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Old 05-19-2009, 06:47 PM   #1
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Gallade A Competitive Team

So I've been thinking about making a team that I could eventually go to one of these fancy regionals or qualifiers of whatevers with. What I've gathered from reading the extensive guide thusfar and from Hana's moaning in Hamachi is that IV breeding sucks wangs. Now, I'm thinking of having some legendaries on my proposed team, currently I have an all right Latias, but does anybody if there is a good way of getting specific stats on legendaries?
Also I need some nice ideas for my tentative team, I'm not huge on all the banal dudes but to be competitive I suppose you have to be.
Right now I'm thinking Garchomp or Salamence, and possibly the Latias I mentioned. I'm not too knowledgeable about movesets either so I'm just wondering if anyone can give me some vague help.
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:53 PM   #2
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Graveler

If you want good IV's on legendaries, you must soft reset until you get the ones you like.

I'd advise against having both Garchomp and Salamence on your team, as that would leave you with a massive Ice weakness.

Tell me what kind of sets you're looking for (Special Sweeper/Wall etc) and I can try to help you =o
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:14 PM   #3
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If you're willing to take the risk of being caught should you get caught, then I think you should ask a friend to make some monsters for you in Pokésav. It sounds like Tyranidos has already offered, but if you need somebody with access to Pokésav then feel free to ask me for my trainer ID via private message.

Even if you want to raise the monsters 100% in-game with zero hacks, I would strongly urge you to consider downloading Pokésav and simply refrain from using it with your NDS. The program loads up all by itself and will allow you to experiment with monster creation. You won't be able to test out any battles this way, but I have found it to be a reliable and very quick-and-easy way of seeing all of the monster's stats in real time. It's 100x less tedious than using a Pokemon IV+EV calculator like MetalKid's simply because you can make changes to the actual IVs, EVs, or nature and this is reflected in real time with the click of just one last button to recalibrate your monster's max stats given the current parameters. It'll turn what would have been hours of mental math and plug-and-chugging into equations and calculators into a few short minutes for all six Pokemon. I highly recommend it to everybody. After all, just like any tool, Pokésav is only moral or immoral depending on how you use it. And I don't think it's immoral in ANYONE's book but the craziest of crazy moos if you're just using it in lieu of a calculator.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:43 PM   #4
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So you want a Double battle team, then?
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:01 AM   #5
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Garchomp might be banned from the regionals.

If you take chomp or mence, take a wall-ish steel like Metagross.

Due to it only being 4v4, walls are barely ever used.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyranidos View Post
If you want good IV's on legendaries, you must soft reset until you get the ones you like.

I'd advise against having both Garchomp and Salamence on your team, as that would leave you with a massive Ice weakness.

Tell me what kind of sets you're looking for (Special Sweeper/Wall etc) and I can try to help you =o
I'm big on Sweepers, especially special sweepers its more of my style, not too big on much else but I'm sure I'll need a wall or utility dude somewhere. I want a competitive team that I can hopefully make without much grief thats still not BANAL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vran View Post
If you're willing to take the risk of being caught should you get caught, then I think you should ask a friend to make some monsters for you in Pokésav. It sounds like Tyranidos has already offered, but if you need somebody with access to Pokésav then feel free to ask me for my trainer ID via private message.

Even if you want to raise the monsters 100% in-game with zero hacks, I would strongly urge you to consider downloading Pokésav and simply refrain from using it with your NDS. The program loads up all by itself and will allow you to experiment with monster creation. You won't be able to test out any battles this way, but I have found it to be a reliable and very quick-and-easy way of seeing all of the monster's stats in real time. It's 100x less tedious than using a Pokemon IV+EV calculator like MetalKid's simply because you can make changes to the actual IVs, EVs, or nature and this is reflected in real time with the click of just one last button to recalibrate your monster's max stats given the current parameters. It'll turn what would have been hours of mental math and plug-and-chugging into equations and calculators into a few short minutes for all six Pokemon. I highly recommend it to everybody. After all, just like any tool, Pokésav is only moral or immoral depending on how you use it. And I don't think it's immoral in ANYONE's book but the craziest of crazy moos if you're just using it in lieu of a calculator.
Personally I want to try it out legit first for the experience, I'm not too against hacks but its just cooler to be legit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muyotwo View Post
So you want a Double battle team, then?
I assume so since you claim most events are double team.



Also Treep it didnt quote you o_O, but I assumed Garchomp might be banned but I figured it was worth a shot.



