Tyranidos running in fear.
ZoraJolteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 11:24 PM   #47
Insidious_Dreamer
Marsh Badge
 
Insidious_Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seireitei
Posts: 1,703
Send a message via AIM to Insidious_Dreamer Send a message via MSN to Insidious_Dreamer
I only know of one match that finished 2 rounds and it hasn't been repeated, iirc.
__________________



Looks like I might be here to stay...

PASBL Trainer Level: 4 | 26-12-8 | 77 KO's | 199 TP | 0 SP
PASBL Referee (C+)
| Squad | League Table |

[.:Badges:.]
Reffing Badge
Onslaught Badge
Insidious_Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 11:29 PM   #48
ZoraJolteon
BBCode Master
 
ZoraJolteon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,029
http://forums.upnetwork.net/showthread.php?t=931
http://forums.upnetwork.net/showthread.php?t=1220

Congratulations. You now know of 2.
__________________

Superior Christmas Banner is Superior.
Also still looking for ref with brain, although not just now due to Tyranidos running in fear.
ZoraJolteon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 11:30 PM   #49
Jerichi
本✚能
 
Jerichi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 蒸気の波の中
Posts: 14,502
Personally, I ref everything x1.5 and x3.

Hell, my GYM is basically a gigantic typespam fest and I would prefer it that way.

x1.5/x3 gives the person at a disadvantage a much greater chance of making a decent comeback.

Without SE of any kind 1 vs. 1 matches still last about two weeks or so on average provided everyone sticks around, so chopping off a bit of SE won't hurt much.
__________________


気紛れを 許して 今更なんて思わずに急かしてよ
もっと中迄入って あたしの衝動を 突き動かしてよ

asbwffb

[jerichi]

Last edited by Jerichi; 05-27-2009 at 11:33 PM.
Jerichi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 11:39 PM   #50
Insidious_Dreamer
Marsh Badge
 
Insidious_Dreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seireitei
Posts: 1,703
Send a message via AIM to Insidious_Dreamer Send a message via MSN to Insidious_Dreamer
If your going to do that, you may as well increase the HP a general 'mon should have. That way the damage stays as it should be
__________________



Looks like I might be here to stay...

PASBL Trainer Level: 4 | 26-12-8 | 77 KO's | 199 TP | 0 SP
PASBL Referee (C+)
| Squad | League Table |

[.:Badges:.]
Reffing Badge
Onslaught Badge
Insidious_Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   UPNetwork > Independent Forums > PASBL > Suggestions and Inquiries


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 AM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.