Seeing as this weak school laptop wont allow me to see the smogon tiers I can't get a good team idea going, but from the pokemon I can think of I love Electivire (Dunno if hes strong enough for competitive) and I was thinking Starmie is a nice choice.





EDIT: Also the Latias I mentioned is Modest with 0-1/30-31/28-28/31/12-13/27-28
Not bad but is it useable?

Last edited by Weebos; 05-20-2009 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:29 PM   #7
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Electivire can be decent, it'll be pretty mean if you pair it with Rotom in a double battle. Electivire uses Magnet Rise, Rotom uses Discharge, Electivire uses Earthquake, Rotom uses Discharge and so on. Both moves to reasonable damage to more than one Pokemon, whilst your partner is immune (and Electivire gains a nifty speed boost). Double battles are all about the combinations.

Vran: Most Pokemon competitions have ways of telling if your game has interacted with hacking devices which results in an automatic ban (according to WPM of Pokebeach, he may just be bluffing though to warden off hackers). I'd personally go the old fashioned way and IV breed. IV's tend not to be all that important in most stats, although they can make a huge difference in the hp and speed stats. If you face a Salamence with your Salamence, the fact you have a single IV smaller could be the deciding factor between a win or loss. Most EV spreads are centralised around Pokemon having "perfect" IVs, and "just enough" EVs to outrun a certain threat with maximum IVs. Personally, I go for about 25-31 in two or three stats for my Pokemon (Defences and HP for walls, chosen offense and speed for sweepers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treepandaone View Post
Garchomp might be banned from the regionals.

If you take chomp or mence, take a wall-ish steel like Metagross.

Due to it only being 4v4, walls are barely ever used.
Dusknoir, Metagross, Snorlax, Bronzong etc. are all fairly common in regionals.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empoleon dynamite View Post
Vran: Most Pokemon competitions have ways of telling if your game has interacted with hacking devices which results in an automatic ban (according to WPM of Pokebeach, he may just be bluffing though to warden off hackers).
Pokésav can be used to do at least these two things to Pokémon: create new ones and edit old ones. Assuming there is legitimacy-check data inside of each Pokemon which Pokésav cannot read, this would be ill-advised if you wish to compete in Nintendo tournaments. However, that is a big assumption. Furthermore, there is every indication that whatever legitimacy-check data a Pokémon's data file might contain, it does not communicate with legitimately-variable entities such as PP, moves, or held items.

All Nintendo's legitimacy programs do to check if your monsters are legitimate is look for two things:
1. Does your hidden legitimacy-check data match up?
2. Does the rest of your data match up to what would be expected?

For an example of the second one, let's say you have a Leafeon with Wish and it says you met him in the manor garden south of Hearthome. This wouldn't send up a red flag as the program monitored the legitimacy-check data, but it would send up a red flag as it scanned the file and recorded that your team has an Eevee with an egg move but the Eevee was caught in the wild.

Are you with me? What this means is that unless you're a dummy then the only way Nintendo could catch you is No.1, but No.1 was a big assumption, I said. And now I'll explain why.

If you hatch the monster in-game (legitimately) and then make changes to its moves, PP, held item, and EVs, there is no reason to believe that this would send up the red flag during part No.1 of the scan. Those are variable entries which could only send up red flags during part No.2 if you did something retarded like give yourself 99 PP for a move with a max PP of 8. There is one caveat, and that's the IVs. Changing the IVs and not changing the PID with them will result in detection, guaranteed. Changing the IVs and changing the PID with them may or may not result in detection, but is not advised. The best thing to do is to edit the IVs before hatching the egg. This way, when the Pokémon hatches (and presumably most of the hidden legitimacy-check data is written, seeing as so much of the other bits of data are also postponed until after hatching), it will already have the IVs you assigned to it, it will build legitimacy-check data around these and around its proper PID, and the only changes you will be making from there on out are to variable fields -- fields which have nothing to do with legitimacy-check data because, by their nature, they are variable while the hash sums are static!

Is this guaranteed? No, because I've not seen anyone say it's guaranteed so how could I?
Have I tested this with Nintendo? No.
Do I think there's super-secret hidden legitimacy-check data inside each and every Pokémon? Doubtful. There's probably one to two strings of integers the hackers have yet to identify as being separate from the garbage data inside the files, but it doesn't matter because ...
Do I think this data is written at the time of hatching? Yes. It would be a really easy fix for Nintendo to write the data at the moment the egg is first created, but for whatever reason they don't appear to do this, probably because it has something to do with making certain things like gender and ability variable at the time of hatching instead of predetermined at the time the egg is first received.

I've made my own fair share of assumptions, but truth be told, I have no reason to believe that Nintendo's program is capable of detecting hacks when the most anal-retentive of Pokemon hackers themselves have written hack-detection software that can't tell apart most Pokésav hatchlings from legitimate Pokémon.

Obviously, you're S.O.L. as far as legendaries and other non-hatching Pokémon are concerned, but this really shouldn't be an issue anyway: Pokésav has provided legitimate copies of the monsters with good personalities and IVs. Obviously you'd have to be a fool to just use these without making any edits, but that's why it's a good thing none of us is a fool. You edit the IVs (and edit the PID to match!) and take your chances with the voodoo witch doctor magic of Nintendo's hack detectors.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:02 PM   #9
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By the way, here's a really simple idea that anyone can do. All it takes is you, Pokésav, and a friend or sibling who has a copy of the game and a Nintendo DS of their own.

Step 1. You both get in line. Your little brother gets in line first, and you get in line 5 to 6 places behind him.

Step 2. You both register your Pokémon with the officials. I would do this first if I was Nintendo, because it would make it more difficult to switch monsters in response to what I'm going to say next.

Step 3. Your little brother, 5 to 6 people ahead of you, hands over his DS and the Nintendo rep verifies the team's authenticity.

Step 4. Your little brother's team is different from yours, but you made his in Pokésav just like you made your own. So if he gets caught, then you know your team would get caught too.

Step 5. Your little brother gets caught. He doesn't waste time, scampers off, and gives you a furtive "good luck, bro!" look. Because your little brother hates Pokémon and "thinks it's for fags," but he loves his big brudder. Awwwwwwwwwwww.

Step 6. While the 5 to 6 people in front of you move forward through the line getting their teams verified by the Nintendo rep for their legitimacy, you quickly switch out your team (6 Pokésav-edited monsters) for your backup team (6 100% legitimate monsters). You need all 6 monsters on one team to be the same as the 6 monsters on the reserve team. Same thing for their moves and held items. You can take your chances with IVs, PIDs, and EVs: it's up to you how much you think they recorded while you were in line.

Step 7. If people ask what you're doing, just say you're correcting the order of your team. If they complain, apologize and say "I'll put it back the way it was." Make sure that the reserve team is in the same order as your hacked team was.

Step 8. If time permits, and if you're super-paranoid, you could always delete the hacked Pokémon while in line. This isn't an issue if you have Pokésav because you can always re-import your save file with those monsters later, or you can reimport their .pkm files to your PC or to open slots on your team depending on how you saved them. Not a big deal, honestly.

Step 9. Now it's your turn with the legitimacy check guy! Congrats, you made it.


Skip Steps 5 through 8 if your little brother makes it through the verification process. If your little brother hates Pokemon, though, that's when you'll have to figure out how to convince him to battle at least for one round in the tournament. LOL

Btw, replace "6" with "4" if you're doing a 4 vs 4 doubles battle.
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:24 PM   #10
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Graveler

>I'm big on Sweepers, especially special sweepers its more of my style, not too big on much else but I'm sure I'll need a wall or utility dude somewhere. I want a competitive team that I can hopefully make without much grief thats still not BANAL.

Salamence makes great as a Mix Sweeper, you might want to try out that set =o

>Seeing as this weak school laptop wont allow me to see the smogon tiers I can't get a good team idea going, but from the pokemon I can think of I love Electivire (Dunno if hes strong enough for competitive) and I was thinking Starmie is a nice choice.

Electivire can be really good when paired up with Gyarados, and even Starmie works. The set I used for Electivire that worked was:

[email protected] Belt
Motor Drive
Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Ice Punch
-Cross Chop
-Earthquake
-Thunder punch

>Also the Latias I mentioned is Modest with 0-1/30-31/28-28/31/12-13/27-28
Not bad but is it useable?

You could go for the Offensive set:

[email protected] Orb
Levitate
Modest
4 HP/252 Sp Atk/252 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Dragon Pulse
-Surf
-Recover

Though, Latias does have a better Sp Def stat.
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:57 PM   #11
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Using sav and AR misses out a line of coding which is easily visable for a finals.

Here is an example of a finals, you may want to take a look and at the related videos.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:13 PM   #12
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Woooooooooooooooooooooooow, learn something new every day.

Apparently you can use Heart Scales to get a Level 1 Smeargle back its original Sketch and in this manner legitimately obtain such a Smeargle. I thought I had it figured out that the guy was a cheater, but it looks like I was wrong.

Btw, where's the proof of your claim? I was hoping to see it in that or in the related videos, but it was nowhere to be found.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:20 PM   #13
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Vran fails once again!

A Lv.1 Smeargle that does not know Sketch anymore as a result of sketching a move can be retaught Sketch from the move relearner.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:21 PM   #14
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Treep, are you being sarcastic? Your video showed a Level 1 Smeargle with multiple moves -- Fake Out, Endeavor, and Dark Void -- and yet Smeargle learns no moves when hatched from eggs.

My point is, if the tourney people didn't flag this guy who allegedly didn't cheat and got 2nd place at Seattle ... then I think it's safe to say that intelligent use of Pokésav still can't be caught.

Am I wrong? Does Smeargle hatch with more than one Sketch? I'm pretty sure I'm right. Smeargle has no egg moves and should only hatch with one Sketch at Level 1.

In other words, this guy used hacking software to get that Smeargle and Nintendo didn't catch him. Lest we forget, Seattle, WA is right in the backyard of Nintendo's American base of operations, Redmond. If any competition would have had the real deal Nintendo staffers there, this one would have been it.

To be honest, this is pretty embarrassing for Nintendo if I am right. Because I noticed the cheat just by eyeballing it and not even looking at the creature's actual code. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
1. Hatch Smeargle with Sketch
2. Get into a double battle with a Pokemon who knows a move you want Smeargle to learn
3. Ensure Smeargle lives long enough to use Sketch, KO if in a game battle so it doesn't gain exp and you want it to be level 1 for the purposes of FEAR cheesing
4. Go to move relearner, spend a heart scale to relearn sketch
5. Repeat as necessary

Quote:
Garchomp might be banned from the regionals.

If you take chomp or mence, take a wall-ish steel like Metagross.

Due to it only being 4v4, walls are barely ever used.
Garchomp isn't banned. "Walls" aren't common in the traditional sense in doubles because there's no point: a Blissey that can stop an Agility-passed Alakazam's sweep in singles cannot do shit to a Rain Dance whoring Surf spamming team in doubles.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:22 PM   #15
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Zora fails once again. You replied after my third edit to this post. Way too late.

And Blastoise gave a more thoughtful response but was unfortunately late to the party as well. Oh well. Thanks anyway, Blastoise. By the time you guys said all this, I'd already discovered it by reading the Youtube comments for Treep's video.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:26 PM   #16
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Garchomp isn't banned. "Walls" aren't common in the traditional sense in doubles because there's no point: a Blissey that can stop an Agility-passed Alakazam's sweep in singles cannot do shit to a Rain Dance whoring Surf spamming team in doubles.
Do you think this is why Nintendo's tournaments are always Doubles? Because they want to give the little kids who have pure Aggro on their teams some chance of making it to at least the quarterfinals before the one to two Smogon people in the crowd clean up house? I'd never thought of it this way before, but it makes perfect sense: little kids don't like walls, spikes, or hazing but they don't really have to worry about it too much if they can have two water-type Pokémon use Water-type attacks, one physical and one special. super-charged by Rain Dance.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Do you think this is why Nintendo's tournaments are always Doubles? Because they want to give the little kids who have pure Aggro on their teams some chance of making it to at least the quarterfinals before the one to two Smogon people in the crowd clean up house? I'd never thought of it this way before, but it makes perfect sense: little kids don't like walls, spikes, or hazing but they don't really have to worry about it too much if they can have two water-type Pokémon use Water-type attacks, one physical and one special. super-charged by Rain Dance.
Maybe, but I think the more obvious answer is that 4vs4 double battles take a lot less time to finish than 6vs6 singles, which is probably important if you're hosting a 100-person tournament.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:33 PM   #18
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Good call.
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:50 AM   #19
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Okay, so I'm thinking about using Slaking since it was such a powerhouse in 3rd gen.
Since this is a double battle should I think about Worry Seed, Skill Swap, or drop that "combo" altogether?
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:52 AM   #20
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IIRC, you can't use Worry Seed etc on Slaking.....right?
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:05 PM   #21
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In a double battle.

If you can afford a slot for Gastro Acid, that works too.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:08 PM   #22
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Though Skill Swap is cooler.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:27 PM   #23
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trufax

Also way to thread necromance, Rangeet.
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:40 PM   #24
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Though Skill Swap is cooler.
Except your skill-swapper pretty much becomes useless afterwards. Unless you can survive to re-swap it to a dangerous foe.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:52 PM   #25
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Necromancy is an unholy act.
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